Therapist believes soon to be ex-wife exhibits BPD traits

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

My marriage is coming to an end; my wife left in June and it has been quite the ride. To make a long story short my therapist believes that my ex-wife is exhibiting traits of someone who has BPD.

To give a little bit of background, I met my wife in Feb. 2013 when she was leaving her previous marriage. We did not date right away but talked here and there. A few months after she left we started dating lightly, but of course I was cautious. She did everything she could to convince me she was over her ex; he was abusive to her emotionally and sexually but they argued all the time, her relationship deteriorated when he hit her. Our relationship started great, she was working full-time, has an amazing son and we had all the same interests and attracted to each other.

She very quickly fell for me and we became intimate very quickly in our relationship, she told me I was different and made her feel like she didn't need to use sex to keep me like she has in the past. She was raped and assaulted that summer, had to quit her job and struggled with hearing voices, disassociating, irrational fears and depression on occasion. She had enough money to pay for rent for the rest of the year. As time went on I fell in love with her.

Despite all her struggling I loved her, rarely was she abrasive to me and when we argued we worked it out. She proposed to me that October and we married in December. Quite quick but she said I made her believe in marriage again and she was so in love with me. I had an issue where I could not handle stress, though, and communication was great while I was not stressed and difficult while I was. This ate at her but we worked on it. We had two miscarriages, one that fall and one the following spring.

The next year she tried to work again, but out in public she would hear voices and become terrified. She had to quit. She tried a few times to find jobs at home, but I noticed that she would be very optimistic for a few days or weeks then quit whatever she was trying, this is common throughout our entire relationship. She is also very impulsive, wanting dogs, to start a business to suddenly go shopping out of no where. That year was tough on her, she had disassociative episodes, we didn't know what was going on. In the summer she tried to cut her wrist one night after us going out drinking; she stopped but was terrified what was happening. She went to the psychiatric hospital for a few days, entered group therapy and then personal therapy. She was diagnosed with PTSD from rape and childhood trauma and went to specialized therapy. This helped so much, she felt like she could be a normal person. She asked me not to initiate sex though, which slowly changed how I treated her, I had to put on kid gloves because she was very sensitive and stressed frequently.

Our bond grew incredibly strong, throughout this she would write letters how in love she was and how amazing I was to her. Then the medication came; round after round they tried to find a drug to help her stop disassociating and think clearly. Finally one was found in December, venlafaxine, and the dosage over a few months pumped up to 225mg. During this time she felt great, had some art contracts and was the happiest she has ever been. Her best friend told me she was so happy, he's never seen her so happy with someone.

We moved in March of this year, during this year she slowly started to drift and would rarely initiate kissing or anything intimate. She started to become overwhelmed with daily tasks, like taking care of her son, the house, or listening to her friends and me vent. She felt like everyone depended on her and she could not deal with it. She fell into depression and could not explain to me what was happening, would not go to therapy and again tried to find a job, go to school, start her art business, etc... .but kept quitting. She said her pills made her think clearly. I grew clingy and panicked because she was drifting away from me.

[Polis_Ohio]

Hello,

My marriage is coming to an end; my wife left in June and it has been quite the ride. To make a long story short my therapist believes that my ex-wife is exhibiting traits of someone who has BPD.

To give a little bit of background, I met my wife in Feb. 2013 when she was leaving her previous marriage. We did not date right away but talked here and there. A few months after she left we started dating lightly, but of course I was cautious. She did everything she could to convince me she was over her ex; he was abusive to her emotionally and sexually but they argued all the time, her relationship deteriorated when he hit her. Our relationship started great, she was working full-time, has an amazing son and we had all the same interests and attracted to each other.

She very quickly fell for me and we became intimate very quickly in our relationship, she told me I was different and made her feel like she didn't need to use sex to keep me like she has in the past. She was raped and assaulted that summer, had to quit her job and struggled with hearing voices, disassociating, irrational fears and depression on occasion. She had enough money to pay for rent for the rest of the year. As time went on I fell in love with her.

Despite all her struggling I loved her, rarely was she abrasive to me and when we argued we worked it out. She proposed to me that October and we married in December. Quite quick but she said I made her believe in marriage again and she was so in love with me. I had an issue where I could not handle stress, though, and communication was great while I was not stressed and difficult while I was. This ate at her but we worked on it. We had two miscarriages, one that fall and one the following spring.

The next year she tried to work again, but out in public she would hear voices and become terrified. She had to quit. She tried a few times to find jobs at home, but I noticed that she would be very optimistic for a few days or weeks then quit whatever she was trying, this is common throughout our entire relationship. She is also very impulsive, wanting dogs, to start a business to suddenly go shopping out of no where. That year was tough on her, she had disassociative episodes, we didn't know what was going on. In the summer she tried to cut her wrist one night after us going out drinking; she stopped but was terrified what was happening. She went to the psychiatric hospital for a few days, entered group therapy and then personal therapy. She was diagnosed with PTSD from rape and childhood trauma and went to specialized therapy. This helped so much, she felt like she could be a normal person. She asked me not to initiate sex though, which slowly changed how I treated her, I had to put on kid gloves because she was very sensitive and stressed frequently.

