New - marriage 20 yrs - what do you do next if you suspect spouse has BPD?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all new member

Thank goodness for this support group... many thanks to all the supporters of this place!

Me male married for a long time... .my story sounds familiar ... .recently realised the potential BPD applies in our family. Just reading I seem to have codependency issues... .slowly over the years but surely I've let go any friend work colleagues all for giving more time to the family to make things better... .I've ended up with no one to talk to... greater family another country... .so putting up with crap has been an only option for so long. I was always about giving it all ... it would be enough for me except for the relationship with my wife is awful.

She started off with ott devotion... .giving me so much love ... .slowly but surely it diminished... and issues started to emerge... ,anger over frustrations rages and violent throwing and smashing of objects... episodes I always put down to periods... .first baby... .then second baby... .but then it just kept going throughout the years seemingly irrational to me seemingly without good reason and so instantly as to make no sense to anyone else. Intimacy began to wane... .she started to blame run down... put down... .exclaimed at a party out loud she wanted more sex... .yet when approached she pulled away... .she never came to me... .withdrew any affection... .I got sick... .instead of a caring response she would go out and leave me... .she would walk off in front of me whilst I struggled to walk with my bad legs.  The kids are growing up and I see glimpses of her in them...

Now we are at counselling eldest is getting ongoing treatment... .yet every time me and my wife go she makes out everything is fine and it's all getting better... .but it is not... .she seems to be in total denial of her own issues... .she seems unable to reflect and think I must get help.

She almost does not talk... uhuh is all you get when you try and talk... .she has meltdowns even she does not know why... .holidays have come and gone and she was particularly bad... .pulling herself apart asking me to go I'm giving you permission... I'm so unhappy then starts to blame everyone else except herself for it... .even to me she comes over as a helpless child or victim... .and to my detriment I have responded like a mother... .I realise now doing stuff for her after this behaviour is not a good idea... .as she will do it again.

Her emotions get so intense so quickly I worry for hers and everyone's safety.

Now to the question I have... .the counsellor is not taking my thoughts about her having BPD seriously at the moment... .she think we should just carry on with marriage counselling sessions... she also said she refuses to discuss talking about my wife or the suggestion of BPD

We should see the counsellor  soon again... .what should I do?  My wife hates going to counselling sees it as a waste of time... .when she has been she saysverything is alright... .but after the session she takes it out on me... .I assume for making her go... .what do you do in the situation where a spouse won't help themselves or listen to their spouse.?

[init]

Hi all new member

Thank goodness for this support group... many thanks to all the supporters of this place!

Me male married for a long time... .my story sounds familiar ... .recently realised the potential BPD applies in our family. Just reading I seem to have codependency issues... .slowly over the years but surely I've let go any friend work colleagues all for giving more time to the family to make things better... .I've ended up with no one to talk to... greater family another country... .so putting up with crap has been an only option for so long. I was always about giving it all ... it would be enough for me except for the relationship with my wife is awful.

She started off with ott devotion... .giving me so much love ... .slowly but surely it diminished... and issues started to emerge... ,anger over frustrations rages and violent throwing and smashing of objects... episodes I always put down to periods... .first baby... .then second baby... .but then it just kept going throughout the years seemingly irrational to me seemingly without good reason and so instantly as to make no sense to anyone else. Intimacy began to wane... .she started to blame run down... put down... .exclaimed at a party out loud she wanted more sex... .yet when approached she pulled away... .she never came to me... .withdrew any affection... .I got sick... .instead of a caring response she would go out and leave me... .she would walk off in front of me whilst I struggled to walk with my bad legs.  The kids are growing up and I see glimpses of her in them...

Now we are at counselling eldest is getting ongoing treatment... .yet every time me and my wife go she makes out everything is fine and it's all getting better... .but it is not... .she seems to be in total denial of her own issues... .she seems unable to reflect and think I must get help.

She almost does not talk... uhuh is all you get when you try and talk... .she has meltdowns even she does not know why... .holidays have come and gone and she was particularly bad... .pulling herself apart asking me to go I'm giving you permission... I'm so unhappy then starts to blame everyone else except herself for it... .even to me she comes over as a helpless child or victim... .and to my detriment I have responded like a mother... .I realise now doing stuff for her after this behaviour is not a good idea... .as she will do it again.

Her emotions get so intense so quickly I worry for hers and everyone's safety.

