Are you a mentor or working to become one?

[Skip]

We haven't talked about this for a while, but how does bpdfamily work?  And when does it fail?

Support Group Objectives Collectively our goal is to help each other process breakups, get to a healthy place, and do it at a higher level of emotional intelligence than we had in the relationship. This is not a stereotype, vent, and bash community. Its a place to be heard and get intelligent conversation on a emotional would we struggle with.

The bpdfamily Model This is a clinical psychology support group (not and urban legend support group).  We depend on more experienced members mentoring newer members in the broken relationship recovery process.  Mentors bring knowledge, centering, perspective, hope, and an understanding of the many differences and nuances in recovery. Any one who has been here a while knows that newbies get a wide berth to experience and release pain, while senior members are held to a higher standard of knowledge, emotional EQ.

Failure Failure happens when more than 20-30% of members are locked in co-rumination and get caught up in the 10 forms of twisted thinking and drama making that are generally associated with depression.  This is characterized by:

1. All-or-nothing thinking

2. Overgeneralization

3. Mental Filter

4. Discounting the positive

5. Jumping to conclusions

6. Magnification

7. Emotional Reasoning

8. "Should" statements

9. Labeling

10. Personalization and Blame

How are we doing as a group? What do we do well?  Where are we weak?

Where do you see yourself in the mentoring continuum (see poll).

[fromheeltoheal]

When considering a mentor I think of AA.  Folks who have quit drinking and have gotten their lives together share their experience, strength and hope with folks who just quit or are trying to.  Experience, strength and hope, that's what we need when we get here, a strong shoulder to cry on, someone to bounce ideas off, someone to educate us, someone to show us the way out and offer proof it's possible, which inspires hope.  So as mentors what experience, strength and hope can we share today?  I find it most needed on the Leaving board, of course I left her so those are my peeps, but what we need when these relationships end is validation, empathy and compassion, first, and then a nudge away from the past and towards the future.  So what do we need to contribute?  A reasonable understanding of the disorder, a little emotional balance, and thoughtful readings of an OP's post.  Not much more than that, just a focus shift really.  How can we contribute today?

[enlighten me]

Hi skip

Ive been on here a while and have swung with my thinking over time.We all start with the what hell has happened thought. Over time we come to understand more and our perceptions change. Im at a point now where I undestand a lot about BPD behaviour and also my behaviour. I continue to come here not out of need like In the begining but more out of curiosity. As the saying goes every days a school day and theres always something new to learn. I also come here as I want to help others who are going through what I did.

I think there are so many things that are done well here. My only bugbear is how often early childhood trauma is quoted as the cause. I think that this can be harmful to some parents dealing with children with BPD. Any parent that has a child with something wrong with them blames themself. To hear that your parenting has caused your child to have BPD would be devastating.

[Lifewriter16]

How are we doing as a group?

I have noticed that many people who were posting when I joined in March are no longer here. I wonder if this is because they recycled and that they feel embarrassed by that.  Perhaps more emphasis needs to be put upon recycles being part of the learning process and thus a good thing (up to a point). I learnt so much through my 6 recycles with my BPDxbf. I needed to recycle to decide what I wanted to do and each recycle taught me more about BPD because I was also learning about it here. Ultimately, I got closure from my BPDxbf, despite it being thought that no closure can be obtained by a person with BPD and my fella is diagnosed BPD.

I wonder if people think that n/c is what is expected, this is pushed a lot and low contact less frequently discussed.

Can I suggest a poll to determine which characteristics distinguish a person who stays from a person who leaves could be constructive. Eg. looking at their life circumstances, marriage, children, commitment to therapy, length of relationship, violence and threats of violence. I'm not sure that people who stay are given any respect by a lot of posters here. And it's probably because we want other people to do what we ourselves are struggling to do, ie. break free.

What do we do well?

Responding to newbies and saying hello is generally well done, though there are times when a new thread, even by a newbie, receives no response for an inordinate length of time (a few hours is a very long time to someone who has made themselves vulnerable by posting). All new posters need to receive a welcoming reply within a couple of hours I would say.

Questions by experienced members for self-reflection given in threads. Very useful. Made me feel important to someone and cared about. Good thing is that they focus upon the person who has posted, they don't hijack the thread. I must say, I have been guilty of hijacking the thread on occasion. Only recently dawned on me that a new thread might be more appropriate.

How are we weak?

Challenging people who are stuck can frighten them off if not done sensitively. A recent challenge in a post about "What are you glad you will never hear again?" received a challenge which I felt was rather punitive. I felt 'told off', yet posting on that thread was a real positive move forward in enabling me to connect with what I did and didn't want. It helped me motivate myself to move away in a more determined manner by mobilising my anger because I got to see my experience summarised so succinctly. It was timely for me.

Recognising that working through the stages of grief takes time. How long is a person given leeway for emotionally immature responses? It seems to me that the therapeutically uninitiated could take months to get over the shock before they could even start to become self-reflective. I've had quite a lot of therapeutic input over the years and that has helped me to understand that, ultimately, my experience is down to me, yet it has taken me months of recycling and learning about BPD to let go and I'm still in the process.