Our bond grew incredibly strong, throughout this she would write letters how in love she was and how amazing I was to her. Then the medication came; round after round they tried to find a drug to help her stop disassociating and think clearly. Finally one was found in December, venlafaxine, and the dosage over a few months pumped up to 225mg. During this time she felt great, had some art contracts and was the happiest she has ever been. Her best friend told me she was so happy, he's never seen her so happy with someone.

We moved in March of this year, during this year she slowly started to drift and would rarely initiate kissing or anything intimate. She started to become overwhelmed with daily tasks, like taking care of her son, the house, or listening to her friends and me vent. She felt like everyone depended on her and she could not deal with it. She fell into depression and could not explain to me what was happening, would not go to therapy and again tried to find a job, go to school, start her art business, etc... .but kept quitting. She said her pills made her think clearly. I grew clingy and panicked because she was drifting away from me.

[Polis_Ohio]

This guy starts hanging out with us, friend of a friend. She tells me he flirts with her and she kind of have feelings for him but will not hang out with him again. Tells him that she loves me so much and I am a great husband, she's flattered but nothing is going to happen. I know this because that guy told my friend who told me. She also told her best friend, who has been helping me through this breakup, the Sunday before she left that she loved me so much and I made her so happy.

June she asks me to go to marriage counseling with her, I agree something is amiss. I throw her a surprise birthday party the day after and she is overjoyed, tells me how much she loves me and I'm the only person to ever do so. Next day we see a movie and she is all smiles and loving me. Monday I stay home, we talk that evening about how she is feeling, tells me she doesn't feel as connected romantically to me but really loves me deeply. She doesn't know what to do. I look up what we can do and it appears lots of couples have this happen in a marriage, doldrums. She feels relieved and wants to go to counseling, try to restart our relationship a bit.

I should note throughout nearly all of our relationship she has been terrified I would leave. She feared I would find someone better and that she was not good enough.

Next day I stay home to be with her and my stepson (I love him like my own). We talk again, it is emotional, we both cry and she is just unsure what she can do, says I am worth fighting for and we will go to counseling once she is back from vacation. That night she does not sleep, tells me she is hysterical and impulsively leaves (her words) saying she would end up cheating on me and doesn't know what's happening.

Over the next three months every time we talk is an emotional battle. First she tells me she never loved me and I always wanted her to stay home and do nothing (not true at all). I asked if she left me for this other guy she said no. Goes on vacation, tells me she was being stubborn, she loves me, she needs some space and we will go to therapy when she comes back and she'll keep an open heart.

I send her some money from our savings so she can buy a car eventually (it was not a lot). She spends it all of course on vacation. During vacation she asks how I am, I say sad but hopeful. Her entire attitude changes, saying she wants this to be over, she never loved me, how I am blaming her meds (I brought it up as a possibility), that we couldn't communicate well because of me, all sorts of things some made up.

Following week we go to counseling, she is cold, wants to end it. I am pissed, filled with resentment and of course cry. She takes me to dinner and we talk about our marriage, it was pretty decent talk, identified our issues, how I couldn't open up enough because I was afraid of hurting her, how she couldn't open up due to the same and how we had to deal with a lot. I asked why she never worked she said she missed me way too much when I was gone, she needed me around her. (Except now she left... .)

The next few weeks were rough. She tells me she is dating that guy, wants this dissolution done ASAP. Tells me that she wants to just be able to talk to me and I am her best friend, she is crushed and asks me what she should do. I tell her I think she needs to focus on herself and figuring out what is happening to her, she slips into a deep depression. Loses like 10 lbs (she is only 110 lbs as is). She agrees but still dates this guy, she says eventually she takes her away from life and he is messed up like she is. We argue a bit here and there, then I finally realize what she means about me listening, opening up, etc... .I begin to work on myself and continue therapy.

My mother texts her something mean, she cries on the phone with me. After she texts me wanting to talk yet again. She tells her friend, though, I initiated the conversation, I was being pushy and wanted to go on a date. None of that was true, the last thing I wanted to do was see her.

Anyway, she "cheats" on her and says he doesn't want her, is a narcissist. She is crushed, texts me about how I am amazing and taught her so much. Asks me to meet up on Friday. All week she flirts with me a little and is excited to see me, texts me randomly. One day she is VERY sexually explicit. I meet her Friday, she is cold, mean to me just bitter. I talked about how I improved myself; later she says we can date but she's going to date other people too, she can't work on us because she can't have a relationship. (Not going to work for me)

Next few days she is texting me how horrible she feels, ends up going out on a date from some guy from the internet. Sunday she explodes at me via text, says she's not my therapist, I'm smothering her, and then she breaks down, says she is just so depression, hopeless, can hardly feed herself and her son and cannot buy him school supplies. She misses me so much and just wants our friendship back. I am not the one striking out, she is.

Next day I tell her I will help with school supplies. She is taken aback at how nice I am and that we should meet for coffee sometime. I say ok, but lets wait a few weeks. She starts texting me on some days how depressed she is, how she feels detached, hopeless, miserable, wants to run away and leave her son here with his dad. She says she thought she would be happier leaving and being single but she is more miserable. How she doesn't feel she can attach to anyone and is just in a dark place. Goes out on random internet dates to fill her loneliness.

