The moment you should have left

[SummerStorm]

We've all discussed what made us stay and what the final straw was, but when you look back on the time with your exBPD, when should you have left?  What about that moment made you stay?

I actually have two, one when we were just friends and one after.

1. When she said she's a bad person and that I should stay away from her because she will destroy me.

I stayed because she was struggling with depression and was cutting again, and I just saw this as her feeling really bad about herself.  She had also not done anything to me that proved what she was saying.

2. When she revealed a huge lie that changed everything and when I asked her why she lied, she said, "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

I stayed because she told me this in the hospital, a few days after trying to commit suicide and after being diagnosed with BPD.  I didn't know much about BPD yet, and I stupidly thought that everything was going to get better.

[Schermarhorn]

We've all discussed what made us stay and what the final straw was, but when you look back on the time with your exBPD, when should you have left?  What about that moment made you stay?

I actually have two, one when we were just friends and one after.

1. When she said she's a bad person and that I should stay away from her because she will destroy me.

I stayed because she was struggling with depression and was cutting again, and I just saw this as her feeling really bad about herself.  She had also not done anything to me that proved what she was saying.

2. When she revealed a huge lie that changed everything and when I asked her why she lied, she said, "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

I stayed because she told me this in the hospital, a few days after trying to commit suicide and after being diagnosed with BPD.  I didn't know much about BPD yet, and I stupidly thought that everything was going to get better.

2 weeks after I met her. She told me the day before she really liked me. The next day she tells me she never wants to see me again and starts listing off all my flaws for no reason.

[klacey3]

Good thread idea summerstorm... I was thinking of this earlier actually.

I have many!

-

8 months in when I found out he had been on a dating site and told his female friend he was attracted to her and didnt like the thought of her with anyone else.

- 10 months in when he told me on christmas day he didnt want to see him anymore when I asked if it was still ok if i come over (he said i was starting an argument) and he cancelled last minute on nee years eve becausd he freaked out on what to wear and said i was pressuring him and guilt tripping him when I told him I might dress up but he can wear what he wants.

- when he told me 2 people have falsely accused him of rape and that 6 months is the longest he has been monogomaus with a girl

- every time he threatened to join a dating site or meet his ex if I said something that annoyed him or i didnt do as he told me

15 months is was when I cut him off completely. That was when he accused me of lying about a family member having cancer and threatening to 'f***  me up mentally' if i ignored him

[antelope]

when she said 'I love you' after 2 months together

[butterfly 27]

Hi 

When I met my ex BPD we got good friends and she was honest with me saying she was diagnosed BPD since he was 15 years old, at the beginning I did not mind this because I believed in what she said that in her other relationships their partners did not treat her well and did not care about her feelings, well, there were several red flags    but I wanted to "save" her, I wanted to give the love that she said she never felt before  . Now that she break up with me,  I know she tells others the same thing as what she said to me and now I'm the one who treated her badly and did not care about her feelings.

[Michelle27]

There were so many. When he told me he was mean to my daughter from my first marriage because his son from his first marriage was "damaged" and he needed to even it up. WOW when I put that in print it looks so insane. I think I stayed because I believed I could teach him a better way.  

[klacey3]

There were so many. When he told me he was mean to my daughter from my first marriage because his son from his first marriage was "damaged" and he needed to even it up. WOW when I put that in print it looks so insane. I think I stayed because I believed I could teach him a better way.  

It is insane, but we have all been there! You were obviously in the FOG of crazy making back then. I hope your daughter did not suffer.

My ex told me he has been falsely accused of rape twice and even told me the girls names. He told me he got back together with one of them after i broke up with him and one of them is his friend on facebook! I dont know whats sicker... if he really had been accused and is still in contact with these women who could accuse him of it, or if it is all a lie!

So I can understand the shock of realising what you put up with.

[EaglesJuju]

For me, there have many times where I can retrospectively go back and think about the red flags and why I should have left.  That decision was all based on my thoughts and behaviors.

