I'm having issues

[Jungle_jake]

I have been posting on the Staying board, but right now I am at the end of my rope and am unsure how to proceed.  After doing A LOT of research on this site, among several others, I feel that I have a pretty good grasp on what this disorder is all about.  I HAVE read the lessons and really have been trying to not make things worse.  But I feel like I'm failing... .I feel like we're failing.  Our relationship is not healthy.  And no matter what I try to do to make it healthy, it's not working.  My patience is wearing very thin, this coming from someone who tends to have a lot more patience than most people. 

I really do love my BPDgf.  During periods where she is relatively stable, I have no complaints about her whatsoever.  But when she isn't stable, it is so ungodly horrible I can't help but to not want anything to do with her!  Why do I keep putting up with the abuse?  Because I keep telling myself things will get better.  I will never give up.  Unfortunately I'm feeling pretty f'n close to that point.

I try using S.E.T. and validation.  It blows up in my face every time!  She says, "Oh, I see what you're trying to do here.  Do you think I'm that stupid?  I can tell you don't take me seriously.  You are just pretending to care.  I hate you!"  She'll get so delusional and irrational my brain just shuts down.  I can't even begin to think of how I'm supposed to respond without setting her off more.  I remain silent, only to be cut down even more.  "I hate everyone, I hate myself, no one likes me, you don't even like me, I should just die, no one takes me seriously"... .on and on and on.  I'm so tired of the pity party.  I don't even know how to validate statements like that.  There has to be a reason she feels that way.  Something must've happened.  She won't tell me. "I just can't talk to anyone about anything!"  That's all I can get out of her.  It's so frustrating!

I tried setting boundaries.  That blew up in my face too!  Here's the first one:

As soon as she starts verbally abusing me, or trying to lay hands on me, I will leave until things calm down. 

It's kind of hard to leave when she throws my shoes and jacket in the tub and proceeds to soak them.  Or she will wait until we're driving in the car, and knows there's no way I can leave.  Or how about this one:

I need some space to hang out with my bro's for a little bit once a week.  Please don't bother me during that time unless it's an emergency.

I let her chill at my house while I went to watch a football game with my friend.  All was good when I left.  She had a meltdown and broke my f'n laptop because I wouldn't come home before the damn football game was over!  I tell my friend I gotta go.  I explain why.  He calls my roommate who wasn't home and tells him there's a psycho in his house.  Roommate calls the neighbor to come check on things.  Neighbor walks in, tells my gf to leave, she refuses, neighbor calls the cops!  Cops show up, barge right on in, of course she's got my weed pipe laying out.  I finally get home and am handed a $600+ ticket for possesion of drug paraphanalia!  She's no longer allowed at my house because the cops sent my landlord a referral of the incident.  I almost got evicted because of her!

She's been in DBT for almost three months now.  There is very little positive change I've seen.  She hasn't cut in awhile, which is excellent.  She doesn't talk about killing herself nearly much.  That's pretty much it.  I don't know if she's not applying herself fully or what.  I thought things would've been at least a little better by now.  How long do I wait it out?  I don't want to leave her.  I can't do that to myself or her.  I love the person, but not the disease.  I really try to not let her disorder define her, but it's beginning to and I don't know what to do anymore.                 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Indiegrl]

Oh man,

that is hard stuff you are going through! You having issues? I would say you have a very difficult relationship to deal with. I do think we get accustomed to things, that is: the strange, difficult and crazy things feel so familiar we don't react to it anymore... .To be blunt: I would translate the title of this thread from "I'm having issues" to "I'm having a girlfriend with serious mental health issues" - no pun intended. Makes me think though: Have you read the lessons on co-dependency? That was a big eye-opener for me, I'm still processing it. https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

The clothes and shoes soaking in the bathtub - could seem innocent, but I find it very violating when coming from an adult - it's more like a kid at age 3 could do, right, to get revenge?  .  Your boundaries are being busted big time, it simply is a very disrespectful thing to do. I see you have done very good efforts on withdrawing when she misbehaves towards you, and I understand it must be very difficult when she raises the bets/ making things even worse. I have no advice here, because I never understood what I dealt with, and I didn't set a boundary. I did a lot of JADEing and very little validating - I didn't know.

Well, I just wanted to say hi, and say that I am sorry you have gone through so much pain and difficulty in your relationship. I can tell you care for her, love her, and it is very understandable that you feel at the end of your rope. As you, I have always been more patient than the most, and it is one of my core values not to give up. Therefore it is a strange and scary feeling to feel close to the edge. Taking a step back and seeing that "keep on trucking" maybe not be an option after all - that is scary, for me cause that is always my way "out" of difficult situation - I don't draw a boundary and I don't expect from others, but I can always work harder myself.

I hope you stay on these boards and keep sharing your experiences, thoughts and feelings.

Take care of yourself, Jungle_jake  

[DreamGirl]

It's so frustrating!

It is.

It sometimes feels counterintuitive.