This is a common theme talking to me. Other days though, she will be different, flippant and blaming. She convinces this guy who hurt her to sleep with her, but she feel like crap every time she does. She complains to me how everyone thinks she is an idiot she is doing this, plays it off like they are just FWB type thing but she is clearly distraught.

We don't talk for a bit. One Monday, mid-August she texts me out of no where. Asks to see me and that she needs me in her life. I am hesitant and she says I can't win her back if we don't see each other. She tells me how depressed and miserable she is about this guy, she can't control herself, her thoughts, or really her life. She is very confused about everything, etc... .She comes onto me, saying she would sleep with me but I would take that the wrong way. I go to a concert and she gets jealous when i say how many good looking girls there were. Yet she asks me out at the end.

We go out that Thursday, she is not well. She is very forceful with her conversation and almost mean, but loosens up when we have a few drinks. We chat a while, like we used to, her legs between mine. Yet something is off. That night she asks if I want to get this dissolution still, I say no even after all this. She says ok I am so nice to help her and she wants me to tell her when I think something is amiss with her. We go to my house to charge her phone, almost end up kissing after she hugs me long, says I smell good and touches my face. I couldn't do it, something was off.

Friday I go to Houston, she is texting me to have a good trip, etc... .Next day she texts me, tells me sorry she never responded last night but was watching this elderly guy she watches. That was a lie she admits readily, she went out with that guy and now feels like crap. We text all day about how she is destroying herself and messed up. She grows mean to me but later that night texts me I am right, she is done with him and thank you for being there (she is really done w/ him to).

Next few days she has illusions of going out west to go to school. She has no money, is not well at all and would leave her son. Conversations are weird, but when I get back she wants to see me. We meet up again, this time she is more off than before, she lashes out at me but ultimately ends up crying how terrible of a mother she is and how she is suicidal and doesn't know what she is doing. Going on random dates with guys she is not even interested in, hardly eating, sleeping all day and can barely work. When I got her she was tipsy and almost kissed me again, all night she is staring at me touching my arm and telling me I look good. Next day she texts me how handsome I was and a pic I posted on FB was great.

Friday she says my pic was sexy, asks to go out to dinner. She asks me if I think she is crazy, I tell her I think something else is wrong, she has two dominating moods, neither I have ever seen. This is where it gets bad, I pick her up in good faith. She immediately lashes out at me, demands the dissolution, says she doesn't know if she loves me, brings up EVERYTHING hurtful. Apologizes for that one guy and just is all over the place. Wanted our marriage to work, wanted to try more, etc... .but now doesn't know what she feels. Doesn't think we'll work out but yet stares at me longingly when she thinks I am not looking. We agree not to talk.

Our contact over the next two weeks is brief. She comes to the house again, grabs a handful of items and leaves. Always this is what she does. Only a few items besides when she took some furniture. Most of her sons toys are still there. She texts me about wanting to watch the dog a few weeks, i say no but she can visit. Then she says I don't know what to do. She plays it off like it was the dog.

Following week i drop off her SS card. She is weird to me, cannot look at me in the eye unless she is talking about me, says she is partying a lot and impressing all the boys after I tell her everything I have been doing. We stand outside in silence for a while, she gives me a one armed hug.

Next day I ask to wait on the dissolution at my therapist's urging, to help me stabilize and see if she does. She flips out, starts lashing out and making up what I think. Demands we get this done when she returns from yet ANOTHER vacation. Says we will never work out and it's done.

Since then we have only spoken once about finishing the paperwork. Her best friend says he is certain she is still in love with me but is not herself, he has never experienced this with her, not even through her worst breakups, something is not right. She pushed him away in a similar fashion, lashing out.

Now she is yet again falling for someone else, another guy, a guy she told me she was not interested in. She can never be single, ever, despite what she says she wants. Her friends all but abandoned her, except the one she lives with but she is not the greatest support, she's an enabler.

I just don't know what to do. I am distancing myself but I fear for my stepson and cry every time I think about him. Is there anyway to approach her behavior? I do not want to simply force her into a BPD "diagnosis" but something is wrong, she has this cycle with her life, running from good things and going after bad things. She is drinking so much... .she is so thin... .

I am writing a letter to her therapist at the direction of my therapist to do one last act of love.

[Polis_Ohio]

Sorry for the length. Pure stream of consciousness writing; I know it's a lot to read but I felt that describing our relationship and how/when she changed is important.

I understand relationships are tough and sometimes people fall out of love but there were so many other factors at play here; particularly her wanting to work on us and then leaving impulsively.

[Polis_Ohio]

Ok so for some reason someone told her I have been saying certain things. She won't tell me who but I told her those words were misconstrued and what I actually said.

She is really condescending towards me suddenly. I dont know what I did to deserve her treating me like she is allowing me to vent, allowing me to blame her for some of her actions. She used an inordinate amount of ""s in reference to our dissolution and how her life is just great suddenly. She worked 1 day at her new job before leaving for vacation then she claimed she has been working 40 hrs a week.

She said I thought she was evil... .I never even said that anyone ever, I try not to put her down. I don't know where she got that from.

I asked her why she wanted to know how I was doing last time she blew up at me. She said she wanted to make sure I was ok that I can vent and talk to her. So I told her what I was dealing with outside of getting through the grief of the sudden death of our marriage.

Her response was simply that sucks I'm sorry.

