Paying for trial divorce

[Concerns]

I am wondering if anyone has any advice for paying attorney fees? I had a consult with a lawyer and even the beginning numbers are looking like $7000 just for the retainer and beginning trial. $300/hr after that.

Who has this type of scratch?

It would be a custody case that my BPD wife is going to fight me over. I'm just not sure how people on this forum come up with this kind of money. We are a typical middle-class household. I'm not poor enough for legal assistance but not rich enough to shell it out, sell some stock, or borrow.

[Matt]

Yeah, pretty often the lawyers figure out how much money you have, and that's how long the case takes - til your money is gone.  It's a scam.

A few ideas... .

First, you can possibly get a lot of good information by having an initial consultation with a number of attorneys.  Some will give you an initial consultation for free, or cheap.  An added benefit is that if you keep track of their names, then those firms - not just the attorneys you talk with but their entire firm - cannot represent your wife.  You can reduce her options.

You may be able to find a young but smart lawyer for less, or even a paralegal.

It's also possible to hire 1 attorney to mediate and settle the divorce, rather than 1 for each of you.  My sister did this and it was way cheaper.

I'm a little confused by your phrase, "retainer and beginning trial".  Where I live, only about 5% of divorce/custody cases ever go to trial.  Most are settled by agreement of the parties.  Going to trial is expensive, so if you talk with an attorney and she assumes you will go to trial, you might want to ask why.

The retainer isn't money the lawyer gets - it's put in an account and the attorney draws against it.  So if her rate is, for example, $300 an hour, that retainer will cover the first 23 hours she works on your case.  Then - as that point gets closer - she will ask that you make another payment to refresh the retainer - and the amount of that payment is negotiable.

As to the cost itself, you can reduce it by doing some of the work yourself - making copies, researching documents, etc.

You can also be very conscious of the number of hours your lawyer is in meetings on your behalf;  for example, if there will be a meeting with the other side, you can say, "We can have a one hour meeting but no longer than that." and as the hour comes to a close you can say, "Our time is almost up.  Let's finish this issue." and enforce the time limit you decided on.  (Your attorney may not like that but it's your money!)

We had to sell our house.  You may have to liquidate other assets.  Divorces can be expensive.

And there is always the option of doing this without an attorney.  If the other party gets a lawyer, it's probably not wise... .but a few of our members here have done it and it worked out OK.

[livednlearned]

Good advice from Matt, as always.

Only thing I would add is that if you anticipate your ex will take things to trial, pay careful attention to how things work. The clerk of court can't give legal advice, but many times he or she will patiently explain how things work in your courthouse. Like when to file, how to file, what goes first, the calendar, how to schedule things, what gets discussed at the different kinds of hearings. You can sit in the courtroom and watch how your judge conducts things and learn a lot. For the big hearings, you can use a lawyer. If you need to settle smaller things, like getting your ex to comply with the order, then those things are lower stakes and you could do that on your own.

Over time, there were hearings I think I could've done on my own, especially toward the end when I was starting to get a hang for how things worked. I never represented myself because my lawyer offered so much professional courtesy toward the end and psychological support that I stuck with her. Also, my ex was a former trial lawyer   so I never quite got the nerve, even though he was often dysregulated in court.

I guess another thing to add (that I learned from Matt) is that your lawyer works for you. Ask up front how your client can save money. My L told me to not send her everything until she asked for it, because she charged more for opening attachments, for example. I also put together my own trial binder to prepare for deposition, and told her to just email me documents, no need to send things by mail. She got the message that I was serious about saving money, and started to offer suggestions about other things I could do. I treated her staff with the utmost respect, paid her on time, and even when things didn't always go my way in court, I thanked her -- good lawyers are real people and they get emotionally invested.

I found a low-interest credit card to pay for retainers, and then after a while when I was so prompt with payment, my L started to let me float the balance.

My ex, being a lawyer, represented himself and began to engage in legal abuse, so my case is not entirely typical. My L was disgusted by that and I think that's partly why she helped so much, especially toward the end.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Total costs will be high in a contested divorce.  No way around that.  Maybe that's why the divorce rate is only about 50%  

If you remember to conduct this thing as your case, you can keep it less costly.  If you go in and tell an attorney that you want a divorce, here's my money, then the money will get spent.  Compare that to walking in and saying: Here's my 100 page parenting journal covering the last year, and my custody goals spelled out, a list of the assets and debts, my plan for single parenting, documentation of episodes of psychosis of my spouse, police reports, etc... .it will make your case for you. Make the most of your hired time with the attorney, and your end costs will be lower.  

There's that saying, "how come a divorce is so expensive?"

"Because it's worth it."

[ForeverDad]

Another concept is:  Choose your battles.  Likely you have a long laundry list of all the problems you have.  We all did.  But odds are that court won't address them all, many will be viewed as inconsequential and certainly not addressed in one hearing.  So why not organize the items mostly by priority and partly by topic.  I recall one time I came into a hearing with 11 items neatly typed, explained and organized by topic.  We barely got to item 3 before the magistrate ended it.  I was so stunned, I wanted to kick myself, I hadn't listed them by priority.

A little humor.  My lawyer got to hear just about every detail of my then-spouses misbehaviors.  Most he just said nothing would be done and to let them go.  I must have gone a little bit too far, he told me, "You're the one who married her!"  My only defense was, "Well, she wasn't like that when we married 15+ years ago."

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Total costs will be high in a contested divorce.  No way around that.  Maybe that's why the divorce rate is only about 50%  

If you remember to conduct this thing as your case, you can keep it less costly.  If you go in and tell an attorney that you want a divorce, here's my money, then the money will get spent.  Compare that to walking in and saying: Here's my 100 page parenting journal covering the last year, and my custody goals spelled out, a list of the assets and debts, my plan for single parenting, documentation of episodes of psychosis of my spouse, police reports, etc... .it will make your case for you. Make the most of your hired time with the attorney, and your end costs will be lower.  

There's that saying, "how come a divorce is so expensive?"

"Because it's worth it."

I concur.   Tho it wasn't with a pwBPD,  I say my divorce is worth every penny I didn't/don't get!  Sammwize,  love the suggestion of walking in with the 100 page plan/documentation.   This is a fabulous idea I haven't heard articulated before.   

This king of you, Concerns,  and wishing you all the best!

[Matt]

Walking into the attorney's office with a plan... .

Yeah, that's a great idea.

I would probably say, first establish, in your own mind, your "objectives" - the few key things that will make the outcome OK for you... .but if you don't get them, it won't be OK.

My objectives (if I had even remotely had my act together when I was where you are) might have been:

* At least 50/50 custody of my kids.

* Access to all information related to the kids.

* Court order to keep my ex from threatening me, harassing me, or making accusations.

* All her false accusations put to rest.

* Fair split of the money.

Other stuff that would have been nice - lots of it - but this was probably "OK" for me.  Yours will be different.

The reason this is important, is because this will help you separate the champs from the chumps when you talk to attorneys.

If you tell an attorney, "These are my objectives.", many will then spend their time (which you are paying for) trying to talk you into lower expectations.  Those are the chumps - losers.

A few will spend only a little time trying to influence your objectives - and they may have some good inputs - but most of their time figuring out how to *achieve* your objectives.  These are the champs.  They still may not be successful... .but they are at least focused on what *your* definition of success is.

I hired a chump first - smart, professional, great bedside manner - but a loser.  Cost me thousands of dollars and a lot of time to realize my mistake.  Then I hired a champ - and we achieved my objectives.

Wish I'd skipped the first guy.