Dealing with diffucult SIL

[hardtolove]

 Hello everyone,

I'm in need of some advice and help obviously... .I usually do my best to deal with my issues on my own but this is bigger than my abilities at the moment.

My husband's sister and I have been close friends for over twenty years, her general personality is witty, generous and giving of her time. When I first began dating my husband (her brother) I already had two young boys 5 1/2 and 4 from a previous marriage.  I actually knew her first from 6 years before when she and I briefly worked together with another mutual friend.

So when I began dating her brother, hanging out with his family was very easy because I already knew her and got along with her, I wouldn't say we were friends at first because I'm shy and hold back until I feel comfortable enough to call a person a true friend, not just someone I hang out with.

So for the first 4 years things went smoothly, I can't honestly remember her temper flaring to any extent that would have concerned me. I had a daughter with her brother by then, and SIL doted on her because she couldn't get pregnant, this baby was her first niece. The first time anything came up that concerned me was when my 4th child was 5 months old, my husband and I were married, and I considered my SIL like my own sister by then, I felt we were very close. Life was great.

One day my SIL offered to babysit all 4 kids aged 9 down to 5 months, my oldest son has ADD and could be a bit of a handful, but he was a sweet, honest child who listened well if told firmly not to do something.

It was only for a couple of hours, and when my husband and I came to pick them up I asked my SIL how things went and she said fine, she seemed fine as we chatted and she put away dishes.

But when I turned to my oldest son and asked what they had for dinner he said hot dogs, but he didn't finish it, I asked why and he quietly(almost as if he were scared to say) said because they were boiled.

At that point my SIL slammed the cupboard door and began Screaming, "what was he talking about they were BURNT, and why would he lie like that?". It seriously happened that quick, I tried to explain to her that my son said BOILED, but it was if she didn't hear me! She railed on for almost a minute while my son looked horrified and I tried to get her to hear me. At this point my husband came into the house and asked what happened, I told him quickly and we gathered up the kids and things all the while his sister was still going off.

We got home and of course my husband and I talked about this, he knew his sister was wrong. I was shaking and stunned that this person I thought I knew could turn like that and blast a CHILD over a HOT DOG, and she was wrong in WHY she was mad. I figured I would let a day pass and speak to her when I was cooled down, we were family and she was my friend, so I figured she would apologize and we could move on. Although my eyes were opened that day, and while I may forgive I would never forget.

From here it went downhill, not only did she not apologize, she then began to berate my son and tell me all the "terrible" things he did while at her house, how he wouldn't listen and got on the riding lawn mower after being told not to, (he didn't try to turn it on). All in emails, when I would try to explain that I felt her yelling at my son was not cool (or accepted) and over a mistake no less, she still refused to see HER mistake and the reason I was so upset. We didn't speak for 5 months after I gave up trying to talk with her. She never once mentioned her hearing my son wrong, I knew then there was something more going on, just not what.

I'm the one who gave in for my husband's and children's sake, we slowly began to talk again, but she never said sorry for her part.  I have been on eggshells with her ever since, I've seen flashes of her temper, sometimes towards me, if I "disagree" with her in a conversation, or she thinks I mean something negative when I know my intentions were not. I'm always "defending or explaining" my meanings. Or not having a opinion because I know how she can be. I've learned how to navigate the ocean to keep things calm.

I've seen her go off on strangers for a perceived slight, screaming and yelling, when I was watching and didn't see what she said happened. She's done the same to my sister, who is also her friend and loves her dearly. When she is sweet, she is great, just don't question or piss her off... .

I've worked with her for the past 2 years part time cleaning, and the majority of the time is fine, but she has a tendency to nit pick and tell me how to clean things. I'm 50, I think I can dust and vacuum without a tutorial on it by now. I hold my tongue unless she shows anger over something weird or trivial, I stand up for myself and she sometimes backs down. I know she's not happy to, I can feel it, after 20 years you know... .Our arguments have never been anything that would break up our friendship, it is tiring always wondering if you'll say the wrong thing "this time".