Now to the question I have... .the counsellor is not taking my thoughts about her having BPD seriously at the moment... .she think we should just carry on with marriage counselling sessions... she also said she refuses to discuss talking about my wife or the suggestion of BPD

We should see the counsellor  soon again... .what should I do?  My wife hates going to counselling sees it as a waste of time... .when she has been she saysverything is alright... .but after the session she takes it out on me... .I assume for making her go... .what do you do in the situation where a spouse won't help themselves or listen to their spouse.?

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[LilMe]

  Welcome! The first step to improving my life with a pwBPD was accepting that I can't change them, but I can change my reactions to them. The lessons and resources here are very helpful! I'm glad you found us but sad you are dealing with this 

[an0ught]

Hi init,

MC has not a good track record with BPD. One reason is that the framework is problem oriented and can be too invalidating for a distressed pwBPD. Sounds like your wife is not feeling safe enough in that setup.

Now having any framework can be better than no framework. But maybe this framework could be tuned to having a lot less MC and more individual sessions? Because the latter are needed. Both(!) sides need to heal and become stronger. I know the counselor doesn't feel so good about it but what if you found a solution for yourself and then suggest to your wife to do the same? After all she is not perfectly happy with the status quo.

,

a0

[init]

Many thanks for the response !

We are just off to an mc session so an0ght great timing... !

I've tried many times in the past for her to go to her own sessions without her saying yes... will suggest it in the mc session... slim chance I think... but will try!  She hates talking about her feelings to me or to anyone who could question her.

[init]

Just back from the mc session... .and a little win win!   She has an appointment... .will she keep it... .?  hmmm ... time will tell!  Interesting to hear the counsellor jump on me hard when she complained about me being an issue... .she said her last rage trigger was because we were spending too much time together... there is no doubt I'm part of the problem but I see it as a mis direction... .I held my own keeping to the facts and finally got it out and accepted by all that the wife has major instant ott rage issues... she always has... even in the first few weeks of us meeting... .and that it has gone on for years and years... .counsellor though treats us as just a normal couple where the guy isn't doing something and should change... .never the other way... .anyway interesting at least!  I take every minute as it comes... .I see that the sheer scope of the issues are not seen by the counsellor as of yet. I see her on my own next week... .will be able to discuss it much more then... .question: why do they always assume the guys gonna be the problem and has to do something he is not doing... .we have had four sessions wife cried every time and the counsellor has come down hard on me... .this time it was because I don't have enough friends and thus not bringing enough enrichment into my wife's life... .!  Anyway I'm cool !  I know if this does not work then I know I will need to bite a nasty bullet... .I'm doing everything I can to work something out.

[formflier]

 She has an appointment... .will she keep it... .?  hmmm ... time will tell! 

 

Init,

I'm at the 20 year point as well.  I'm over 1.5 years... .getting close to two years of knowing about BPD and working hard on tools. 

The tools are effective when applied consistently.

Think for a bit here... .both of you have 20 years of habits.  A dynamic that has (for various reasons) worked for you for a long time. 

You are at a place (and hopefully wife is as well) where you realize the dynamic doesn't work anymore... .or shouldn't work anymore. 

Let's be clear... .are you at that place now??  If not... .let us know where you are...

You are early in this process.  Focus on your education about BPD and small steps YOU can make to change the dynamic.

Few "tactical" points to consider.

1.  Stop trying to "sell" BPD to wife and counselors.  Drop labels... .describe behaviors in a non blaming way.

2.  Focus on what you can learn out of MC about your role in the r/s.  Resist "keeping score".  As far as who the counselor was "harder" on.

Do you have a counselor for you (not the MC)?

I'm glad you are here.  We can help you change your r/s for the better.

FF

[init]

Hi formfier

Thanks for your reply... .you make some excellent points about habits.

My wife isn't at at that stage ... .I have been ready to change for years ... .I don't tell my wife she has BPD... only mentioned it to the mc in a text last week... .though my daughter has issues and her phsychiatrist has suggested from hearing our history that wife could have BPD ... he stressed he needs to do a clinical evaluation... yet he said it does run in families and could help explain the traits being seen in our daughter. 

Now some really bad news ... .came home from a meal out with wife... .the evening was ok... .though my wife was saying things at the table like... .if you leave I wouldn't follow... I found that odd... .as well as a lack of connection throughout the evening.

