No Weed = Suicide Threats

[Depression = 72% of members]

My UBPDGF smokes a lot of pot, I mean a whole lot. When she does, she seems to be relatively okay. When she is out of pot, or knows she is going to run out, she becomes suicidal. She only self medicates with weed and is on no other medication. She is on welfare and can't seem to find a job and she has 3 kids at home, so she is broke.  We have been together (between a few recycles) fo 2 1/2 years. 6 months ago she was able to move into her own house after living with me for 2 years. She has had rent and utilities paid through an assistance progrm but that ends next month and she is freaking out. She claims moving back in is not an option for reasons worthy of another post. She is dumping me so she can "Take desperate measures/ Date for money" because I won't move in with her or marry her right now. Is is fair to think that since she seems to be under control when she is high, that smoking is an acceptable alternative to other meds? Has anyone here had any similar experience? I have searched for similar posts but nothing quite fit my questions. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[landj]

My UBPDGF smokes a lot of pot, I mean a whole lot. When she does, she seems to be relatively okay. When she is out of pot, or knows she is going to run out, she becomes suicidal. She only self medicates with weed and is on no other medication. She is on welfare and can't seem to find a job and she has 3 kids at home, so she is broke.  We have been together (between a few recycles) fo 2 1/2 years. 6 months ago she was able to move into her own house after living with me for 2 years. She has had rent and utilities paid through an assistance progrm but that ends next month and she is freaking out. She claims moving back in is not an option for reasons worthy of another post. She is dumping me so she can "Take desperate measures/ Date for money" because I won't move in with her or marry her right now. Is is fair to think that since she seems to be under control when she is high, that smoking is an acceptable alternative to other meds? Has anyone here had any similar experience? I have searched for similar posts but nothing quite fit my questions. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MapleBob]

Oh, she's pretty clearly self-medicating. Probably "numbing out" with pot to get through her stress. Honestly she could be choosing a lot worse coping mechanisms - so my advice to HER would be to keep smoking, as it keeps her somewhat regulated, and focus on baseline safety, like where to live? How to make money? Then focus on the self-medicating.

For you, this sounds like an awful situation, and you need to assess whether or not it's worth it to go down with this ship.

[ColdEthyl]

I'm sure this will not be a popular view, but I self medicate with weed. I am not BPD my husband is, but I do have generalized anxiety disorder. Marijuana slows my brain down and relaxes me.

With that being said, I don't smoke it 24/7. I do after work when my children have gone to bed to help me sleep. I don't smoke when I have to drive, go anywhere, do chores, etc.

I'm concerned about how much she is smoking. That can get quite expensive if it's an all day thing.

Self medication among BPDers is fairly common. My husband drinks... .though he has done well this past year cutting down quite a bit. He does not take any meds. He refuses to go to a therapist.

[landj]

Thanks for the replies.  She does smoke for the numbing effect and she knows that. I agree she could do worse than pot but I guess my concern is that it just a band-aid and keeping her from doing what it would take to start to heal. She feels like if her older kids and me loved her, we would never let her run out of pot because we know it keeps her from acting suicidal (most of the time anyway). She says that when she smokes it helps her escape from being "the worthless whore that I really am". And it is an expensive ordeal that doesn't show any sign of letting up.  Honestly, I am posting because I wondered if anyone had gone through a similar experience. This relationship may be over as I write this, but I have thought that before and wound up back together. I have learned so much from this site and others, and the research it has led me to. I really care about this lady and her kids and I have learned that I can't fix things but I still feel like I could be the positive support she could lean on. If I get/have been replaced, I guess I'm ready for that too. Again, thank you.

[Jungle_jake]

I can relate a lot to your post.  My BPDgf smoked occasionally when we met.  But over time she started smoking more and more regularly and now she's pretty much dependent on it.  Anxiety is a HUGE trigger for her and the weed helps that.  She likes it because the relief is immediate.  I think it's an acceptable alternative, but unfortunately the law in my state doesn't.  I'm a fairly regular smoker myself.  It helps me unwind after work.  She smokes from morning to bedtime and gets irritable if she doesn't have it, but thankfully not suicidal.  It is expensive, but in my situation since we both smoke it, we both help pay for it.

It is difficult for some BPD's to find and hold down jobs.  If your gf is that dependent on weed, she's going to need to work to pay for that and her other responsibilities.  And having sex for money is not a healthy way to do it. My BPDgf has also threatened to do that because she has in the past and knows it's a quick way to make a buck.  That's a huge deal breaker for me.  Thankfully, my gf found work through our job center.  They set her up with a temp agency that specializes in finding work for those who are mentally ill.  She seems to be doing well at her job, but unfortunately it is temporary and things are up in the air right now as far as what's going to happen when this job ends.  For your situation, I think that would be a good place to start.  