Occasionally, posts that are judgemental of individual members occur. I read one thread as an early member that nearly made me leave. A member was highly criticised for being in an affair with someone with BPD. It almost felt like this person was chased out of town. I was absolutely horrified. The morals of having an affair is not the issue and is no one else's business (to my mind), the issue is that the person concerned was hurting and needed to be shown how to make a decision about the relationship. Instead, I thought the person was treated by a leper.

I hope this is the kind of thing you were hoping to get feedback on.

Lifewriter16

[Skip]

Some excellent points.

if you are considering some version of an ongoing relationship with your ex, the Leaving board will generally not be supportive of that, borne out of folk's own pain... .

Most of the non-married members adored the partner and felt the good out weighted the bad.  You'd never get that from reading here lately.  Some of the members that are the most verbal about the partners faults are the ones that miss them the most, feel the loss the greatest.  If painting black is dysfunctional coping for the ex, its not emotionally honest in may cases.

88% of Levers recycle. We have studied this for years.

We should be more respectful of someone agonizing over this.  To say "no, it never works" and pound them with platitudes is not helping anyone.  The irony is that we didn't buy it (we recycled) - why are we selling it so hard?  It doesn't sound very credible - hurt or not.

The end result is members hide the recycles or Leave the board.  :)o we want a support group where someone can't say, I want to go back without being treated like a drug addict wanting drug.  Most of partners are not diagnosable with a personality disorder or other mental illness.  The function in that area below "disease state".  :)umping them in the hopeless vampire box is silly.

The Leaving Board is about members who are out of the relationship for month than a month and needing to detach.  That is the focus.  If someone want to go back in, doing that work om another board makes sense - but we shouldn't shame them for it - we often do.

I exited a troubled relationship because a therapist said she had BPD traits and I didn't want to sign on for a life of relationship repairing. And I loved her.  And I don't think she is a monster.  And I am happy she married.  I often think she is happy with the new guy (although I don't know) because he fits with her better than I.  And I don't think any members partner is exactly like her or totally different.  These are not contradictory thoughts.  

[Mutt]

Occasionally, posts that are judgemental of individual members occur. I read one thread as an early member that nearly made me leave. A member was highly criticised for being in an affair with someone with BPD. It almost felt like this person was chased out of town. I was absolutely horrified. The morals of having an affair is not the issue and is no one else's business (to my mind), the issue is that the person concerned was hurting and needed to be shown how to make a decision about the relationship. Instead, I thought the person was treated by a leper.

I agree with this and I wanted to touch on affairs. My ex partner had an affair and I can understand how painful and resentful that can feel and I think what's important is that we're all brothers and sisters and sometimes we make good choices and not so good choices in life. It's not for me to judge someone based on their choice.

I would hate to see someone turned away because they had an affair when dealing with a difficult personality disorder that is often directed at the person that was intimate with that person and often others don't see. Where can you turn to for support? The person is hurting just as much as any other member and we can relate to how painfully deep these wounds can be.

[Turkish]

Occasionally, posts that are judgemental of individual members occur. I read one thread as an early member that nearly made me leave. A member was highly criticised for being in an affair with someone with BPD. It almost felt like this person was chased out of town. I was absolutely horrified. The morals of having an affair is not the issue and is no one else's business (to my mind), the issue is that the person concerned was hurting and needed to be shown how to make a decision about the relationship. Instead, I thought the person was treated by a leper.

I agree with this and I wanted to touch on affairs. My ex partner had an affair and I can understand how painful and resentful that can feel and I think what's important is that we're all brothers and sisters and sometimes we make good choices and not so good choices in life.

It took me well over a year here before I could even respond to members who landed here in situations like this. When triggered or angry, I had to step away or move onto another thread.

As for judging? My best friend (going on 30 years now) engaged in an affair with a married woman two decades ago.  I did judge him at the beginning, but I still loved him afterwards. He's a friend, after all, and a very good one. The best. Maybe this is a good way to think about it: how would I respond if this person on the board were my friend?

[LimboFL]

My two cents:

As a member who joined 4 years ago, got back with my partner and managed to make it last for another 3/12 years, I consider myself a part of this family and most here have read some of my contributions. I genuinely and deeply care, it's who I am.

There is absolutely no question that so much of what is said, particularly by the senior board members, here is delivered with extreme kindness and understanding. On the other hand, I do sometimes feel that, some, offer advice using a very rigid and strict set of rules where the sole focal point is on the belief that ALL pwBPD are exactly the same. Those who know me have read my familiar refrain that each and every one of our partners are humans with their own experience and their own personalities, like all of us. I often worry that the more vulnerable among us might be swayed to step away from their compassionate view on their exBPD partners and take on a more angry hateful stance.

I recently posted about a recent and very unexpected "contact" from my ex, after 6 months of silence. It might have been the context I used and my penchant for both revealing my intentions and keeping everyone posted, that I received very kind and sweet advice that, instead of telling me "don't answer, don't give them the satisfaction", cautionary but advised me to do what I felt in my heart. I had a PM recently with a member who reached out to me and I explained that most of us where in long term relationships with our partners. None of us are that blind that we could have ever been fooled for the lengths of these relationships.

As a result, while anger is natural, most of know that our exBPD's did care, did love us, were humans and that we did see those sides, but that the disorder kept them from being able to sustain any of it.

