New here

[HEisable]

How do I even start?  Yikes... .

I have been married for 26 years and have 3 daughters(24,22,19) and 3 grandsons(3,7m,4m).

I love my wife very much but our marriage has always been a struggle.  From about 6 months in I knew that something just didn't add up but I attributed that to learning to be married.  It got really bad after our 2nd daughters birth.  The problems got attributed to me or PMS or depression.  Finally my wife agreed to go in.  She was perscribed prozac.  I would have to say that it was the only thing that keeped us married for the next 10 years.  It didnt solve the issues... .it just took the edge off which was enough to help us through.  Many good times, a few bad times.

Then it seemed to stop working.  She switched medications many times and it just got worse then stopped entirely.  These last 8 years have been pure hell.

4 years ago a marriage councelor recommend I read a book 'Emotionally Destructive Relationships'.  It described a lot about our relationship but I knew there was more.  I read more books that were referenced in her book and then read a book on BPD.  As they say it really 'named my pain'.  I couldnt get enough and read more and more on BPD.  Every book seemed to confirm it.

I had been doing a journal... .it helped me a lot to put in words what happened and how i felt.  As a christian much was written to God.  'Why?' Was a common word.  My wife was at my work to use the internet one day.  She used my computer and started poking around (she is always very suspicious) and found my journal and emailed it to herself.  From that point on every fight was worse.  She would say 'well you think i have BPD.  You think nothing is your problem, you think it is all me and you are perfect'.  Even though the journal was filled with soulsearching for what I could change, how i could love her better.

Life since then borders on untollerable.  That is not to say we dont have good times.  We just got off of 1 year of reasonableness... .  still many struggles, still rages, anger, storming out, demanding i leave, etc... .but we were able to talk through it in a matter of days.  This came off of 2 years where we were continuously bad, separated for up to 9 months at a time (multiple separations).  This last year I started hoping again that we could make it and live a resonably 'normal' life.

Everything came crashing down 2 weeks ago... .  we were having a great family vacation in colorado.  2 of my daughters, my son in law, 1 grandson and my wife.  It wasnt perfect... .  i had to continually work at validating my wifes feelings about how daughters 'acted', how son in law was 'lazy', how our friends were not really 'friends'... .but every time it seemed to go away and we would have fun.

Then the 'event' happened.  Such a small thing!  We went to a flea market.  My wife and I shopped and the others followed.  You could tell that this was not their 'thing' but they had NO negative attitudes... .they just followed us around as we shopped.  My wife started in... .'they are making me feel guilty, why are they acting like this after all we have done for them'  on and on.  I tried to validate and told her i could understand how she felt.  I tried to encourage her saying we had done a lot for the kids and we didnt need to feel guilty.  I tried to downplay that i disagreed that the kids were acting 'bad'.  This was not enough... .she wanted me to 'confront' them on their behavior.

I dont know if others feel this way... .but in the past i had 'gotten onto my kids' because of how my wife felt even though they had done nothing wrong.  I still feel guilty for those times and can almost see them looking at me in confusion.  I didnt confront them as my wife wanted.  Here is what followed... .  she said she wanted to stop shopping and go to the hotel.  At the hotel she chose to sleep in the car.  She refused to drive back to dallas with us and got a flight back to dallas.  She demands that I not come home and live with her.  She says it is over.  Her view is that once again i have sided with the kids... .it is us vs her.  I dont 'stand up for her', etc.

Yikes... .  here we go AGAIN!

Over the last few days i have been reading again.  I feel like in many cases I have enabled her by giving in to the expectation of hers that I solve her problems, that i 'fix' her emotions.  At the flea market i think i should have said 'i can understand how you feel the way you feel... .i dont share that feeling but i can see how you feel like that.  I think you should talk to them if you feel that way.'.  I should have put it back on her to solve her own problem.  I am afraid to do that because she solves problems very badly. 

I caretake my wife.  If she hurts then i try to fix it.  If she is upset at the kids then i step in and mediate.  I talk to them and say 'mom feels... .' and then go back to my wife and say 'i told them'... .    many times it works but many times i become the problem because of the kids reactions, because i didnt say the right thing, etc...

I think i have a lot to learn and change... .  my fear though is that doing things like setting boundries, stop caretaking, taking care of myself, etc will infuriate my wife.  I have asked my wife to go into a couples DBT program for high conflict couples.  She says no... .it is my problem... .i need to go into counceling.

I have a feeling the end could be at hand.  I love my wife very much and it feels painful to even think about life outside of what i imagined my family to be as i grew old. 