[Chilibean13]

My H meltdowns when he is out of weed too. He smokes non-stop, except when he is at work. He usually gets it on Friday and by Wednesday he is out. Wednesdays and Thursdays are always rough days for us. He does not get suicidal, but a few weeks ago, his dealer couldn't get more for him and he had to go through almost the whole weekend. Needless to say, he dysregulated ALOT that weekend. He became severely depressed. He kept lashing out at me even though it was his dealer he was really upset with. Personally, I really don't care if he smokes. He functions well on it and it just takes the edge off. I'd rather him smoke pot than drink, gamble, or do any harder drugs. The only issue is that it's illegal so he takes a risk of getting caught and I've made it well known that if he does, that he will have to deal with the consequences. It doesn't affect us financially because every pay day, we each get an "allowance" that we can spend however we want to spend it, without questions. He buys weed with his. I buy lunch with mine.

If were to dip into our gas, food, bill money, he knows that he gets less personal cash next time, which means he will have to make his weed stretch further.

One thing I do is:

1. When I know he is going to be out (usually on Wednesday) I prepare myself for the emotional withdraw he will have. I have to keep telling myself that his brain is not functioning at its normal state and he is unable to handle life due to the extra noise coming in. THis means that I MUST make sure that I have detached myself enough to NOT react to him.

2. Validate. Validate. Validate.

3. If he begins to sink into depression with lots of irritation, sadness, etc. (especially if he directs it at me) I ask him how he feels about being out of weed. I will ask him if he thinks that could be affecting his mood. I remind him that this is temporary and that his dealer will get ahold of him soon. Usually this will lead to him acknowledging that he is depressed due to being out. He may cry. Once he cries, he is golden. He got his emotion out and dealt with it. He can see a lot clearer then.

[wundress]

Hi

Thought I might give an alternative view. I'll state from the start that I am strongly anti drugs including weed.

My wife with BPD smoked weed from age 11 to age 17. She got herself clean with no support. She realised even at that age that weed does not stop the pain. It causes new pain, self hate, debt, paranoia and lethargy.

Surely smoking weed is as bad as using alcohol? I'm not really sure why it seems to be becoming more acceptable. I don't wish to criticise those who are struggling but it just seems to be avoidance to me. I'd have thought that addressing the real issues would be the answer? I feel for the children of weed addicts. They are going to grow up with parents who are emotionally unavailable and will grow up with the belief that the only way to be happy is to abuse substances.

[landj]

I appreciate everyone's insight.  Even though she told me to stay away and never contact her again, she still blames me and her older kids for letting her run out of pot. She calls and screams that she is killing herself and hangs up on me. She seems okay now. Her daughter texts me and keeps me informed, and she handles things better than any kid her age could be expected to. It is really wearing me down. My gf says now that she is leaving the country with her 2 youngest on the 1st of the month, when she gets welfare, to be homeless in a warm climate. I wish she would get help. Not meds as much as therapy. But she claims she is smarter than all the people who she has tried. And to her, pot is a miracle that keeps her inner demon from coming out and reliving the horriffic things of her past... I am learning alot about how to control my anxiety. Either that or my heart is going to explode. 

[ColdEthyl]

Hi

Thought I might give an alternative view. I'll state from the start that I am strongly anti drugs including weed.

My wife with BPD smoked weed from age 11 to age 17. She got herself clean with no support. She realised even at that age that weed does not stop the pain. It causes new pain, self hate, debt, paranoia and lethargy.

Surely smoking weed is as bad as using alcohol? I'm not really sure why it seems to be becoming more acceptable. I don't wish to criticise those who are struggling but it just seems to be avoidance to me. I'd have thought that addressing the real issues would be the answer? I feel for the children of weed addicts. They are going to grow up with parents who are emotionally unavailable and will grow up with the belief that the only way to be happy is to abuse substances.

No... .it's not as bad as alcohol. Alcohol severely relaxes your inhibitions, you blackout, you can't remember or know what you are doing, and you can overdose and die... .not to mention drive and kill someone. Weed doesn't do any of that.

Emotionally unavailable? huh? How do you assume that? I myself said I do it when my kids are in bed. I can't speak for everyone... .certainly there are people out there not as responsible with their vices, but alas I can only speak for myself.

" I don't wish to criticise those who are struggling but it just seems to be avoidance to me. I'd have thought that addressing the real issues would be the answer?"