Idealization only lasts so long. While some might be filled with anger, and that this is natural, I believe that we need to steer the conversation whereby detachment is the ultimate goal but to do so in a responsible way so that any non who comes here raw and in pain isn't led to believe that they were fools who got suckered and that the person they loved was nothing but a snake in the grass, evil animal with only selfish intentions. Do I doubt that there are some who are selfish? Hell yes, just like there are people like this throughout the human race. But sometimes it feels like pwBPD simply all get lumped into this category, by default, that all pwBPD are evil animals.

I REPEAT, most of our senior members DO following a compassionate "code", but there is no question that there are small invasions here, from time to time where CERTAIN, largely new members, come in full of hatred and anger, who advise other new susceptible members who might not have the maturity level or experience to filter out the noise, who are not able to form their own opinions.

Ultimately, in my situation, I made my own decision to respond to my ex and how, while also enforcing NC.

As mentioned, as it pertains to my own threads, I have found nothing but compassion and unity and those on this board who exude this "feel" know who they are. My objective here is not to chastise anyone. We all come here in extreme pain but if I am reading Skip's reasons for starting this thread, it might be that it is necessary for all of us to kind of lightly help keep the tone kind and compassionate, to kind of help "Police".

The more senior people of the group know how to get this done without hurting or insulting anyone. I have been guilty of running into a thread and simply walking right back out because the tone was too harsh. Maybe, given that I have benefited from this amazing place, I should make more of an effort to turn the tide of a conversation that I see is going in the wrong direction, where the original poster might not be getting the best message.

With all of this said, I hope that no one takes offence to anything said. I do not see myself as any kind of authority on any of this, I just know that I run into certain threads and they just feel dirty and BPD Family has always been a mature, intelligent and compassionate space. I know that my healing process could not have happened without this amazing place. I am a very strong person but if I had not found this place, who knows where my head would be at right now. But if I had been met with some of the anger and vitriol I see more of these days, who knows.

My last comment will be on the issue of the "affair" person. I remember it well and I believe that the anger stemmed from the fact that the person KNOWINGLY engaged in pursuing and courting a married person.

I am sorry but I can't condone that. There was another poster on here recently who, as well faced the idea of not only cheating on their own spouse but also being party to the infidelity of the new love interest. This person chose, despite clearly strong feelings, to push back and recognize that it was wrong to pursue.

Ultimately, as their individual relationships were at their end, then the decision was made to jump into the "affair".

I am not a religious man, but I can completely appreciate the harsh feelings other members had towards someone who openly admitted to possibly being the cause of another persons horrific pain (spouse). I didn't stay long enough to see if their were children involved.

My reaction? I simply walked away from that thread. I can understand the desire not to chase anyone away but man can I understand the desire to ignore said person (please keep in mind the kind of person I am, when I say this). He was an orbiter that wouldn't let go.

It is one thing to be some innocent stooge who gets hit on and pursues. But if you find out that the person you are pursing is in a committed relationship, you BACK the F OFF and GO AWAY! Sorry, I am very adamant on this matter. However, I agree that the better approach, at least for me, was to walk away, not tar and feather.

Maybe a note could be made upon registering that advises new members to not provide details of how they met their SO's, especially if that meeting happened to have been an affair. Ignorance is bliss!

Thank you for allowing me to speak my mind.

[lbjnltx]

I think there are so many things that are done well here. My only bugbear is how often early childhood trauma is quoted as the cause. I think that this can be harmful to some parents dealing with children with BPD. Any parent that has a child with something wrong with them blames themself. To hear that your parenting has caused your child to have BPD would be devastating.

Dear enlighten me,

The etiology of BPD is a evidence based science question, not a "how it makes me feel" question. And frankly, bpdfamily.com is what is needed here.

As a biological parent to a recovered borderline I also want to caution each of us to own our roles in our relationships.  While I never abandoned, abused, or neglected my child I also did not parent her in the way she needed to be parented.  I had no clue what she needed and all the parenting classes, programs for parenting difficult kids, and advice I received from other parents didn't help my child or my relationship with her.

What did help us both was accepting that I had made mistakes in the relationship, apologizing for those mistakes and then learning to be a better person/parent for her and myself.  I suffered much verbal and emotional abuse from my child and refused to be a victim.  I refused to be powerless and watch my child suffer so I educated myself about the disorder, learned the skills to cope with the emotions she threw at me, the fears that I had for her future and made some hard choices that paid off in spades.

While we don't want to lay blame at a parent's feet we also don't want to excuse them from having any responsibility in the broken relationship.  How does this relate to the Leaving Board?  Regardless of whether my daughter recovered or not, I was left to deal with my feelings, my fears, my lack of personal skills to go on living and thriving.  Leavers are too.

When we lay all the blame at anyone's feet we are saying "I'm a victim here." Some people may find it much easier to stay a victim than to reject victimhood.  It is up to each one of us to decide to educate ourselves, learn coping skills, and mature emotionally so that we can go on to live full, rich lives. 

I remain here on this site to encourage, help educate, and hold accountable other parents looking for help.  I am richly blessed with a success story so far and want to pay it forward.  I can validate ... .then what?  I can commiserate... .then what?  Then comes the hard work of personal change for a better life.  I can't do the work for anyone else and I can lead by example.

lbjnltx

[Turkish]

A couple of thoughtful ideas

How about an additional anchor thread at the top of the message board that takes people to various links of stories from folks who have been through this and are at various stages of recovering.  Like the book AA, there are 43 stories of folks who became alcoholic and recovered.  The many stories allow identification across a number of different walks of life and places in recovery.

