Practical advice on Push/Pull?

[Infern0]

Seems to be that push/pull is one of the main problems in BPD relationships.

is there any further reading available on understanding this dynamic, and how to appropriately respond?

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[mindwise]

Hi Infern0,

I haven't read books on push/pull but as you know it's linked with fear (intimacy, abandonment, engulfment), immaturity (dealing with commitments, responsibilities, etc), bad coping habits (behaviors), and co-dependency.

Push/pull dynamics can be very draining and it's not a good place to be in the long term.

What works best with my BPDgf is if I stay centered at all times. When she pulls in I stay centered, when she pushes away I stay centered.

In practice: When she pulls in, I'm not all over her. When she pushes away, I let her know I'm OK with her needing space and that I'll be there when she is ready to get together again.

By being centered you remain in control of your emotions and this helps a lot when communicating with your partner. We have been making lots of progress recently, bringing awareness and stability into everyday life and reducing the "push" drastically.

This is just my personal experience, every couple is different.

Good luck,

mw

[whitebackatcha]

In practice: When she pulls in, I'm not all over her. When she pushes away, I let her know I'm OK with her needing space and that I'll be there when she is ready to get together again.

Any thoughts on how this might feel like the relationship is less rewarding because you aren't willing to be intense anymore even when things are good?

[mindwise]

Oh believe me, the relationship is rewarding and we share very intense moments But there's space in my head to also remain balanced and awake because I know how BPD affects her. It's like accepting weather changes. I love sunny days but rainy days will come too. So I go out on sunny days and I also go out on rainy days

"I'm not all over her" = I don't become her puppy, or act needy. I live to the fullest but don't get lost. I stay centered.

[waverider]

In practice: When she pulls in, I'm not all over her. When she pushes away, I let her know I'm OK with her needing space and that I'll be there when she is ready to get together again.

Any thoughts on how this might feel like the relationship is less rewarding because you aren't willing to be intense anymore even when things are good?

Following the push/ pull is party due to wishful thinking. So any reward is based on delusion, and that delusion bubble will ultimately be popped, and any reward will feel like having been cheated.

Staying centered is only possible when you have a better overview on the disorder in general. This is in itself is gratifying and rewarding. Like everything once we feel good within ourselves we find it easier to see the real good in others behind the facade we are often presented with.

Reward based on reality is longer lasting

[MaroonLiquid]

Oh believe me, the relationship is rewarding and we share very intense moments But there's space in my head to also remain balanced and awake because I know how BPD affects her. It's like accepting weather changes. I love sunny days but rainy days will come too. So I go out on sunny days and I also go out on rainy days

"I'm not all over her" = I don't become her puppy, or act needy. I live to the fullest but don't get lost. I stay centered.

    I concur with mindwise here.  Over a week ago, I stayed centered.  My wife tried to trigger me to start a fight before the weekend.  I didn't take the bait and made sure not to respond.  She contacted me about a day later and asked if I wanted to go see a movie.  We went and had a great time.  We held hands, kissed and went back to her house.  The kids were gone for the weekend so we watched some TV.  I wasn't all over her and continued to stay centered and just held hands.  About an hour later, she asked me to stay the night with her and I did.  We ended up having one of the most intimate, close nights we ever had in over a year.  We spent most of the next day together also and had a great time.  That night, I went back to my apartment and as I was leaving her house, I noticed she had that "hug" that let me know she was pulling back and so I let her.  I understood two things there, she was detaching from her emotion toward me and from the weekend we had.  We didn't talk much last week at all.  She texted me Saturday about the computer running slow (I felt she was grasping for something to start a convo) and told her I would her take care of it and to call me when she would like me to come over.  I haven't heard from her since.  I think she was looking to know that I was still there.

     Just remain calm and centered.  I feel like what they are looking for in the push/pull is not what they want, but what they are used to.  The unhealthy part of them wants you to "need them", "long for them" and "fight" with them.  It's what they are used to, it gives them power and keeps them in control.  That's not what the healthy part of them wants.  They need someone that is a calm and steady influence that they can count on that keeps control.

[mindwise]

... .I wasn't all over her and continued to stay centered and just held hands.  About an hour later, she asked me to stay the night with her and I did.  We ended up having one of the most intimate, close nights we ever had in over a year.  We spent most of the next day together also and had a great time.

Excellent it seems like your centerdeness made her feel comfortable enough to seek intimacy.

That night, I went back to my apartment and as I was leaving her house, I noticed she had that "hug" that let me know she was pulling back and so I let her.  I understood two things there, she was detaching from her emotion toward me and from the weekend we had.