As far as avoidance... .yes. It is. That would be the entire point behind addictions... .people trying to self medicate. Some people use drugs... .some drink... .some use food... .some over exercise... .pick your poison. We all do it... .just in different forms.

This post is about a person with BPD. avoidance and not addressing real issues is kind of a feature of BPD. That's... .a given. So... .yeah.

@landj I'm so sorry, hun. There's not much you can do in that situation. Sorry to hear about the kiddo, too. Must be tough. Super tough to have you watch, too. My husband says he's smarter than all psychiatrists and he doesn't trust them, either.

[wundress]

Actually you can overdose on weed, you can drive and kill someone and it has severe consequences on the brain. People do black out on weed. I think people conveniently forget that it can have an awful affect on mental health and that it impairs judgement just as alcohol can so it is illegal to drive having smoked it. Do you not worry that one of your kids may be taken ill on the night and both of you have smoked weed and would not be able to get uour child to hospital?

Just because recently it has been used in limited medical situations doesn't mean it should be assumed that using it recreationally is fine.

If you also smoke it then I don't see how she can be expected to get clean and address her issues. You are enabling her and showing her that avoiding issues is OK. If you feel the need to smoke it then maybe you need to also address something in your life?

I meant that if parents are stoned off their faces then they are not emotionally available for their children.  I have seen the devastating affect weed can have on families.

[Cat Familiar]

My ex-husband grew weed and had a never-ending supply. He smoked like a chimney. People develop tolerance for pot and I disagree that it is equivalent to alcohol regarding dangerous driving. Typically people who are stoned drive too slowly, unlike people who are drunk.

I'd agree with wundress about overdosing on edibles, but it would be harder to do smoking. Most likely someone would fall asleep before they could overdose smoking--unless they're smoking very concentrated forms--which is beyond my experience from many years ago.

People alter their consciousness on a variety of things. This practice is as old as mankind. Just look at anthropological studies throughout the world. Every culture has something they use to change their mental state. (In the USA--it's buying stuff! Happy Holidays!) Any practice can be misused, overused, abused.

Anyway, I was in the position years ago to see the overuse of marijuana by many people in the growing industry and I'm a bit conflicted about total legalization. However, if people want to use it, I'd much rather see it used than alcohol or any of the other drugs currently being abused in our culture.

My problem stems from weed's tendency to make people become apathetic and lethargic. This is not helpful for young adults who need to be motivated to succeed in school or their careers.

I also think it has troubling effects upon people with BPD. I think my ex-husband used it to avoid confronting the consequences of his behavior. My current husband occasionally smokes along with drinking alcohol and it makes him act a bit crazy. He can dysregulate when he drinks too much, but add pot and his dysregulations become a bit psychotic--not so much in behavior, but in thinking.

So, I can certainly see good coming from marijuana: it opens up creative thinking, it helps with relaxation, it certainly has been proven to have positive health benefits for people suffering from a variety of maladies and it has anti-carcinogenic properties. It needs to be utilized with mindfulness.

[ColdEthyl]

Actually you can overdose on weed, you can drive and kill someone and it has severe consequences on the brain. People do black out on weed.

False. Prove it with documentation. You can't, because it's false. You can be against whatever you want to, that's your right. But, spreading false info is not cool.

":)o you not worry that one of your kids may be taken ill on the night and both of you have smoked weed and would not be able to get uour child to hospital?"

No. I can drive. The amount I smoke wears off in an hour or two. I smoke it to relax and sleep. Not some sort of Cheech and Chong movie.

Typically people who are stoned drive too slowly, unlike people who are drunk.

*nods*

People alter their consciousness on a variety of things. This practice is as old as mankind. Just look at anthropological studies throughout the world. Every culture has something they use to change their mental state. (In the USA--it's buying stuff! Happy Holidays!) Any practice can be misused, overused, abused.

*nods again*


"If you also smoke it then I don't see how she can be expected to get clean and address her issues. You are enabling her and showing her that avoiding issues is OK. If you feel the need to smoke it then maybe you need to also address something in your life?"

I'm not the OP, so this doesn't really have anything to do with my statements. I have a lot I have to address in my life. I was sexually molested growing up, and I just found out 2 weeks ago that my late ex husband was molesting my daughter and I had no clue. Do you have some sort of magic sagely advice that's going to all of sudden make me not have an addictive personality? Everything is just going to go away and I will feel all better again? I didn't think so. Truth is, I haven't felt "good" since I was 8 years old.

I'm trying really hard not to be offended or angry, but there's a whole lot of judgement coming from your end of the table. You can believe in what you want, but it's not cool to judge others for dealing with what they have to. We ALL have demons. One isn't always better or worse than another.

