Unsure re: dating profile

[shatra]

Hi---

   I knew my ex had a dating profile before we met, and he took it down a month after we met.  Before we broke up I checked and saw that for the first time in years, the profile was up and "active"... .I asked him about it and he said computer hackers had reactivated it (to collect the emails and phone numbers of women online, for marketing).  His computer actually was hacked, but I am looking back and wanting more clarity.

The reasons it might have been him reactivating the profile:

---It did happen a month before we broke up and I have heard BPDs do this---set up a new person before leaving the loved one

---The website showed he did click on 2 emails sent from the website (though he didn't stay onliine afterwards to "search" for people), he did click on the emails re: dates that were sent to him from the website

---The profile had a recent photo  of him at his niece's birthday (a photo he had downloaded on his "hacked" computer) added to the website, along with a new headline

The reasons I don't think it was him who reactivated it:

--The new "headline was 'Me' " and I read an article on computer hackers taking and reactivating dating profiles, and a common way to spot this is they change the headline to  one English word that's easy to spell

---I read about a list of complaints from many users of that dating website, who had similar experiences (ex: they took down their profile and years later saw on the site that it is listed as "active"

----The next day, I was out to lunch with him, and I checked the profile and it was listed as "currently online and active"  and yet he was with me, nowhere near a computer, and with his phone off (sounding more like it wasn't him who was using the profile)

----Hackers can easily take photos that are downloaded on a computer, and upload them to a website

---WHen he got the problem fixed, I saw the new anti-malware software his brother downloaded on his computer, and also, once that was downloaded ---which would "block" the hackers from access, his dating profile was never activated again. In other words, by then he and I had broken up, so he had no reason to not use the dating website, but it wasn't used at all once the software protected the computer... .The profile had only been "activated" for a short time, not enough time for him to meet a new person and decide to not look for anyone else from the site (if it was really him who reactivated the profile)

   I know BPDs often cheat and lie, but I also know computers are hacked, so any feedback would be appreciated.

Thank you

[thisworld]

I think our inner voice is more important than the actual action. Is your inner voice telling you that he is someone capable of this? If yes, there is a trust issue which will not be resolved by discovering the reality in regard to this particular example. 

[shatra]

I'm not sure---he was basically honest, but I am wondering if there is any feedback re: the details I listed above... .I am suspicious mostly because I read that pwBPD often cheat and lie

[Sunfl0wer]

I knew my ex had a dating profile before we met, and he took it down a month after we met.

He is your ex?

You may have to proceed as though you will never really know the truth on this one.

So assuming you cannot prove one way or the other, what is next for you in your healing journey?

[vortex of confusion]

I'm not sure---he was basically honest, but I am wondering if there is any feedback re: the details I listed above... .I am suspicious mostly because I read that pwBPD often cheat and lie

I don't know if whether or not that was him or not is even relevant at this point. I used to get so caught up in what my stbx was or wasn't doing that I lost sight of the fact that if it was a healthy relationship or if he was a trustworthy person, I wouldn't even be thinking such things. Those doubtful kinds of thoughts wouldn't even be there if his behavior hadn't been the way it was. Are you suspicious because of the BPD label or are you suspicious because of HIM and HIS behavior?

[half-life]

Don't over analysis things. It just bring you stress.

He is your ex. Does it matter to you so much whether he has a profile or not?

[shatra]

sunflower wrote--

You may have to proceed as though you will never really know the truth on this one.  So assuming you cannot prove one way or the other, what is next for you in your healing journey?

---If I had a clearer sense of whether it was him or not, that would shed a lot of light on the relationship (whether he was cheating or not would make a big difference to me), and help clear things up for me. That would advance my healing.

[shatra]

Vortex wrote---

I don't know if whether or not that was him or not is even relevant at this point.

---It's relevant to me.  Looking back on the relationship with someone who was faithful would feel very different than with one who had cheated.

Are you suspicious because of the BPD label or are you suspicious because of HIM and HIS behavior?

---I am only suspicious because of the profile which was reactivated while we were still together, and the BPD label.  He didn't give any other cause for suspicion, and claimed it was hackers who reactivated it

Halflife wrote---

Don't over analysis things. It just bring you stress.  He is your ex. Does it matter to you so much whether he has a profile or not?

---It's the not knowing that is bringing me stress.  Analyzing it would bring me a calmer feeling.  He does not have a dating profile.  As I wrote in my post, his profile was reactivated while I was still with him. 