Well things blew up last week and we're once again not talking and she's deleted me from facebook.

On the way back from a job that another friend of hers, not mine, helped us with, I got a call from my 18 year old daughter. She was clearly very upset and saying she needed to go to the police station (she doesn't drive). I asked her why, what happened, and she finally told me she had been raped, but would say no more. I told her I would be home in about 15 mins, hung up in complete shock and anger, not knowing the details.

My SIL heard the tone and my side of the convo, but not what happened, so she understandably asked what was going on. I said I didn't want to talk about it right now, with P in the car I wasn't about to begin that conversation. She asked again and this time I snapped and yelled I didn't want to talk about it! I've never done that to her before, ever.

She got quiet for a couple of minutes, at which time I began to apologize for snapping at her, and to P also.

She asked if I could say if anyone was dead or hurt and I said no, but it's bad. I could hear the tone beginning in her voice and I tensed up. She began to chastise me on how I could have said "something" at least to calm her down, as her heart was beating in her chest, and she has had so much bad stuff happen in her life (mom died when she was 7, two brothers have died)... .I couldn't take it at that point, I've just heard one of the worst things I could hear about my daughter and she's beginning to tell me I'm wrong to not spill it, even after I said sorry for yelling... so I yelled again, She was RAPED. Instead of shutting her up the real storm began. My friend of 20 years and SIL called me a C*nt, and selfish, and was screaming this at the top of her lungs literally. This time I went toe to toe with her, defending myself with her staying on this line of thought, how selfish I was, what a terrible person I was... .

All while she's driving on the highway, poor P in the front seat was trying to calm her down, I would stop yelling at some points and just talk, but she never stopped SCREAMING at me. Even telling P to F*ck off at one point when she tried again to stop my SIL from her crazy driving and yelling. By the time we made it off the highway, alive thank God, I was done and said so.

She never stopped for 15 mins., when we got to our street (we live 3 blocks from each other) I told her to let me out even before she got to my house. She screeched to a stop and I got out and walked home. Knowing the whole time that this time she went way too far and I wasn't  going to be able to forgive her unless she literally got on her knees and told me she was sorry.  I know after 20 years, and my first bad experience with her, that I will be waiting til hell freezes over, and she will go around and tell HER side of why we aren't talking and I'm a C*nt. I'm done.

My issues are my kids, my husband, Father in Law, and her husband, all of who had nothing to do with this and now will have to deal with us not talking. Over what I considered a very rude and over the line demand from her to talk after I told her I didn't want to. I would have respected her wishes if it had been the other way around. For her to then turn it personal and call me terrible names on top of it all, while I'm freaking about what my daughter just told me... .how can she think she's even remotely right? My husband supports me, knows his sister has issues, her husband... .is in the same boat as I was, he lives with her and I've heard how she berates him while we're on the phone, it's uncomfortable and wrong, so I know he won't speak against her... . in fact he defends her actions sometimes... .

Am I wrong to feel I never want to try to mend this, because I don't.

Sorry this was so long.

[Kwamina]

Hi hardtolove

You are dealing with a lot right now. It's horrible what happened to your daughter. Have you been able to talk to her? How is your daughter doing now and is she getting any help to try and deal with what happened to her?

The whole situation with your SIL is difficult and quite unpleasant indeed. My advice right now since there is so much going on, would be to focus on your daughter and the crisis she is going through. When it comes to your SIL there are certain communication techniques that might help, but I think the most important thing right now is to set and enforce boundaries to protect your well-being and that of your children.

We have some information here that you might find helpful:

Getting Our Values and Boundaries in Order

Examples of boundaries

The way your SIL treated your son was very hurtful, it could very well be that she was projecting her own insecurities and inner negativity and turmoil onto him. You've known her for a long time. Has your husband ever discussed how his sister was when they were growing up? Did she ever behave in such a problematic manner before when they were younger?

