I want someone who isn't closeted or ashamed of me.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I thought about putting this in the "leaving" board, but I left a long time ago and am mostly over that specific relationship. This post is mostly about trying to figure out what I do and don't want in my next relationship.

I'm not asking to be picked up in a $70,000 car and taken out for a fancy dinner all the time, but I want to actually go on dates. Is that so horrible? I don't mind us both paying or whatever, but I want the experience of being seen with my girlfriend IN PUBLIC and having people know that we're together. There's something grounding and validating for me about being able to bring the relationship out into the world and let other people know what's going on. I'd like us to go out with other couples without the other couple saying "I think you're settling" or "you seem kind of desperate" because my partner is ignoring me, obviously making eyes at other people, or just treating me like a stranger whenever anyone else is around.

I also want my partner to be... .proud of being with me. I don't want to be a secret. I 100% understand that if someone is leaving an abusive parent or is in a tense work situation with a homophobic boss, she has to use her best judgment about whether or not to tell that particular individual about her love life. That's not what I'm talking about. With cluster b people (BPD, NPD, etc.) it almost seems like they avoid coming out because they know a girlfriend won't impress people. It's like they're trying to be the queen bee from Mean Girls, and they're afraid admitting they were bisexual or gay would "take them down a peg" or something. I've dealt with a lot of shame surrounding being gay and have attended support groups and such for it. The last thing I need is a girl who values what a few shallow friends of theirs (who they don't even like most of the time) think of her more than she values me.

I'm also tired of girls who keep homophobic bigots around just to pick fights that they can "win" and gain a ton of sympathy for having to deal with. My most recent ex (who was diagnosed with BPD) kept hanging around these extremely conservative people whose parents taught them that sexual fantasies get you sent straight to hell. Then, she'd tell these people that she and I were "in love" and that she was going to make all these major life decisions to be with me. She'd practically *attack* them with declarations of her gayness and her commitment to me, and most of them would be like "wait... .I didn't even know you were gay and now you're committing your life to a woman none of us even knew you were into? What?" She'd twist reality so that all these people were gay bashing her and would do this epic "you're the love of my life, and if they don't realize it, then they can just eff off" thing. I wasn't really flattered by it. I was annoyed and frustrated and just wished she'd stop this behavior.

Of course, this same girl wouldn't hold my hand in public because hand holding was gay. She was constantly talking about how "gay" everything we were doing was like a middle schooler. Even intimate stuff, she'd be doing it and going "wow, this is really gay" like that was an insult.

At this point, I can't date bi-curious people. I can't date bisexuals who have long histories of dating men and sort of downplaying their relationships with women or sidelining female partners. I'm so sick of people saying this doesn't happen or that it's biphobic to think that SOME (not all) bi women do this. I also can't date people who do the closet thing just to keep up with the Joneses and not because there's actually a reason for it.

I also... .I want actual attention. If we're together, I'd like some of our time to be spent TOGETHER. My two longest relationships were with women who would just hop on their computers and sit around instant messaging and watching stuff on YouTube while we were supposed to be spending time together (like in the middle of our plans). I'm not asking them to like... .shower me with affection every second of every day, but I want to feel like I matter more than furniture. I want to feel like my girlfriend is proud to be with me and is happy to be with me. I want to be more than the person she rants at about other people 24/7. Ranting/venting is fine, but when it's all that ever happens, I can't do that.

I also want to feel like I'm actually worth something to her. I'm tired of women who are never satisfied. With my ex, she would r*pe me whenever she felt like it, but if I ever even considered trying to be affectionate with her and initiate anything, she'd punish me for it and accuse me of abusing her. A simple "no" would have been enough. It's like they only want it when I don't want it, and if I do want it, it stops appealing to them. It's like they view sex as a way of bullying people, like the kid who keeps saying mean things until his victim stops reacting.