I know it relates to nearer the end of the journey, but something like this?

Perspectives:  How We Gained Control Of Our Lives

How I Gained Control of My Life

A popular suggestion in recent months has been to collect a series of short stories from members that have made significant progress and improvement in their life... .and we thought we would try that here.

This thread is for a single post about your "healing story".  We ask that only members that have worked through the are large part of the process - sorting their BP relationship issues, and inventorying their own life - post here.  

There are no rules, but we do ask that your follow this outline (maybe even use titles) to make it easier for the readers:

1 - Brief summary of your BP situation.

2-  Outline of your recovery/healing process

3-  A short discussion on what you have learned.

This should be interesting - I personally look forward to insights and wisdoms that can only come from those that have been there.

Good reading!

[joeramabeme]

A couple of thoughtful ideas

How about an additional anchor thread at the top of the message board that takes people to various links of stories from folks who have been through this and are at various stages of recovering.  Like the book AA, there are 43 stories of folks who became alcoholic and recovered.  The many stories allow identification across a number of different walks of life and places in recovery.

I know it relates to nearer the end of the journey, but something like this?

Perspectives:  How We Gained Control Of Our Lives

Turkish, yes, similar to this but I was thinking more formally organized. 

- Hard links to individual stories versus scrolling a post. 

- Descriptive story titles that provide reference of applicability.  For example; "40 year old Mom of 2 with child that has BPD was at wits end"  or "10 year marriage now In process of divorce and never understood what was wrong" etc.

- Provide links inside of story line to site resources.  For example story says; "she always spoke in terms of 'always' and 'never'" which could link to article on splitting.  Allow readers to identify with the passages and have opportunity to go to related reading.

- Perhaps attach a posting thread to the story for comments and discussion.

Am I too far out of the box?

[enlighten me]

I think there are so many things that are done well here. My only bugbear is how often early childhood trauma is quoted as the cause. I think that this can be harmful to some parents dealing with children with BPD. Any parent that has a child with something wrong with them blames themself. To hear that your parenting has caused your child to have BPD would be devastating.

Dear enlighten me,

The etiology of BPD is a evidence based science question, not a "how it makes me feel" question. And frankly, bpdfamily.com is what is needed here.

As a biological parent to a recovered borderline I also want to caution each of us to own our roles in our relationships.  While I never abandoned, abused, or neglected my child I also did not parent her in the way she needed to be parented.  I had no clue what she needed and all the parenting classes, programs for parenting difficult kids, and advice I received from other parents didn't help my child or my relationship with her.

What did help us both was accepting that I had made mistakes in the relationship, apologizing for those mistakes and then learning to be a better person/parent for her and myself.  I suffered much verbal and emotional abuse from my child and refused to be a victim.  I refused to be powerless and watch my child suffer so I educated myself about the disorder, learned the skills to cope with the emotions she threw at me, the fears that I had for her future and made some hard choices that paid off in spades.

While we don't want to lay blame at a parent's feet we also don't want to excuse them from having any responsibility in the broken relationship.  How does this relate to the Leaving Board?  Regardless of whether my daughter recovered or not, I was left to deal with my feelings, my fears, my lack of personal skills to go on living and thriving.  Leavers are too.

When we lay all the blame at anyone's feet we are saying "I'm a victim here." Some people may find it much easier to stay a victim than to reject victimhood.  It is up to each one of us to decide to educate ourselves, learn coping skills, and mature emotionally so that we can go on to live full, rich lives. 

I remain here on this site to encourage, help educate, and hold accountable other parents looking for help.  I am richly blessed with a success story so far and want to pay it forward.  I can validate ... .then what?  I can commiserate... .then what?  Then comes the hard work of personal change for a better life.  I can't do the work for anyone else and I can lead by example.

lbjnltx

Hi ibjnltx

I dont want to get into an argument over the origins of BPD. Im sure many know my view. Whilst I agree that parents make mistakes when dealing with BPD and need to know where they went wrong so they can improve how the interact with their child I do feel it could be done in a better way. By saying that its purely nurture which I have read numerous times is not only misleading but potentially harmful. My point with not just the origin topic but with all is that stating anything as fact is not only misleading but potentially harmful. Whether its stating they will cheat or going NC is the only way or its the parents fault is not always helpful. We are all individuals. We all have different circumstances. There isnt a one shot answer for every situation so care should be taken. I know this because my posts may have been misinterpreted as fact and I can see how potentially harmful this could be.

[hurting300]

Some excellent points.

if you are considering some version of an ongoing relationship with your ex, the Leaving board will generally not be supportive of that, borne out of folk's own pain... .

Most of the non-married members adored the partner and felt the good out weighted the bad.  You'd never get that from reading here lately.  Some of the members that are the most verbal about the partners faults are the ones that miss them the most, feel the loss the greatest.  If painting black is dysfunctional coping for the ex, its not emotionally honest in may cases.

88% of Levers recycle. We have studied this for years.

