I don't even know what I am supposed to be doing right now

[Daniell85]

Since speaking to my boyfriend 5 days ago, I have not been doing much, except going about my usual activities and work.

I read a lot here, think a lot about the long term implications. I haven't seen my therapist and do not have an appointment with her until the 29th. I have avoided social site where my boyfriend is. I haven't been back onto facebook. Maybe he unblocked me. Maybe he didn't. I am avoiding going there because I know seeing he still has me blocked is going to upset me.

He is present on Skype a lot. He hasn't said anything.  I haven't said anything to him, either. Probably he will ignore me, and then I would feel crap, so I am silent.

I do have the impulse, then it all feels like futility, so I go do something else.

Basically he told me what he wanted, which was to let some time pass so I can heal. He feels I have making him out to be "bad" because I am still upset and sometimes vocal about his affair. My panic attacks and so on trigger off rage on his part, and then there is a conflict. This happens every couple of weeks, sometimes every month. He feels this is beating him up and he wants to avoid it.

I didn't argue with him. Or tell him my own preference. There is no point. He refuses to do anything but what he has decided is best.

There was no agreement on a time limit of this break. No agreements for "rules" ( dating and so on).

I don't feel there is any point in trying to discuss. The chances of being hung up on after he gets mad are pretty much 100% if I try to talk about such things. So I let it go. He would not honor any agreement anyway, on the basis it was a demand and he gets to do whatever whim he feels.

Probably he won't do much anyway. I figure he will just carry on business as usual, except without talking to or seeing me until I have "healed".  Healed means I don't complain at him for what he has done, have panic attacks, or expect extra hand holding because I can't trust him. If I don't trust him, I am not healed, and he is not going to subject himself to my emotional problems.

At this point I am sat here kind of not really knowing what to do about this relationship. I'm kind of lacking in initiative in terms of trying to get him to talk, I don't feel much optimism about going through the rest of my life where he ditches me if I show upset at him.

I'm just kind of circling this concept. Kind of feeling some resentment, too.

Don't really know what to do. I know he was expecting me to make some big visible effort to him, but I just kind of don't feel like it.

Maybe am just depressed. Don't know.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[JohnLove]

Hi Daniell85, you may be coming out of a BPD FOG, although you seem pretty aware of your situation and what your SO expects of you. You need to continue to think carefully about what you want... .and your expectations of the relationship. You usual activities and work will help keep you focused.

All I am saying is... .keep going.

[Daniell85]

It's pretty daunting.

I believe the majority of issues blowing up would disappear if I were able to stay calm. For me it's the panic disorder. I had a massive panic attack yesterday over something with him.

What I am left with right now is a sense of despair. It seems love can't overcome it right now, will, staying power. Better understanding of BPD disorder. I still have the panic attack because I am terrified of the lies, deceptions. I understand it's aspects of BPD and it's not about me, but I appear to have some trauma.

After a big panic attack, I feel helpless. It will never work because I can't stay calm and I never know when something is going to trigger one off.

BPD and the random acts of the way my boyfriend copes. I guess I can't cope. I don't mean any harm, I love him dearly.

I feel really discouraged.

[formflier]

Since speaking to my boyfriend 5 days ago, I have not been doing much,

Let's come up with a plan... .so that in another 5 days you can say... .

"Since speaking to my boyfriend xx days ago... .I've had a fulfilling life... ."

Plus... .when and if your boyfriend decides to talk to you again... .you will have a lot to talk to him about.  And... .if your boyfriend decides to stay NC... you will still have a lot to talk about with other friends... family... .new people...

We can't guarantee outcomes by following tools and strategies (we will greatly increase chances of good outcomes)...

However... .what I can 99% guarantee is that waiting on a pwBPD to sort things out... .some back into your life... and "make you happy"... .is not a good strategy.

Can you up the freqency of your T visits?  Are panic attacks something that you are actively working on with your T?  Do you see a P or have a P that works with your T?