When we got home... .daughter started to talk to me... .I looked briefly at her hand gestures and saw injuries blood scabs... .I asked her what were they... she immediately got upset ran off and slammed the door... .she locked it... .I went to talk to the wife about it... .she said yeah I know... .it's nothing!  I said what do you mean it's nothing... .she said again I don't think it's anything bad... .wife said she had a chat with daughter and it's all good.

I then received a couple of texts from daughter saying I don't care I can do what I like... .

At this point ... how would you view my situation.

I have the mc continuing to tell me to not get involved with my daughter... which is my wife's wish.

It's pulling me apart ... .

I don't have another counsellor... .I wish there was a balanced voice of influence... .  All through these issues is a pattern of denial by my wife as to the severity of our relationship and to the severity of the issues of our daughter is an obvious pattern.

Idk how to make this better... .clearly I have pondered this all through a sleepless night... .I feel impotent in effective here... as both a parent and as a husband... .To me it's like she is trying to control all of us at the same time ... I find it all so crazy today... I keep thinking right now I should go.

[formflier]

 

OK... .wow... .new to your story and trying to catch up.

Please have a conversation with your MC about why to not be involved with daughter... .especially given scabs which could be apparent cutting.

It would appear you and your wife are not on same page with parenting.  Correct?

How old is daughter? 

May want to ask MC for a referral to a family therapist for parenting/child issues and let MC stick to you and wife r/s issues.

FF

[init]

Hi FF

I'm seeing mc again soon... this time one on one.

Yes we do not agree always on parenting... but it's a bit more complex than simply that.

It all comes back to relarions... relating... communicating... .deeper or higher levels of understanding of one another... .none of which occur.

She would agree on a parenting plan of action one minute then act differently the next... or she will agree... then undermine the agreement if I'm acting on it... .

Basically a lot of undermining of me making my parenting ineffective... so much so she appears anti fathers influence... .she resents her own fathers (especially) and also the complicit mothers parenting efforts.

Of course it doesn't make it easier for me when the mc tells me I have to back out of trying to parent... .stop talking and sit back and let the wife run with it.

I get it that we need consistency... .but the mc is pushing me aside at my cost... and I'm not sure the outcome to my dd... .It's all foggy... .but I feel pushed out.

There is a lot going on... too much for this post but at least it may explain how I'm feeling about the situation... .when I see the mc on my own I will be able at least to give information that will at the least I hope put some focus at last on my wife.

I will also be asking her if she could explain why on earth am I putting up with it... .I really don't know but it's not something my logical mind accepts.

[formflier]

 

I would ask mc how the advice works into the treatment plan.

Listen, ask follow up questions.

Remember... .describe symptoms... .don't try to diagnose.

FF

[init]

FF

Wlldo

That's really good  advice and a timely reminder !

From our last joint session I did finally get it out to the mc that she has rages/loses it... and almost full acknowledgement from the wife... .so I need to focus my efforts on describing her behaviour during and around these events... .lots to tell!

Cheers

[formflier]

 

Yes... .describe... .don't label.

"Help me understand how better to respond when my wife... .xyz"

"How can I be a supportive partner when... xyz"

Much much better than "My wife does xyz and she should get that fixed... "

The goal here is that you understand what you can do in a situation for the good of the relationship.

FF

[init]

Thanks FF

Mate hope you are going ok  atm 

I'm back after my one on one mc session ... .Good n bad result...   Good she listened... .She admitted that she hadn't heard of BPD ! ... So not so good... .I'm not sure where we can go from here given she has no clue about it  .

My impression is that although she has some idea of what I'm dealing with... she hasn't realised the scale of the thing.

Any ideas of how to proceed most appreciated... I'm in Australia ... if anyone can recommend a T. Please message me if you prefer... .

Thanks

[init]

Just wanting to ask the long time relationshippers... .have you found that your pwBPD becomes more emotionally abusive the longer the relationship goes?  It has for me and yet she seems oblivious to what she does... I'm desperate to find a T in Australia who has some experience with this... .both my dd and wife have issues... ... .I'm .trying to use validation but her habits of put downs and trying to dominate with nasty comments seem to be unstoppable... .

[formflier]

Just wanting to ask the long time relationshippers... .have you found that your pwBPD becomes more emotionally abusive the longer the relationship goes?

If left "unchecked" by effective use of tools and lessons... .I would say absolutely yes it gets worse.