I know my story is lengthy but I am trying to heal and do what is right.

[enlighten me]

Hi Polis Ohio

Welcome to the family.

Im sorry your going through this.

The behaviours we see can be very confusing. Especially if they toy with our emotions.

The lessons here might be of some help to you.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

And in family law

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239547.0

Your story may be long but it is all too familiar. Im sure as you read the posts you will see numerous that you could have written yourself to some extent. I found this very helpful as it made me realise I wasn't going mad.

Keep reading and keep posting it does help.

EM

[Polis_Ohio]

Thanks enlightened. It's good to hear that at least it is similar to others' stories. I don't know what she tells her doctor or therapist, but I wrote a letter, essentially what I posted here. I tried to make it objective but obviously I am emotional.

Not many of my friends understand what it feels like to have someone ask you for emotional support after leaving then, leading you on and then crushing you swiftly. It's not a "normal" breakup. It is tough, I broke down at work today and they are letting me go home early. This has affected my work performance but they understand at least.

[enlighten me]

Hi Polis

You say you wrote the letter. Who was it for? Did you send it to your ex or her therapist?

I too realised not many people I knew understood the devastation you go through. There are unfortunately plenty here that do. I say unfortunately as its not something I would want anyone to have to go through and there are so many of us.

I too know what its like to breakdown at work. I was a total mess. I couldn't eat or sleep and my mind was racing at 100 MPH. I assure you though it does get easier it takes time and effort. The more effort you put in the less time it takes. Its hard to summon up any effort in the beginning though.

[Polis_Ohio]

The letter is for her therapist and psychiatrist (pill dr. basically). My therapist thinks I should send it to show my side of the relationship and what I experienced in the event she has not divulged everything.

[enlighten me]

Have you sent it yet? Just curious?

Ive not heard of a therapist asking for this before. I could understand it if her therapist asked you for your side of things to get a better picture.

Im not a professional so don't think Im advising for or against this.

Can I ask how writing this letter felt for you? I know for me just getting it down on paper was a relief even if I didn't send it to anyone.

[Polis_Ohio]

Well my therapist recommended it since she was saying her therapist said she was fine when she clearly wasn't. Something seemed amiss and she had two major moods almost like personalities.

What is so heart breaking is when I was writing this I remembered all the amazing times we had together and saw how dealing with her mental illness changed how I treated her. The illness and treatment changed our relationship. She wouldn't give us another chance after she suddenly snapped.

[enlighten me]

My ex wife told me her therapist said she was ok. This is the same therapist that told me she believed my ex wife had a mental illness and that I should run.

[Polis_Ohio]

My wife's therapist originally told her I was really good for her back when she saw her for her EMDR therapy for PTSD. She encouraged her to write notes to me and said I was helping her a ton. Then she went on meds.

It's hard not to blame meds but it's very coincidental. Now she suddenly does not love me, is acting like everything is just fine and tells me that "I'll get better, just take it one day at a time." She is very condescending to me, I showed my friend (her ex-best friend I guess) to make sure I wasn't making it out to be something it wasn't but agreed she was.

Unfortunately, her best friend told me yesterday he cannot hang out with her anymore, not after what she did to me and how she acted towards him. I feel bad, like it was my fault since I vented to him so much, but she devastated me. I trusted her, I trusted when she told me I was worth fighting for and we would go to therapy, I trusted she loved me.

I just want my old wife back... .where did she go? Did the meds take her? What happened? She claims she thinks clearly now. How do you think clearly on 225 mg of venlafaxine (effexor)? It has a horrible history.

[enlighten me]

I can understand your distress and seeing this change is painful.

Unfortunately at the moment your wife doesn't want you around. This may only be temporary but you have to brace yourself for the worst.

It may sound heartless but you have to stop worrying about things you have no control over. You need to worry about what you can control and that is you.

If your wife does decide she wants your help you need to be in a good place to be able to offer it. You need to de stress, look after yourself and get to a happier place. You may not want to detach but by being attached you will not achieve very much for your own well being.

It is a difficult and confusing time for you right now.

Do you feel that you are currently able to offer your best to help her if she asks?

[Polis_Ohio]

I am trying to detach, I didn't instigate her being condescending towards me.

I relive all the great times we have had everyday and how happy I was being a husband and father. Unfortunately I live in a townhouse that we moved into together for the awesome school system.

I don't think she will ever come to me for help again, definitely not anytime soon if she ever does. We were best friends, had a great relationship but it had it's flaws. I was a happier person with her though, she just made me even happier with my life. We did not talk enough about our dynamic, though, and it was damaged by dealing with her mental illness. I tried to talk to her about that after she left but it didn't get through to her. Like the person she describes as wanting is basically me before I had to treat her differently after the psychiatric hospital treatment.

I'm not sure I ever have to worry about her coming back. The way she is now I don't foresee changing.

[Polis_Ohio]

Wow so ummm... .my friend and wife's best friend (ex-best friend?) told me that he dropped the paper work off and my wife was drinking with her friend talking about going out for more drinks. This was 1 day after she told me she was not partying and drinking like that anymore and she is spending all her time with her son. He said she was not happy to see him like usual and that she was not acting normal.

