How to respond?

[LepoqueModerne]

Looking for a little advice on how to respond to a recent letter I received. I am relatively new to learning about BPD and the associated communication techniques and would love some extra wisdom/thoughts/experiences!

I had posted earlier about getting a cruel “apology” letter from my uBPD Queen MIL (When she says “jump” everyone must ask “how high?” OR ELSE). Ultimately, I didn’t respond, but we have been working on asserting ourselves and our boundaries, so my husband wrote back that he wasn’t happy with the apology and wouldn’t be handing any more letters to me unless they were appropriate. She made another attempt at an apology, which I didn’t see but was apparently a slightly less jarring version of the same blame-filled note. My husband told her he was still not happy with this. Getting a “No” seemed to cause her to go into full panic mode.  She was making desperate calls to her son that were all over the place several times a day. Calling at 4am yelling that his brother wasn’t home yet and it was all his fault because he moved away. That he doesn’t love his family and is betraying everyone he loves by being with me. That she is feeling very depressed and just needs her son back to be happy again. That I am evil and just trying to steal him away from her. That I am a bad person for even seeing anything wrong with her apology etc etc. My husband (who had not been responding to these calls/voice messages) eventually wrote back to one of her many emails “If you can’t admit you’ve done anything wrong then we’ve hit a wall and I’m not sure how to move forward”. Silence for another week.

This time we got a third apology letter in the mail. This one, if you were to read it without knowing any backstory, would sound like a genuine apology. She is sorry for the things she said last year. She doesn’t want to be controlling and wants us to be able to make our own choices. I am of the opinion that the apology is out of fear of losing her son rather than any kind of remorse. So despite this one being infinitely better than the previous “apologies”, it still doesn’t feel genuine to me. Also, in trying to get this apology out she’s accumulated a long list of new things that would (under normal circumstance), merit an apology! For my husband, receiving this letter has been enough for him to decide to return to casual contact. He is the one that wanted his mother to apologize in the first place, and he has gotten a response he can work with- so fair enough. For myself, I would still like to stay at very very low contact (For the past year I have done little more than sign the Christmas and birthday cards we send).

I understand the key to these types of situations is to validate the valid. Should I respond to the positive things in her most recent letter even if I don’t feel like it was genuine? I know I am not yet strong enough to jump back on the crazy-making roller coaster that is having her in my life in any significant way. Even if I did send a short thank you/ I forgive you letter, I would not want to reconcile at this time. Thoughts?

[Turkish]

There's a saying here, "validate the valid, invalidate the invalid."

The issue with pwBPD is that there is a lot of invalid. No answer, or No Contact, while sometimes necessary to keep one safe, can sometimes elicit more dysregulation. Check this out and let me know if it would help:

TOOLS: Responding to hostile email

[Kwamina]

Hi LepoqueModerne

The link Turkish shared with you is very good so I hope you check it out. It's about the B.I.F.F. technique for handling hostile or inappropriate (text/email) communications. The acronym B.I.F.F. stands for Brief, Informative, Friendly (as in civil) and Firm.

When setting and enforcing boundaries I think it's important to keep in mind that boundaries are primarily for keeping us safe. Boundaries help us protect ourselves and preserve our well-being, regardless of whether the other person changes or not:

Boundaries are how we define our values to others.   A boundary is nothing more than the outer perimeters of our independent core values -  it's like a fence  - anything inside the boundary is consistent with our core values and anything outside the boundary is not.  For example, if your independent core value is "always to be respectful of others" a boundary question might be "would abruptly walking out of the room when someone says something offensive be inside or outside of your definition of this value?"  It's not always obvious as we all see things differently.  As you can quickly see, with values, we have a significant responsibility to lead, educate and inform others - we must walk the walk, have effective communication and be consistent.

We also have communication techniques on this site specifically aimed at expressing needs for change. When I look at what your husband did, it seems like he was both trying to enforce a boundary while also expressing a need for change. The D.E.A.R.M.A.N. technique is specifically developed for asserting yourself and expressing needs for change:

After wandering in the FOG for a longer time we have lost the natural instincts and ability to ask for something. Fear is controlling our thinking. Our family-member/partner/friend is super sensitive and tends to over-react. We get ever more careful, stopping to ask for things needed in our or our relationship's interest. Resentment breeds. Resentment is sensed. Communication grinds to a halt. How do we get back to normal? A big step is start asking again for what is needed and this is where D.E.A.R.M.A.N can help us.

... .

D.E.A.R.M.A.N. is used when you have an objective, you want something specific, such as to get more sleep, to have help with the chores, to affect a change or to say NO to a request. You want the other person to come away feeling good about you and not full of resentment. This preserves the relationship. You also want to protect or even enhance your self respect.

... .

The key to acquire the skill for DEARMAN lies NOT in following the letters. It lies in learning the underlying skills and practicing them well enough to then being able to steer a conversation through DEARMAN. When looking at DEARMAN it is clear that we are to express needs for change.

... .

DEARMAN is valuable skill that at its very core boils down to:

We have a right to ask for change - the other side may or may not agree, that is fine too.

When owning up to our requests, staying respectful and focused on what we want we improve our chances for affecting change.