FF

[Daniell85]

I will be seeing my therapist every week after this coming week. She does know about the panic attacks. I have only been there 2 times, so we haven't had time to really get into things.

I don't have a P, but my doctor has offered to refer me to one.

Boyfriend has been setting himself as available on Skype. We had a very brief conversation today, initiated by him. I think he believed I would have tried to talk to him this last week. I didn't until he said something today. I didn't feel like talking very much.

I feel better that he talked and is making himself present, but knowing that he feels ok about blocking me, giving me ST, ignoring me for weeks and months. I am having a hard time not taking it personally.

When I say I haven't been doing much, I meant exciting things, I guess. I am doing what I normally do, instead of grinding to a stop, like I have so many times in the past. I am doing better in getting busy and getting on with things.

Just feel sad, depressed a lot. Not wanting to put myself out there for my boyfriend to... lie again to me, cheat some more, bully me, threaten me, blame me for everything and then punish me with ST, ignoring, invalidating telling me everything is in my head. I guess I am taking very seriously the idea of him having BPD.

[formflier]

I will be seeing my therapist every week after this coming week. She does know about the panic attacks. I have only been there 2 times, so we haven't had time to really get into things.

I don't have a P, but my doctor has offered to refer me to one.

Ah... I understand... makes sense.

I would recommend going to a P for a full workup... .obviously focused around panic attacks. 

I had them for a while (ptsd stuff)... .now I realize when they are coming on and I take action to moderate things.

Feeling like you are "out of control"... .or "along for the ride"... .while the panic takes over... .really... .really sucks.  (at least... that was what it felt like for me)

I've been to a couple different Ps (due to moves) and also had a Psychologist do some evaluations (all over course of several years).  I liked how a P can talk through different ways an issue can be treated... .and side effects of drugs... .and which treatments have what amounts of success.

I ended up using prazosin to help improve sleep... .it's actually a blood pressure drug that has a side effect of helping PTSD... .so you had to be easy getting out of bed in morning... .because pressure is low.

Long winded way of saying... .you need to get to be healthy... get your energy levels up... .and I think you will once again enjoy your r/s.

I'm glad you waited until he reached out... .   

FF

[Daniell85]

I have a lot of sleep disturbance and have for most of my life. Sometimes wake up from terrible dreams, shocked and shaking. I haven't had one of those in the last few weeks, though. I can't remember the last time I slept through the night.

That being said, thanks for sharing your experience with PTSD and what helped you. I will discuss with my therapist when I see her next week. I think I will see a P. It's hard for me to do it, because I feel like *I* am the Problem.   Maybe I am.

Boyfriend seems to be percolating along, happy enough. From what I see from social sites, ( and he knows I am there) he is involved with some stuff with friends (airsoft events) and is feeling positive about that. I am happy for him, it really helps his life perspective.

He has not unblocked me on facebook. I don't plan to say anything about it for now. I feel some strong hurt and resentment about it. I understand in my head the BPD aspect of that, but on an emotional level I feel just anhillated. It's happened so many times and each time it has stolen more of my voice, self esteem, willingness to keep myself open to him. Right or wrong, at this point I am reduced to silence and a sense of disgust and ... anger. The kind of anger that when you express it comes out with hot tears and telling someone to go eff themselves and to drop off the face of the earth and never appear again.

It's how I feel. He makes himself fully available on Skype now. I know he knows I am upset and is trying to "support" me. I am too cynical and lacking in trust to initiate any conversation, though. I used to chatter at him all the time, and he loves it, even if he doesn't have a lot to say. I just feel though, there is nothing about me that he finds good enough not to throw me out if he gets mad. Block me, toss me away.

I wish it had never gotten to this point. I wish it were all ok. I am willing to learn here for myself to get well and have some understanding, but I am afraid it's too late to save my feelings for him. I actually hate him sometimes for what he has done to me. I am sitting here destroyed and he is happily playing shooting games in the woods with hundreds of people.

I feel deeply depressed. I saw somewhere that depression is suppressed anger. So ok, I am angry. Too angry to feel good about the "progress".