[ColdEthyl]

You know what... .I'm sorry I posted what I did. I apologize. I have hi-jacked the OP's thread, and that's not cool. I won't be posting in this thread any longer. Sorry if i got hateful. I really dislike the spreading of misinformation and fear mongering.

[landj]

You know what... .I'm sorry I posted what I did. I apologize. I have hi-jacked the OP's thread, and that's not cool. I won't be posting in this thread any longer. Sorry if i got hateful. I really dislike the spreading of misinformation and fear mongering.

I don't feel like you have hijacked my post. Once again, thank you all for your responses. It is good for me to get everyone's opinion because I want to do the right thing but I can only base my judgement on other peoples experience. It is expensive and shows no sign of getting better. She is 41 and has only smoked for a few years. She drank alot before that but now she only smokes pot, that's it. I feel like as time is going by she is getting more suicidal. Today, when I took her to get her sick child from school, she jumped out of the car screaming in public that she was going to commit sucide because I won't marry her. A few days ago she told me never to contact her again and started posting ads for my replacement I guess (although she seems to just want to find friends or smoke buddies). She is coming down to a deadline where the rent will be due and can't seem to do anything to make money. She is very intelligent and pretty but can't seem to earn any money. She feels like if we were partners, we would be together sharing the expenses (even though she moved out of my house livng rent free to move into her own place where her business might succeed).  I am not ready to marry her or even move out of my mortgaged home and pay rent. At least not right now anyway. She is welcome to move back in but that doesn't seem to be an option for her. Sorry for rambling (and no, I'm not high). I haven't been sleeping and have been going into a fog. For the record, I don't currently smoke weed. I guess my feeling is that since she uses it as medication, constantly, it is keeping her from getting to the deep rooted issues that may allow her to heal. Thanks for letting me vent. I am scared to death she will try something bad.

[thisworld]

My opinion. Nope, self-medication at this level is not OK. I'll share my story with you; it certainly doesn't mean what is awaiting you but maybe it can be of help in its own way.

I can imagine someone else winding down with it and still being functional to some level but unfortunately, you girlfriend seems to have passed well beyond this stage. So did my ex partner who was a long-time opiate addict on suboxone, who dropped suboxone, recovery programme and went on what he called a "substitute" method. Now you may think pot is nothing compared to opiates and you would be right, my ex-partner's physiology is probably very different from your GF but when someone is addicted (and yes, pot is psychologically addictive, she is talking about suicide for instance) their problem-solving methods are usually very similar and seldom constructive. Again, you may think these would never happen to your GF and my ex partner was a riskier example, but I think someone thinking of suicide when they run of their substance of choice and blaming their children for it is a serious enough case. My ex-partner did never mention such an emotional connection with opiates -I'll commit suicide if I don't get my substance- but here is what he did: so he drops suboxone, drops recovery, has already access to a huge list of prescribed stuff like Xanax and equivalents and sleeping pills in addition to pot. Pot made him relax. But he started consuming more and more and said it was about relaxation. It wasn't actually. He was already taking xanax and whatnot two three times more than the prescribed dosage, which should relax him really (despite the fact that his body is used to opiates). No, he also liked pot. Self-medication doesn't mean there is pleasure. So, the amount increased, it was hard to afford, so he switched to THC which is a different animal. Comes faster and stronger, goes faster. More discomfort as well. Soon he was smoking THC all day and was a mess. This so-called relaxation took away all his abilities to cope with BPD in a constructive way and soon different triggers and reactions started to happen. He was able to rage and show violence with lots of xanax and everything else in his system (and usually xanax doesn't have adverse effects on him) - this isn't physiologically related to opiates, he had been clean for 3 months then and is more related with BPD problems because it started happening when I raised some boundaries related to completely irrelevant things. Soon, things started triggering in each other. He had a tendency for parasuicides as well but when his coping skills were weakened, he first dumped me some ten times in a matter of days and overdosed on heroin twice - because of the wrong injection needle he says. With everything in his system, he should be fast asleep. What I'm trying to say is, if someone has suicide ideation tied to pot or whatever else, that person needs serious help. At this stage, pot doesn't help unless a "good life" for her is to have unlimited access to pot and be dizzy all the time and not have any, any, any issue bothering her at all so that she is not triggered. This is rarely sustainable, for financial reasons as well. The rest may be ticking bomb because someone who is so panicking about running out of drugs may be ready to do anything to access them, some of them very risky for her health. She needs professional help. Also, she may be subconsciously bringing this up to ensure enabling from her environment. My ex was this reasonable person who was on suboxone who had been clean for quite a while and all of this happened quickly. There are many people leading good lives on suboxone and this didn't happen because he is a heroin addict. This happened because he chose to cope with his serious issues (suicide ideation is serious enough) through his own methods and it went downhill from there. Untreated BPD and drugs are not good friends for people who are already dysfunctional. Your gf may not overdose but what you are describing includes serious health risks for her. This also diminishes her chances to seek treatment and have a better life. When people don't have a better life, it usually doesn't stay where it is, life worsens. IMHO, stopping enabling in both senses, supporting her to seek treatment and recovery would be the best help you can offer to her. Help may not be what she wants but what she needs (here, professional help). I'm not against winding down with pot or THC or anything but what you are describing (the connection between pot and suicide) makes me think that this situation may be a bit more serious.