I don't understand why she lied to me, I don't know if it was what someone told her that I said, how she was drinking and neglecting her kid, (although I did not say she was neglecting her kid). I don't even know who told her that, she won't tell me and that bothers me someone would rat me out that I trusted.

Her friend has again told me she cannot hang out with her, she is too different and changed into someone he does not want to be around. I feel bad for her... .her best friend abandoned her.

[enlighten me]

The thing is they want us to see an image of who they think they should be. This mask varies depending on whos being shown it. For you the mask is a loving mum, for her friend its the fun party girl, for a boss its the reliable employee. Its part of mirroring. They mirror who you want them to be or at least who they think you want them to be.

[Polis_Ohio]

Oh the funny thing is a few weeks ago she was utterly depressed and telling me much of a terrible mom she was and felt like she was neglecting him, that he is just a burden to her. She later recanted on that but the fact she said that is not right. Three weeks later she is just peachy?

I don't believe that.

[babyducks]

Hi Polis_Ohio

I wanted to join enlighten_me in welcoming you to these boards.

I was impressed by the clarity and compassion in your story.  When I first got here I was barely able to form sentences.   My partner is diagnosed Bipolar 1 comorbid with EDD.   There were a couple of times where she disassociated so badly as to appear frankly psychotic.   She struggles with hypomania and keeping that in check.  I understand what you are describing.

For those of us not exposed to, or experienced with mental illness, I think we search for rational logical reasons for our loved ones behavior.  At least I know I did.   The thing I learned is that serious mental illness doesn't make a great deal of sense when viewed through our eyes.   I noticed you mentioned she has heard voices.    I know in bouts of bipolar mania it's not unheard of to experience hallucinations and visions.

Unfortunately, and I know this is very hard, right now your wife is unstable and her judgment and reason is compromised.   That's very tough.   I think its great that you are continuing to work with a therapist,  and I think its very good that you are coming here so we can help support and encourage you.

What I have come to believe is true is that all of us look at our relationships and think, what did I do, what could I have done better, what if I had done this instead of that.   

Sometimes the illness wins.

That's not a good/bad, right/wrong, evil/blessed.  It just is.  And it sucks.    You have found a good place, with people who truly understand.  Many who have experienced much of what you have.   There are tools for healing and skills for communication here that will help you, however this play out.

So welcome.   I'm glad you are here.

'ducks

[Polis_Ohio]

Thanks ducky. I am not even sure what  is happening anymore. I made mistakes through this venting a lot but I never slandered her. She thinks I'm horrible I guess. I apologized and her response was just don't worry about it like yelling at me was no big deal.

We texted a bit yesterday some simple things, she told me what she was doing for some reason then stopped responding.

It's like she wants to text then changes her mind then does it again.

At least yesterday we didn't argue or anything.

[Polis_Ohio]

So yesterday evening my good friend told me something that happened to her between her and another friend. This was a secret that was kept from me for many years but she finally told me, probably due to some day-time drinking.

Anyway I texted my exwife that she finally told me and that I know I shouldn't be complaining to her but I don't know who else to reach out to. She called me, sounded tired and sympathetic a little bit. Told me why I was not told and that she didn't like my other friend for that reason. Said to say hi to our mutual friends (they were my friends technically) and that she misses them. She had to go to work so the conversation was cut short but the tone of her voice was either tired or used to express how little she cares. I'm not sure why she would call if she didn't care, but she seems to miss our life.

I texted her thanks for calling, I feel like people keep things away from me on purpose (not meant towards her, just in general) and have a good time at work. Then I texted her I told our friends she said Hi, that I am actually doing better but this has always upset me and seriously thanks for calling. I convinced my two friends to reach out to her this week; they don't hate her but really are not happy how she went about this.

No response of course, maybe she was working or just back to ignoring me. Our weekend was filled with her yelling at me via text and I think us trying to smooth it out? I have no idea where we stand.

Unfortunately she is filing the paperwork today so I need to keep reminding myself that I am just bargaining if I think she is actually having true second thoughts. After all she did say she did not love me and we will never work out.

Personally I am feeling better than the last few months; I don't know why maybe the date I went on Friday. I realized that I changed who I was from the beginning of our relationship to the end; I was not an individual at the end like I used to be. I am regaining that back along with my self-esteem and ego.

I wish my ex would realize that and at least try to hangout with me; however, again, I am just bargaining with myself. I don't know if she has BPD or not, but she definitely had/has something going on. I am very sad today, the official end is near. I need to remind myself that no matter if she does talk to me or not reconciliation is not possible.

[Polis_Ohio]

Actually thinking back on our conversation I am not sure if my ex was about to cry, it sounded like it but it was difficult to tell. She was definitely lamenting over missing our friends.

Could she be coming out of her episode?

Still she does not love me and today is the death of my marriage officially, once it's submitted. Sad times... .yet I hardly feel.

[enlighten me]

Its a big moment for her as well. She is filing the divorce papers so it wouldn't be surprising if she was having second thoughts about it.

Its natural to feel numb at times like this.

[Polis_Ohio]

Hah I wish she was. My life is not a fairy tale, though, no one has ever come back to me. I have changed a lot over the past few months and have been reading about codependency. I was definitely an enabler, lost myself taking care of her and had trouble opening up. Never again, though, will I let that happen to me if I can help it.

