Would you have agreed to be with them if you knew about BPD?

[thisworld]

Just out of curiosity. Imagine you met your partner and they were as attractive and charming as they were during the mirroring stage. But you knew that they had BPD and somehow had read everything you see here on bPD family. You also knew that this person was not in therapy. Would you start a relationship with them despite the charm?   

[patientandclear]

I can only be sure it would have gone very differently. I think my ex would have been hugely relieved if I stayed interested in him without him having to pretend to be someone he isn't--if I had relieved him of the need to mirror to get my approval.

I'm sure that eliminating my shocked reactions when he proved to be so different than he first appeared would have prevented a lot of damage. But at the time, I had no clue what was happening or why.

So knowing could have helped. On the other hand, knowing that there was a long string of women he'd made feel exactly like I felt at the outset, only to get their hearts broken, would have been a big deterrent.

[SummerStorm]

No, I wouldn't have.   Would I have still been friendly with her at work?   Yes, of course.   pwBPD are people, after all, and mine is funny and smart.   But I wouldn't have gotten as close as I did.

[Confused108]

No I would have stayed friends and that's it.

[blackbirdsong]

At the very beginning of our relationship I knew that she is in therapy.

But the mentioned reason was some traumatic experience in recent history (family related) and the symptoms are depression and anxiety. I actually found that positive, in a way that she recognized this and seek help.

But later she mentioned BPD, as something that her therapist defined as a possible diagnose, but she said that she doesn't see how that fits (!)

At that time, I didn't know what BPD was, just briefly search it, saw self harming etc. so I also rejected it. (who knows, considering the red alerts that already existed, maybe I didn't want to recognize it)

Later, at the end of the relationship, I remembered BPD and started exploring... . 

Will I start relationship again? Probably, because at that point, even if she admitted BPD, I wouldn't have a realistic view of it. Hell, probably my codependency issues would be even more triggered, who knows... . 

But, ask yourself one thing, if someone tried to describe the feelings that you experienced in a relationship with BPD earlier, would you believe that person? I wouldn't... .So, probably, I would start a relationship, maybe with more caution... .     

[Reforming]

Hi thisworld,

There's a very good old thread on this subject, perhaps one of the mods might be able to bump it. From memory most of the members said no.

My feelings…

It's a hard one to hypothesise.

Not only was I very uneducated about mental health issues when I got involved with my ex - I was very unaware of my own behaviour and coping mechanisms - a pretty destructive combination.

Having a successful relationship with someone who is suffering from a disorder requires a highly developed emotional  intelligence, finely tuned communication skills and rock solid boundaries.

Some of this can be learned over time, but it takes a lot of work and dedication and even then there are no guarantees of success. It seems like a high risk proposition to me


Reforming

[steve195915]

Just out of curiosity. Imagine you met your partner and they were as attractive and charming as they were during the mirroring stage. But you knew that they had BPD and somehow had read everything you see here on bPD family. You also knew that this person was not in therapy. Would you start a relationship with them despite the charm?   

Good question that definitely takes some thought. 

I would like to say if I knew what BPD was and how it manifested itself, I would definitely not have pursued them.   

However, in reality if I met my ex and knew of her BPD yet I  saw how attractive and charming she was, I probably still would have gone out with her though I would have been very cautious.  She is absolutely gorgeous and seemed very happy and a fun person when I met her.  I would have ended up in a relationship with her regardless since during our first 5 months, she was in perfect behavior and didn't show the typical BPD traits, by then I was totally in love.  Note the 5 months consisted of only seeing her 3 days every 2 weeks due to my job travels however we did talk daily on the phone during the time.  The limited time together helped her hide her true colors for that length in time.  So if I knew she had BPD at the beginning I may have been on the lookout more but after 5 months of perfect behavior and the intensity of our feelings during that time, I would have thought that she really didn't have it like I was told, or the intensity of her disorder is minimal.  I also don't think I could really comprehend what the pwBPD were actually capable of...   Even after what mine did to me, I still find it hard to believe some of the things, like how can they profess their undying love, show intense feelings, make love like you never experienced before, and then the next day dump you with no remorse and act like you never meant a thing to them ever. 

So if you ask me now if I meant someone that told me first they had BPD, I'm hoping after my experience I would run but knowing me, if she was super adorable, I may still put my hand into the fire.  That damn other brain of mine!  arghhh!