The behavior of a pwBPD can affect us. The behaviors can be very hurtful and painful.  

Once I started thinking about why my pwBPD's behavior really affected me, it opened up quite a bit of self-awareness.

I have considered what would have happened if I would have left after the first suicide attempt. Would my hurt and pain been lessened?  I do not have that answer and honestly I will never know.  

When we start thinking with 'should haves' and 'oughts' many times we end up feeling guilty and hard on ourselves.

Do you feel this way SummerStorm?

[rotiroti]

I had an opportunity to recognize the endless flags throughout the 8 years of friendship -- tumultuous relationships, substance abuse, impulsivity, and warning me of herself. However, all I saw as a young man was the excitement and beauty. She was charming, had tattoos, and dressed provocatively. Everyone talked about how exciting and wild she was. In private settings she would reveal her broken side and it really triggered my caretaker response. Over the years we kept idolizing each other.

I should have left way before this happened instead of getting romantically involved

As i'm healing I'm noticing that deep down she was not going to change and that a stable relationship was not going to work out, but I overlooked my instinct and the warning signs.

As soon as my suspicions came to light with the first fight, I was out of there.

[Pretty Woman]

The week after I met my ex. We weren't even dating yet and went to a festival... .her, my grandmother and my friend.

Afterwards she told me she cried when we left. She thought she'd never see us again.

That always struck me as odd. I didn't know about object consistancy nor did I know about BPD at the time. I felt bad for her... .It sounded so sad like she had no friends.

Little did I realize it was so much more than that.

PW

[Mutt]

 Hi SummerStorm,

The thought of leaving had come to my mind several times due to the frustration with not understanding my ex wife's behaviors. I had stayed at the time because I was married with kids and I thought that was the best thing to do for the sake of the kids. I learned a lesson with this experience that we make the best choices with what we know.

I didn't know much about BPD yet, and I stupidly thought that everything was going to get better.

I think that it's difficult to detect a personality disorder and we're not doctors or professionals. I understand how important boundaries are, it is an outward layer that protects my morales and values. It keeps the good stuff in and the bad stuff out.

If I was to date someone that may suffer from a PD, the push / pull behavior against my boundaries should set alarm bells off and I now I know to trust my intuition.

[Mr Hollande]

In October 2009 I took her along to a festival my band had been invited to play. At the after party I got quite drunk and fell asleep. I remember seeing her chatting to some sleazy guy at a table and I was a confused as to why she was giving a scumbag like him the time of day and even more by how seductive she seemed. I was too drunk and worn out to intervene and I fell asleep.

Next thing I know I wake up by her sobbing and clutching me with him next to her. It turned out she'd had sex with him in the toilet and now she was distraught. This was 7-8 months into our relationship and while I should have bid her an eternal farewell the day after I let it drag on for another sorry four and a half years. I would have saved myself a lot of hassle, worry and pain.

[Popcorn71]

Wow - this made me think!

I should have left when he first tried to chat me up.  He forcefully put his business card in my handbag after I refused his invitation for a night out.  I called him because family members pressured me to.  I should have listened to my gut instinct.

The next time I should have left the relationship was a few days later, when he tried to buy me a car just because I mentioned that I was thinking of getting a new one!

After that there were many more times that I should have left the relationship.  I definitely should have left a few months later when he raged in the middle of the night.  He called me terrible names and told me that I was not capable of loving anyone, even my mother.  It was all projection.  I knew at that point that there was something very wrong with him, but for some reason, I stayed with him.  I wish I hadn't!

[Remiman]

In October 2009 I took her along to a festival my band had been invited to play. At the after party I got quite drunk and fell asleep. I remember seeing her chatting to some sleazy guy at a table and I was a confused as to why she was giving a scumbag like him the time of day and even more by how seductive she seemed. I was too drunk and worn out to intervene and I fell asleep.

