"Quiet", waif, "as-if" aspects: your stories please

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm curious about what folks here have experienced with their exes who did NOT have the outward raging or devaluing abuse (verbal and/or physical.) Because of the fact that she did not ever act in any way angry or aggressive, it hasn't been til recently that I figured out that my ex is uBPD. (I think it was here that I learned of the "quiet bordeline" type.) However, almost every single other BPD trait seems to apply, as well as the inward-rage self-harm stuff associated with the quiet variety. She was definitely a waif (and I was/am a rescuer.) The as-if thing was so present, she would change her name for every group she cycled through or was part of. She had different names for her girlfriends, her workplaces, friend groups, her family, even a drunk alter-ego and the rehab she ended up in. Total chameleon.

Of course I thought it wasn't abuse because she wasn't yelling mean things at me. Now I am coming to understand the passive control and FOG manipulation to which I ceded my power.

I welcome all insights on this. What was your experience with this aspect/flavor of BPD? If it isn't your experience directly, what are your thoughts?

Thanks, all. This website and you all are making a profound difference in my healing. I've been reeling for so long, the information here is incredibly stabilizing.

[VeraTrue]

I'm curious about what folks here have experienced with their exes who did NOT have the outward raging or devaluing abuse (verbal and/or physical.) Because of the fact that she did not ever act in any way angry or aggressive, it hasn't been til recently that I figured out that my ex is uBPD. (I think it was here that I learned of the "quiet bordeline" type.) However, almost every single other BPD trait seems to apply, as well as the inward-rage self-harm stuff associated with the quiet variety. She was definitely a waif (and I was/am a rescuer.) The as-if thing was so present, she would change her name for every group she cycled through or was part of. She had different names for her girlfriends, her workplaces, friend groups, her family, even a drunk alter-ego and the rehab she ended up in. Total chameleon.

Of course I thought it wasn't abuse because she wasn't yelling mean things at me. Now I am coming to understand the passive control and FOG manipulation to which I ceded my power.

I welcome all insights on this. What was your experience with this aspect/flavor of BPD? If it isn't your experience directly, what are your thoughts?

Thanks, all. This website and you all are making a profound difference in my healing. I've been reeling for so long, the information here is incredibly stabilizing.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey VT-

Total chameleon.

Yes, someone without a stable sense of self and a continuous need to attach to people to feel 'whole' will be whoever they need to be in a given situation.  We all do that to an extent, present a different affect depending on the company, although most folks don't have the attachment focus and intensity that a borderline does.

And what all borderlines have in common is that need to attach to feel whole, and the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment once an attachment is formed, all coming out of a lack of a 'self' of their own.

I can't comment on the waif borderline specifically, although there's plenty to read on this site, and others will weigh in too.

So have you begun to dig into why you are a rescuer and where that came from VT?

[Newton]

Hey VeraTrue ... .

It's heartening to hear you are finding this place valuable... .it was my lifeline when I was in the eye of the storm!... .

I experienced silent rage... .sometimes for days... often for weeks at a time.  It is so controlling, invalidating, unsettling and dehumanising that at times I wished she would scream at me just to witness the fact I existed in her world  

Of course as soon as someone else knocked at the door or rang she would be a bundle of joy... .later explaining "well I don't hate them... they didn't do x,y,z to me like you do"... .

[Lonely_Astro]

J is both as waif and chameleon.  She is diagnosed, on meds, and (allegedly) going to DBT.  Oh, also high functioning.

So what's it like being involved with one of them?  Terrible.  You don't know when they're mad at you because they're quiet about it.  The only way you figure it out is once you recognize ST.  The ST episodes got longer and longer.  It was tiresome of hearing about her physical woes all the time (headaches, body aches, stomach aches, etc).  The world was always out to get her and she was always sick.

She is dangerous.  I say that because she's fully aware of what she does to people (hurts them) because she would often say that.  But, that doesn't stop her.  She continues on and blames it on the other person for allowing her to hurt them.  It would be easier I think to detach/leave a violent BP over the quiet type because your hero complex really kicks in.  It's not until you're in deep before you realize you've been had.  I doubted my resolve when I made the new year my time to step away from her.  I see more clearly with each day just how mentally/emotionally abused I was.  The sad part is I still care about her but I also realize just how sick she really is.

[FlyingJ]

My exBPDgf had waif type. When I was researching BPD traits, everything for her fit to the T except for the outward rage. But then I stumbled upon the waif type and bingo! She would often be very passive aggressive. She never lashed out and yelled, called names, raged, but it was a passive aggressive emotional rage. She had a way of controlling me emotionally, with her eyes. I knew when she was upset. It was an inner rage towards herself, and me. I often got a short passive aggressive answer and attitude for things she didn't approve of. Which was pretty much everything. That led me to "walking on eggshells." I couldn't even go to the store after work without her silent-pissed off-passive aggressive-rage because surly, I must have been "meeting up with a girl secretly and cheating on her."