I wish both of you the best,

[landj]

Thank you, thisworld for that very thought provoking post. As I read it it resonated with me like that is what my own thoughts were leading me toward. And I have put a lot of thought into it. Can you tell me what you meant by "stopping enabling in both senses" ?  I may have to move this to the leaving forum. Between her telling me I have a entity living in my house (why she can't move back) and it seems to attach itself to me so when she sees me it sucks all her energy and makes her suicidal, and offering that she made a move to kiss her new smoking buddy (but he's such a nice guy he stopped her) because she's so desperate to be loved, I may have finally stood up to my limit. This was happenning while I was called by her to come over and help with a child emergengy ( she has no drivers license now either). Although she has left and come back to me a few times before, this was the first time I told her I can't stay in this relationship anymore. I have not heard from her since but if I do I am guessing it will be to tell me whatever new crisis arrive are all my fault because I dumped her.  If she happens to see this post, then I am sure she'll know it's me. When we are apart, I really miss her and her kids. I hope she can overcome her imbalance.  Sometimes I wonder if she obtained a large sum of money, if that would help relieve all the anxiety that makes her so crazy. That is actually a real possibility because of certain  pending circumstances in her life. Maybe I will start another thread on that later.  Thank you all again. You are my therapy.

[Cat Familiar]

"Sometimes I wonder if she obtained a large sum of money, if that would help relieve all the anxiety that makes her so crazy. That is actually a real possibility because of certain  pending circumstances in her life."

I had to respond to this because I thought the same thing a number of years ago when my current husband and I were building our house. Our finances were stretched very thin and then his evil NPD dad passed away and to his surprise, he found out that he was not written out of the will as he had assumed and he and his sisters inherited a substantial sum of money--enough for a normal person to never again worry about money.

Well, if anything, he got more BPDish. It's an identity disorder and suddenly he had a new identity as a wealthy person.

The problem for partners of people with BPD is that we can see such wonderful qualities in them and that can cause us to engage in magical thinking--if X happens, then maybe they'll be OK. I've lived with three people with BPD and it doesn't work like that, no matter how much we hope.

[thisworld]

Hey  We're all here for each other:))

By enabling I mean any behaviour from your side that contributes to her use of pot from now on. Why from now on? Because you are saying with your own mouth that there is a problem. (And no, you are not exaggerating, there is a problem. The more we live in this kind of chaos the more we adjust and start normalizing things. It takes a good amount of recovery on our side to detach and see that what we were going through was a bit crazy:)) By enabling in both senses, I mean 1) enabling the use of drugs to self-medicate through behaviour that you perceive as support but may actually be harmful 2) enabling some BPD behaviours that are tied to this (manipulation, suicide threats). I personally think, from a health perspective BPD and drugs (at this stage) would almost be impossible to manage positively without professional help for everyone and some BPD behaviours may make it very very difficult for the partner. In my case, what hurt most in the heat of the moment was not violence, raging, sexual control etc from my partner (just one of these would make many people stop the relationship immediately) but emotional affairs with his exes, his constant attention seeking from other females (online and not) while I was trying to keep a very fragile life together for both of us - that life, by the way, became fragile because of his circumstances. I'm self-sufficient. I mean, why you know? When sometimes they are actually able to replace us so quickly or black us so easily and pretend that we even do not exist as a self with emotions and our own vulnerabilities?

Anyway, back to enabling. I'll comment on this only from the pot perspective because my experience with both this and BPD was a total disaster. However, in my opinion, the existence of BPD doesn't change the fact that issues related with drugs and the hurtful way we experience them don't become less painful, they become more painful. It shouldn't be easy to hear from your partner that if this habit is not somehow financed, there will be some dates on the way. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. This is what is called a double-bind. Some BPD experts and addiction therapists recommend us to take ourselves out of the double-bind and do what we want to do actually.