I'm mostly tired of girls who treat me like they're absolute saints for "putting up" with a relationship with me and like they're so wonderful that ANYTHING they give me should be more than enough. I'm tired of women being angry at me when I'm not happy with scraps. I'm also tired of them lying to all my friends so my friends think I'm just emotionally stonewalling my partner even when I'm always the one trying to keep communication open.

Is it too much to ask to go on dates, dress up now and then, spend time together without a computer or a cell phone in front of your face, COMMUNICATE about what each of you wants and doesn't want sexually instead of playing games about it, be upfront about hurt feelings when they happen instead of bringing up stuff that I supposedly did 6 months ago that I never knew was a problem? Is it too much to want actual attention from your partner sometimes instead of mutual ranting sessions and nothing else? Is it too much to want to date someone who doesn't remind me of a bratty tween most of the time? I'm sick of people saying all that stuff is normal or "lesbians just don't care about dating" or whatever.

Also, is it too much to NOT want to hear a bunch of second-hand gossip about myself from my partner? I don't want to hear about how Shelby said I'm not dealing with my trauma correctly and Beth thinks I'm mean and "a lot of people" (who will never be named) think I do this, and some anonymous source said I did that, and my ex respects all those people too much to "out" them by telling me who the heck they even are. Ugh.

[losingconfidence]

I thought about putting this in the "leaving" board, but I left a long time ago and am mostly over that specific relationship. This post is mostly about trying to figure out what I do and don't want in my next relationship.

I'm not asking to be picked up in a $70,000 car and taken out for a fancy dinner all the time, but I want to actually go on dates. Is that so horrible? I don't mind us both paying or whatever, but I want the experience of being seen with my girlfriend IN PUBLIC and having people know that we're together. There's something grounding and validating for me about being able to bring the relationship out into the world and let other people know what's going on. I'd like us to go out with other couples without the other couple saying "I think you're settling" or "you seem kind of desperate" because my partner is ignoring me, obviously making eyes at other people, or just treating me like a stranger whenever anyone else is around.

I also want my partner to be... .proud of being with me. I don't want to be a secret. I 100% understand that if someone is leaving an abusive parent or is in a tense work situation with a homophobic boss, she has to use her best judgment about whether or not to tell that particular individual about her love life. That's not what I'm talking about. With cluster b people (BPD, NPD, etc.) it almost seems like they avoid coming out because they know a girlfriend won't impress people. It's like they're trying to be the queen bee from Mean Girls, and they're afraid admitting they were bisexual or gay would "take them down a peg" or something. I've dealt with a lot of shame surrounding being gay and have attended support groups and such for it. The last thing I need is a girl who values what a few shallow friends of theirs (who they don't even like most of the time) think of her more than she values me.

I'm also tired of girls who keep homophobic bigots around just to pick fights that they can "win" and gain a ton of sympathy for having to deal with. My most recent ex (who was diagnosed with BPD) kept hanging around these extremely conservative people whose parents taught them that sexual fantasies get you sent straight to hell. Then, she'd tell these people that she and I were "in love" and that she was going to make all these major life decisions to be with me. She'd practically *attack* them with declarations of her gayness and her commitment to me, and most of them would be like "wait... .I didn't even know you were gay and now you're committing your life to a woman none of us even knew you were into? What?" She'd twist reality so that all these people were gay bashing her and would do this epic "you're the love of my life, and if they don't realize it, then they can just eff off" thing. I wasn't really flattered by it. I was annoyed and frustrated and just wished she'd stop this behavior.

Of course, this same girl wouldn't hold my hand in public because hand holding was gay. She was constantly talking about how "gay" everything we were doing was like a middle schooler. Even intimate stuff, she'd be doing it and going "wow, this is really gay" like that was an insult.

At this point, I can't date bi-curious people. I can't date bisexuals who have long histories of dating men and sort of downplaying their relationships with women or sidelining female partners. I'm so sick of people saying this doesn't happen or that it's biphobic to think that SOME (not all) bi women do this. I also can't date people who do the closet thing just to keep up with the Joneses and not because there's actually a reason for it.