What do I do with that anger?

[formflier]

 

because I feel like *I* am the Problem.   Maybe I am.

Language matters.  Instead of trying to find "THE" problem... .focus on "a" problem.  Work on it.  Sleep disturbances affect the rest of your life... .it's a big... .BIG handicap. 

Address that first... .address things you can do about it... .keep the power with you.

What do I do with that anger?

Feel it... .acknowledge it... .and then you have to decide if you are going to let it go... .or not.

The other person doesn't have to ask for forgiveness... .for you to forgive them.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean you will allow them to continue to do mean/abusive things to you... .

Forgiving it hard... .but it's worth it...

FF

[Daniell85]

I guess he is in for a bit of a wait, then. I forgave a lot of things early on, and he seemingly viewed it as permission to walk all over me even more.

I actually was so astonished, I didn't know what to do and attempted repeatedly to discuss the why of his actions. I was brutalized. And too silly to remove myself because I couldn't figure out why he thought saying sorry and then doing 10 times more of it was a logical course of action.

I am doubtful he has changed his perspective of that at this point completely. If he had changed his perspective that he is ok on all of the emotional and mental abuse he has directed at me, I kind of feel that the blocking wouldn't be continuing. It just feels that all of it is projected on me, and that he will do it over and over. I am extremely angry about the blocking and ST. As a result, I am not talking to him or trying to make things all better.

He wanted to take extreme action, I feel that maybe he can enjoy the results of it, even after his own feelings are changing. AGAIN. ugh.

I guess I am being really negative. Maybe you are right and I just need to feel it in order to get over it.

[formflier]

I guess he is in for a bit of a wait, then. I forgave a lot of things early on, and he seemingly viewed it as permission to walk all over me even more.

I actually was so astonished, I didn't know what to do and attempted repeatedly to discuss the why of his actions. I was brutalized. 

Hey... .none of this seems like forgiveness to me. 

Please read... .and read again this lesson. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=58084.0

I'm interested in what you think after reading it.

Also... .I think you need to think about two very different issues.

Boundaries and forgiveness. 

They are two separate things... .  Forgiveness has nothing to do with whether you let him do things to you in the future... .that belongs to boundaries.

You can set up boundaries... .and choose not to forgive someone.

Of course... .hopefully you can do both.

Looking forward to reading your insights on the forgiveness lesson.

FF

[Daniell85]

I didn't try to talk to him about what he did until he did more of it.

I lacked understanding, was being co dependent and had no boundries. I didn't understand boundries are what I will do if he does something.

I saw boundries as ultimatums. As informing him I would do A if he did B. That went over pretty badly. I understand boundries better now. I need more work on that.

I am definitely not in a state of forgiveness right now. Anger at him and anger at my own self is all mixed together.

I don't see any point in asking him to explain any of his actions now. He does what he does because it's what he feels like doing. And what he feels is coming from the mystical sparkling BS scented cloud of BPD. Asking him is literally not worth upsetting my own self any more than I am already upset.

Will read through the lesson you linked. Maybe something will click for me. I will get back a response later today after I read it and think on it.

[formflier]

I didn't try to talk to him about what he did until he did more of it.

Daniell85,

These posts help you sort out your stuff... .they also can help others that have similar issues... .work through them.  Some come here and read... .but for various reasons... .don't post much.

So... .keep that in mind as I ask questions... and we go back and forth.

With that in mind... .good time to let everyone know how talking to him about this stuff worked out? 

I lacked understanding, was being co dependent and had no boundries. I didn't understand boundries are what I will do if he does something.

This is a better explanation of boundaries (good better best)... .I can tell you are catching on... .this will serve you well.  Remember to be consistent... .

Do you remember why inconsistent boundaries are bad?  Actually worse than no boundaries... .

To get to best (IMO)... .drop him from the picture all together.  You have self worth... .boundaries protect that.  So... .a boundary is... ."I don't listen to abusive things said to me... ."  Random person in store says abusive things... .you take your ears elsewhere.  Family member... .(good by ears... .they are going for walk... )... .Your SO says bad stuff... .you continue to uphold your values and take ears elsewhere.