That happened in my relationship until I read SWOE (stop walking on eggshells) and found this site.  Then I realized I had been doing it "all wrong"... .even though it made sense to me.

Many of the tools and strategies will not seem natural to you when you first use them.

She will most likely get worse before she gets better as she attempts to regain control.  Be prepared for this.

Yes, finding a MC and a T for you that is familiar with BPD will help immensely.  I would not wait until you fine one.

Using a MC that has no idea about BPD could be dangerous and counterproductive.  Be careful there.  Some of the advice I got "pre-BPD" knowledge made things worse.

Do you have SWOE? 

Can you give us a quick example of something that she is doing that is bothersome... .we'll try to get you on the right track with lessons.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be much help with finding a T in Australia.  We can help you evaluate if you MC is helping, hurting, or neutral.

FF

[EaglesJuju]

Hi init,

I can imagine how difficult this has been for you.   With all that has been going on, it is easy to forget about yourself. I have done that myself when my bf has been emotionally volatile in the past. I found that having an external support group of friends and family really helped me alleviate stress. Do you have a support group of friends and family? Sometimes we need to be reminded to engage in self care, especially when things become stressful.

I think FF made a good point of looking for a therapist that works with families. When looking for a therapist, you can look for specializations and areas of expertise. Many psychologists specialize in treating BPD, either a psychologist with a PhD or a PsyD.

If this is an option that appeals to you, you can bring it up in a positive way, such as, "I think that going to a family therapist will help me learn to understand and support both of you better. Also, I think it will help us become more closer and stronger."

[waverider]

Just wanting to ask the long time relationshippers... .have you found that your pwBPD becomes more emotionally abusive the longer the relationship goes?  It has for me and yet she seems oblivious to what she does... I'm desperate to find a T in Australia who has some experience with this... .both my dd and wife have issues... ... .I'm .trying to use validation but her habits of put downs and trying to dominate with nasty comments seem to be unstoppable... .

Left unchecked it certainly gets worse. as you become more aware of what is happening it becomes less acceptable. So you try to change things. This shifts the status quo, she reacts accordingly trying to get things back to how they where (your awareness becomes a trigger) out of fear of not being in the drivers seat. Your frustrations increase... Things get worse unless you direct things appropriately.

One of the biggest issues we have is that we have attempted over the years to address things ineffectively, which is inevitable without full understanding of BPD. Unfortunately, this also applies to professional therapy which is not targeted. Most therapist do not del with BPD, MC leaves it out of the equation. The result is reinforecement that therapy is a waste of time. Hence the pwBPD sees no point in it, as it simply means they have to bare their sole to their fears to little avail.

The two of you go around in frustration, achieving nothing, both being triggered and frustration and blaming each other. Things get worse you become bigger antagonists rather than on the same "team'.

I am in Aus too and and very familiar with the dead ends in trying to get into BPD specific treatment, even with eagerness on the part of pwBPD. The path toward DBT etc is not as available as it seems to those based in other parts of the world.

So what to do?

Work on minimizing the effects of this on you rather than guiding your wife to, and through treatment. That wont happen until she is open to it. The aim of this is to lower tensions and minimize conflict. Nothing will be achieved while this is happening, otherwise too much energy is spent combating each other rather than the disorder.

The path toward treatment starts with your wife desperately wanting to resolve her issues rather than just pass them onto you, which is really a form of avoidance. You need to cut out this projection path, so she looks for the answers elsewhere. Ultimately you will need to go via psychiatrists to accurately diagnose BPD and direct her towards specific services, otherwise you will go around in endless circles with MCs and various Ts who will have little impact other than make it all seem futile. pwBPD have little tolerance for failure and give up easily. You wil spend a lot of energy feeling you are going nowhere. BPD in Australia has a low profile, though more resources are being directed that way, it is still low on awareness even among the medical profession. Many who are aware of it simply identify it as something they have little influence over.

As you have noted we become codependent, even if we didn't start out that way. ultimately they train us to be someone they can't respect.

These dynamics have taken years to become entrenched as normal. Any reversal will take a long time, you are trying to modify two personalities, one of which is particularly resistant. Awareness of the problem shines light on issues we were once ignorant of, the path seems forever longer, so it is important to keep looking back to check you are making progress.

To answer your question as to do they become more abusive, this can be the case. Increasing frustration, and fear of change out of their  control. As you learn boundaries (and this is not as simple as it seams) you will experience extinction burst.  The first boundaries are the hardest, as you are introducing a new concept and setting a new precedent that you actually have boundaries and are willing to enforce them.