I just wonder what terrible thing she will text me yet or if she will be nice. Probably just tell me it's submitted.

Good thing I have therapy tonight.

[enlighten me]

Realising our own issues is a huge step to avoiding these type of relationships in the future.

[Polis_Ohio]

Yes very true. Unfortunately, I did not realize this would happen. Everything she told me led me to believe we would work on our marriage and try to figure out if we can change.

We both changed; I was reading the codependency article and I as an enabler for sure, afraid to open up and be judged was my huge issue. I am fixing that but it's a little late.

I am very glad she is doing better but I still cannot read what she thinks of me besides not loving me any longer. I made mistakes through this breakup just as she did; I looked for answers and vented a lot. I didn't know what to do, I do hope she can forgive me in time.

I don't get her contact though, she tells me what she was doing Saturday night, goes silent then responds, goes silent, etc... .

Calls me last night, does not respond to my thank you text. No idea. Does she care? Does she not?

She might be having second thoughts but somehow I doubt it. She's pretty adamant to be rid of me.

[enlighten me]

I realised that I too had made mistakes and it wasn't all my exgf's fault. I see how my co dependency prevented me from enforcing boundaries.

This is actually quite a big step in the recovery process. Some people are unable or unwilling to see their part in the break up. These people like pwBPD will repeat the cycle again and again unless they are willing to look at their own actions and deal with them.

My exgf used to and still does tell me what she is up to. She doesnt see how upsetting it can be to have been written out of things or knowing she is going out to have a good time. At first it felt like a form of torture. Now I just don't think she can empathise. She talks as if we are still friends so as her friend I should be happy for her.

Maybe your ex is thinking of you as a friend and then remembering the situation. A bit like when your chatting to someone then put your foot in it. This could be why she avoids things like the thank you text because she wants to avoid the feelings. By treating you as a friend she doesn't have to deal with deeper emotions. Just a thought. I could be way off the mark.

[Polis_Ohio]

Yes, I realized part of what I played in the relationship failing but not all of it until recently. I think my ex also realizes her role in it as well but I am not sure. I wish a lot of things were different in our relationship, that I was more open to what I really wanted. I think we were much more similar than she realizes and I never was able to show it.

She does think of me as a "friend" of sorts, she wanted to remain best friends at one point but I cannot. She has hurt me incredibly. I'm sure part of avoiding me is not to "lead me on". Which makes sense I guess.

I miss her so much, I miss the good times.

The weird part is she keeps saying what she is doing is none of my business, I don't even ask her what she's doing she tells me.

[enlighten me]

If I asked my exgf Im sure she would say the same yet she keeps telling me things. That said she never once mentioned my replacement in the whole year they were together.

I also miss the good times but unfortunately the good times and bad are all part of the same person.

[Polis_Ohio]

That is so weird. I already know my ex is falling for someone else, so she told me a few weeks back not sure now. It is painful to hear that, especially when I worked so hard on myself to improve and she told me I was worth fighting for literally the day before she left me. Obviously I was hoping we could have a much stronger relationship taking a step back from everything but that is not the case.

[babyducks]

Hi Polis,

I agree with enlighten, it's a great step forward to be working the lessons and reading the articles.  The article on codependency is a good one.   For me it helped to point out yet another way that my relationship was more loaded than an average relationship.  There is a tremendous wealth of information on this site.   

When you feel ready and are comfortable, feel free to join in any members thread that interests you.   Sharing our experiences with others is also a good way to heal.

pwBPD (people with borderline personality disorder) suffer from harmfully intense emotions which can change dramatically and suddenly within a very short period of time.   and for a pwBPD feelings equal facts, so they will frequently interpret a situation to match whatever intense emotion they are feeling at the moment.  which creates a chaotic pattern of love/hate black/white always/never.

Other signs and symptoms of borderline personality disorder may include:

* Strong emotions that wax and wane frequently

* Intense but short episodes of anxiety or depression

* Inappropriate anger, sometimes escalating into physical confrontations

* Difficulty controlling emotions or impulses

* Fear of being alone


Have you found this link yet?

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm#5

'ducks

[Polis_Ohio]

Thanks ducks,

My (ex)wife clearly checks all those boxes and would also check the disassociates box if she wasn't on medication. Feelings equal fact to her, as if they cannot change when clearly they do. Everyday I wonder if she still does indeed love me.

I spoke with my therapist about codependency yesterday and he agrees that I became an enabler and it affected my marriage. That makes sense since she did want me to open up more and both of us had a fear of abandonment. I wish I could talk to her about this, but it will seem as if I am just trying to get her back. I always hope she would come out of this and want me again. I am a very firm believer that now I have identified my issues, our relationship could be different.

I am not the same person as I was when we got married, I have less confidence and feel like I was being gutted by the unusual tension we had between us at the end. There is a lot I would change about how I acted in our relationship; I didn't even realize at the time what was happening.

Of course the past 2 years were also a very difficult time in her life, going to the psych hospital and receiving treatment. That didn't help with me falling into the caretaker role.

There are thousands of "what ifs" I could ponder but currently I am thinking "what now". Is it really over forever? Probably I guess. My wife forces her feelings and my therapist believes she picks fights and becomes angry to make this easier on her, as if she still has feelings for me but is trying to bury them. Who goes from telling someone they love them and are worth fighting for and trying to leaving the next day and suddenly having no love at all.