I also... .I want actual attention. If we're together, I'd like some of our time to be spent TOGETHER. My two longest relationships were with women who would just hop on their computers and sit around instant messaging and watching stuff on YouTube while we were supposed to be spending time together (like in the middle of our plans). I'm not asking them to like... .shower me with affection every second of every day, but I want to feel like I matter more than furniture. I want to feel like my girlfriend is proud to be with me and is happy to be with me. I want to be more than the person she rants at about other people 24/7. Ranting/venting is fine, but when it's all that ever happens, I can't do that.

I also want to feel like I'm actually worth something to her. I'm tired of women who are never satisfied. With my ex, she would r*pe me whenever she felt like it, but if I ever even considered trying to be affectionate with her and initiate anything, she'd punish me for it and accuse me of abusing her. A simple "no" would have been enough. It's like they only want it when I don't want it, and if I do want it, it stops appealing to them. It's like they view sex as a way of bullying people, like the kid who keeps saying mean things until his victim stops reacting.

I'm mostly tired of girls who treat me like they're absolute saints for "putting up" with a relationship with me and like they're so wonderful that ANYTHING they give me should be more than enough. I'm tired of women being angry at me when I'm not happy with scraps. I'm also tired of them lying to all my friends so my friends think I'm just emotionally stonewalling my partner even when I'm always the one trying to keep communication open.

Is it too much to ask to go on dates, dress up now and then, spend time together without a computer or a cell phone in front of your face, COMMUNICATE about what each of you wants and doesn't want sexually instead of playing games about it, be upfront about hurt feelings when they happen instead of bringing up stuff that I supposedly did 6 months ago that I never knew was a problem? Is it too much to want actual attention from your partner sometimes instead of mutual ranting sessions and nothing else? Is it too much to want to date someone who doesn't remind me of a bratty tween most of the time? I'm sick of people saying all that stuff is normal or "lesbians just don't care about dating" or whatever.

Also, is it too much to NOT want to hear a bunch of second-hand gossip about myself from my partner? I don't want to hear about how Shelby said I'm not dealing with my trauma correctly and Beth thinks I'm mean and "a lot of people" (who will never be named) think I do this, and some anonymous source said I did that, and my ex respects all those people too much to "out" them by telling me who the heck they even are. Ugh.

[eeks]

Hi losingconfidence,

Welcome to the Personal Inventory board

What you describe wanting in a relationship:  mature and honest communication, emotional intimacy, and mutual respect.  No, this is not too much to ask for 

I mention this book enough, I should probably write a review of it for the site:  Keeping The Love You Find by Harville Hendrix.  He explains that we tend to fall in love with someone who possesses both the positive and negative characteristics of our parents/caregivers, and that is part of our unconscious seeking to restore joy and wholeness.  Things start out great in the honeymoon phase, but then the conflict happens, and if couples know what is going on (as opposed to assuming they are with the wrong person and breaking up/getting a divorce) they can actually come out of it stronger. 

The bad news is, individual therapy and self-help can only tone down the intensity of these patterns.  Of course, if someone keeps being attracted to abusers, addicts who have no intention of changing or getting help, then they should not stay in those relationships, but they will likely end up dealing with whatever is underlying that relationship dynamic in some form.  The good news is, couples who are aware of this information can use it to make their relationship one of the most personally psychologically transformative experiences a person can have.

Have you looked carefully at who it is you're attracted to, and why, and what you think you might be trying to resolve through that?  As an example so that you know what I mean, I am often drawn to highly intelligent men with mood disorders who tend to be thinkers not feelers (they believe the way to emotional well-being is a sort of stoic detachment or logical elegance).  I think I am still trying to get my mother to recognize my feelings (she has emotions, but dealt with trauma/authoritarian parents by blocking out emotions and learning not to rely on them for decision-making).  And if a guy is perfectionistic and critical of me... .that just ramps up my desire to win him over, prove I'm good enough.  Still trying to win my dad over.  Hah... .