Still, many of us are torn between helping a loved one and not wishing to enable. Some people are hard core in this, they have already defined certain behaviours as enabling and do not do them. This is like tough love. Some others, like myself, o not have a certain definition. A supportive behaviour may really be help or it may result in negative consequences. It's the result that matters. If that's the case, I stop that behaviour. That is a firm boundary now. For instance, I was not against recovery with "substitutes" - many people do that successfully. But when, in our case, it resulted in what I described above. Then no, it doesn't work, then no more participation in the substitute stuff for me. I don't want to contribute to someone's downfall thinking that it's support. I'll PM you an article about this. It defines two kinds of support: outsider, listening and active support, partner. I think in my case, the latter is impossible anyway because BPD made it impossible for me to stay and again, the first is impossible because of BPD problems makes that friendship impossible - he constantly tries to manipulate me back into the relationship. The usual story you see on the detachment board. I trigger the guy because of BPD, I'm not in a position to help him. It's very important to recognize and accept it, no matter how painful. I've got to let go. That requires a certain recovery on our part though.

I also think it's difficult for the partner when there is suicide in the equation. Please strengthen and empower yourself on this. If you google BPD and suicide threats there is lots of information from trustworthy experts, I think on this site as well. The ultimate point is be it manipulation, real, unreal, you are not responsible for anyone's life. Even if you wanted, you actually cannot be. (Because humans are limited beings by nature - they have emotions so life becomes unbearable for them- you would react negatively at one point and contribute to the ruin). She has some things on her own now, at least a place, even if she might lose it, she has it. Do not take this back and offer your own place if you are not ready to do this for the rest of your life. It becomes harder to quit then. I stayed in my relationship out of politeness for a bit. That didn't help anything. (And I got emotionally cheated anyway.) When it's suicide, there are clear steps to be taken and you don't have to be involved if the relationship is over.

In my case, my partner moved to his mother's place (who didn't want him but accepted him nevertheless) had a 180 degree turn and became a proponent of recovery. He may be sincere in his own world but I experienced this as a kind of punishment (look I'm doing everything you wanted but you've lost me, and the promise of getting well) and this lasted for a week anyway. Then he wanted me to send him some money and got offended when I didn't. None of this going on with me means he isn't putting up a façade elsewhere and secure replacements. He has so many faces.  

Even after everything, I had this feeling of sadness for him, I worried about him. When I shared this with my T, she said, because my partner is unable to sustain a relationship due to his disorder, he is particularly skilled in ensuring initial attraction and is more capable in this sense than I am. She said, Look, he attracted you:)) This is so true, I so couldn't attract anyone if I was as dysfunctional as him. I think we need to let go of the guilt and differentiate between love and pity. The second  is not a healthy foundation for intimacy. (Plus, how long can I pity an emotionally abusive person really?)

Sometimes, we fall into what if thinking: what if I had better resources, what if I could provide a healthy system, would she comply and recover in it? If you have this worry, do not, not for a second. I experienced what I did in a holiday resort like place with neither of us having to work for income (I'm financially independent and don't have to work, but I still work from home because it's important for me to be productive), having a lot of opportunities to start building a healthier life. When someone doesn't choose to get well, none of this means anything. When they choose to get well, people are able to achieve so much with way less and become stronger in the end. Usually, this has nothing to do with what they have.  

Below is something from SMART org. a secular recovery programme for people with substance problems and people in their lives. I don't know how it would interact with BPD, that's different for everyone I assume but my partner was incapable of fulfilling any of this and didn't do anything to change the situation. Better communication helped momentarily but didn't solve anything in the end. (And I felt engulfed:)) Anyway, SMART says, these are our personal rights that we should internalize so that we don't get lost ourselves. How would you tackle the double challenge? I don't know, I couldn't do it myself. Still, these are good to remember (even if you choose not to use your rights:))

All the best,          

Personal Bill of Rights

I have the right to ask for what I want I have the right to say no to requests or demands I can’t meet

I have the right to express all of my feelings, positive or negative I have the right to change my mind

I have the right to make mistakes and not have to be perfect I have the right to follow my own values and standards

I have the right to say no to anything when I feel I am not ready, it is unsafe, or it violates my values

I have the right to determine my own priorities I have the right not to be responsible for others’ behavior, actions, feelings or problems

I have the right to expect honesty from others

I have the right to be angry at someone I love I have the right to be uniquely myself

I have the right to feel scared and say “I’m afraid"

I have the right to say “I don’t know”

I have the right not to give excuses or reasons for my behavior

I have the right to make decisions based on my feelings

I have the right to my own needs for personal space and time

I have the right to be playful and frivolous I have the right to be healthier than those around me

I have the right to be in a non-abusive environment I have the right to make friends and be comfortable around people

I have the right to change and grow I have the right to have my needs and wants respected by others

I have the right to be treated with dignity and respect I have the right to be happy

I have the right to think about ME without feeling selfish  

If you carefully read through this list every day, eventually you will learn to accept that YOU are entitled to each of these rights.