Here I sit at work, waiting for a text. Either one about the paperwork being submitted, another fight or maybe, just maybe she is regretting this. Is it worth trying to talk to her about what I realize now? I told her a little bit a while ago but she was in her depressed state and only care occasionally. She seems... .ok now, says she is doing better. It was nice to talk to her Sunday although it was when I was sad, nice to hear her voice not be mean to me.

I cried this morning, mourning the loss of what I had, my wife, my step-son, my life. It feels unfair that we went through so much together and now she left without even trying with me and not by herself.

[Polis_Ohio]

Today my friend is talking to my ex. They were best friends when we were married, or at least my ex and her thought, but my ex lashed out at her and treated her poorly shortly after she left.

I hope it goes well. My friend is going to see if my ex will at least talk to me on the phone or in person; we haven't been able to without her lashing out at me. My friend says she is likely laden with guilt and projecting her anger onto me so she can justify her decision, if I am a bad person she can justify her guilt. I am not sure where she stands on me at the moment, she did not respond to my thank you text after she called me Sunday to see how I was doing when I received some jarring news.

I find that weird since she would be fairly upset if I ignored her.

I am interested in talking to her to at least seek some extra closure for myself. I do not blame her for our relationship issues and I have uncovered a major personality flaw, I am very codependent. I want to let her know that I do not blame her and I do not want bad blood between us. Obviously if she is getting better I would like to talk about trying again but at this time that is fruitless.

Maybe I need to wait a month, so I can stop obsessing over her and hitting the gym more like I want to.

[Polis_Ohio]

I'm obsessively staring at my phone now, awaiting a text either from my friend about their conversation or from her about our dissolution paperwork.

I hope she is more stable now, but damn I want her so bad right now. I feel like our relationship unfairly suffered and we could restart; I don't know if her feelings for me are actually gone now or not but that is what she says when she is pissed.

I just want to be well enough not to think about her a lot. Maybe because my paperwork is being submitted this week (I think). I haven't heard from her about it like she said she would tell me, which is kind of driving me crazy. If she is having second thoughts she needs tor each out! I doubt she is but there is always that sliver of hope I hold onto.

Of course if we ever do get back together we need to talk about what happened and how to manage together. That's a pipe-dream though.

[Polis_Ohio]

Still I have not heard from her about the dissolution. Do I bother reaching out to ask? Should I just assume she did it?

[enlighten me]

Hi Polis

I understand how hard it is for you. Especially waiting to hear something. The not knowing what is happening can make it feel like your going crazy.

Im waiting to hear from my ex wifes lawyer at the moment. It is frustrating but I realise theres nothing I can do but wait. All worrying about it does is make me stressed and whats the point of being stressed over something I have no control over. Don't get me wrong it took me a long time and a lot of emotional pain to get to where I am. Maybe I just got bored of being stressed and that's why I don't do it anymore.

I don't think theres anything that I can say that would make all this go away for you. What I will say is try to take your mind off of it even for a few minutes (Easier said than done I know). By distracting yourself it can help to lower your stress levels. To me it got to a point where the more I stressed the more it led me to stress if that makes sense. It kind of started to power itself.

EM

[Polis_Ohio]

Yes I get that, I get stressed waiting then wonder if she is going to do it or if she is having second thoughts or if she just kept the money I gave her to submit it and now doesn't have enough. Who knows.

I want to talk to her about how she thinks I blame her for everything, which I do not blame her for our relationship issues. My codependency was a major player in it but I just realized that recently. I'm not sure it matters if I tell her or not since she doesn't seem to care some days and does other.

I also found a letter from my step-son's school last spring that says he needs to see an eye dr. I don't think he has ever gone. She needs to take him before he loses my insurance. Opening communication about that might be a mistake though.

[enlighten me]

At this point I think you need to let her do what she has to do. Contacting her may delay things or may speed them up. You just don't know what way it will go. My ex wife dragged out the divorce for a year longer than necessary. Im sure there where things I did that added to this. In the end I couldn't change the inevitable. I wish that I had filed for divorce as I would have had more control over it. She recycled me when I mentioned I wanted a divorce then filed while I was away so I felt a bit hamstrung.

[Polis_Ohio]

Ah well I just shot her a text about her son needing an eye exam. I'll not pursue any more conversation from there then. She probably won't even respond.

[enlighten me]

Im not saying its the wrong thing to do. Your wanting her to tie up loose ends while she can and that is commendable.

If she doesn't respond or responds negatively try not to take it to heart. You've done what you see as morally correct. If she takes it the wrong way then it is out of your control. You cant help how people feel only they can.

[Polis_Ohio]

Yea... .I try not to take what she says to heart.

I hope, deep down, she does still love me. My therapist and friend think she is laden with guilt, treating me poorly so I treat her poorly so she can justify leaving.

I am using all my will power not to search for her on FB or text her anything else. I need to be confident in myself; I feel like I finally figured out what was the root cause of how I acted in our relationship and it's probably too late to do anything with it. As I am reminded by friends, though, I don't know what the future actually holds; I can meet someone I fall for even harder than her or she might be amiable to trying again later.

[4Years5Months]

... .treating me poorly so I treat her poorly so she can justify leaving.