We should be more respectful of someone agonizing over this.  To say "no, it never works" and pound them with platitudes is not helping anyone.  The irony is that we didn't buy it (we recycled) - why are we selling it so hard?  It doesn't sound very credible - hurt or not.

The end result is members hide the recycles or Leave the board.  :)o we want a support group where someone can't say, I want to go back without being treated like a drug addict wanting drug.  Most of partners are not diagnosable with a personality disorder or other mental illness.  The function in that area below "disease state".  :)umping them in the hopeless vampire box is silly.

The Leaving Board is about members who are out of the relationship for month than a month and needing to detach.  That is the focus.  If someone want to go back in, doing that work om another board makes sense - but we shouldn't shame them for it - we often do.

I exited a troubled relationship because a therapist said she had BPD traits and I didn't want to sign on for a life of relationship repairing. And I loved her.  And I don't think she is a monster.  And I am happy she married.  I often think she is happy with the new guy (although I don't know) because he fits with her better than I.  And I don't think any members partner is exactly like her or totally different.  These are not contradictory thoughts.  

I'll have to admit you are correct . I do miss the good times even though I'm a shark with her.

[Lifewriter16]

How about an additional anchor thread at the top of the message board that takes people to various links of stories from folks who have been through this and are at various stages of recovering.  Like the book AA, there are 43 stories of folks who became alcoholic and recovered.  The many stories allow identification across a number of different walks of life and places in recovery.

I like this idea. When I arrived here, I didn't know where to start, so I just clicked on something that looked interesting. I could have done with very clear posting to a basic guide on how to use the website. I'm sure the basic guide exists, but clearer posting would have helped. Eg. 'New to BPD Family? - Read this first!' (in massive letters surrounded by red or other very vibrant, eye catching colour). There's loads of stuff on the website, but finding my way around it has been an ad hoc process and I suspect I've not read the basic guidance. When it came to the threads, I just pitched in and then started welcoming people as I'd been welcomed. I've no idea whether that was what was wanted of me. I've just been feeling my way.

Lifewriter

[Aussie JJ]

Hi all,

Very good topic Skip.  

There are stages that we all go through.  If anything I think the ultiamate goal is growth, when we go through the different stages the result is growth in my mind.  This comes through detachment and also through focusing our energy inwards.  

To expand on this, I came here in many respects (metaphorically) a snail stuck in its shell hiding from everything bombarding me.  My ex partners emotions, my own emotions.  :)enial is something that I think at times all of us still encounter, I am still amazed some days by the logic or lack of logic and just the justification of all of the actions that are taking place around me as im still going through the process.  

I think something that assisted me a huge amount was learning to be non-judgemental again.  I lost this and it was me that lost it and me that had to reclaim that ability to be non-judgemental.  

Once this happened, I stopped judging my ex partner and her choices, stopped judging my own choices and perceived failures.  To radically accept those flaws that our partners, children, parents and most importantly we ourselves as individuals have is the most powerful thing I have learn't.  

I would say its a path of self discovery and growth, that is the gift that this site has given me.  Something that offended me initially was people saying, "You're putting in the hard work, you're doing XYZ, you will get through this."  It was like it was all on me to fix it, for me the relevation came when I stopped trying to fix it and just accepted it for what it was, not being judgemental of my own perceived failures but learning from them is how this site has enabled me to live a healthier and happier life.  

I think giving that perspective is extreamly important, it is about our own happiness, what we want to learn from the relatonship that we are in and staying in or the relatoinship we are leaving and detaching from.  Two very different things and not being judgemental of peoples choices is very important.  

It is all growth and learning new skills to cope with changes we need to make so we as individuals can be healthier and happier about our lives and our choices.  

I think this needs to be put forward a little it more in the introductions.  

When faced with something new now I enjoy the challenge, I make it my job and push myself to find enjoyment in finding a solution to whatever the problem is.  I can control my actions, if I get past this hurdle, this challenge today, tomorrow will be so much easier and so much more enjoyable, when I get through this I will be able to get through anything.  

Changing that mindset from fixing a failure and all the problems assosiated with the different parts of that problem, partners, childrens contributing factors etc.  Concentrating on our own selves and the meaning that we get from the different choices we make and being the best version of ourselves is what I have got the most out of.  

I still find it hard to express this in a straight forward, easy to digest manner.  In it's simplest form however just being happy with those choices, those solutions and the way we conduct ourselves is something that I have learnt alot from.  

Recognising that is somthing that I have had to re-learn and it has been the initial guidance of this site, a skilled profesional to pick apart those thought processes and challenge me that has enabled me to grow individually and be healthier and happier.  


AJJ.  

[cloudten]

Some excellent points.



The end result is members hide the recycles or Leave the board.  :)o we want a support group where someone can't say, I want to go back without being treated like a drug addict wanting drug.  Most of partners are not diagnosable with a personality disorder or other mental illness.  The function in that area below "disease state".  :)umping them in the hopeless vampire box is silly.

I do have to say that I agree with this. I joined this board last fall in the midst of trying to decide whether to recycle or not. I had been through quite a traumatic time. I learned a lot in that time. When we finally decided to get together and be together (again), I came to the board significantly less. If I did, it was usually because I had an issue or just needed some information or support... .but it was significantly less. I did this for two reasons: I felt I didn't need it as much, and I felt that coming here emphasized his issues in our relationship versus just working on the r/s with BPD in the background. I don't know if this is making sense. When I was in the recycle, coming here made BPD the center of the relationship rather that working on it thru BPD lenses.  Sorry just not good with words today.