Next thing I know I wake up by her sobbing and clutching me with him next to her. It turned out she'd had sex with him in the toilet and now she was distraught. This was 7-8 months into our relationship and while I should have bid her an eternal farewell the day after I let it drag on for another sorry four and a half years. I would have saved myself a lot of hassle, worry and pain.

Ouch - this one actually made me feel sick. Triggered some fears of mine I think

[Pretty Woman]

This is where I meant to post... .not as a NEW post. Skip just copied my post from 2013 and posted under it. I meant to post in this thread, not a new one.

These were things I was told on my first date (see below). Big   

-Got pregnant with older (married) man's baby at 22

-Tells married mans wife she is pregnant by him. Breaks up marriage, breaks up with man and puts baby up for adoption.

-Marries man she meets while pregnant. Marriage lasts a year. He runs away with no notice for months. Tries to kill himself. She tells me she lost all respect for him after that.

-Dates first actual girlfriend #1

-Hangs out with bad crowd ends up with girlfriend #2 leaving girlfriend #1

-Girlfriend #1 contacts exes father to inform him ex is with bad crowd.

-Meets girlfriend #3 in a bar. This girlfriend (close to 400lbs) according to her, saves her from drugs and detoxes her.

-Leaves girlfriend #3 for girlfriend #1

-Leaves girlfriend #1 for girlfriend #4 for who she meets online in a BDSM chat room.

-Girlfriend #3 and #1 end up dating. My ex races back and "steals" girlfriend #1 back. Never speaks to girlfriend #3 again.

-Somewhere in the middle of all this ex ends up in a poly relationship with a man and wife. Dates wife and actually brings her to her moms 2nd wedding. Is the cause for the marriage to crumble and ends up staying with the husband for a year after the wife leaves.

-Girlfriend #1 and ex move to Oregon.

-Girlfriend #1 and ex break up and girlfriend #1 moves to Michigan, My ex moves in with Girlfriend #4 again.

-Girlfriend #4 dumps ex because she cheated on her with girlfriend #1 who was visiting.

-Ex buys a condo and moves in with Girlfriend #5.

-Girlfriend #5 supposedly rapes my ex. Girlfriend #4 saves my ex. Girlfriend #4 moves back with Ex. During this time exes father has an altercation with girlfriend #4 and pushes her. He also supposedly takes a sledgehammer and destroys all the floors in the house that girlfriend #4 layed. Girlfriend #4 moves out and ex sues her father (who owns the house technically) unsuccessfully.

-Ex sleeps with Girlfriend #1... .again. Cheats on #4.

-Girlfriend #4 breaks up with Ex and enters into a 10yr partnership. This is before a big trip ex is about to go on with ex #4.

-Ex goes on craigslist and meets a woman she takes on the trip (along with this woman's child?) This woman won't speak with her on the trip and ends up not letting her say goodbye to the kid.

-Ex moves to Wisconsin and starts dating Girlfriend #6, a crime scene detective. After a year, Girlfriend #6 dumps ex. (Ex still has pictures of this woman's dog on her FB). Says this woman dumped her because she was fat and all her friends didn't like her. She (my ex) had bought an engagement ring for this woman. She gives it back. Never talks to my ex again.

-Meets Girlfriend #7 from Iowa. They meet in Wisc in a bar. Carry on a 1yr long distance relationship (I know this ex). Not sure if co-currently dating with #8. During the course of this relationship they break up 3x. The 2nd two times ex leaves #7 for ex #1 and ex #4 even though both are taken (thought she would win them back or was using them as an excuse).

-Ex starts dating Girlfriend #8. Ex dates Girlfriend #8 for a year... .fraught with conflict (shocking). This ex is a prison psychiatrist (whom she tells me is a sex addicted stalker whom she has a restraining order against-when I meet her).

-Ex dumps Girlfriend #8 and meets Girlfriend #9.  This is a short relationship (3mo or so). This woman is a pro bodybuilder. Ex uses this woman to move her to IL.