    It matters to me because I am grieving the relationship and a faithful relationship is very different and brings up different feelings than one where the partner was unfaithful.  Another reason it matters is that he has reached out to me, and how I respond to that would differ if he was faithful or unfaithful in the past

[half-life]

shatra, then I will give you an answer. There is no hacker. He activated it himself.

I worked in computer security for a while. Hackers' time is very valuable. They are out there to make money, just like all of us do. They wouldn't waste their time do practical joke, going as far as uploading your ex's picture into a dating site. You ex is not comfortable to explain to you why he did what he did. So he made this excuse.

[Sunfl0wer]

Unfortunately... .after going through my own struggles to detach and find closure... .  The reality is that the nature of these relationships often leaves us very unsettled after a break up.  It is confusing.  We seem to have a ton of questions that may never get answered.

We often have to continue our healing process completely solo without much understanding about what the other person is thinking, doing, how they are motivated, etc.

Even if we think we have them figured out... .Well... .there is instability in their identity... .so that changes.  Then their behavior really doesn't make so much logical sense... .hence many of or original head scratching cues while in the relationship.

We are often equally or more confused at the ending of the r/s as we were disoriented while in it.

Finding solutions and healing that is independent of anything about them seems to be most fruitful.

[vortex of confusion]

---It's relevant to me.  Looking back on the relationship with someone who was faithful would feel very different than with one who had cheated.

How do you define cheating? I ask because there have been times in my relationship when my stbx was not with another person but I felt very much cheated on because he was giving so much of his time and attention to other things. I was reading an article the other day about how there are so many little things that can damage a relationship that don't involve cheating.

It might help you to think about why it would feel so different. I have struggled with the cheating issue at different times over the years. Cheating is one of many ways that a person can disrespect you and treat you poorly. In the early days, I used to get dismissed a lot with, "At least he isn't cheating." It felt as though I was supposed to be okay with being treated poorly because he wasn't cheating.

    It matters to me because I am grieving the relationship and a faithful relationship is very different and brings up different feelings than one where the partner was unfaithful.  Another reason it matters is that he has reached out to me, and how I respond to that would differ if he was faithful or unfaithful in the past

If he has reached out to you, can you look at other factors that could be considered that don't involve having an answer about being faithful? If you have any doubt at all, it might be a good idea to walk away as those doubts could potentially cloud a lot of stuff and make things more difficult.

Is there any answer that would set your mind at ease? If you had a definitive answer that yes he was or no he wasn't, would you believe it? I ask that because I have struggled with similar questions of is he or isn't he doing something. Part of the grieving process is to deal with all of those unanswered questions. It is very difficult to find ways to deal with the uncertainty.

[Confused?]

sunflower wrote--

You may have to proceed as though you will never really know the truth on this one.  So assuming you cannot prove one way or the other, what is next for you in your healing journey?

---If I had a clearer sense of whether it was him or not, that would shed a lot of light on the relationship (whether he was cheating or not would make a big difference to me), and help clear things up for me. That would advance my healing.

Cheating is a deal breaker for a lot of people. Is this the reason you want to know. Because if he did then you wouldn't take him back. Or are you scared you might take him back but you aren't sure he cheated? It seems like you just want the answer to be yes so you can go through anger instead of grief.

I was like you at one point post break up. Mine cheated on me, but in her head we weren't together. I was replaced and smeared. I never thought my ex would ever do this. I started thinking about all the other times she could have cheated. It was not helping my process. The only time I started to heal was to say the hell with her, I need to work on myself. You will never have all the answers to anything in life. All you can do is learn and move forward.

[shatra]

Half life wrote--

I worked in computer security for a while. Hackers' time is very valuable. They are out there to make money, just like all of us do. They wouldn't waste their time do practical joke, going as far as uploading your ex's picture into a dating site.

----True, but I have actually had my own photos lifted and used by hackers. I read about a list of complaints from many users of that dating website, who had similar experiences (ex: they took down their profile and years later saw on the site that their profile is listed as "active". When I was out to lunch with him, I checked the profile and it was listed as "currently online and active"  and yet he was with me, nowhere near a computer, and with his phone off, so how was it him?

    When he got the problem fixed, I saw the new anti-malware software his brother downloaded on his computer, and once that was downloaded ---which would "block" the hackers from access, his dating profile was never activated again.