[thisworld]

I wish they did Reforming, and thanks for providing the general tendency in that thread.

I think I lost my ex due to some solid rock personal boundaries as well as my follow-up on boundaries that we designed together with negotiation. I think I still became the persecutor in his eyes. Maybe I could have done the follow-up differently but I don't think that would ultimately change anything.

But, ask yourself one thing, if someone tried to describe the feelings that you experienced in a relationship with BPD earlier, would you believe that person? I wouldn't... .So, probably, I would start a relationship, maybe with more caution... .     

I would believe that person. I would also tell the person that they were going through emotional abuse for whatever reason and try to provide support in the best possible way:))  

[blackbirdsong]

I wish they did Reforming, and thanks for providing the general tendency in that thread.

I think I lost my ex due to some solid rock personal boundaries as well as my follow-up on boundaries that we designed together with negotiation. I think I still became the persecutor in his eyes. Maybe I could have done the follow-up differently but I don't think that would ultimately change anything.

But, ask yourself one thing, if someone tried to describe the feelings that you experienced in a relationship with BPD earlier, would you believe that person? I wouldn't... .So, probably, I would start a relationship, maybe with more caution... .     

I would believe that person. I would also tell the person that they were going through emotional abuse for whatever reason and try to provide support in the best possible way:))  

no, I expressed myself in a wrong way (sorry, English is not my native language  ).

What I meant is that someone told me that I could be so hurt and allow someone to manipulate me like she did, I wouldn't believe that to anyone. The fact was that we were blinded, not only our BPD partners, but our emotional issues/wounds. And this is something that would disable my healthy view of the situation. The fact is that is much easier to recognize emotional abuse when you look someone from distance... .

[thisworld]

It's not my native language, either

I see what you mean. That FOG!

Well, it's lifting now:))

[Lucky Jim]

Who knew?  We never covered it in Psych 101 in college.  No, I can't see myself getting into a BPD r/s now, though I'm a much different person after going through the BPD crucible.  It changes you.  I'm less naive.  I understand myself better.  I'm far less susceptible to manipulation.  As Nietzsche said, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and I think there's some truth to that in the BPD context.  

LuckyJim

[FannyB]

As most of my anxiety during the good part of the relationship centred on my concern that I would let her down, then the answer is an emphatic 'yes'.  If prior knowledge would have protected me from falling in love with her, whilst still allowing me to have a fantastic 4 months or so, then that would have suited me fine.

Sorry if that sounds superficial. 


Fanny

[heartbroken25]

I suspected BPD after I had already been in a relationship with him for 12 years.  I was ready to leave when he made the commitment to go to DBT therapy.  I stayed and married him knowing he had BPD.  How could I leave when someone was willing to make such a commitment (or so I thought)?  He  had 4 years of DBT therapy.  It helped with certain issues of his esteem, impulsiveness, and rages but not with him dealing with uncomfortable feelings and "bolting" everytime he claimed to be unhappy in our marriage.    

I knew of BPD but failed to educate myself fully. I wasn't aware of this website then, not even sure if it existed.  I really thought that the DBT therapy was the magic pill that would really help.  I also learned validation and communication techniques through a local support group in NY.  Many of the individuals there were parents as opposed to partners.  Most told me to "run" as they had no choice because it was their children afflicted with this and not a partner.  I should have known better.    

I met my BPD when I was 19 years old.  If someone told me all about it then, not sure how I would have reacted then.  Now that I have experienced this illness for 25 years and have been traumatized and damaged (hopefully not beyond repair) I'm afraid that it will find me again.  I still have to heal from my current situation, but when and if I decide to share my life with another, you can bet I'll run for the hills the first red flag I see.  "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

[thisworld]

As most of my anxiety during the good part of the relationship centred on my concern that I would let her down, then the answer is an emphatic 'yes'.  If prior knowledge would have protected me from falling in love with her, whilst still allowing me to have a fantastic 4 months or so, then that would have suited me fine.

Sorry if that sounds superficial. 

Fanny

It doesn't sound superficial, it sounds very honest Now that you say it, I think I enjoyed falling in love myself. So, I would like to relive the first one month and then suffer from amnesia. And then again and again. Just like Groundhog Day.