[SummerStorm]

I mostly see the waif side of her.  She never yells at me in person.  She just sends really mean texts and gives me the silent treatment.  Her ex got it a million times worse than me.  He experienced physical abuse, insults in person and in texts, and the silent treatment.  And when she sent me the worst insults ever, she quickly pretended that her boyfriend had taken her phone and was texting me from it.  Other than that one time, the worst thing she ever called me was a poison.  It obviously hurt a lot, especially coming a week after I had visited her in the hospital, but in the scheme of things, it's really not that bad.  She could call me all of those things, but she had to pretend to be someone else to do it.  With him, she would just go at him and rage.  She's a lot worse when she is smoking pot.  That increases her irritability and anger tenfold.  

Like Lonely_Astro said, the ST episodes just get longer and longer.  First, it would be for a few hours.  Then, a day.  Then, a few days.  Then, weeks/months.  I haven't seen my pwBPD since June, so it's very easy for her to give me the ST.  If she doesn't like a text I send her, it's "Bye."  I thought for a long time that she had me blocked, and she may have for a little bit, but I think she mostly just ignores my texts.  On December 3rd, she blocked me on Facebook and said goodbye, but when I sent her a "Merry Christmas" text, she replied within a few hours (she worked on Christmas and replied as soon as she read it), so I obviously wasn't blocked.  

So, she has a violent side to her, but I've never seen it, and I really hope I never do.  If she ever rages at me in person, I'm out.  That is where I draw the line.    

[Invictus01]

In my very much not scientific opinion, the more high functioning they are, the less BPD they are and the more other flavors of PD they are... .Just my opinion, I am sure I will get slammed for this kind of thinking.

[Lonely_Astro]

So, she has a violent side to her, but I've never seen it, and I really hope I never do.  If she ever rages at me in person, I'm out.  That is where I draw the line.    

I once asked J about being violent because I never saw it from her.  Her response was "oh, I want to be a lot.  I just hold it back because I can control it.  If I didnt, it wouldn't be pretty."  Pretty much summed it up.

In my very much not scientific opinion, the more high functioning they are, the less BPD they are and the more other flavors of PD they are... .Just my opinion, I am sure I will get slammed for this kind of thinking.

I liken the HF ones more to psychopaths (ASPD) than "BPD".  My T told me that most of the time men are diagnosed ASPD whereas women are diagnosed BPD.  Yes, I know they are both Cluster B and they both can be co-morbid, but with J she is conscious of the fact that "somethings wrong", she even knows what it is, but she simply doesn't care.  She'll tell you that she "cares to much", but the truth is actually the opposite.  She will willfully hurt people close to her and blame it on her disorder (or someone/thing else).  She knows right from wrong, she just chooses to do whatever it is she wants to do.  I don't definitely mean "in the moment", either.

At least with LF BPD's you know where you stand.  With HF, they are chameleon's and you don't see it coming until it's to late.  I consider J to be extraordinary.  Not all HF BPDs understand or even know what's wrong with them.  Her, on the other hand, is acutely aware of her condition.  That still doesn't stop her.  If that's not criminal, I don't know what is.

[VeraTrue]

Thanks everybody. This is really helpful. The gettinbetter link was great too. To answer the question about why I was/am a rescuer... .this is complicated. In my earlier years I had a history of rescuing to some degree, more like constant caretaking and problem-solving. (Of course it came from my childhood.) I went through a lot of therapy for said childhood, and ended a pretty long marriage where my spouse at the time would not take responsibility for life in general and I was carrying too much weight. I was also always the type who was counselor to all my friends, they leaned on me and I let them. Then... .I found a new career to channel that tendency and talent in a healthy way. Learned all about self-care. My relationships improved, and I proceeded to have another significant  marriage, which ended very amicably. But that caretaker was always inside me, and when I fell in love with my exBPDgf, the urgency of her situation and the life-or-death nature triggered it all back into action. I had all the skills, all the tendencies... .and she was absolutely so suicidal. I write about this in other posts... .it was terrifying and I threw out all the normal self-care, boundaries, and accountability stuff I had been good at for over a decade. Everything became about preventing her suicidal spiral. I tried to get her family involved, at first they blamed me until they experienced an episode without me and saw it for themselves. We all tried to get her medical care but that system was inadequate and not at all effective as it only focused on her (severe) alcohol addiction to the exclusion of her other disorders. (I didn't know about quiet BPD yet.) My fear and belief that she was going to die at her own hand became my primary driver for everything, not getting that this was her way of saying "F**k it, and F**k you" to me and the world, and to herself really. I believed she was a victim to her symptoms and maybe she was. Or maybe... .she did exactly what she wanted. Maybe it was entertaining for her to watch me run crazy for her.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey VT-

My fear and belief that she was going to die at her own hand became my primary driver for everything, not getting that this was her way of saying "F**k it, and F**k you" to me and the world, and to herself really. I believed she was a victim to her symptoms and maybe she was. Or maybe... .she did exactly what she wanted. Maybe it was entertaining for her to watch me run crazy for her.