It's easy for people to rely on explanations such as, "oh, online dating sucks".  "I know what kind of person I want, but there's nowhere for me to meet them."  "The lesbian dating scene is a bunch of bratty middle school girls."  Those things might be totally 100% true, I don't want to oversimplify or moralize the issue.  It's not about "choosing to make better choices despite a limiting environment" - that's still relying too much on the application of conscious will.  I'm talking about becoming aware of the factors driving your decisions, that you may not even be aware of.

eeks

[losingconfidence]

I did look at what kind of people I'm attracted to, and I realized something. I don't date people I'm actually attracted to most of the time. Growing up, I was taught that it was wrong to seek real, fulfilling love outside your family and that a romantic partner was just meant to fill a role in your life. The people who taught me these things made life seem like playing house. You just let random people agree to be "the mom" and "the dad" and "the sister" and "the dog" until your house is full of people. Actual desire (the kind that makes you blush from wanting the person rather than from shame or dread) was seen as shameful, but being single was seen as equally shameful. This left me with standards that basically looked like "no outright ax murderers." I started feeling like anything beyond that was selfish or shallow. I've dated people I feel no "spark" with because it's supposedly shallow to "date people for their looks" (even if their appearance is just one part of what you're attracted to). I like deep, intense conversation, and I've dated people who just have no intellectual curiosity or passion whatsoever (which is fine, no shame in not liking that kind of thing, but it's not going to work for me romantically). I have specific things I'm curious about sexually as well, and I tend to date people irrespective of those things as well.

I've never actually *liked* anything that has happened with a partner. Everything I do is out of obligation, and I feel horribly jealous of people who just know what they want, are comfortable with what they want, and go for it.

I get what you're saying about online dating and small dating pools not being excuses to date losers. So many people insist that online dating is "just terrible" and that everyone on dating sites is immature/worthless/etc., but that can't be so true if the people who say these things are also on dating sites! A woman I met in college actually married someone from OkCupid and is still friends with some dates that didn't work out. It's better to know what you want, put yourself out there, and ultimately hold out until you feel internal motivation to be with that person rather than just external pressure to accept any date request you get.

In most of my relationships, I haven't even really gotten a honeymoon period. My first serious girlfriend was sending majorly mixed signals, chose a guy who basically assaulted her over me, and then came back once she realized he wasn't boyfriend material. I hated the thought of letting an opportunity pass, and I was ashamed of my long-time singleness, so I went out with her. My second serious girlfriend was a complicated mess because I was basically cat-fished by two separate people. If I ever do long-distance again, I'm asking for Skype or a visit I think.

I've heard the theory that we date our parents. I do some of that, but weirdly enough I seem to just be drawn to people who allow me to hide from my sexuality and hide from my intimate desires. Hence, closet cases. If I felt too much attraction or passion, I'd probably panic and run away.

[eeks]

I've heard the theory that we date our parents. I do some of that, but weirdly enough I seem to just be drawn to people who allow me to hide from my sexuality and hide from my intimate desires. Hence, closet cases. If I felt too much attraction or passion, I'd probably panic and run away.

This makes sense to me too though, based on your personal history.  I read through some of your past posts, the sexual abuse facilitated by the very people who were supposed to protect you, your parents.  The possible abuse by your father, and at minimum exposure to inappropriate sexual content for your age.  Also, the homophobia (no freedom and safety to have your own preferences).

To me it sounds like from an early age your sexuality did not "belong to you", that is, you were not allowed to be aware of, have and pursue your own desires.

[losingconfidence]

You're right. My sexuality has always been a problem that needed to be erased, either so someone else could write their own desires onto me or so that I actually have more sexual abusers than I can count. My father is still in the "maybe yes, maybe no" category, but there are at least 2-3 people I know for certain abused me (all outside the family). Because of the organized sexual crime, there were just an endless number of them. That's what I'm working on dealing with, anyway.