-Ex moves back to IL and meets me.

-Ex tells me her ex #8 was a "stalker"

-Ex is talking to #8 one month into our relationship.

-#8 finds girlfriend and moves to Missouri. Ex starts talking to #4 whose relationship is on the rocks.

-Ex rages at me over something really stupid. Scares me. I tell her I don't think we should be together. Ex cries and begs me to stay with her so I recant.

-Ex leaves me for a week because I am unsure of being in this relationship. Blocks my phone number so I can't call her. We cannot communicate at all. She won't even listen to me, Week of Halloween. Comes back to me a week later.

-A day before my friend's party ex picks fight with me. Keeps me on phone for two hours day of party crying and angry at me. I arrive to my friend's house late. This is December. Ex returns two days before Christmas.

-Ex and I go away for NYE.  On NYD ex dumps me. Ex returns before Valentine's Day.

-Ex's ex #4 comes to town to visit in early April. I meet her. 

-In late May I want to reschedule dinner plans for another day with my ex because something bad happened at work. Ex tells me "this is ridiculous. we are over".   

-Ex ends up making plans to see her Ex#4. Goes from wanting to be friends with me to threatening a restraining order. Tells me she wants no relationship with me, friend or romantic and to not contact her or she will call the police.

-Ex says #4 is her new girlfriend. Returns two months later calling me 50+ times on the way back. I stupidly take her back.

-Due to lack of trust I start seeing ex less and planning more activities with friends. Ex mentions a mutual friend of ours she thinks likes her and would be interested if we were not together. Red flags!. I think my ex needs more friends so I am happy they are hanging out (dumb me).

-Ex#4  starts a new relationship with a woman. Talks to my ex less now that she has been burned... .years later.

-Ex dumps me for new girlfriend #10 and ceases all communication with me.

-Ex contacts me in January with a really lame email hook I fall for. Turns out she was in the hospital since Dec. Blew a disk in her back out. Turns out girlfriend #10 never visited her in the hospital. She never apologizes for leaving me... .but I'm sucked back in. Turns out she was also online chatting with a woman with Herpes during this time.

-I am in another relationship at this time and end up cheating with my ex (not my proudest moment). I date them both til June 2014, when my now ex calls the other woman and tells her I have been cheating on her for months.

-Ex and I have a fairly stable year. No real fights or rages. I have now pulled away emotionally though (and pretty much sexually). The toll of this relationship has caused me much depression and I feel alone even with her. She moves a mile from me and since August we have a puppy together that lives with her.

-In Dec I have major surgery and my ex takes care of me for two months. In Jan I plan a huge surprise party for my ex (for April). I invite my ex sisters. Both decline with the one I work with threatening to report me to HR for giving her dirty looks at work (a whole other story). I invite her mother who tells me I have poor taste and am a braggart because I am hosting this party at a friends house in a swanky downtown neighborhood.

-All my exes family stress is killing me. Ex is thinking I am going to dump her. I'm starting to think about that now realizing how awful this family is and now my job is threatened.

-Throw a huge birthday party for ex... .mostly my friends but ex #1 is there (she is now with a man) as is the ex from Iowa who is now married to another woman.

-We meet a new girl in May in my meetup group. She seems super nice and I am excited we are becoming friends. Tells me she just got out of a seven year relationship where she was cheated on. Still having trouble getting over it. Find out later this relationship ended in 2007 with them buying a house in 2005 and only living together two years. She tells me she is thinking of also dating men again.

-Ex mentions at an outing this woman is very attractive in our community (gay community) which doesn't go un noticed by me (the comment).

-Ex invites me bowling with her and this girl. I decline as I am trying to get ready for our big trip to Mexico.

-Next day ex says we need to talk. She is not leaving me but maybe we shouldn't date anymore. She is worried about my health since surgery and thinks we are more bffs than GF.