Sorry if that sounds a bit borderline

[Bianca]

No way in hell!  I would have turned around and ran the other way. He even told me in a rare moment of clarity, that although he doesn't want ME to leave him, if he were to advise a friend, he would tell her to run and never look back. 

[Lonely_Astro]

I can only be sure it would have gone very differently. I think my ex would have been hugely relieved if I stayed interested in him without him having to pretend to be someone he isn't--if I had relieved him of the need to mirror to get my approval.

I'm sure that eliminating my shocked reactions when he proved to be so different than he first appeared would have prevented a lot of damage. But at the time, I had no clue what was happening or why.

So knowing could have helped. On the other hand, knowing that there was a long string of women he'd made feel exactly like I felt at the outset, only to get their hearts broken, would have been a big deterrent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  I say that from my experience.  When J and I started our first r/s, I had no idea about BPD and she wasn't diagnosed.  At the very end of our r/s then, she was.  3 years later, we started a new r/s.  She knew she didn't have to pretend to be anyone, she didn't have to wear a mask with me.  She chose to do so anyway, that's how we came to be again.  She seemed so grounded and self aware of her condition.  She was also medicated and had told me she had been through 'intensive therapy' (i.e. DBT).  It turns out, in the end, she was medicated but that she had been seeing a counselor (she had never been through DBT).

So, she knew she didn't have to pretend with me, but she chose to.  She chose to more or less pretend with me the entire year we were back together.  So knowing they have it in the end doesn't matter.

If I could go back 4 years ago with the knowledge I have now, I'd tell myself to be friends with her (she's still a human being) but don't ever consider being more with her.  I took a second shot at the goal with her and it bit me now just like it did then.  That's my fault (and some of hers by presenting herself the way she did).  

It won't happen again.

[Lonely_Astro]

No way in hell!  I would have turned around and ran the other way. He even told me in a rare moment of clarity, that although he doesn't want ME to leave him, if he were to advise a friend, he would tell her to run and never look back. 

Mine outright told me today (we were talking about the ending of our r/s) that she wasn't going to make me any promises and that I didn't deserve to be hurt (the ones she had made she broke and she's hurt me several times throughout the past year so its a little late to be talking so bold).  I took that to mean she was going to do what she wanted and if I was ok with that, fine, if not, hit the road.  So, I hit the road.

Of course, I feel she's only talking that way because she has a new guy that she's seeing (I know this for fact).  Otherwise, she'd still be hanging onto me in limbo.  Monkey brancher that she is.

[SummerStorm]

I can only be sure it would have gone very differently. I think my ex would have been hugely relieved if I stayed interested in him without him having to pretend to be someone he isn't--if I had relieved him of the need to mirror to get my approval.

I'm sure that eliminating my shocked reactions when he proved to be so different than he first appeared would have prevented a lot of damage. But at the time, I had no clue what was happening or why.

So knowing could have helped. On the other hand, knowing that there was a long string of women he'd made feel exactly like I felt at the outset, only to get their hearts broken, would have been a big deterrent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  I say that from my experience.  When J and I started our first r/s, I had no idea about BPD and she wasn't diagnosed.  At the very end of our r/s then, she was.  3 years later, we started a new r/s.  She knew she didn't have to pretend to be anyone, she didn't have to wear a mask with me.  She chose to do so anyway, that's how we came to be again.  She seemed so grounded and self aware of her condition.  She was also medicated and had told me she had been through 'intensive therapy' (i.e. DBT).  It turns out, in the end, she was medicated but that she had been seeing a counselor (she had never been through DBT).

So, she knew she didn't have to pretend with me, but she chose to.  She chose to more or less pretend with me the entire year we were back together.  So knowing they have it in the end doesn't matter.

If I could go back 4 years ago with the knowledge I have now, I'd tell myself to be friends with her (she's still a human being) but don't ever consider being more with her.  I took a second shot at the goal with her and it bit me now just like it did then.  That's my fault (and some of hers by presenting herself the way she did).  

It won't happen again.

Mine was diagnosed in June, after a suicide attempt.  I've been through all of it with her, the very good and the very, very bad.  And yet, like you said, she still wears a mask around me.  She doesn't have to pretend with me.  She doesn't have to put those walls up.  But she does. 