 

I've been there too. You did good, the best option is to remain unaffected by these mood changes, acknowledge it's a BPD moment and stay calm and centered.  

We didn't talk much last week at all.  She texted me Saturday about the computer running slow (I felt she was grasping for something to start a convo)... .I think she was looking to know that I was still there... .

Absolutely. She wanted to feel your presence.

Just remain calm and centered.  I feel like what they are looking for in the push/pull is not what they want, but what they are used to.  The unhealthy part of them wants you to "need them", "long for them" and "fight" with them.  It's what they are used to, it gives them power and keeps them in control.  That's not what the healthy part of them wants.  They need someone that is a calm and steady influence that they can count on that keeps control.

Interesting. My BPDgf tells me she is familiar with instability and chaos since childhood. That's her comfort zone, but as she gains awareness and strives to get better, she appreciates more and more a healthier environment.  

[mindwise]

Staying centered is only possible when you have a better overview on the disorder in general.

I agree

[Infern0]

Do any of you have partner who sometimes won't respond to a text message?

At the moment that's what is happening,  she'll go off the radar for a few days and I don't bomb her with messages just one or two short nice ones but no response.

Any insight?

[formflier]

Do any of you have partner who sometimes won't respond to a text message?

At the moment that's what is happening,  she'll go off the radar for a few days and I don't bomb her with messages just one or two short nice ones but no response.

Any insight?

Yep... .she either didn't get them (unlikely)... .or doesn't want to respond.

I wouldn't bring it up... it is what it is.

Great job not text bombing... .   Send a nice thought or two... .and drop it.

I rarely text my wife anymore about feelings or r/s issues.  90% of texting is grocery list and things like that.

I sent some "feeling" stuff today to her... shortly after we had a nice talk on phone... .no response.  Her choice... .I don't feel bad about it at all... .I did feel good about saying it... .sending it.

FF

[Infern0]

Do any of you have partner who sometimes won't respond to a text message?

At the moment that's what is happening,  she'll go off the radar for a few days and I don't bomb her with messages just one or two short nice ones but no response.

Any insight?

Yep... .she either didn't get them (unlikely)... .or doesn't want to respond.

I wouldn't bring it up... it is what it is.

Great job not text bombing... .   Send a nice thought or two... .and drop it.

I rarely text my wife anymore about feelings or r/s issues.  90% of texting is grocery list and things like that.

I sent some "feeling" stuff today to her... shortly after we had a nice talk on phone... .no response.  Her choice... .I don't feel bad about it at all... .I did feel good about saying it... .sending it.

FF

Well the difficulty for me is that we don't see each other much at the moment, if we do its just for lunch or a quick visit,  obviously I've tried to set dates with no success.

So it's mostly text based with some calls,  Last week she showed some progress admitting that she is self sabotaging her own happiness by stalling our relationship,   I hoped this would open the door for further dialogue but then she went silent.

I'm in my 20s, I am not married to her and don't have kids and I'm tired. I had a crap weekend because I struggle to focus on other things with this being so confusing.

I want this to work but I don't know if it's possible at all. I guess I'll try and stay patient

[formflier]

I want this to work but I don't know if it's possible at all. I guess I'll try and stay patient

It's up to you to figure out how patient you want to be.

General theory is for you to figure out a life that you like and enjoy... .and do that life.  Invite her along... .if she chooses to come... .great... .if not... .you are doing something that you like and enjoy.

Take a hard look at how you present yourself on phone calls and texts.  It is possible that she is pulling away... .and you are chasing (not your perception... but hers... .) 

Anyway... .when they pull away... .chasing is rarely a good idea.  Tends to make the run more. 

Hence... .the advice to live your life and enjoy it... .  Once she realizes that she isn't being chased... .it is very possible that she will start to "pull" you in... .and chase you. 

Thoughts?  Do you see any of these patterns?

FF

[Infern0]

I want this to work but I don't know if it's possible at all. I guess I'll try and stay patient

It's up to you to figure out how patient you want to be.

General theory is for you to figure out a life that you like and enjoy... .and do that life.  Invite her along... .if she chooses to come... .great... .if not... .you are doing something that you like and enjoy.

Take a hard look at how you present yourself on phone calls and texts.  It is possible that she is pulling away... .and you are chasing (not your perception... but hers... .) 

Anyway... .when they pull away... .chasing is rarely a good idea.  Tends to make the run more. 

Hence... .the advice to live your life and enjoy it... .  Once she realizes that she isn't being chased... .it is very possible that she will start to "pull" you in... .and chase you. 

Thoughts?  Do you see any of these patterns?

FF

Yes I certainly understand what you are saying.