-Ex dumps me a day later. Changes the locks as I'm leaving. Says I can call her and she is "willing to talk" but never sees us together as a couple again. Says she thinks I'm capable of a relationship with someone, just not with her.

Me thinks she is right!

-I talk to the new girl and she actually tells me she wants to stay my friend while she dates my ex (who has convinced her we are only friends nothing more). I pretty much tell this woman where she can go and delete and block them from FB.

-Ex is blowing up Facebook with how much in love she is with this person, now known as #11 (if I throw myself in there).  Has contacted my friends to apologize for the awkwardness because she now wants to integrate this friendless girl into my social circle.

[RisingSun]

When we were on our first vacation together. We'd been dating for about two to three months. We got into an argument in our bungalow on the beach. She got so mad she slammed the medicine cabinet door and the shattered mirror. Of course I cleaned it up. That event set me up for cleaning up her emotional messes for the next 11 years.

Talk about ignoring a red flag!

[disorderedsociety]

When I first went to see her and she was crying and stuff to make me feel bad for her and be with her.

And when, after we broke up, I asked if it was a good idea for us to see each other again, "no that's why it's fun"

[Madison66]

Yeah, for me it was definitely about fifteen months in when we tried couples T for the first time. The T separated us after one session and wanted to work with my ex gf individually. Then, after a few sessions my ex wanted a couples session. During the session, I brought an incident where she was waaaaaaay needy and didn't support me during a stressful time. The T really treated my ex with kit gloves, but she lost it and abandoned T altogether. She also cut off from me for a week and painted me and the T black. The T told me of her assessment that my ex showed strong traits of both BPD and NPD, and advised me to leave the r/s. I didn't listen, kissed my ex' ars and stayed in the r/s for almost two more years. And, things didn't get better! Twenty months removed from the r/s, I now can't believe I stayed. Life is so different now!

[English Sid]

When she said I think I love you on our second night together, shame I knew nothing of BPD then.

[ppb2la]

Probably after the first date when he told me he loved me and would consider marrying me.

Then through 11 break ups in 5 months.

Like many of you on here, I stayed even though I began to realize after a month in that he had NPD and BPD.

I thought my love could fix him. I felt so sorry for all he had gone through in his childhood and adolescence. I wanted to show him what it felt to be really loved and nurtured.

Should have noticed the big  on Day one but chose to ignore it as I was lonely and vulnerable.

[Lostone1314]

1.when i saw the pinup board with all the business cards from men that hit on her

2. when i realised her kid hated me at first sight

3. when i saw the untidy state of her home

4. when she started drinking & partying till wee hours of morning without me ( shes 45 can you believe it !)

5. when i caught her sexting naked pics and bedroom secrets to ex

so many more times

[klacey3]

Probably after the first date when he told me he loved me and would consider marrying me.

Then through 11 break ups in 5 months.

Like many of you on here, I stayed even though I began to realize after a month in that he had NPD and BPD.

I thought my love could fix him. I felt so sorry for all he had gone through in his childhood and adolescence. I wanted to show him what it felt to be really loved and nurtured.

Should have noticed the big  on Day one but chose to ignore it as I was lonely and vulnerable.

I feel for you  

Thats the same way I feel about my ex bf. I too thought I could save him and thought he would be ok if I gave him as much love as possible.

[Gonzalo]

I don't blame myself for missing the subtle signs, especially since I didn't know about BPD. What I dismissed and would take very seriously now is the combination of extreme anger over nothing and taking that anger out on me instead of discussing it. There was one time where she got really mad because the one time she took me out to dinner I ordered a steak dish (even though my steak was actually like a dollar cheaper than the chicken + appetizer she ordered), and another time where she got angry and jealous because I was emailing another woman - even though we were both messing around on PCs emailing/chatting to friends at the time, it was just an amusing story not anything deeply personal, and we were in an open poly relationship so even dating other people should be fine. But the big crowning 'this is where you end things' fight happened when we went to hang out with some friends, and at the end I tried to give her one sentence of directions in case we got separated (Just stay on this highway until this exit, then go north and you'll hit area you recognize) She exploded into nasty anger on the phone, telling me that I was overwhelming her with too much information and didn't respect her mental abilities, and that I had been generally nasty to her all evening, and eventually that she was driving back to her place instead of mine. I talked her down and got her to come back, but I damn well should have gone with my instincts and said 'if our relationship means so little to you that you are driving away, keep driving'.