She says, "Oh, I see what you're trying to do here.  :)o you think I'm that stupid?  I can tell you don't take me seriously.  You are just pretending to care.  I hate you!"

So how do you respond to this? Using SET and validation?

I tried setting boundaries.  That blew up in my face too!  Here's the first one:

As soon as she starts verbally abusing me, or trying to lay hands on me, I will leave until things calm down.


I need some space to hang out with my bro's for a little bit once a week.  Please don't bother me during that time unless it's an emergency.

These boundaries are rough.

I only say that because the core wound of a person suffering from BPD is "abandonment". So when you leave her physically, metaphorically, or even temporarily ---- she's truly afraid. The feeling is valid only the reality is invalid (you're not going anywhere). And with the way you're expressing yourself, the reassurance is missing.

"I need space"

":)on't call me"

"I'm leaving"

Tough words for anyone to hear. Times that by a thousand for someone suffering from borderline personality disorder.

Wonder if there's another way for you to work on communicating that you love her very much --- and you're not going anywhere when you take a time out or go hang out with buddies? Or when you both need a time out from arguing?

I almost got evicted because of her!

She may have been the reason the cops showed up. The reason is yours to own as to why you got a ticket however. Not a judgment, just a statement. Just being fair, we all play our parts too.

She's been in DBT for almost three months now.  There is very little positive change I've seen.  She hasn't cut in awhile, which is excellent.  She doesn't talk about killing herself nearly much.  That's pretty much it.  I don't know if she's not applying herself fully or what.  I thought things would've been at least a little better by now.  How long do I wait it out?  I don't want to leave her.  I can't do that to myself or her.  I love the person, but not the disease.  I really try to not let her disorder define her, but it's beginning to and I don't know what to do anymore.    

What parts can you work with?

What parts are you willing to work on with her?

What parts are the deal-breakers?            

[Jungle_jake]

She says, "Oh, I see what you're trying to do here.  :)o you think I'm that stupid?  I can tell you don't take me seriously.  You are just pretending to care.  I hate you!"

So how do you respond to this? Using SET and validation

?

I don't even know.  By that point I'm feeling so insulted that my brain shuts down.  I already know I'm not allowed to defend myself ever again.  I guess I could try saying "It really sucks you would think that.  I would feel that way too if someone wasn't taking my feelings seriously."  But that's where I get stumped.  Because the truth is I do take her feelings seriously.  But stating that would just be invalidating. 

I almost got evicted because of her!

She may have been the reason the cops showed up. The reason is yours to own as to why you got a ticket however. Not a judgment, just a statement. Just being fair, we all play our parts too.

You know I don't even really look at her as being the reason the cops showed up.  That only happened due to third parties getting involved when I was on my way to handle the problem.  I don't think the police being called was the best solution.  Yeah, I made a mistake by smoking weed in a state where it isn't legal.  I own up to that part fully.  I just wish it hadn't come to that. 

[valet]

Hey Jake, all of that sounds really frustrating. I get why you're trying to make it work. You love her despite her behavior. There's nothing wrong with that.

That said, sometimes the tools don't work. There was period in my relationship where no matter how patient or understanding I was, things would get turned around on me. BPD is a persecution complex, amongst other things. Your pwBPD's psych is ejecting all of the guilt and shame she feels from her childhood onto the people in her life in order for her not to have to experience and cope with those feelings. It's ok to be angry about these things. You are only reacting as best as you rationally know how.

I think the key here, however, is to keep on using them. Practice makes perfect, and the more you validate her emotions while building and protecting your boundaries the better things will get for you.

Are you in therapy at the moment, or do you have someone in your life that you can talk about these things with? Getting out your grievances with a trusted friend or counselor is a really good place to start. It'll help you stay grounded so that when you need the tools you'll be able to use them effectively.

[DreamGirl]

Boundaries connect us.

I think that's what is often confused. I always love the idea that we're "upholding our values using boundaries" rather then "protecting ourselves with boundaries". Boundaries are all about us and what we're allowing to happen when we are present. It's not about controlling the other person and it's really not about expecting them to automatically conform to this new version of how we've decided things should be. She's grown accustomed to a lot of what you've allowed. 

You've help create a pattern here -- I did it too --- when we allow our values/boundaries to be plowed over. It's also not the time or place to set boundaries when the other person is dysregulated. We also have to be patient in that we've allowed certain behavior and we're the ones asking for change.

Oh, I see what you're trying to do here.  :)o you think I'm that stupid?  I can tell you don't take me seriously.  You are just pretending to care.  I hate you!"

You're right, I probably didn't say the right thing here to help the situation. I'm so sorry that you felt that I thought you were stupid or not taking you seriously. I just want us to have better communication regarding [insert whatever].

Arguments happen --- success is about how you recover from them. We all mess up. When we have a partner who is particularily bad at accountability, we tend to have to most of the recovery. It's a tall order, but that's what we sign up for in these situations.