[Turkish]

 hardtolove,

What a horrible thing that was done to your daughter! Is she ok? It's completely understandable that you would be very angry when you were invalidated in the middle of a crisis. And the hot dog incident... .unacceptable. If she felt like that, fine, but it doesn't excuse her over the top reaction. I remember my ex slamming the fridge door so hard that the door cintemts fell out and made a mess on the floor... .because our then 1 yo son fell asleep on my shoulder before dinner and his bath time. Whatever internal script she had in her he as was violated, triggering the outburst.

For an emotionally unstable person, these triggers can come out of nowhere. We can certainly try validation, and it can work, but with violent events, sometimes the safer thing is to withdraw.   It sounds like she is surrounded by enablers. Do what you need to protect yourself. Asserting boundaries and being consistent, is key.

[hardtolove]

Hi Kwamina, thank you for responding.

My daughter is doing well considering, after getting home that day and heading to the police station, we talked in the car and the details came out. We are taking things a bit at a time, and waiting on the police to get back with us on what happens next. There are other pressing issues health wise with my daughter at this time and counseling is in the works also.

It turns out she had been raped almost two months before, the reason she finally decided to go to the police was two fold. Her boyfriend broke up with her over his belief that she had some sort of relationship with her rapist. Her rapist was a "friend" for a while, one that wanted more than friendship, yet she was clear to him that she wanted only friendship. During a breakup with her boyfriend at the time of the rape her "friend" invited her over to hang out and talk and things took a turn for the worst. She was ashamed and too scared to tell anyone. She actually got pregnant from this, but then had a miscarriage a month ago (I hate to say thank goodness... .but really let's just heap more on her plate... ) I found out about this that day also.

A month or so later a girlfriend of hers began talking to this guy and my daughter tried to stop it without telling the reasons why, their friendship broke up over it. He then was very abusive physically and sexually with her friend. Somehow my daughter and her friend began talking again, and the fact that he forced himself on her friend also, combined with the fact her boyfriend didn't believe her, gave her the courage to tell us and the police.

I don't want to look as if I'm just focusing on my situation with my SIL and not my daughter, I'm not.

But it's almost as if my SIL needs to have the focus on her. My daughter's rape now has been taken over by her anger at me, "how terribly I treated her".  I will admit that I'm needing to understand why she chose this time to let loose with both guns at me... . 

As for talking to my husband about his sister and her past behavior we have had some conversations, but he's never really mentioned situations in detail like I've experienced with her. To be honest it's as if we all are (were, speaking only for myself) in denial about the severity of her issues because my SIL has kept herself in check for the most part. And he actually gets uncomfortable if I want to talk about things for too long and when it gets too painful. I deal with some anger issues with him sometimes also, but he can be 'reached and reasoned with". I don't think he wants to believe his sister may have an actual mental illness, although he admits she has 'issues'. Close friends that have known her since she was young make fun of her fiery temper. The thing is they don't deal with her as much as I do, especially the last 2 years since we've worked together.

This thought popped into my head as I was reading the board to get some insight and ideas. My SIL tends to have the explosive type blow ups during times of stress. And frankly her life is full of it the last 5 years. Her husband had leukemia 5 years back (so far he's clear and doing well), she has MULTIPLE pets, 15 parrots, 4 dogs and a cat. The only pet not given to her by what I would consider a hoarder "friend" is her oldest dog and maybe 3 of her 15 parrots (at one time she had 17). She doesn't know how to say no to people, and this person slowly filled her house and life up with her own cat and three of her little dogs, and the birds she said were from her "rescue". The reason I don't believe she ran a real rescue is because she runs through pets and gets new ones constantly since I've met her.

When she moved out of state she asked my SIL to watch her three little dogs until she got back from looking for a place, but once back she emailed and said she needed to find homes for them because the place she and her husband found only allowed a certain amount, she has 2 other little dogs. Somehow my SIL just ended up keeping them. She actually tried to have my SIL take even more of her birds... .It was crazy!

Still my SIL takes impeccable care (slightly over the top care actually) of all of her pets since she doesn't have kids. It's a full time job on top her work outside of the house. She can be a tyrant about her pets, especially the birds, even putting them over her husband, guest have to be quiet when the birds go to sleep... .