Not sure why i wrote this... .  it does feel good to 'put it down in words'.  Hopefuly it will encourage others who have felt alone in their pain for years.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sempervivum]

I dont know if others feel this way... .but in the past i had 'gotten onto my kids' because of how my wife felt even though they had done nothing wrong.  I still feel guilty for those times and can almost see them looking at me in confusion.  I didnt confront them as my wife wanted.  Here is what followed... .  she said she wanted to stop shopping and go to the hotel.  At the hotel she chose to sleep in the car.  She refused to drive back to dallas with us and got a flight back to dallas.  She demands that I not come home and live with her.  She says it is over.  Her view is that once again i have sided with the kids... .it is us vs her.  I dont 'stand up for her', etc.

... .

I caretake my wife.  If she hurts then i try to fix it.  If she is upset at the kids then i step in and mediate.  I talk to them and say 'mom feels... .' and then go back to my wife and say 'i told them'... .    many times it works but many times i become the problem because of the kids reactions, because i didnt say the right thing, etc...

I think i have a lot to learn and change... .  my fear though is that doing things like setting boundries, stop caretaking, taking care of myself, etc will infuriate my wife.  I have asked my wife to go into a couples DBT program for high conflict couples.  She says no... .it is my problem... .i need to go into counceling.

I have a feeling the end could be at hand.  I love my wife very much and it feels painful to even think about life outside of what i imagined my family to be as i grew old. 

Not sure why i wrote this... .  it does feel good to 'put it down in words'.  Hopefuly it will encourage others who have felt alone in their pain for years.

Hi and welcome! 

I think the best way to help is to exchange experiences.

As for kids, I too have many regrets for moments and days when I protected my BP instead of them. I cannot go back in time, but the good thing is I discovered my mistake and I do not repeat it.

I too used to mediate, but I realized it was wrong, I gave it up after many attempts. I thought I will spare the kids problems if I mediate between their father and them, but in the end they have to set up some kind of communication. Both sides have to function without interpreter. It is not easy after years of being a mediator, but the children helped me through their growing. With 22 and 18 they don´t want their mother to express their needs and their feelings. The communication between their father and them gets painful sometimes, for me too, but I passed that line when I felt the need to jump in and explain.

I don´t know what might happen when you start setting your boundaries. In my case it was like that: my husband observed my changes silently for a month or so and then he said he didn´t like the new me. I replied I had to change in order to survive because he put too much strain on me. And that was true and at that time I was ready for a divorce. I told him that we can do it (divorce), but he clearly stated this was not an option.

My changes were in form of setting my personal boundaries and giving up some unnecessary support for him (that looked to me like babysitting of a grown up man). I did not do it with any hidden purpose, but to protect my integrity and sanity, he needed me, so he had to live with it. In the end, these changes did not make any harm, only to his vanity. I still remained hiy wife.

This is just one possibility that might happen to you.

Maybe someone else with a different experience can give you another view.

As for counselling, if a BP is not willing to go, there is no use to force him/her. But go yourself, it helps. My husband is also one of those who "does not need therapy or counselling", but that did not prevent me from going. Of course it is not the same as when you go as a couple, but is something.

[babyducks]

Hi HEisable,

Welcome to bpdfamily.   You have come to a great website, where all of us understand exactly what you mean.   Because we live it too.   

Everyone who starts here has The Lessons that run along the right hand side of the screen pointed out to them.   Much of them will look familiar to you from your reading.   

I understand your fear that setting boundaries and ending the caretaking will infuriate your wife.  Perfectly natural that you would feel exactly that way.   But here is the thing.   If you don't try setting boundaries and to stop caretaking, nothing is going to change.   You are the one who understands the problems in the relationship, and is willing to do the work to make a difference so for now, the focus will reside on you.   I know it feels unfair.   

You have some great insights in your post.   We can helps support you.   We can encourage you to let your wife fix her own emotional storms.   Her words should drive her own actions not your actions.   

I'm wondering if you have read the book by Margalis Fjelstad, Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist?  Since you have done so much reading.  I found that book to be greatly helpful at turning the focus on my behaviors and my need to fix.   

Are you and your wife residing together now?

'ducks

[HEisable]

Hey, thanks for the replies. 

I have read that book and am in the middle of re-reading now.  I underline half of the book!  My wife and I dont live together right now.  I wanted to deescalate when she came back home without me and I proposed i come home and live in a guest bedroom.  I told her that from our experiences in the past that the longer we live separate the harder it becomes and the more hurts happen.  She refused.  Part of me wanted to go home anyways (it is OUR house... .right?) but i had 2 concerns.  First, in the past it has turnned physical or at least felt explosive... .i dont want yet another event like that... .it kills me and my kids.  Second, i am able to live cheap and dont go sign year leases because of some event that just happened... .she does and i dont want to waste 1000's of $ again.  So here i am again with no place to live because my wife rages. Sucks... .but it is my decision.  I am making the best of it.  Going to visit my daughter who lives in NC for a week and them my family ilin MN that I havert seen in 2 years.