[GreenEyedMonster]

-When he kept posting on Facebook about his how his ex had wronged him, even though he was in a relationship with me

-When he went on a vacation without me and justified it by saying that he "deserved" to go somewhere I hadn't been, because I was more well-traveled than he was

-When he said I was "childish" for wanting him to come to my events, when I had come to all of his

And the piece de resistance . . .

-When he expressed a desire to hunt his ex as prey

[SGraham]

Well summer stor had a fairly similar experiance.

She (while drunk) said "you don't want a crazy btch like me for a girlfriend because i might kill myself and then you will get hurt".

I stayed, and honestly felt closer to her, because i 1.didnt know she had BPD, i thought it was depression which i have experiance with and 2. Felt like me leaving would make me a terrible person.

Like i said, in all honesty i kinda felt bad for her in such a way that i just cared about her more and wanted to help her. I don't know if that makes me a rescuer but it is what it is.

[janpiet]

When she threw my suitcase outside after 2 weeks together because I didnt want to pay her family for staying in their appartment.

When I didnt want to live together yet, and she threw a plate to my face.

[Turkish]

When we were still "friend dating" she looked out the car window and almost said to herself, "with me, you'll get both heaven and hell." (I got neither).

When she started her push-pull behaviors on our first "official" date, I was angry,.and wanted to tell her to lose my number or not call me. I didn't call or text her, willing to let it go. Yet later that week, she texed if I wanted to go see a movie with her. My intial reaction was anger, and to ignore it. Yet I thought, "give love a chance!" So I went. That was very emotionally immature of me. I was 37, not 17. I knew something was off with her from the beginning which was in large part why I was attracted to her.

[crawler]

Far too many to count here, but the one that really jumps out was when she managed to convince herself of something that I did (yet I didn't) and then she got so angry that she hit me in the face so hard that she made me bleed.

[tbddbt]

There were several moments, but one small thing I'll always remember happened after we moved in together. I got back from the store with the groceries she had told me to get for her.  When she took out the antacids, she threw them at me and went on a rant about how I had no respect for her because I got fruit flavored instead of the "normal" mint flavor.  When I offered to go back and get the mint flavor, she insisted that it was "too late" and that I had "already screwed everything up."

[Gonzalo]

There were several moments, but one small thing I'll always remember happened after we moved in together. I got back from the store with the groceries she had told me to get for her.  When she took out the antacids, she threw them at me and went on a rant about how I had no respect for her because I got fruit flavored instead of the "normal" mint flavor.  When I offered to go back and get the mint flavor, she insisted that it was "too late" and that I had "already screwed everything up."

Groceries seemed to be a thing. She was going to start a new job, and asked me to get some food that she wanted. I had fun going out and getting food, though the grocery app made a couple of things confusing. When I got back, I said that I had to guess on a couple of things, if any of them weren't what she wanted that I could just run to the store 10 minutes up the road. She stewed in silence for a bit, then exploded at me because I got her flavored water instead of fizzy water, and clearly that showed that I don't care. Never mind I was providing her a place to live and buying the food myself, I was clearly selfish and uncaring. Oh, and later when I asked her why she blew up instead of just taking me up on my offer to go back by the store, she said that she didn't believe I would, that it was just a fake offer.

It should have been a nice sweet evening, where I got her some comforting things and braced her for starting a new job. Instead it became just another of the 'why would I put up with that' days.