The pattern usually goes:

She reaches out saying she misses me

I reply in kind

Slowly we start to talk again

She wants to see me so we meet

She's all shy and timid, we kiss she says how she misses me is sorry etc

Then she backs off so I let her go

Then she stays on the edge, reaching out saying she misses me but won't put any forward momentum in,  no dates no hanging out just texts and calls every few days and occasionally a lunch

I lose patience and tell her I need to move on and live my life

NC

Month goes by

Back to square one she texts that she misses me.

[Infern0]

A lot of things go through my head.

Is this just the BPD getting in the way of intimacy?

Or am I being used for an ego boost etc.

If it's the latter I want out.

[formflier]

She wants to see me so we meet

This is where you need to make changes.

She wants to meet... .stay at that point for a while.  Remember... .you have a busy and fulfilling life.  So... you fit her in... after a week or so...

Then... have relaxing date... .don't talk about the r/s.  ":)o" the r/s... don't talk about it.

Wish her a good night... .

Repeat a week or so later... .

Maybe give her kiss after couple of weeks... .make sure it is on mutual terms... .not just because she gave you the "signal".  it's ok for her to wait to kiss you when you are ready.  

Slooww it down... .


Back off texts and phone calls... .more talk in person... .but not about the r/s... very little talk about "status".

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

A lot of things go through my head.

Is this just the BPD getting in the way of intimacy?

Or am I being used for an ego boost etc.

If it's the latter I want out.

No way to tell... best not to try and figure it out.

Don't "think" about the r/s... ."do" it.  Enjoy each other... .go to park and talk about how much fun it is to through Frisbee together... .don't morph into a big discussion on "the r/s"

Just... ."I enjoy being with you and doing this activity... ."

FF

[whitebackatcha]

Oh believe me, the relationship is rewarding and we share very intense moments But there's space in my head to also remain balanced and awake because I know how BPD affects her. It's like accepting weather changes. I love sunny days but rainy days will come too. So I go out on sunny days and I also go out on rainy days

"I'm not all over her" = I don't become her puppy, or act needy. I live to the fullest but don't get lost. I stay centered.

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

[whitebackatcha]

Following the push/ pull is party due to wishful thinking. So any reward is based on delusion, and that delusion bubble will ultimately be popped, and any reward will feel like having been cheated.

Staying centered is only possible when you have a better overview on the disorder in general. This is in itself is gratifying and rewarding. Like everything once we feel good within ourselves we find it easier to see the real good in others behind the facade we are often presented with.

Reward based on reality is longer lasting

Really good points, thank you.

[Infern0]

A lot of things go through my head.

Is this just the BPD getting in the way of intimacy?

Or am I being used for an ego boost etc.

If it's the latter I want out.

No way to tell... best not to try and figure it out.

Don't "think" about the r/s... ."do" it.  Enjoy each other... .go to park and talk about how much fun it is to through Frisbee together... .don't morph into a big discussion on "the r/s"



Just... ."I enjoy being with you and doing this activity... ."

FF

I 100% get what you are saying, when BPD texts me i tell her "we should just go out and have fun" it doesn't happen. She always makes an excuse or if we plan something i get a cancellation from her for various reasons, she admitted to doing this in self sabotage at least. So I just said well when you are ready let me know,without getting frustrated

Well this time in the cycle it's early on in so i'm just trying to stay centered, at least not showing any sign of frustration to her, and see if that patience and giving her plenty of time and space will lead somewhere. it's my only course of action.

[waverider]

To keep you dangling like this is partly to appease her abandonment fears, to retain control, and validate her self worth.

You are her rock, but are not allowed to have any control over her. She fears loss of control, which can lead to exposure (in her perception). A pwBPDs biggest fear

[Infern0]

To keep you dangling like this is partly to appease her abandonment fears, to retain control, and validate her self worth.

You are her rock, but are not allowed to have any control over her. She fears loss of control, which can lead to exposure (in her perception). A pwBPDs biggest fear

Right so what do i do about that then?

[formflier]

when BPD texts me i tell her "we should just go out and have fun" it doesn't happen. 

Remember... .less is more.

I suspect you need to cut down on the text communication... .agree to meet... .then drop it.

Rather than meet... .let's do xyz... just have fun... .miss you a bunch... etc etc.

You want to take it to the place where if she wants communication from you... .that happens in person.

Don't try to "make a deal" with her first about what to do.  Just agree to meet for few hours.

Then... .when you meet... .have fun.  If she wants to talk about r/s... .make it about you when you decline... .not her fault... .maybe next time... .

We will never figure out exactly what she is "getting" from the text exchanges... .figuring that out is not critical.

What is critical is that you change the dynamic... .if you want the r/s to change.

FF