It's about you... .not him. 

I saw boundries as ultimatums. As informing him I would do A if he did B. That went over pretty badly. I understand boundries better now. I need more work on that.

Wonderful explanation of how you used to look at boundaries.  There is a hint of "one time event" to that.  Much better to see boundaries as the way you live your life... .

I am definitely not in a state of forgiveness right now. Anger at him and anger at my own self is all mixed together.

Yeah... .this is normal.   Don't rush through this.  It's ok to be angry.  Don't hide it... don't stuff it... .feel your anger.  Then... figure out where to direct it.  Emotions are like "warning lights" in an airplane.  They tell you to pay attention to something.  Eventually... .you are going to have some decisions to make.

I don't see any point in asking him to explain any of his actions now. He does what he does because it's what he feels like doing. And what he feels is coming from the mystical sparkling BS scented cloud of BPD. Asking him is literally not worth upsetting my own self any more than I am already upset.

Eventually it will come up.  Avoid why... .  Try on "help me understand what you are communicating to me when (fill in blank).  Very important to be even and neutral when saying this.

Why is for the courtroom and lawyers... .not intimate r/s.

Will read through the lesson you linked. Maybe something will click for me. I will get back a response later today after I read it and think on it.

Keep reading... you will know when you are ready... .it may be a while. 

Forgiveness is hard work... .

FF

[vortex of confusion]

I am a bit late to the discussion. I have a couple of thoughts about all of this.

First, it is okay to be angry. It is even okay to say things like, "You know what, I hate my partner right now." This is something that I have been working on with my kids lately. I have been encouraging them to be upset. The only caveat is that feeling angry, upset, hateful, or any other negative emotion is not a license to be a jerk. If you are angry, talk about it. Don't try to talk yourself out of your feelings. I have done that for a really long time. I would be angry and upset with my husband and would then try to talk myself out of it. I would tell myself that I shouldn't be angry because he has it worse or something along those lines. I have every right to be angry and so do you. The person that you love has treated you like crap.

Second, I have a different take on forgiveness. I have done a lot of reading about forgiveness because everybody told me that my life would be so much better if I could forgive. I have chosen NOT to forgive at this time. Here is an interesting article about situations when a person might choose not to forgive: https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199907/must-you-forgive

Will there be a day when I choose to forgive my husband? Possibly. But it is going to be at my pace rather than his. It is going to be because I feel like I have adequately processed the events that have happened. I am not going to do it because that is what is expected of me and because it will some kind of magical cure to make things better.

Also, it helps to detach from the outcome. In other words, work on YOU without worrying about how your partner will or won't react. Have you thought about blocking him on FB so that you don't have to worry about whether or not he has you blocked? It seems like a bit tit for tat. If you are doing it to make FB a safe place for you, then it is okay. You have essentially cut off a potential outlet to keep yourself from becoming too isolated so that you can avoid seeing whether or not he has you blocked. What about all of the other friends that you have on FB? I find it helpful to find ways to open my world up rather than shut it down.

What do you do when you have a panic attack or anxiety? Can you do some research to help you find some tools to help you through them while you are waiting to see the therapist?

You mentioned your impulses to talk to him or check on him. There is something called urge surfing that I recently found out about. It is meant for addicts but I think some of the stuff mentioned might help you to deal with those impulses. Here is an article about it: www.mindfulness.org.au/urge-surfing-relapse-prevention/

[Daniell85]

 I will report back to the Team how it goes when you try to talk to your BPD partner about why they are doing crappy things.

First, you never get to the point where they actually and thoughtfully reply as to why they are doing crappy things. Because what they heard you *really* say is explain to me why YOU are so crappy

They don't have an answer to that. Likely this sets off an existential train of thought that bubbles and curls over itself and the asker gets an associated existential burst

You called me crap.

You hate me.

