Therapeutic Separation

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower I didn't withdraw. He called me later that evening to apologize for his harsh texts and then he ended up hanging up on me.

So I guess next time he says that then I'll say ok then I'll talk to you tomorrow, I love you, and then ignore him if he calls or texts?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Sunfl0wer]

Something I learned in couples therapy is that my ex had a lot of shame.  It was always my role to send him an olive branch.  My role was always to make it EASY for him to come back to me no matter what.

In that spirit... .

I'd say... . I will respect your need for space.  I am here when you are ready to talk to me again... .be it tomorrow or earlier, that is up to you.  I love you and hope to talk soon.

My tone and intentions were always important.  They needed to express genuine compassion too.

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower isn't That kind of reply enabling his bad behavior?

... .I will respect your need for space. I am here when you are ready to talk to me again... .be it tomorrow or earlier, that is up to you. I love you and hope to talk soon.

that's not how I feel, other then "I will respect your need for space ... .I love you"

he told me he wouldn't be doing a TS with me he would be leaving me if I did a TS and then he said he wouldn't be connecting with me after his meeting . That was yesterday afternoon.

Today is a new day and everything is fine. I didn't feel genuine compassion yesterday. I told he we needed a TS if he didn't get a lawyer and he told me he would leave me if I did a TS. That makes me angry. I was doing everything I could to try and improve the relationship and that was his reaction . That's water under the bridge now.

[Sunfl0wer]

I assume that you are talking with him or txting, or some kind of communication in order for him to express his desire for space?

So while you are talking, are you wanting to talk with him at that moment?  Or are you talking but not wanting to talk? 

So is it true that you actually DO want to be talking to him? (Hence you wouldn't be in the first place?)

It is not true that you are happy to begin talking to him again when he is ready? 

[Sunfl0wer]

Sunflower isn't That kind of reply enabling his bad behavior?

Enabling can be positive or negative.

The way I see it is that allowing him space is enabling him to self soothe his feelings on his own vs leaning on you to fix them.  Or it is him being aware when his frustration level is too high to be reasonable, therefore tending to his need of space.

His need for space is about him... .not something he is doing TO you.

[Sunfl0wer]

I almost hear that he IS in fact struggling, trying to reach back out to you, then feels scared away at some point in the interaction... .and disengages.

Actions from you or him can serve to

Distance

Bring closer

Neutral

If both partners are employing distancing actions... .then... .well... .there will be a greater divide.

[formflier]

Thank you patient and clear, he denies he punishes me.   I'm in a lot of pain right now.    

     Unicorn,    I understand you are in lot of pain.  Hang in there!  This is a great time to take space.  Taking space is not ignoring him or being mean.   You are attempting to take some very important steps.  Stay the path and be consistent.  I understand that he denies that he is punishing you and I would guess (please clarify) that you don't believe you are punishing him.  Here is the thing.  I believe you feel punished and I would assume he does as well.    It appears to me that you are both locked in a cycle of responded to each others hurts and hurting of each other.  Appears very painful.    Please take care of yourself and take some space here.           

FF  

[thefixermom]

unicorn, just stopped in to say that I hope the meeting with your priest today was helpful.  Thinking of you.

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower wrote

It is not true that you are happy to begin talking to him again when he is ready?

When he tells me he will not be connecting with me after the meeting and then he calls me when I go to the store to say he's sorry for speaking harshly to me and then ends up hanging up on me, no, I am not happy to talk to him. I would have liked him to stick to his word and not talk to me until tomorrow.

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower also wrote

The way I see it is that allowing him space is enabling him to self soothe his feelings on his own vs leaning on you to fix them.  Or it is him being aware when his frustration level is too high to be reasonable, therefore tending to his need of space.

His need for space is about him... .not something he is doing TO you.

You sound very positive.

I don't care if he takes space.

I want him to stick to his word if he takes space. That's what's so frustrating . He tells me at 2:30 he will not be connecting with me after the meeting then he calls me after the sun sets to tell me he's sorry for speaking harshly to me then he hangs up on me. I don't like that. I don't find it helpful. I feel by me picking up the phone I was enabling him. Next time he tells me he's not going to connect with me after the meeting I would like to be able to tell him that's fine, then I will talk to you tomorrow, and then ignore him after that. That is what I would like to be able to do. I am tired of being jerked around by his erratic emotions.

[formflier]

  I would have liked him to stick to his word and not talk to me until tomorrow.  

     If you were amenable to the agreement to not talk until tomorrow, and it seemed that you were.  Why answer?  Basically, if you are in a situation where talking to him is not something you are happy with, why would you talk?    Let him do what he will do, and same to you.   Hang in there.  Hope you meeting went well.      