If she feels you are pulling away she is likely to push you away, as a means of trying to gain control over that dynamic.

You being stable and not reactive is the best way to help your daughter, ie remain drama free. Self harm is common, don't go into melt down over it or she will clam up and it will escalate

Good luck it is a hard and long journey, there are no quick fixes.

Waverider

[formflier]

  Any reversal will take a long time, you are trying to modify two personalities, one of which is particularly resistant. 

Waverider,

Wonderful post... .

This is a great way to look at it.

FF

[init]

Thank you all for your posts... .thank you for sharing your knowledge experiences and advice.

Priority issues as I see them for me:

In no particular order... all prio I think.

1/ undiagnosed wife not yet at a stage where she is willing herself to seek and engage in treatment... .much more she is still engaging in a level of avoidance rather than face it.

2/ I have conversed with dd's psych about my wife ... .who says ... he thinks BPD for my wife from the history I presented and says that dd is def showing some of these traits... .but also that dd is too young for DBT at this stage... .his advice was all of us to continue to see the mc!

3/ Unsure if current T (mc) knows BPD... .mc asked me what BPD stood for at last consult... .maybe it was just a miscommunication... .I asked the psych if he could recommend anyone who specialises in BPD therapy... .he just said keep going to the same mc and he said he is sure she would  know BPD.

4/ I have Zero family or friends... and I no longer work due to chronic ill health... .I have family but in another country... and only one member... and she cannot understand it... .I have tried to explain... no sugar coating... .but it must be hard... .as the face that upwBPD has always portrayed is of a bubbly everything is good scenario... .I have no friends at all... .she has friends... so it's completely lopsided as far as codependency... .yes for sure... .I'm aware... also aware I gave up on my needs some time ago... .feel complicit for my part in this.

In answering these issues myself:

1/ So I can't fix number 1... bit of a deal breaker isn't it ? She has an apt with mc... but will she go... doubt imo... .will the mc do the right thing bearing in mind BPD ... .will find out soon I guess.

2/ Number two... can't get DBT ATM  for dd as she is too young

3/ Number three... I can put the mc on the spot at next consult and ask her directly what experience has she with BPD therapy... .or not... if answer is wishy washy then idk where to go... .

I could tell the psych... .and try and push more for some T with BPD experience... .

4/ Lastly number four... join some activities that are not overly taxing and have something more in my life... .there is an art class I'd like to try...

I should mention ... she has been controlling intimacy and affection... .withholding withdrawing... .to the point now... if I wanted some she would allow you to come close only to then to say that's enough ... your too close... .

Now I don't bother to try as it makes you feel like you are in one way begging... it feels dehumanising if that's the right word... .

So no intimacy ... .heaps at the beginning... .sliding sliding... .diminishing... .until now ... .nothing for a long time.

[init]

Just made an observation wanted to express...

It seems like... .left to their own devices... these behaviour patterns multiply and amplify in response even to just the same perceived threats... the longer time progresses.

I was having trouble understanding why after such a long relationship would ones behaviour negatively increase when it is obviously giving increasing stability and security... .fulfilling one would expect one of their core needs.

Is it the mind sees there is increasingly more to lose ?

Is it a pattern that negative behaviours multiply and amplify over time... .unless addressed.

In spite of all the issues she functions at a high level in her workplace... .seemingly no issues...

[init]

In my quest finding a BPD T and coming up short

Came across AJ Marahi on the Internet... .heard of her?

Anyone any experience with recieving help from her?

She offers 'coaching' for a fee.

Though it would only be for me at this time... .

[formflier]

 

In response to your pattern post.

Please look at it as a dynamic in which YOU play a role. 

I'm not saying that things are the "fault" of the non (that's you) but I am saying that the role of the non is critical in the r/s getting worse... .or better.

Many times a non tries to help and ends up INVALIDATING the pwBPDs feelings.  If this continues to happen if deepens and "sets in stone" dysfunctional patterns.

I did this in my r/s.  I "proved" my love and trustworthiness... .over and over.  This made my wife look harder and harder for the "cheater" that she "felt" me to be. 

Once I stopped trying to "prove" something... .over time... .she stopped looking.

Note on internet "coaching".  Be very careful.  I'm not saying that bpdfamily is the only safe place... .but I do know there is lots of bad info out there.