[thisworld]

The problem for partners of people with BPD is that we can see such wonderful qualities in them and that can cause us to engage in magical thinking--if X happens, then maybe they'll be OK. I've lived with three people with BPD and it doesn't work like that, no matter how much we hope.

This. From the other perspective, too.

[landj]

Do you think it is okay for me to tell her I think she is addicted to pot and ask if she would consider therapy? She was seeing a therapist for awhile near the beginning of our relationship. It seemed to be helping and she even mentioned then that she knew that the ghost in my house was in her head. She doesn't believe that now though. I am feeling like the entity that is sucking her energy is the truth, and she doesn't want to face it. Thank you.

[thisworld]

I wouldn't call it addiction or anything and would not pass any judgment at the moment vocally. I would say that I'm worried about her because she seems to be going through a tough time and she doesn't have to suffer the way she is. I'd bring up therapy but would not insist. I don't think she is at a place to start drug recovery right now - she must want it herself and I don't think that will happen before she is calmer so doesn't need to self-medicate at this level. ı'd also think about healthy boundaries about BPD and suicide ideation.

Best, 

[landj]

I wouldn't call it addiction or anything and would not pass any judgment at the moment vocally. I would say that I'm worried about her because she seems to be going through a tough time and she doesn't have to suffer the way she is. I'd bring up therapy but would not insist. I don't think she is at a place to start drug recovery right now - she must want it herself and I don't think that will happen before she is calmer so doesn't need to self-medicate at this level. ı'd also think about healthy boundaries about BPD and suicide ideation.

Best, 

She has admitted that she is addicted to it and is psychotic without it. This has been going on for at least 16 months. She wants to get in the pot business in some fashion and is a big pot fan, which is why she is seeking smoke buddies to hang out with. She thinks it is all she needs to be happy.  I thought I would bring up she admitted she didn't want to be addicted and tell her suicide ideation when she is running out is enough of a reason to seek therapy. Her idea has been that a trip to Peru and doing a one time ayahuasca retreat is going to heal her. Right now is so hard because she calls and acts like she wants to be with me but when I am there it's stuff like I make her crazy, won't marry her, want her to fail... .She just gets mad and blames everything on me. I think I am moving toward moving on alone. But when she reaches out, I want to help. I'm not sure what to do but I would like it to be the right thing, without driving my self crazy or dying from this anxiety I'm having.  Can you elaborate on the boudaries? Thank you.

[thisworld]

From what I know, psychotic reactions related to pot occur more with personality disorders, especially bipolar mania contributes to it. But we should keep in mind that sometimes what someone defines as psychotic may not exactly be psychotic. My partner would dissociate but would think it was psychosis. Only a professional can know I think.

As you can see yourself, your girlfriend's opinions are addiction and pot business are bit contradictory. But one principle in drug recovery is that we cannot decide the correct path of recovery word them (and sometimes we actually get jealous when the are in recovery or with their method of recovery, but that seems a long way ahead now). All we can do is to point at resources for support, help and leave it there.

I think we, partners, are not in a particular position to offer close, active support because unfortunately, they are triggered by us so we may be making things worse, no matter how sad and unintentional. My partner is much calmer now but I somehow feel that the same will be repeated in another relationship. That's why, it may be difficult to offer support other than lending a good, listening, non-judgmental ear to the addiction problems (but not enablng) - but I don't know how the BPD aspect would handle it at this stage. It seems very very difficult to me, but who knows really. I personally would point at options of recovery and leave it there. Maybe, if I was at a stronger point in life, I could say I would go with her if she wanted to access healthcare but would be very very careful not to go beyond this.

For your own healing, you may need to go no contact or limited contact.

For suicide boundaries, maybe you can start another thread and get suggestions. Many people are experienced in that. I personally made it clear to my partner that I was worried and I would call the ambulance and the police if an attempt or threat happened. Once you say this though, you should be ready to do it.