Entertaining maybe, or likely confirmation that she was in control.  Borderlines fear both abandonment and engulfment, opposing fears, and a handy way to deal with both fears concurrently is to be in control of the relationship: if you're running around taking care of her, your 'primary driver', and in fear, you won't leave, and if she's in control she can regulate the emotional distance in the relationship, so she won't feel engulfed.  Some borderlines rage and devalue to affect that control, some threaten to kill themselves; use what's available in a partner, in you it's your caretaker mode.  Not necessarily malicious mind you, just someone dealing with a mental illness best they can, trying to survive like the rest of us, with limited resources and a unique focus. 

Caretaking is also a way to control, somewhat different from rescuing: carrying too much weight with your husband, counselor to your friends, coaching, all positions of power, a way to get our needs for significance met.  And if a borderline, someone who both craves and fears being controlled, enters that orbit, threatening to kill herself might be an attractive way to take control back.  Just my hallucination VT, maybe there's something to it for you, or ignore as needed.  Take care of you!

[MakingMyWay]

My undiagnosed ex was a waif I believe. It was hard because I do believe that she was a victim of her situation and her symptoms. Her mother was quiet clearly emotionally abusive and very likely also had a personality disorder, probably NPD. I know this is true, since I saw it with my own eyes. But at the same time my ex was pretty aware of her behaviour but did nothing to make progress towards preventing it, mind you I reacted very emotionally towards them, which wouldn't have helped. I wish I had more of an understanding at the time.

As a few have mentioned the covert nature of the abuse makes it hard to identify. I only really noticed it after she had broken up with me and replaced me. I went to therapy for the first time and the therapist asked me "What do you like about yourself?" and my mind was just blank. I had been worn down so much, thinking about her over me and trying to avoid upsetting her so much that I completely lost who I was.

Then the question is why I let it go on for so long? Why did I keep trying to rescue her only to have her jump straight back in and I am really proud of all the progress I have made to stop that happening again. But I still can't shake the feeling that if she tried to come back, I would at least attempt to get her into therapy, hopefully without getting drawn into a relationship with her again. But if she continued to lie to me, I would just walk away.

[VeraTrue]

Caretaking is also a way to control, somewhat different from rescuing: carrying too much weight with your husband, counselor to your friends, coaching, all positions of power, a way to get our needs for significance met.  And if a borderline, someone who both craves and fears being controlled, enters that orbit, threatening to kill herself might be an attractive way to take control back.  Just my hallucination VT, maybe there's something to it for you, or ignore as needed.  Take care of you!

This is a core issue and it is what feels so frustrating. I worked so hard and felt I had largely put the caretaking thing to bed, even in the ending of my second marriage, I simply stated what I needed and when it didn't happen I just initiated the end of the marriage and transition to friendliness. No saving, no convincing, just... .I'm done living with your bad choices. I'm even doing that right now by not allowing a particular person in my life to manipulate me to get what they want. I chose against becoming a therapist, opting for a business career where there would be no pathology to fix, but where developing personal responsibility is key to progress for everyone. But like a healed broken bone that aches when it rains, caretaking is always a part of my history. And this woman was a monsoon. It took the real likelihood of successful suicide to bring it out of me, but I went there, oh yes I did. Ironically, one reason it kept happening I think is that I kept refusing to keep control of the situation, and attempted to give control back to her as soon as she was out of an episode. It was confusing why she wasn't picking it up, why she just stayed so passive... .did she not want autonomy? I thought at the time I was only dealing with her addiction and anxiety, which I now see were symptoms of her BPD, not the central issues. I've said this somewhere else so forgive me if redundant but I actually told her after yet another relapse (when she knew exactly what the chain of events leading to suicide actually was, so when she initiated another one after she had that information I finally got she was truly beyond controlling herself) that I loved her but it was killing me, and I wasn't going to do the pattern anymore, but I also didn't want to let her die, and I needed there needed to be another solution bc treatment was failing. She asked for my help in getting real help and I agreed. I didn't know she would experience that as abandonment but she did. I think somewhere in there, my insistence that she get real help was akin to my feeding her to the wolves of her psyche. And she probably only went through with it because she had no replacements lined up. But of course, she found them in rehab. Sigh. She didn't want to face reality and get better, she wanted me to keep caretaking and she went as far as it took to trigger that in me. Almost like a coincidence, she had these handy suicidal urges she could go ahead and indulge knowing I'd save her a** because it was irreversible. And... .I danced to that tune. Now, I know not to get on that dancefloor to begin with. Once I stopped dancing to the suicide tune, the new caretaking tune became "find me a real rehab or I'll die" which she played until she identified her her target replacement.