(NOTE: For me, I'd also bring up later that "I hate you" is a hurtful thing to say (with my asking my spouse "don't you agree?" and that I know she doesn't mean it even in the moment. I just would prefer that she not say it. If/when she does it again, remind her that you were both working on not saying hurtful things because it doesn't help.)

This stuff does take practice. I personally had a therapist in my ear trying to say the right things... .so I wonder since she's in DBT therapy if there was a resource for you as well to help?

It's as hard on the other person as it is on us to set a new boundary. So I might try to imagine that as well, her side of it, when it comes to your having a night out with the boys (when you've not done it due to her anxiety).

A little reassurance and validation goes a really, really long way.

Her coping skills are lacking... .she's working on it... .and progress is progress.

You too. You're only learning these tools... .you're working on it... .and progress is progress.

[Jungle_jake]

Thank you to all for for your responses so far.  I'm extremely thankful for all of you taking the time to try to help me.  An incident last night left me frustrated and questioning the quality of this relationship.  It wasn't even that big of a deal, but it kind of was the last straw of a few things that have been bothering me lately.   

We were cruising around town, when we both were starting to get hungry.  I came up with an idea for a great place to eat and she said that sounded good.  I drive all the way across town to this place, park the truck, and get out.  She just sits there.  "Well, aren't you gonna come in?", I ask.  She says, "It's too busy here."  Okay, fine.  We try another place.  She says, "I think so and so is working, and I really don't feel like talking to her."  "That's fine," I say, "I wouldn't want to see someone I don't wanna talk to either."  But at this point, I think she could sense my aggravation.  And on top of it, I get extra irritable when I'm hungry.   So I drive to one last place I knew wouldn't be too busy.  We go in.  It was a pizza buffet.  We walk up by the food.  I say, "I'm gonna start with a salad.  What about you?"  Now she's pissed for some reason.  "Ugh, never mind," she says, "I'm not even hungry anymore."  So we sit down, I'm starting to eat my food, and she starts raging at me and accusing me of making her look like a fool in the restaurant, and calling her fat by asking if she was going to start with a salad.  This went on for awhile before she eventually walked out and sat in my truck.  I felt so embarrassed.  And irritated that I paid $10 for a small plate of salad without even getting to try the pizza.

She finally tells me today that the issue was about her just not wanting to be out in public.  Her anxiety was too high.  Why couldn't she just tell me that to begin with?  I would've gladly hit up a drive thru or something.  I was just trying to do a normal thing by taking my girl somewhere nice to eat.  I never would have thought someone could be so offended by that.

Are you in therapy at the moment, or do you have someone in your life that you can talk about these things with? Getting out your grievances with a trusted friend or counselor is a really good place to start. It'll help you stay grounded so that when you need the tools you'll be able to use them effectively.     

I'm not in any kind of therapy.  Maybe that's something I will look into depending on the cost.  And unfortunately I don't have too many friends I can trust.  Most have been pretty quick to make their judgements and dismiss it as "just another crazy chick that I shouldn't put up with."  I even had one of my closest friends stop talking to me altogether because he lost so much respect by me being with this girl.  Which after thinking about it for awhile, I'm starting to believe he wasn't all that great of a friend to begin with.  But still a depressing situation.

[Silveron]

Jake, ask yourself this.  Is she a project or a partner?  If you say project, realize that this project will never be corrected 100%, along with the fact that projects makes for very bad relationships.

If you say partner, then how is she a partner?  How is she meeting your needs?

Trust me, been married to a BPD wife for almost 12 years now.  It's awful.  None of your needs are met.  Sexually, emotionally, financially (they will take money from you non-stop), none will be there for you.

You become drained and numb to all the irrational and belittling behavior from them.  Honestly if the SO of a BPD doesn't have very strong shoulders, I could see them wanting to end their life.  Please don't ever marry this woman.  You can leave, please take my advice and go.  Not because I would want her hurt, it's because I want you to have a good life.  Only she can help herself.

[Jungle_jake]

I think at one point early in the relationship, maybe I did consider her a project.  I just wanted to help her be happy.  But that was before I learned about BPD and discovered this site.  I KNOW I can't help her.  But I can be supportive of her and make it easier to be successful. 

Trust me, been married to a BPD wife for almost 12 years now.  It's awful.  None of your needs are met.  Sexually, emotionally, financially (they will take money from you non-stop), none will be there for you.   

I'm sorry your marriage is like that.  I can't say my relationship is that bad.  For the most part, my needs are met.  Sexually things are pretty good.  I buy her things occasionally as a loving gesture, but she pays for her own day to day things or pays me back if she's short on cash.  However,  I can't really say my emotional needs are being met.  I know she tries.  But I can't really expect someone to meet my emotional needs if they can't even manage their own.  Isn't that what BPD is mostly about?  I already know that's not likely to happen.  I'm trying to find other ways to do that. 

She is still in the early stages of DBT.  At least she's aware she's not mentally stable and is getting help.  That is the reason I haven't left yet, although I'm barely hanging on.  Some days are okay and some days are downright horrible.  And it's those horrible days I feel like giving up.