I also noticed that the few times I did come here, it was a trigger for me to feel horrible about the relationship and my decision to pursue the recycle. I would leave work and have a bad attitude about him when I got home, particularly if he was dysregulated or being particularly black/white about things. Seeing his symptoms after having been on the board made me particularly confused about my decision to stay.  As he told me a few days ago when I left "You were done a long time ago"... .and I think he was right, and I know that part of that is because of my time on this board. I can't say it was anyone's "leaving" messages. It was never one particular conversation. I believe that this board was actually a dose of reality... .a very real reality that if I ignored it, it went away.

In the end, I picked the board, and here I am again. I picked this board. I picked reality. I picked sanity. This is reality. The disease is a reality... .and it frequently wins.

I think people who pass by could be much like me- not wanting to face reality. They get a little dose of reality and it either scares them away or they embrace it... .as I have.  And the reality is, this disease destroys... .and nobody wants it to destroy these r/s.

[LimboFL]

Fromheel,

I understand where you are coming from, completely. I will be the first to admit that I had plenty of anger, plenty of internal name calling and that, it might have been only a few weeks ago, where I read another post where the posters title was "letting go with love", I was in no place to even contemplate taking the letting go with love route.

My entire position changed, on it's own, when my ex left a voice mail with an "I love you". I sat on the decision for a couple of days,posted here, and then on my own decided what I wanted to do, which was to respond in a way that told her that I still loved and missed her, that I will never understand and finally, because it would be too painful after having gone through so much of it, to pursue any form of contact.

You are absolutely right, we all go through similar stages and that our exBPD's, do have many eerie similarities in terms of their actions. However, I know that if I stood one person's ex next to my own, I would find countless differences, all of which present themselves when they are not in the midst of a BPD "moment". It is absolutely natural that both because of time/attention constraints that most of what is discussed her are the difficult moments, with small strokes of "there were happy moments" peppered in between. So it is natural that we start to form opinions that BPD's are all the same. We are condensing, often times years of life into 4 paragraphs (in my case many more =)

I say without any "pat myself on the back" insinuations but even through my anger stage, I never brought it onto the board. I may have exudes stress and confusion but I always refrained from sharing my highly negative thoughts here. As the old saying our Mother's use to express "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all". I believe that this needs to be encouraged here, with the expressed understanding that anger and sometimes hatred is natural but that the family prefers that it not be expressed here. This doesn't mean that this is supposed to suggest that we all act like happy go lucky people who only encourage chipper happy people on the site. That isn't possible given the pain we have or continue to go through. However, I do think that we can steer members to pull back a little if they are expressing too much non constructive anger here and certainly to encourage members not to refer to any pwBPD with the kind of language that insinuates that they aren't human, that they are all evil etc. I don't believe that by "imposing" reasonable restrictions that we are somehow suppressing anyone's emotions.

There is a difference between saying "I hate him/her for what he/she did to me" or someone else responding with "you have every right to be angry and hate what he/she did to you", and saying "they are evil, calculated scum that don't deserve to live". I have read comments/advice that very much resembles the latter statement. This is obviously an extreme example, but I think everyone knows where the line is.

The suggestion refers exclusively to what is said and brought on the board and not a suggestion that anyone not feel these raw emotions within themselves. I couldn't repeat some of the thoughts I have had about my ex anywhere.

Finally, I absolutely agree with you that it is incumbent upon all of us to try and determine the state of mind of the people that we try to council. But we can massage a poster away from the anger and despair. Mutt and Skip most often start their response with an empathetic opener "I understand that you feel like that" or "I know how painful this is" but... .

In my experience, it is rarely the original posters that make me walk away, but rather some of the responders.

As usual I have been very long winded. We have all be on horrible journeys and no one, least of all me, believes in being judge and jury but I believe that it is acceptable to try and maintain a certain tone. As you stated heel, the true benefit of this site is the feeling of shared experience. It is possible that some posters want to share more but are being dissuaded to do so because certain responses might be too aggressive.

Clearly, as a moderator, Skip felt this was a worthy topic of discussion which means that the tone, on the site, is starting to veer down another path.

Thank you for listening.

[enlighten me]

As people are discussing people not staying I would like to chip in. When I split from my ex wife in 2011 I looked for answwrs. I had never heard of BPD but came across histrionic. It had some similarities and I joined a site. After a short time I realised it wasnt a fit and left. Maybe this is one reason people are leaving. They realise their SO doesnt fit BPD.

Another could be that they dont need as much support so an affirmatoon of BPD is all they needed before moving on.

For others maybe sipport groups just arent their thing.

or another reason is reading and talking about it is triggering.

Finally some just reach a point that letting go of the site is the final thing in their healing process.