FF

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower wrote some more

I almost hear that he IS in fact struggling, trying to reach back out to you, then feels scared away at some point in the interaction... .and disengages.

Actions from you or him can serve to

Distance

Bring closer

Neutral

If both partners are employing distancing actions... .then... .well... .there will be a greater divide.

That may will be true and I was not distancing myself, he was. I don't like playing games. I don't want him to be able to talk to me that way and then get away with it. That's not good for me.

Today is a new day and we aren't having those problems.

I know why he's in the position he's in and it has nothing to do with me. He made some bad plans before he met me and now they are coming to fruition. That is where I can have compassion and mercy for him, not for how he is treating me.

[unicorn2014]

Formflier wrote

I understand that he denies that he is punishing you and I would guess (please clarify) that you don't believe you are punishing him.

Here is the thing.  I believe you feel punished and I would assume he does as well. 

It appears to me that you are both locked in a cycle of responded to each others hurts and hurting of each other.  Appears very painful. 

Yes that is true, I think. I think he might have said I was punishing him. I know I am frustrated , very frustrated. I also know he made some plans before he met me that had nothing to do with me and now those old plans are getting in the way of his new plans. I can have compassion for that and not how he is treating me.

[unicorn2014]

The fixer mom wrote

corn, just stopped in to say that I hope the meeting with your priest today was helpful.  Thinking of you

yes it did thank you. I am grounded in what I need to do. I hope my pwBPD obtains a lawyer by the end of this month because if he doesn't I may be leaving my relationship and not by choice.

[unicorn2014]

Formflier also wrote

  you were amenable to the agreement to not talk until tomorrow... .and it seemed that you were.  Why answer?

it was not an agreement it was him telling me he would not be connecting with me after his meeting because he didn't like what I was saying. I was not happy with that at all. I am not happy I answered when he called last night. Next time I want to do better. Today is a different day.

Yes my meeting went well, thank you.

[thefixermom]

Thanks, unicorn... .so happy to hear the meeting went well.     I'm proud of you.  I see a woman with convictions doing her best. 

[unicorn2014]

Thank you the fixer mom one problem solved

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, I'm actually ok right now. What I was saying is I am not happy how I handled yesterday.

Today I talked to my priest, went to confession, I am at peace. I'm standing on solid ground. Its only Dec 18. My pwBPD has until Dec 31 to pick out a lawyer. If he does not have a lawyer by Jan 1 then I  will have a problem so  I am going to enjoy my peace while I can. My pwBPD has made it clear to me that he will not be doing a TS so if he doesn't have a lawyer by the end of the year then I will deal with that then. Some had suggested I move over to the saving board, and also read about extinction bursts and emotional immaturity.

My pwBPD dysregulated yesterday because I told him I would be separating from him if he did not have a lawyer by the end of the month, that's what that was about. So I got my message out and the dust has settled. I made a joke to him tonight about his using up his dysregulation for the week yesterday. We've joked about that before.

[Sunfl0wer]

I don't want him to be able to talk to me that way and then get away with it. That's not good for me.

What do you do to be sure he doesn't get away with things?

[unicorn2014]

Form flier wrote

Please take space from each other so you can get a respite and you can provide a respite for your SO.

The amount of pain and suffering you are each heaping on each other is incredible, the more this goes on the longer it will take to heal, or perhaps may destroy the relationship.

I don't know how familiar you are with apologetic theology and there is a form of apologetic theology where you destroy a false world view. I am applying this to my relationship. I will take your concern into consideration and talk to a former spiritual leader about this.

[unicorn2014]

I don't want him to be able to talk to me that way and then get away with it. That's not good for me.

What do you do to be sure he doesn't get away with things?

I now realize that is not the correct approach to take with him. Do you suggest a better approach?

[Sunfl0wer]

I don't want him to be able to talk to me that way and then get away with it. That's not good for me.

What do you do to be sure he doesn't get away with things?

I now realize that is not the correct approach to take with him. Do you suggest a better approach?

I do not know what "things" constitutes and what happens after "things" to have an opinion on this. 

It sounds like you are trying to focus on the big picture these next weeks.  Maybe continued focus on that is the best course vs focus on other specifics?  (Like you seem to be doing)

[unicorn2014]

Hi Sunflower, I'm still not sure what you're asking. I told my partner he has until the end of this month to secure a lawyer. I realize that may also be a tough deadline to meet however I will stand my ground that I need to see some proof of action that he took to move his divorce forward. If he is not able to produce proof of this then I will have to separate from him. He does not want to separate from me and he said he would leave me if I separate from him. Those are the cards on the table. So now I have to wait.