[Learning_curve74]

To turn this question around, do you feel differently about yourself now that you know you were in a relationship with somebody with BPD? Are you a different person in positive or negative ways? What are you doing about it?

My exgf told me about her BPD about 2 months after we started spending all our time together. To be honest I was somewhat relieved and was about to "run" but decided instead to try. We broke up the first year, spent time apart, got back together,  and then broke up again a couple years later.

I don't regret trying to have a healthy fulfilling relationship with a person I loved so much. I learned a lot about myself. I also learned a lot about what I want in a relationship. My only regrets are the time and money I invested in our relationship that I cannot get back. But that goes for anything in life that doesn't end up the way you were hoping for.

[thisworld]

I feel very good that I managed to get out quickly because I come from an emotionally abusive background and was prone to staying in toxic relationships for longer. I believe we are a different person both negatively and positively after every relationship. Whether that changes our core sense of self is unique to everyone I guess. I'm thinking about my own attitudes that made me agree to have this relationship without beating myself down and focusing on learning to ask more questions in the initial stages of knowing someone rather than assuming that certain concepts mean the same thing for everyone.

[tarantula17]

I would have taken it A LOT slower.  I wouldn't have minded years' worth of time spent for my husband to get well before we lived life together.

But I am where I am now, so why look back?  I can only look forward at this point and forward is hard to perceive right now.

[troisette]

No, I'd have run as fast as I could in the opposite direction.

Still tees me off that, having been married to a narcissist, I knew nothing about BPD and didn't recognise the disorder. I thought I was well prepared after a narcissistic husband but although exBPD has narcissistic tendencies, they manifest in a different way and I fell... .hope I'm more wary and more wise in the future.

[anxiety5]

No. I think everyone should answer no to that. If you answer anything BUT no to that, than you still don't understand the dynamic of what you are dealing with, you aren't putting your needs first, and you are trying to fix someone that can't be fixed.

I had NO IDEA what BPD was. I just knew there was something very very very wrong.

[NCEA]

As I wrote in my story thread, the first thing she told me was "I have a boyfriend who doesn't know we broke up yet and 5 lovers, all married". If it was a date with some random girl, I'd have smiled, asked for the check, and run away.

But she was visiting me from another country and we spent 9 days together, 24/7, and it was magical. By the time she left I was hooked.

If it would happen today I'd probably be much more careful. The problem is that I'm too sensitive. A couple of weeks ago I ditched a date because the girl was 7 minutes late and I considered it disrespectful.

Yes, 7 minutes.

[thisworld]

In what way is being too sensitive a problem?

[Heartbroken19]

Knowing what I know now and what I've been through especially if not in treatment, then no I would not have gone into a relationship with him and I certainly wouldn't have married him either.

I wouldn't wish what has happened to us on my worst enemy I finally had to leave him after a 9 year relationship - (5 of those married).  I love the bones if him but his illness and refusal to get treatment (his denial he was sick at all) finally destroyed us. I would give anything to make him well again but it becomes draining emotionally and physically when he makes no attempt to help himself. 

[Lonely_Astro]

To turn this question around, do you feel differently about yourself now that you know you were in a relationship with somebody with BPD? Are you a different person in positive or negative ways? What are you doing about it?

My exgf told me about her BPD about 2 months after we started spending all our time together. To be honest I was somewhat relieved and was about to "run" but decided instead to try. We broke up the first year, spent time apart, got back together,  and then broke up again a couple years later.

I don't regret trying to have a healthy fulfilling relationship with a person I loved so much. I learned a lot about myself. I also learned a lot about what I want in a relationship. My only regrets are the time and money I invested in our relationship that I cannot get back. But that goes for anything in life that doesn't end up the way you were hoping for.

I am both more positive and more negative.  I, like you, agreed to give it another shot because I was more educated about BPD the second time and she was grounded.  Or so it seemed.  There were great times, bad times too.  More bad toward the end than good ones of course.  As it turns out, I was more played the second time around than I had thought.  She had me hoodwinked in a couple of areas I didn't think so.  Luckily for me, only my time was invested in the r/s.  Sure, I bought her lunch, dinners, trinkets, etc. but nothing expensive.  I wasn't going to invest that kind of money on a 'maybe' r/s from the start. 