[fromheeltoheal]

I say without any "pat myself on the back" insinuations but even through my anger stage, I never brought it onto the board. I may have exudes stress and confusion but I always refrained from sharing my highly negative thoughts here. As the old saying our Mother's use to express "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all". I believe that this needs to be encouraged here, with the expressed understanding that anger and sometimes hatred is natural but that the family prefers that it not be expressed here. This doesn't mean that this is supposed to suggest that we all act like happy go lucky people who only encourage chipper happy people on the site. That isn't possible given the pain we have or continue to go through. However, I do think that we can steer members to pull back a little if they are expressing too much non constructive anger here and certainly to encourage members not to refer to any pwBPD with the kind of language that insinuates that they aren't human, that they are all evil etc. I don't believe that by "imposing" reasonable restrictions that we are somehow suppressing anyone's emotions.

There is a difference between saying "I hate him/her for what he/she did to me" or someone else responding with "you have every right to be angry and hate what he/she did to you", and saying "they are evil, calculated scum that don't deserve to live". I have read comments/advice that very much resembles the latter statement. This is obviously an extreme example, but I think everyone knows where the line is.

Oh yes, I used some extremely colorful language when I got here, wished I'd killed her, the whole nine, but I don't remember folks piling on with me, maybe but I didn't notice, whatever, so Skip's got a point with this thread, maybe things have taken a turn recently, nothing that can't be unturned.

It depends on the goal.  Expressing anger is purging and necessary, and I say if someone's in that place let fly, and the rest of us can acknowledge it, validate the feeling, and offer focus shifts, reframing and nudging to be used when an OP is ready.  Someone weighing in with their own anger and projecting it onto the OP's partner is crossing that line, I agree, although I don't know that everyone realizes that when they're in the middle of it, and there can be what appears to be benefit for both the OP and poster: the OP gets validated in their anger and the poster gets to purge, and they've now created a friendship against an enemy they see as common.  Although that does have what feels like a benefit for them it does not contribute to the overall goal of detaching and healing.  So what to do?  We can stay the course with what we're doing and use that 'Report to moderator' function more maybe, to adjust the tone to where it needs to be to provide the most benefit.  I don't think that's a massive undertaking, and if focused on the threads could be cleaned up quickly.

Thanks for the discourse!

[myself]

When I first found this site, it was the mix of facts and personal stories that helped the most. Which set the example of how to best proceed with understanding, grieving, and moving on. People like Seeking Balance (such a great screen name) reached out to me, both on the boards and behind the scenes, letting me know I was not alone in what I was going through. Being able to share what we've learned, including the mistakes, has proven to be an important part of healing. Some days that's when we've taken a few steps forward, and some we've taken steps back. It's all part of the bigger picture. Being anonymous hopefully helps more people be more honest here, which is a big plus. Speaking for myself, I don't see how I would've been as far along now as I am, both during and after the r/s, without this site and the many many people I've interacted with here. Thanks to all!

[LimboFL]

Heel, I understand completely and believe that we are on the same page. We have been through hell, I mean I am still not completely out of the last semi contact yet, but I know that I feel so much better that I ran with my gut and sent her a loving email. Regardless of how it was received, what mattered most was that the last message that will ring forever was a kind and loving one.

As mentioned, the examples used were extreme. Report to moderator seems extreme, maybe rather a little talk down from someone who runs into a negative thread.

I think that a part of what we are facing, because I am certainly running into a lot of "first loves" and young one threads. They see things a little differently.

Anyway, thank you, in return for the discourse.

[Loosestrife]

Hi

I have found some mentors/advisors to be more balanced than others. I think the moderating of what should be posted on each board is really well done. I have also found that the posts I can respond to and my objectivity depends on how I have been coping in my own r/s. Perhaps a self assessment criteria for mentors for each board would be useful?

E.g for staying board - have you been in the relationship long term and feel confident in using the validation techniques? Or the leaving board - have you been out of the r/s for a while and feel able to advise objectively. What I'm trying to say is I think you should be able to step down from mentoring if you enter a difficult phase yourself and we need to look after you guys

L

[gomez_addams]

Good question.

I've received some very positive feedback from folks who gained something from my posts over the past six months, as I went from the staying board to the undecided board to the divorce board to the detaching board.

Rather than checking back twice a day (or more) because I was mostly interested in responses to my own posts, I check back once or twice a week to see other's posts.  My experience is limited (short marriage, no kids, uncontested divorce, she is thousands of miles away), but there are areas I can help.

Those areas are mostly in the "between the ears" portion.  I've been in a 12-step group for roughly 15+ years, so I fall back on what I've been taught there.  There's things I can control (my thoughts and actions) and things I can't control (everything else you can think of -- people, places, and things -- that are not my thoughts and my actions).  So I try to keep my advice to either tactical stuff during the divorce process, or "stop obsessing on the negative stuff that is out of your control and start focusing on what positive steps you can take"... .

I'd like to continue to help people if I can.  People took the time to help me, and I feel a debt of gratitude.  I'm not an expert, but I think I have a sense of peace that many people struggle to find.  Again, I believe this comes from 15+ years of learning to look at my role in things, learning to let go of things I can't control, and focusing as much as I can on doing the next correct action.

Gomez

[joeramabeme]

What we could do better

One thing that I think needs improvement is the home page message.  I get it now, but when I arrived for the first time, I seriously had no idea what this site was all about.  I was desperate so I looked deeper and am so grateful that I did.  I am still new enough to remember that when I saw a happy mother with her child flying in the air I remember thinking I probably don’t belong here. 