Which leads me to my thoughts, I quit an unimportant part time job to begin working with my SIL to help her out because she was becoming overwhelmed by it all. For the past 2 years all I heard about on our car rides is how stressful her life is, I sit and she talks. She blames her friend for all the animals she pawned off on her (She agreed to them though), yet on face book it's all hugs and kisses when she interacts with her.

She blames family that comes to visit from out of town a couple of times a year, her husband's grown children coming to see their dad. Understandable at times but it's non stop.

She hates her MIL, she lived with them for a few years after her FIL passed, until her MIL overstepped too many of SIL's rules (she's a piece of work herself... .which may explain why SIL's hubby is so co-dependent), she was shipped off to Florida to live with her other son and DIL. Who by the way they are fighting with also... .So many of SIL's in-laws she has issues with or gets into arguments with.

She makes vet appointments, dog grooming appointments, Bird vet appointments with an avian vet 45 mins. from us, all on days we work. Hair appointments, her own doctor appointments. Sometimes this can't be helped, vet and doctor, but we don't work 3 days out of the work week some weeks and have weekends off... .I make my appointments on my days off. She's constantly late getting off to work because she stays up late on facebook ( I rarely get on there myself so I can't understand the addiction). So on days she makes appointments she's extra stressed and I have to really watch how I deal with her. We have to work like maniacs to get done on time, she's extra critical at these times...

My point is, she makes her own stress at times and then takes it out on others, drags them into her crazy world. I feel for her on the one hand, which is why I helped her. Yet it began to dawn on me how these situations could be avoided if she planned some things a bit differently. And then she goes out of her way (maybe out of guilt for being difficult) to compensate me, sometimes over compensating, buying me gifts like a new canister vac at the same time she got one and things along this nature. I feel very uncomfortable for accepting, yet how rude would I look if I refused.

But I wonder if she has this need to be "felt sorry for", or something, on a subconscious level? That day we fought a couple of things happened, I had the nerve to stand up to her in a strong manner (not correct, but I was stressed beyond belief in the space of 5 mins) and my daughter's news trumped anything she has going on in her life, she won't be the center of attention now?

She has texted my daughter once to ask how she's doing, and only after my daughter reached out to her to say I was just trying to keep her business private and she shouldn't be mad at me. My SIL never responded to that part. Nothing since asking how she's doing, yet her argument was all about how this was "HER niece and she had the right to know what happened, how selfish I was to keep her in the dark and scare her like that, her heart was beating out of her chest"

What about MY heart, MY baby, who grew in my body and was violated? She turned this into ALL about her, and anyone she tells will hear about how terribly I acted towards her... Not her actions of course.

Anyway, I'm possibly reaching with those last thoughts about her need for attention, but really I'm starting to realize how "All about her, and how stressed she is" life has been these last 2 years. I guess I just needed to vent to someone, I can't really to my husband, even if he says he understands. I'm hurt and worried for my daughter first and foremost, yet now I have my SIL to deal with, somehow she inserted herself into this also... .and has made it even worse.

I have done my research both for my daughter and trying to understand my SIL's behavior, knowledge is power. For sure I've decided that I won't be contacting her at all anytime soon so I can focus on my daughter and not our fight. I just needed to get this out because it's been at the back of my mind despite my need to help my daughter. It shouldn't have happened, if she cared she would be right here with me trying to find out what to do for my daughter.

Thanks for listening and taking the time out to reply, I've read the links and will re-read them and others as I need to, to help me figure out how to deal with SIL in a calm manner if she tries to contact me. I know confronting her with even some of what I've written here would only make it worse.

[hardtolove]

Thank you Turkish,  I appreciate hearing what you said, I feel a sense of relief knowing I'm not crazy for how I felt I these situations. I wrote in the post above explaining how my daughter is doing, she's okay for now. Being very strong, I think she's relieved to get it out now.

Turns out P, my SIL's friend, told SIL's husband that "it seemed like all I had to do was tell her no one was hurt or dead". SIL told her husband I refused to tell her anything, which is untrue, I told her no one was hurt or dead.