Don't get me wrong, I was always in the back of my mind unsure if she was lying about if she was 'better' or not.  I told myself I'd go as far as the first oddity and then I was out, but when it happened, I didn't jump ship.  I thought I was being hypersensitive.  As it turned out (later, I found out), I should've pulled the rip chord way back then.  C'est la vie.

If I don't think/focus on the bad stuff, I can say that J and I had a good year.  We laughed, played, and enjoyed each other's company.  There were many laughs, but also many tears.  I gave it my best shot, given our circumstances, but that sunset has came and went.  I am going through my own night, but dawn will come soon enough.

[Thread]

If I had been fully educated on the disorder, no I wouldn't have, because then I would have known when the reality of it came I would have know that was the Bpd characteristics and not just a bad day or an off moment. I would have followed through with breaking up with him the three times I tried.

[VitaminC]

... .I would have known when the reality of it came I would have know that was the Bpd characteristics and not just a bad day or an off moment.

That's exactly the point. IF one were fully educated on this particular disorder THEN one would see more clearly what is actually happening and THEN one could do as a previous poster said:

"Having a successful relationship with someone who is suffering from a disorder requires a highly developed emotional  intelligence, finely tuned communication skills and rock solid boundaries."

{sorry, I copied this because it was such a good sentence and am not quoting, as I should}

Add to the above formula an awareness of one's own pathologies (or mechanisms, etc) and THEN you have a chance, maybe. 

The switches in focus, the changes in mood, the closeness followed by sudden distance - all the things I perceived and tried to understand rationally, reacted to in various (unhelpful & emotional) ways, and was wounded by - all those things are explained via the disorder. Everyone is capable of all those kinds of actions and reactions; they are not necessarily a diagnosable pathology, but as we all know, it's a question of degree and patterns that go way back and are endlessly repeated.

Instead of staying intrigued and hanging around an enigma and letting myself get further and further sucked in to eventual circular and crazy discussions, IF I had known about the disorder, I would have known to throw up my hands and say "nope, this one needs a professional and I am not one, so I'm done".

[Lonely_Astro]

... .I would have known when the reality of it came I would have know that was the Bpd characteristics and not just a bad day or an off moment.

That's exactly the point. IF one were fully educated on this particular disorder THEN one would see more clearly what is actually happening and THEN one could do as a previous poster said:

"Having a successful relationship with someone who is suffering from a disorder requires a highly developed emotional  intelligence, finely tuned communication skills and rock solid boundaries."

{sorry, I copied this because it was such a good sentence and am not quoting, as I should}

Add to the above formula an awareness of one's own pathologies (or mechanisms, etc) and THEN you have a chance, maybe. 

The switches in focus, the changes in mood, the closeness followed by sudden distance - all the things I perceived and tried to understand rationally, reacted to in various (unhelpful & emotional) ways, and was wounded by - all those things are explained via the disorder. Everyone is capable of all those kinds of actions and reactions; they are not necessarily a diagnosable pathology, but as we all know, it's a question of degree and patterns that go way back and are endlessly repeated.

Instead of staying intrigued and hanging around an enigma and letting myself get further and further sucked in to eventual circular and crazy discussions, IF I had known about the disorder, I would have known to throw up my hands and say "nope, this one needs a professional and I am not one, so I'm done".

Even going in fully prepared is pretty much useless.  J and I had many many discussions about our past and her BPD.  We set out guidelines as a "just in case" measure if she started showing (prolonged) traits and how to approach those moments.  She told me she was on meds and had intensive therapy for her BPD (I directly asked if it was dbt, she said it had been).  All those talks, measures, and safeguards were for nothing.  She lied about "intensive therapy" (she was seeing a counselor) and she stopped going a couple of months into our r/s. 

When traits starting coming, I went to our guidelines and she got mad.  I tried my hardest to work through it, but it didn't matter.  This past year was a rough one and I can now see how much she used me, lied to me, manipulated me, and abused me.  Oh, it's all my fault, too because I agreed to be in a r/s with her.  At the very end, she said to me (after 3 months of pushing me away, days of ST, dating another guy) "I can't and won't make you any promises.  You don't deserve to be hurt and need to do what's best for you."   When I told her I was leaving, her response was "that's your decision, I understand, I'm not with R (the guy she's been dating while I was in limbo) but ok."  So, it's still my fault I'm walking away.

Welcome to BPD.