[KateCat]

Please take space from each other so you can get a respite and you can provide a respite for your SO.

The amount of pain and suffering you are each heaping on each other is incredible, the more this goes on the longer it will take to heal, or perhaps may destroy the relationship.

FF

unicorn, I think your guy has given you a great big clue about his reality. It lies in his repeated use of the word "humiliation."

One could guess at the reasons an actual divorce would be humiliating for him. (I've seen tons of divorce documents and my imagination doesn't need much prompting.) Sparring daily with him right now will only increase his sense of impending humiliation. And demotivate him.

Do you feel able to step completely away from him and his decision until the first of the year? It's not long, and I think it's the best chance this relationship has. Just let him sit and gather his courage.

[unicorn2014]

Please take space from each other so you can get a respite and you can provide a respite for your SO.

The amount of pain and suffering you are each heaping on each other is incredible, the more this goes on the longer it will take to heal, or perhaps may destroy the relationship.

FF

unicorn, I think your guy has given you a great big clue about his reality. It lies in his repeated use of the word "humiliation."

One could guess at the reasons an actual divorce would be humiliating for him. (I've seen tons of divorce documents and my imagination doesn't need much prompting.) Sparring daily with him right now will only increase his sense of impending humiliation. And demotivate him.

Do you feel able to step completely away from him and his decision until the first of the year? It's not long, and I think it's the best chance this relationship has. Just let him sit and gather his courage.

I could step away completely and he couldn't so if I do that he will feel rejected. I understand what you are saying about humiliation and I am divorced too. It was not humiliating for me at all, it was liberating. I appreciate your input. You mention you've seen tons of divorce documents. Does that mean you are a family law attorney?

[KateCat]

I am not. I worked as a legal assistant for my local prosecuting attorney's office in a family law environment.

Divorce documents so often reveal personal and financial failings kept secret until the filing. Gloves are off, and facts are laid bare. Spouses who have been keeping each other's secrets often no longer do so. If a person spent money he or she didn't have, the documents may detail this rather specifically.

I'm trying to think of reasons other than the above that your guy would not have kept his promise to you. I don't get the sense that he values you so little. More the sense that he is not brave enough to face the facts. That he feels you will reject him.

[Sunfl0wer]

I apologize for forming the sentence as a question;There really is no question that I have right now.  I originally was posting in this thread as I was confused as to the process of a therapeutic separation... .and interested in the concept as a tool for helping a relationship. 

I figured since you were attempting this, and that I was confused, that me asking questions which helped define this could be beneficial to all... .yourself, and those reading the post ... .me included.

However, as the post progressed, it appears that you are really not in fact able to do a therapeutic separation as you do not have the cooperation of your partner... .lending my original intent moot.

It then appeared to me that the concept of both you and your partner taking some form of space from one another appears to be an issue of stress and focus.

My question regarding your interactions was an attempt at probing into this area to gain some clarity of the issue... .to see if that would help get you some more specific advice with an issue that appears reoccurring.

However, working with what keeps coming up for you as quoted below, it appears that you are simultaneously maintaining a firm focus on the bigger picture of things.

I realize that may also be a tough deadline to meet however I will stand my ground that I need to see some proof of action that he took to move his divorce forward. If he is not able to produce proof of this then I will have to separate from him. He does not want to separate from me and he said he would leave me if I separate from him. Those are the cards on the table. So now I have to wait.

I am not certain though that this is a 'tough deadline' as he has known this request from you for sometime now.  (I feel you have been MORE than fair and have not requested anything exceptional of him at all.)

It sounds like you are trying to both be strong and stick to your values of loving yourself, while at the same time having compassion for his situation.  This sounds like only the best that anyone can do under such circumstances... .and a challenging stance to maintain.

[KateCat]

"It's going to take him some time to even find his deck of cards, let alone show them"

Boy, well put.

This is exactly what I think, unicorn. He has put a lot of years and a lot of effort into creating a certain impression for you. He is being asked to do something really, really tough here.

[unicorn2014]

Kate cat I do not know why he hasn't kept his promise to me. He says his lawyer didn't file his divorce with the court. He says he has to hire a new lawyer.

I learned from this thread that without cooperation from the other party there is no TS so what we are talking about is a boundary.

I am going to follow the advice  to read about extinction bursts and emotional immaturity and to move over to the saving board.

[unicorn2014]

Sunflower thank you for understanding .