Think long and hard before accepting any internet coaching... .lots of due diligence.

FF

[init]

Thanks FF ... yes... .I believe I'm doing much better for some time with her... yet she is resistant reluctant... .still waiting for her to engage in a more pleasant way... .not expecting anything good yet... as said its years of pattern/habits ... .also I think she is wary that I could go... .she has recently said to me... .If you go I wouldn't chase you... .not sure what that really means... double bluff or something... but the reference is about leaving... .she also has said not long after a rage/meltdown that she gives me permission to leave... .another strange comment ... .but anyway it is what it is especially ATM!

Cheers

[waverider]

TBH spending a fair amount of time here talking things through and helping others will give you the strongest foundation, as you need lots of time to drip feed slowly to let perspectives reveal themselves. Online courses, and even books are not the quick fix you may hope for. Not saying they are of no use, but they are a very small return on investment. I would think of them as a side tool which often work better when you are already in a position to see there relevance to your own situation.

Targeted on hand discussion with your own peers who sit in your shoes will reveal more. You need to say and be told the same thing over and over before it becomes natural and instinctive. The theory can be simple at times but the application is often very fragile. It takes peer support to overcome those times.

May sound silly but we need others to remind us that this is about learning how to smell the roses again rather than constantly sifting through the compost heap trying to discover the perfect fertilizer.

[init]

Waverider you Make total sense... .thankyou... .!

[formflier]

 

Not all the ideas or ways of doing things that you will grasp are really good. 

A group of people (us at bpdfamily) will have the multiple perspectives needed to show you a different pathway.

I find is especially important to hear the female perspective on here.  You have to remember that somewhere in there (in all those BPD traits) is the heart of a woman that you love.  That heart still needs to be wooed, loved and cared for.

Not every thing that a woman with BPD traits does is because of dysfunction. 

Offhand I remember changing my tactics, because of female input on here, when my wife was upset and trying to be controlling about house chores after she went back to work. 

The female perspective helped me be more empathetic.

All of this to say... likelihood I would have ever gotten this from one person or one course... .is quite low.

FF

[init]

Thanks FF. ... .I think your right to see this from both sides will help.

I've got one major issue... .Wife and dd... .they trigger each other... .probably requires a new thread in a more appropriate group.

Love... yes I've forgotten how that feels... been so many years now... .!  Can it be regained... .I see that things could be made better... but is it too much to think that it's possible to feel love from her again... I question these days if it was love at the beginning or something else.

[formflier]

 

It was love at the beginning... .remember it the way it was.  Don't overthink it.

It's love now as well.  Love is a feeling... .it's also a decision.  You have made a decision to stay and to love someone that at times acts unlovable.

When you don't "feel" it... .focus on the decision.  Stay away from thinking that you are obligated.

If you have decisions to make... .you have power.  If you have power... .you have hope.

The feeling will come back.  It may not stay forever, but it will come back.

This past Sunday was one of the best days I can remember in years.  I even made a post about it.  I don't think I can remember one cross word the entire day.  Lots of "lovey" behavior. 

When it comes around... .enjoy it... .feel the warmth. 

FF

[waverider]

Not every thing that a woman with BPD traits does is because of dysfunction. 

I've got one major issue... .Wife and dd... .they trigger each other... .probably requires a new thread in a more appropriate group.

Yes dont get tied into blaming BPD for everything ,or that she is always inappropriate and you are always right, that can create an invalidating mind set too.

Mums and daughters often trigger each other to an extend that the male mind just can get its head around. Much the same as males can go head to head in a way that a female mind sees as a greater drama than it really is.

[init]

Thanks again guys for your helpful replies!

It's been a couple of days and I can report a bit of an improvement in the relationship... .this is mostly I feel related to me looking at and after myself and responses mainly.

What concerns me still is that the wife is mirroring me big time... .so I guess I have to try and not let that set a cycle in motion... .I think I'm starting to see that 'she' has/lives her relationship with me through me... .does that make sense?  It's been as if many times I'm talking to myself when I'm talking to her... .

Yet she is who she is... .she works ... she talks she walks... but part of this is definitely she mirrors... .I assume she is trying to re-attach more again... .

I do have a constant sometimes background sometimes fore when she will start to project in one of the bad ways she is capable of.

When dd and upwBPD trigger each other ... .I meant to say that it causes dysregulation for both ... .will save this further for the more appropriate group.