Question for everyone... .I am making a list of boundries i am going to implement as i read the book.  Example... i will not 'own' my wifes emotions anymore.  This event started because my wife felt my kids were acting bad.  I disagreed but tried to validate that i could understand her feelings.  I encouraged her to just just do what SHE wanted to and not worry about the kids.  She wanted me to 'stand up for her' and confront the kids.  I refused because i didnt feel like she felt.   In reality i was protecting myself and my kids because if she went to them she would likly tick them off and then she would get mad at them and the spiral would start. Now what i think i should have done is tell her that since i didnt feel as she felt, that she should talk to the kids about it herself... .solve her own emotions rather than expecting me to do it for her.  I should have let her try to solve her emotions.  I think it still would have ended bad but at least i would have started letting her be responsibe for what she felt.

We communicate in email now.  I think we are both afraid of what happens when we actually talk... .email is safer.

She wants me to appoligize for not 'standing up for her'. 

Now for the question... .Should i respond in email with my boundry saying that I will no longer own what she feels and be expected to fix it... .if she feels something then she is the one responsibe to fix it'  or should i just say  nothing, not respond or appoligize,  and wait for it to 'get better' (not sure it will get better at this point) and then give her my new boundries when the emotions of an event are raging?  Truthfully, if things were going good and i told her that boundry, it would turn bad ver quickly.  She is extreemly sensative about me not 'standing up for her'

I guess my question is how and when should i communicate my new boundries?  Is it ok to start communicating them in the middle of an 'event'?

Thanks

[specialized]

Hi there Im kinda new here too. I have a wife of 20 years that i was always jumping as high as she could set the bar.  Read the stuff here its good ask questions you are not alone.  as far as setting boundaries... .it takes some nerve at first but you do have to put yourself first and the authority in the relationship is going to have to come from you because you need to set those boundaries. I am still working on this and every day is different but i was surprised to find how much better i felt when can stop second guessing myself . take care of you first

[babyducks]

She wants me to appoligize for not 'standing up for her'. 

Now for the question... .Should i respond in email with my boundry saying that I will no longer own what she feels and be expected to fix it... .if she feels something then she is the one responsibe to fix it'  or should i just say  nothing, not respond or appoligize,  and wait for it to 'get better' (not sure it will get better at this point) and then give her my new boundries when the emotions of an event are raging?  Truthfully, if things were going good and i told her that boundry, it would turn bad ver quickly.  She is extreemly sensative about me not 'standing up for her'

I guess my question is how and when should i communicate my new boundries?  Is it ok to start communicating them in the middle of an 'event'?

Thanks

I replied to your other thread also but wanted to put a couple of thoughts here.

have you found the Lesson on JADE yet?  JADE stands for Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain.   And we always always advise Do Not JADE.    Do not Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain your position beyond what is necessary for common sense.

If you don't feel like you did anything that requires an apology don't apologize.

Explaining or Justifying your boundary is not recommended.   We say around here Less is More.   The less effort you put into explaining this, the less your wife has to argue with.    Just enforce your new boundary.  Consistently.   The key is to be consistent.

I was once terribly guilty of trying to 'fix' my partners emotions.   And she, of course, hated it.   Well of course she would.   They were her emotions, after all.    And I was denying her the opportunity to sooth.    All I really had to do was acknowledge that she was having an emotion.  Not try to change it, or manage it, or react to it.     Seems very counter intuitive to do nothing when some one is crying or swearing or raging.   

I have to tell you that since coming here and working at these tools there are no more rages in my relationship.  There are still difficult times.   But no abusive verbal language,   no threats.   No ultimatums.   Took a little over a year to get to this point.

It takes practice.   And it takes time for emotions to cool.    hang in there and keep posting.   keep asking questions.   don't give up.   this is tough stuff.

[HEisable]

I guess I JADE all the time.  It is tough not to when you get attacked for something for no real reason.  It feels like i use to do JADE more but as time went on i felt stepped on all the time.  Doormat.  I felt lime i was saying 'come on, hit me again, i wont fight back, i wont argue, i wont tell you your wrong'.  It felt like it just got worse and worse.  Tbere were no ckncequences.  I felt like i was enabling  Evetually i had enough.

So how do you handle the 'doormat' feelings witb JADE.  I guess i need to read the section... .huh?

[babyducks]

So how do you handle the 'doormat' feelings witb JADE.  I guess i need to read the section... .huh?

with a tool called SET.   Support, Empathy, Truth.

The cat has thrown up in the basket of clean laundry,  my partner has dsyregulated and is now hollering at me about the cat, the laundry, the basket, well you know.

Support:  Yes, it is completely frustrating to have the cat ruin all those clean clothes.

Empathy: After a long day at work anyone would be upset to have do the laundry again.

Truth:  Honestly I am frustrated now too, so I am going to go have a cup of tea on the porch.  I'll be back in 15 minutes to help.