THIS.  My ex did the same thing to me.  She would be passive aggressive, give me the silent treatment, pick fights.  I would then get fed up and get mad back at her in defense, and then she would begin to detach, say we weren't compatible, decide she was going to move to New York, and that it wouldn't work between us.

[Polis_Ohio]

Whelp she said we needed to fill out a completely unnecessary document for our dissolution. She said the court said we needed to.

Then she proceeded to tell me she is on break, asks me how I am doing. Tells me she is working 13 hours today, that she hates working retail, and some other details about her job.

I am not sure why she is asking me this and telling me about her day; just last Friday what she did is none of my business. Doesn't she have a guy she should be talking about this stuff to? No idea but I have to assume so because that's who she is, cannot exist without one. I hope she gets dumped consistently and realizes who she lost one day.

At least she was nice. That's all I can really hope for at this point.

[babyducks]

I am not sure why she is asking me this and telling me about her day; just last Friday what she did is none of my business. Doesn't she have a guy she should be talking about this stuff to?

Hi Polis,

if you feel uncomfortable with the nature/tone of the conversation, do you think it would help you to establish a boundary about how much you sharing you listen to?

'ducks

[Polis_Ohio]

It's not that I'm uncomfortable, in fact we texted a little bit last night. She was a little playful but then suddenly stopped responding. I know she did go to work at her second job but she is allowed to text there when she has time. It was almost like when we were together but she wouldn't stop responding when we were.

I am just confused why she is doing it and also why she suddenly stops. I might not hear from her for days now, she might never reply or she might. It's so weird. I don't get it.

[enlighten me]

My exs do this. It could be that the fact it felt comfortable talking like you did but then she realises your no longer together so has to cut it off.

[Polis_Ohio]

Yes, that may be it. But if I text her today, for instance, she'll respond.

The pattern is she stops talking, then if I follow up with a joke she responds or she'll respond like the next day. However, we haven't really been talking like normal except for this past weekend. It's been weird, like all of a sudden she is not mad and we are talking almost normally, if infrequent. Maybe she is stabilizing?

Meanwhile, I have been reading about codependency and regretting how that flaw in my personality has ruined every relationship and budding relationship I have ever had. I now see that so clearly after my therapist brought up some issues linked to it and we did some hypnotherapy. I haven't been putting myself first and subconsciously refocus my energy to the person I am interested in. I have been working on identifying when I do that and internally refocusing to basically not care what people think of my opinions, to stop molding myself to what I think other people want.

I REALLY want to tell my ex this; I know it will come off as me hoping this will convince her to give us a chance but for some reason I still want to tell her. I'm not saying I blame myself for our issues, I had no idea what was happening, but I also do not blame her like she thinks I do.

[enlighten me]

She may seem to be stabilizing because you were a trigger. The fact that you are no longer with her 24/7 may mean that her feelings don't build up to the level they did.

It may sound odd but I realise just being there was a trigger for my ex. You don't have to do anything or anything much. I worked with a guy who sniffed all the time. At first I didn't notice it. Then once I had I couldn't stop hearing it. It got to the point where I would be grinding my teeth in frustration.

When he changed shifts I hardly saw him and therefor didn't get as wound up as before.

[Polis_Ohio]

Well before she was severely depressed. Our relationship during this time, after she left, was very strange. She used me as emotional support, kept saying how she missed me, wanted me then didn't, lashed out at me, apologized, wanted to see me, then didn't anymore. It was a tumultuous time and really hurt my healing but I was there because she was suicidal and really damaged.

Then she started to level and all of a sudden she doesn't love me or think we can ever work out. 2 weeks she went from wanting to see me to not loving me; that doesn't really seem realistic for a stable person but stable she is not. (As a refresher she has PTSD and is on 225 mg of antidepressant.)

[Polis_Ohio]

It's taking all my will power not to reach out to her again. We had such a good conversation going yesterday despite the mention of the extra paperwork.

[enlighten me]

It is hard not to reach out.

I don't want to sound cynical but something for you to think about is could she be trying to soften you up for the divorce?

Im not saying she is doing this but I thought I should mention it.

[Polis_Ohio]

I have no idea; I don't think she would play a game like that. My guess is she either doesn't have someone else to talk about these things or actually wanted to talk to me then realized she felt something still. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

I really, really want to apologize for blaming her and talk about what I have learned, kind of my breakthrough. I don't know if it'll matter in the long run though.

[babyducks]

Hi Polis,

I understand the urge to reach out hoping to communicate with the person who you shared much of your time and thoughts with.  I can relate to wanting to share some of the things you learned with her.   When I first came here I wanted to talk about some of this with my partner.   In the end I decided not too and that worked out the best for me.

I think it worked out best for two reasons.  the first was because I was still pretty raw from some of the emotional upheaval we had gone through and I needed some time for my own feelings to settle.   and the second was because I needed to establish some personal boundaries around our relationship.  Here is the link.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

for me I needed to establish some personal emotional boundaries around being independent and not personalizing her actions.   I once was very guilty of taking her behavior very personally and that was a bad dynamic for both of us.

you might not be able to apologize for blaming her right now, in this period of time but you also don't know what the future may hold.

what do you think about the link?

'ducks

[Mutt]

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