     So you can see why it's confusing----there are issues that point to hackers and issues that point to him

[shatra]

vortex wrote----

  It might help you to think about why it would feel so different.

-----I would be more angry, and I would devalue the past relationship, if I knew that he was cheating during it.

Is there any answer that would set your mind at ease? If you had a definitive answer that yes he was or no he wasn't, would you believe it?  Part of the grieving process is to deal with all of those unanswered questions.

----Yes, if I had even a 90 percent definite answer, based on the facts I wrote in my original post, that would allow me to let this issue go.  Since he has said (even after the breakup) that it was hackers, and not him, I can't get more info from him.  I was wondering if someone here with experience would look at the info in my original post and say for sure it was hackers or not. There is "evidence" that it was not my ex, and "evidence" that it could have been him.

Confused wrote

Cheating is a deal breaker for a lot of people. Is this the reason you want to know. Because if he did then you wouldn't take him back. Or are you scared you might take him back but you aren't sure he cheated?

-----I would want to know just to reduce my confusion... .again, I am familiar with the website, and one article estimated that 20 percent of the "dating profiles"  are either created by, or reactivated by hackers, who include newer photos hacked from computers. I'm also suspicious because as soon as anti-hacker software was installed on his computer, the profile was never accessed again... .

---I am not sure I would take him back, but if he cheated it would make me very wary about it

Thanks

[shatra]

I'm feeling confused----still "facts" on the side of him having had the profile while we were together, and "facts" showing it was computer hackers.  I would not want to take him back if he had cheated while we were together. Any other people have experience with computers/dating websites?

[thisworld]

If you want to get the answer for sure, would he be able to write something to the website - "was there suspicious action in regards to my page?" and maybe show you the answer? Or you get the computer and take it to a specialist/repair people etc? These would give you the answer - though I personally don't think these actions would help any relationship. With or without hacking, there seems to be trust issue. Woudn't it affect your future?

[half-life]

I'm not sure what you are looking for. At first I think you should just let go. But you said you want to know the truth. So I told you the truth. But you still stick with your confusing ideas and "evidence" of hacking. What more can I tell you?

(sorry I was so blunt)

[shatra]

This world wrote: If you want to get the answer for sure, would he be able to write something to the website - "was there suspicious action in regards to my page?"  With or without hacking, there seems to be trust issue. Woudn't it affect your future?

-----He said he contacted the website, and after that (and having his brother install anti-spyware) the profile was never accessed again. I read about a list of complaints from many users of that dating website, who had similar experiences (ex: they took down their profile and years later saw on the site that it is listed as "active"  Yes, the trust issue would affect my future with him, that's why I am trying to clear up whether it was him or not.

Halflife wrote---

I'm not sure what you are looking for.  I told you the truth. But you still stick with your confusing ideas and "evidence" of hacking.

----I am looking for a more definite answer. The "truth" you said has some evidence, but hackers activating the website also happens (estimated 20 percent of the profiles on that site are hacked and reactivated). When I was out to lunch with him, I checked the profile and it was listed as "currently online and active"  and yet he was with me, nowhere near a computer, and with his phone off (sounding more like it wasn't him who was using the profile)

    I know several other people who have had their photos/info hacked and dating profiles hacked, so it is possible that it wasn't him.  I was wondering if someone had experience with this issue

[thisworld]

Shatra hi,

My comments will be about discovering the truth if that's possible in any way. Again, I don't think these are advisable or constructive steps in a relationship. But, if you are after truth, how feasible or possible is it to discover it by asking questions to the person whom you believe may have cheated on you? You are saying that he said he contacted the website. Did you see any liaison? Any proof of what he says? Date of when that happened is important, too. If you really want to question his motives, why is he installing spyware after a site gets hacked? How exactly did this hacking happen according to him? Did they steal his password from his computer? Really, it's as easy as taking this computer to a service and asking whether there were any intrusions. Every single thing is recorded on that computer - including how he activated his account with his own hands, if he did it. He can prove the hacking to you if he wants to. But he may as well pull the usual thing and say "If you are questioning this, I will prove nothing to you."

I understand that there are lots of incidents where the website was hacked. If you are after truth though, that logic doesn't work because you are looking for what you want to see and the browser or the Internet shows you results related with that. That has overall validity but doesn't ensure validity in your case. Similarly, if you google borderlines with sociopathic traits or borderline assassins, the Internet will give you lots of numbers or information confirming your search, but it doesn't mean that this man is either.