I am not sure who to direct this message but I believe it is SKIP; the new home page banner gets the message across much better.  I think the message can relate to how we are likely to feel when we arrive here and even has a certain appeal to it.  I love the image of the women you found, she really looks genuine!  NICE!   

Also a huge amount of kudos to the bpdfamily team for being stable enough to ask for feedback and to listen.

You all have had such a significantly positive impact on my recovery/recovering.

I am not her Knight in shining armor, for sure!

Cheers!

[antelope]

the message board gets an A+ from me

so much learned,

so much related to,

so many viewpoints discussed,

so many valuable insights,

so many ideas bounced around... .

the Leaving Board is not for the faint of heart, nor should it be... .the brutal and usually ugly truth is CRUCIAL at that stage... .took me a while to finally sign up here (lurked for about a year), but once I did, boy did things change... .L6 is great too 

insight from other members (esp 2010) was usually better than my sessions with my therapist... .

[HappyNihilist]

Mentor - I'm starting to makes sense of it all. I have mostly balance/mature tone (not always)

I'm still on my own journey of healing and recovering, so I know I'm not always balanced and mature. Mentoring others always helps me learn and grow. We all have so much to teach and share with each other.

the Leaving Board is not for the faint of heart

Didn't you read the sign above the door when you came in? The one that says "Abandon hope all ye who enter"? 

[SGraham]

Id hope to eventually become a mentor, as of now i feel like maybe a novice mentor. Ive started to check out the L6 and L4 boards to try to rebuild a bit.

[Eye438]

I am fairly new here and have been reading a lot. At this point I have no desire to mentor, I spent too many years being the rescuer. I love that this caters mainly to codependency, whether it be a relationship with a BPD person or an alcoholic. I am looking for more discussion on codependency itself and the feelings I am having as result of being traumatized into facing my own issue, that being codependency. I struggle everyday with triggers and emptiness. I love the tools here but I am very fragile inside, just trying to post feelings can be difficult when looking for answers. The matter for me is the extreme loneliness and feeling unloved, I have wonderful support, but I am working very hard on distracting myself from focusing on what I don't have.

I go to bed every night and read the message boards here until I am exhausted from it, it really is helpful knowing there are thousands of people who are also suffering, but also alarming. My mood swings were so bad I had suicidal thoughts, but I talked to close friends and now crying relieves the unbearable pressure of my emptiness and the feeling that I lived  my life in vain.

I have such a long way to go but I feel improvement by reading the message boards here and keeping myself busy.

Thank you for the hard work of keeping this site going and the raw honesty.

[Panda39]

I think I would describe myself as a novice mentor.  I have the desire to help but have those nagging insecurities... .am I helping?  I want to give my opinion but in a way that the person I'm talking to can hear. I know my own weaknesses... .I can be black and white at times and think my way is the best way... .sometimes those things surface. Do I talk too much about my story? (I often share my story as a way for the other person to know that I had something similar happen in my situation) I worry that I will hurt someone by something I've said.  I am not a professional.

All that said I do try my best.  I agree with someone who mentioned earlier that it is important to greet newbies quickly and that is something I like to do. (I might have a job as a Walmart greeter when I retire  )  I try and validate their experience, I try to give them a link about a topic they mention in their post (get them involved and provide information), I mention the support I've received, I encourage them to post and engage in the discussions.

There are some posts that do trigger me and my solution the old adage... .If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it.  That doesn't mean that I am unwilling to challenge someone but I have to be mindful of what my motivation is and is what I have to say constructive.

This site has done a lot for me when I arrived I was one angry lady. There are still some pieces of advice that I received back then that have stuck with me to this day. Matt advising me to stop focusing on mom and focus on the kids for example.  NorthernGirl's first greeting and how cool it was to find that there were other stepmom's here.  A year and a half later I have come to radical acceptance regarding my SO's uBPDx.  I used to always get angry and ask "why" she did this and that.  I don't do that anymore she is just going to do what she's going to do.  I won't lie and say I still don't get angry when mom hurts the kids but it is more short lived now and incident specific.

My SO also is a member and the site has helped us better understand BPD, have a common language, given us tools that have helped us and his daughters and still other tools learned here have been used in my everyday life.

I think this site offers a lot to many.  I always go with the assumption that everyone here is trying to help.  I think we also need to keep in mind that everyone is coming at this from different angles... .relationships, family members, friends etc. And everyone in all those categories are at different places in their personal journeys.

I feel like I have a strange group of friends here cats, wolves, birds, Snoopy... .I often wonder what everyone looks like in real life... .no I don't have two black eyes  Does LiveandLearned have a tail?  Does ForeverDad have a bad sense of direction?  And does Skip work a Jack in the Box? Inquiring minds want to know   

Panda39 

[AwakenedOne]

I selected Other.

Many people helped me here though so I still would like to give back somehow. If I may list below the members that were especially helpful and also express my thanks.

Skip

Mutt

Turkish

Cosmonaut

AG

Myself

BorisAcusio

Fromheeltoheal

Blimblam

Goldylamont

Mywifecrazy

HappyNihilist

I consider myself healed, detached and looking ahead. I have debated leaving the site to not think of BPD. People need help or to be heard here though so I most of the time try to log in maybe once a week or so to see if I can attempt to add something of use to the conversation. I'm gauging the level of my helpfulness in the process which will help determine whether to journey on or to visit.