Best,

[landj]

I really appreciate your input on this. I am having a really hard time with this. On one hand I feel like she needs me to be there for her in anyway I can(although she keeps pushing me away), and on the other hand I feel like she may be better off without me. I know I am not the cause but sometimes I feel like I am. Her situation is truly overwhelming and she has no one to turn to other than some new friends she met recently (smoking buddies). I would hate for her youngest kids to wind up in child protection because I know she loves them and they don't have a dad and I can't take care of them 24/7 without her help. She has a son who is special needs(acts out like his mom and gets in trouble) and any daycare he has been at kicks him out. Then throw the holidays on top of it all plus, health problems with my elderly parents, I am finding myself in a state of depression. When she is okay, she tells me that when she gets suicidal I need to come to her and hug her and be with her. But when she does go into suicide mode, she won't let me near her and screams at me to leave or she runs off leaving me feeling helpless.Then later, she blames me for not being there for her. She seems to be having these episodes more frequently lately. I have been limited contact with her since she told me a few weeks ago she couldn't have a boyfriend and do the things she needs to do to survive... She calls when she needs something. I have learned to accept that. I keep hoping that by all of the times I am there for her when she needed me, she will learn that she can trust me. I guess I need to face the fact that if we manage to get through this and stay together, it is always going to be like this.

[Concerns]

I read through all the replies. Maybe some touched on this but I think the answer may be quite simple and I hope it helps in some way. Here goes:

Self-medicating is not management of a condition. There are too many variables.

1. See has to see a doctor. I'd recommend she see a psychiatrist. Her condition cant be managed by self-dosing with marijuana.

2. Meds don't cure.

3. She has to goto therapy.

She really needs to be assessed. Anything less is grasping at straws. 

[landj]

From what I know, psychotic reactions related to pot occur more with personality disorders, especially bipolar mania contributes to it. But we should keep in mind that sometimes what someone defines as psychotic may not exactly be psychotic. My partner would dissociate but would think it was psychosis. Only a professional can know I think.

I have wondered about that. Sometimes when she has an episode she screams and is flailing as though she is defending herself from an abuser. She claims she 're-lives being sexually assaulted as a child. It's scary. It's part of the reason for my post. I know when she smokes it helps in the moment but I don't want to enable her either. For now, l think she is friending people who will smoke with her. I try not to ruminate about it although she has told me she doesn't want sex, just really needs friends. Who knows. She did break up with me so she could "do whatever it takes to survive". She's invited me to meet them but I am not a stoner anymore and am not interested in sitting around getting high with her and her friends.  I wish I could just want it to be over and move on but if history repeats itself, her new super nice friends will probably screw her over. I think I am waiting for her to hit bottom and want to seek help. So I  guess I can say I am here posting  to try and figure out the right thing to do. For her and for me. Thanks

[landj]

I read through all the replies. Maybe some touched on this but I think the answer may be quite simple and I hope it helps in some way. Here goes:

Self-medicating is not management of a condition. There are too many variables.

1. See has to see a doctor. I'd recommend she see a psychiatrist. Her condition cant be managed by self-dosing with marijuana.

2. Meds don't cure.

3. She has to goto therapy.

She really needs to be assessed. Anything less is grasping at straws. 

Thank you for posting. It seems simple enough and I couldn't agree more. But getting her to see it this way is beyond what I can make her believe right now. She did start seeing  a Dr who specialzed with BPD patients about 18 months ago. It seemed to be helping but 6 months in, around Christmas(seems to be  a pattern) she broke up with me to move out of state where she was supposed to thrive, but she was screwed over by friends (another pattern). She came from therapy one day and acknowledged the ghost in my house was in her head, but now she knows it's in the house. She tried to reestablish the relationship with the Dr (I am not sure if psychologist or what)  when she moved back home, but she was booked up and wanted another one of her associates to take over. But my gf felt like she knew how to heal herself better than the new Dr and she gave up. I've sometimes wondered if my gf was such a complicated case and was so consuming that she didn't want to start with her again. I may reach that point. But for now I really miss her and worry about her and the kids.

[Concerns]

I think there is a difference between being motivated to heal and making excuses for not getting help because your ill mind is afraid of facing the realities and scars that affect your life. My wife doesn't believe in therapy. She doesn't think it works. Yet she hasn't really been in therapy for an extended period of time.

Children... .

It's really so difficult. They are precious little people. It's very kind of you to feel for them. Wanting to care for someone is what it means to be human, I feel. I would advise to be mindful of your worry. For me personally, I have recognized that worry is a sign of my own co-dependency issues. I concentrate on her when to really help I need to concentrate on me. I had a girlfriend once who had a child and the child and I had a really good relationship. The breakup was tough for me more bc of the child than the actual breakup with my ex. But I came to realize that she wasn't my child. Someone else, in the end, is ultimately responsible for her. I had to let that go.

Being involved in relationships such as these influences our behavior. It can be difficult to separate. "Needing" to care and missing the drama rather than the real benefits of being involved in a healthy relationship should be meditated upon, I think.