P won't go against her, she saw what happens when you do... .yes SIL has her enablers. I wouldn't lie about something like that. And I've never acted like that before in twenty years around either of them.  It happened as I said.  I texted my BIL to tell him to keep the money from the job we did the day before. And I told him that despite what had happened I still cared for them both, he defended SIL and told me the above information, until I went into detail through repeated emails to explain my side, and to say no matter who was "wrong" the focus should have been on my daughter, not how terrible I was... .basically. I left it at that and I haven't spoken to or texted him since. He can believe what he will or not. He should know me by now, and his wife... .

Thank you again, I do feel better getting this out.

[Kwamina]

Hi again hardtolove,

Your daughter has been through some very traumatic experiences. The rape and after that getting pregnant by the rapist and then the miscarriage. Dealing with this in silence without telling anyone must have been very tough for her. I hope her health issues get properly attended to and that she indeed gets some good counseling to help her deal with these traumatic experiences.

Your thoughts about your SIL actually make perfect sense to me. Under the assumption that she indeed has BPD, certain behavioral patterns you describe could very well be related to stress and the need for attention. It is true that many people with BPD find it very hard to deal with stress and to alleviate the negative feelings they experience, they  then might take out their frustrations onto someone else. This behavior is then a result of that person's inability to deal with stress in a more constructive manner.

Many people with BPD are also very sensitive to other people's behavior and reactions to them. As a result they might perceive things differently than a non-disordered person would and react in a manner that seems totally inappropriate and disproportionate given what happened.

It's also so that a lot of people with BPD find themselves struggling with their sense of self. Unfortunately this sometimes means the person needs constant external validation to feel like they are worthy, to feel like they have a self. The need for attention could be a manifestation of your SIL's need for approval from others to bolster her sense of self.

These are just some reflections from me on your thoughts about your SIL. It really does help having a clear understanding of the disorder so you know what you are dealing with. No matter the underlying reasons for her behavior though, setting and enforcing boundaries with her is essential. I am glad getting your story out here has made you feel better. You are dealing with a lot right now.

Take care and welcome to our online family

[hardtolove]

Thank you Kwamina,

I have found some peace already coming here, you and others that take the time out, time and time again, to talk to us newbies and give is insight and advice, are pretty incredible.

And you all have your own things to deal with also, as I read more posts on here I see the extent that this illness can cause such pain and wounds... .and even with all my family is going through there are still others with even more hurt and pain.    to you all for this place of peace and information for troubled souls.

My daughter will make it through, she even understands her aunt's issues for the most part. She knows she can talk to me about anything, even if she doesn't always come to me right away about troubles in her life, she does come to me eventually.

I'm not surprised she didn't want to talk about the rape at that time, I did tell her in a gentle way that she should not ever feel too scared to tell me things like this. I have always worried my kids would come across some huge life issues like this and not have anywhere to turn, yet I tell them I'm here.

I actually did know about her pregnancy before that day, just not who's baby it was, she let me believe it was her boyfriend's. So I was there for her emotionally at this time, yet she still had to carry the dark secret about the father, once again the miscarriage may have been at least one blessing. I hate saying that, but a baby at this time in her life, and her boyfriend believing it was his... .her having to keep that secret my have broken her.

I will probably do more reading than posting, I have a lot to catch up on understanding wise. I want to get past my anger to get to a point of understanding. I flip flop actually between wanting to talk with my SIL and work this out, and not talking at all, I know that's normal too. It's very hard, you don't stop loving a person, even an abusive one. I know that my sticking around and trying for all of these years comes from my own co-dependent issues and my honest feelings for her.  

It's funny what starts to surface the more you learn.

My own issues and I how I deal with conflict and stress that stem from my past and upbringing, how it plays a part in why I put up with certain things and now need to learn how to put boundaries in place for my own sanity.

I don't know what issue my SIL has for sure, but BPD fits the bill more so than others, so with that thought this is where I'll stay, the light bulbs, bells and whistles went crazy the more and more I learn.

Thank you again,  and peace to you... .