I hate you.

I am NOT going to answer such a stupid attack on me. In fact I am just going to attack you BACK

Silent treatment.

BLOCKING.

Rage.

I am TIRED of being called crap.

If you think I am good, stay. If you think I am crap LEAVE.

*huff huff huff going to blow your life down!

Skip over the crap part. Make a boundry to your own self. Telling your BPD person draws a line in the sand that they just have to cross over. Like a little kid cussing "Johnny don't cuss in church or I will spank you!" Then he not only cusses in church, he cusses at school, at the grocery store. He sneaks off with a short skirted girl and a cigarette and cusses down by the river. In a van.

This is why boundries are a private plan in advance for the boundry maker. Boundries are based on my own (your own) personal values.

So I am afraid Johnny is going to cuss in church. If he cusses in church, I sit in a different pew. If he cusses at the grocery store, I pick a time where I can go alone. If he cusses down by the river, I don't wear a short skirt and sit in a van smoking with him.

After a while, he starts to realize that under his preferred conditions of cussing, I do not participate. If he wants to hang out with me, he minds his manners because he realizes if he cusses, it won't be with me.

The boundries inconsistently enforced tap into the psychological concept of how intermittent reinforcement build addictive behaviors. (gambling, pigeon food) If he pecks at me enough, eventually I will cave and he gets what he wants. If I remove myself from his presence every time he starts, he will realize that attempting to run over my boundries means he has empty air to pester because I am not there.

I tried the "help me understand".  He gets nasty. He has told me "I don't explain myself to women."  What can you say to that? I said I am not just any woman, and when he asks me a question, I answer.

He has a trait of withholding common everyday things. It's infuriating. Things I never even thought about being withheld in past relationships. These things were just there.

I don't even know what forgiveness is anymore. My family has hurt me a lot. There are a number of them that I have about zero intention of really trying to have a relationship with. I am not interested in revenge or harming them. In fact, I am glad when they are happy. However, I avoid them. Because of how they have treated me. And I know if I am open emotionally, I will get hurt by them over and over. So they get my courtesy and willingness to help if they are in trouble, and otherwise I am simply absent.

Is that forgiveness?

Regarding my boyfriend, I don't want to hurt him. No thoughts of revenge. I am angry at him, though. Most of the time I have known him, I swallowed the anger, the pain. If I was taken by surprise by something toxic, I had a panic attack. He made it worse.

Now I am sitting here just not wanting to open myself to someone who is willing to cut me as deeply as he can when he gets angry. I am sad to say that I am doubtful of intimacy with him as a result. You wouldn't believe the amount of "counter attacks" I have gotten form having panic attacks, anxiety issues, other people told I am mentally ill, etc.

I guess I am allowing myself to feel the latest rejection fully. 6 weeks of silent treatment, continued blocking, someone who clearly crossed the line and hasn't apologized and who feels entitled to keep up the punishment he feels I deserve by keeping up the blocking. I am mainly thinking rudely to him, well eff you too. See if I put myself out this time trying to coddle you into being decent to me.

If that is tit for tat, I don't know. I didn't block him back, I never have, except sometimes when I am having problems tolerating looking at him, I log out of Skype for a day or something.

I am choosing not to forgive him right now. I have no intention of even trying it right now. I read the lesson on forgiveness, I read the links from Vortex. For me, I think I need a period of quiet and healing, then later when I feel better, probably I will be in a better frame of mind about forgiveness. He has tried to bully it out of me and threatened to leave if he isn't forgiven. Well he can. He can just pick his BPD butt up and take it elsewhere. I am tired of the intimidation and refuse to participate in it anymore by being so scared all the time he is gone.

He would get a lot further with me at this point if all of that stopped. I am having a hard time remembering the good parts right now.

Regarding the urge surfing... I think that has gotten me into a lot of trouble. If I look at him a lot I can get really angry and depressed. I am getting better about picking myself up and going and doing something else. Learning that I do actually feel much better if I do.

Thanks for your insights and thoughts!