By trust, I don't mean being able to put trust in the future only. Whether he is guilty of this account activation or not, it seems like you don't trust him. You're not simply laughing this off, you are looking for evidence. Without solving this trust issue that you have, it would be difficult to relate to him I think. Sometimes we think that we don't have a trust issue, we just need to know the truth. Still, the fact that we are unsure of truth hints at a trust problem.

Also, maybe he isn't showing it to you at the moment, but I feel that he would have a trust issue with you now as well. probably, he doesn't trust that you trust him.

I think these are seriously more detrimental to your relationship than a reactivated online dating page.

[shatra]

thisworld wrote---

he said he contacted the website. Did you see any liaison? Any proof of what he says? If you really want to question his motives, why is he installing spyware after a site gets hacked?

-----The "proof" is that after he contacted them and installed anti-spyware, the dating profile was never "activated" again. That makes it sound like it was hackers... .if it was him, he would still be using the profile even after that. He installed the spyware because his bank info as well as the old dating profile were hacked (he said), and he wanted to protect the computer.

How exactly did this hacking happen according to him? Did they steal his password from his computer? Really, it's as easy as taking this computer to a service and asking whether there were any intrusions.

-------He said he didn't have the spyware protection on the computer before that (which is true).  When he took the computer to the tech dept and asked if there were intrusions, they told him that "50 different users have accessed your computer"... .and that once hackers hacked it, they would have been able to get his passwords and read his email, use his accounts,  etc.

He can prove the hacking to you if he wants to. But he may as well pull the usual thing and say "If you are questioning this, I will prove nothing to you."

-----Exactly. He got mad and pushed me away since I didn't trust him

I understand that there are lots of incidents where the website was hacked. If you are after truth though, that logic doesn't work because you are looking for what you want to see and the browser or the Internet shows you results related with that. That has overall validity but doesn't ensure validity in your case. Similarly, if you google borderlines with sociopathic traits or borderline assassins, the Internet will give you lots of numbers or information confirming your search, but it doesn't mean that this man is either.

----Do u mean that if I google "hacking dating websites" and see that 20 percent of profiles have been hacked and reactivated by hackers, it doesn't necessarily mean he did that?  True, but also if I google "BPD cheat often, and go on dating websites" I will see some articles on that, but it also doesn't mean he cheated... .back to square one.

By trust, I don't mean being able to put trust in the future only. Whether he is guilty of this account activation or not, it seems like you don't trust him.

----Yes I am feeling confused and I don't trust him... .but not because of his behavior when I was with him, because of 2 main things:

1  BPDs often cheat

2  His dating profile was reactivated (either by him or by hackers)

   I appreciate the info. It would just be a shame to not return to the relationship over this, if in fact he is being honest, and the dating profile truly was hacked.  The main piece of "evidence" for that is the timeline of his brother installing the anti-spyware and the dating profile never being accessed again after that day.

Thanks

[thisworld]

Shatra, I feel for you. Putting so much love, so much effort into a relationship and then dropping or not dropping  things because of something that may not even have happened (online dating) is a very difficult situation.

Here, the only "evidence" - if this is what you are basing your actions on- is a written log of computer access activity from those tech guys, which will only be partial actually. This will probably contain IP addresses that will give you an idea. Then, at that level, you guys may find yourselves discussing whether those were real IPs, IPs he created himself to hide his traces etc. How would you know whether the guy got a temporary IP from, say, Japan and accessed his account from that? For this to be "evidence", maybe a more detailed log or analysis would be necessary. It's an endless pit, really. And I'm very sorry for this.

Even if you go back, I feel that you'll pay for this (questioning him like that) considerably. With BPD logic, it may - only may- even result in cheating now. "You didn't trust me (triggering abandonment), so I felt X,Y,Z and cheated." Other, positive behaviours are possible, too. But, I see that he didn't show you much empathy in this. he chose to pull away rather than empathizing with you and trying to build trust. ıf this was my ex, this would turn me a persecutor in his eyes - which, at one point, it did.

To me, the most constructive thing seems to let go if you want to go back - and personally, now that I'm back, I'd apologize and try to build his trust.

I know I'm writing these long e-mails and you are taking time to reply. Thank you for that, Shatra. I hope we can all find peace and serenity whatever our choices are.

Hugs,