You can read more about it here:

Assert yourself - D.E.A.R.M.A.N.: Describe, Express, Assert, Reinforce, Stay Mindful, Appear Confident, Negotiate

You say your husband was the one that wanted his mother to apologize in the first place. Do you feel he mainly did this to enforce a boundary and let her know that abuse won't be tolerated (no matter if she changes or not)? Or do you feel that him saying this was primarily because he was trying to make his mother change her behavior? These two questions are related of course, main difference is that enforcing boundaries is about changing your own behavior/responses (no matter if the other person decides to change or not), while expressing needs for change is specifically about addressing the other person's behavior in hope of a behavior change from them.

You at this point don't want to reconcile and that is fine too. You do not have to do anything if you don't want to and/or don't feel up to it right now. It is his mother, but not yours. You are entitled to have your own boundaries and they don't necessarily have to be exactly the same as your husband's.

[LepoqueModerne]

Thanks Turkish and Kwamina! There's a lot of really great information here. I will take a look at it all and have a good think about how to best apply it to this situation. I would really like to find the best way of handling these challenges. Although it can often feel like a no-win scenario, and I know I have a lot of hurt and anger to work through, I do still want to try to learn. I'm aiming to use this as an opportunity to grow (some days better than others!), so I appreciate your help. 

From what I understand of my husband's position, he wanted an apology from his mother as part of a boundary that he was setting of having her behave with decency towards us both (no name calling, no screaming, no blame-games etc). He was happy with the results of eventually getting the letter. He asked his mother to behave in a civil manner by apologizing and she eventually complied. I think part of him was still really hoping that she would feel remorse for having hurt us and try and change... .but I also think he is at least intellectually aware at this point that she is likely not going to change and that it's progress to simply have compliance with a request.

I am ok with us not being on the same page as to how much contact we have at the moment. It makes me a little uneasy, but it's tolerable. I do worry about what this would all mean if we were to have kids one day, but I suppose working on boundaries like this is a good first step.

[Turkish]

It's tough to obtain validation from an invalidating person. By asserting boundaries, a pwBPD can learn what they can get away with. Who knows? Even if the emotions behind the letter aren't real, at least she knows that she can push only so far without being shut out. Reducing conflict, even if we are the ones to take the first steps (because no matter how hurt, we are more stable), is a good thing.

[lisazoe]

Hi LepoqueModer

Your situation sounds exactly the same as mine so reading this makes me feel like I'm not alone! (even though I know I'm not when it comes to BPD)

At the moment after months of horrible behaviour towards me and saying horrible nasty things and lies, my partner has reached his point of no contact unless his Mum can apologise for her behaviour and acknowledge the house we have built together and say how nice it is.

I feel that this is his way of keeping no contact for at least a length of time as he knows getting an apology is probably not going to happen and she definitely won't tell him the house is nice.  (She's jealous and thinks I used him to get a brand new house etc etc)

Anyhoo I'm like you with your way of thinking... .this woman will only apologise if she gets desperate she's lost her son for good.  It will not be genuine and I like you don't think I would ever forgive her anyway and will always remain either no contact or very limited contact.

His Mum is a Waif/Queen although in her rages about me I've seen the witch come out too!  Like your MIL you can see she thinks I have "stolen" her son away from her and like your MIL all she wants is to have him back home where she can look after him.  I truly believe she thinks she's the only one that can look after him and just wants him home with her permanently and would be really happy if he had no other life than one with her.

There are other siblings but clearly my partner is the golden child, the parentified child and the one that has catered to her whims until the last couple of years since he met me. 

I guess I'm the one that has made him see that her behaviour isn't normal and that families don't treat each other like that and that parents relinquish their roles of caretaker once their children have become adults and let them live their lives without controlling every move or thought.

Its a  hard road that's for sure especially when I never grew up in this sort of environment.  It makes me very sad for him.

Anyway I guess I haven't really helped much with your question but I have always said to my partner that going no contact is entirely his choice and if he decides to have contact or limited contact then again that is his choice and I will respect that.  After all at the end of the day it is his mother and I will never make him choose as I don't play games like that.

He also understands that I don't want to have any contact with her at the moment if it can be helped (mainly cause I don't trust myself to not handle the situation badly as I'm still pretty raw about what she's said about me and done) and I'm lucky he does understand

[ijustwantpeace]

My mom has tried to break up any relationship that reduces her supply of attention.  She wrote letters to my dad's girlfriend after the divorce to try and break them up.  She was a major contributing factor in breaking up my brother and his wife, then my brother and his girlfriend, and is now working on relationship number 3 in just a few years time.

Trying to understand if a mentally ill person is sincere or not is a future effort, and will only ensure the crazy making continues.  My experience is that they can try to act normal if that that is their only option, but their preferred behavior is drama.

There is no reasoning with them.  It is like trying to reason with a wild bear or bull charging you.  You don't bother to asses the mental state of the animal you just get out of the way.  The only peace or happiness I have had in my life is when I have been long periods of time without talking to mom.

In highschool I told her if I get married she will never see my wife or kids as I don't want that chaos in my family.

BPD is mental illness plain and simple.  Once you understand you are dealing with someone who lives in a fantasy land and does not reason they way you it will get easier.

[LepoqueModerne]

Lisazoe, while I'm so sorry you've had to go through something similar, I agree- it is nice to hear that we are not alone! Everything you said sounds so very familiar! It's sad that your MIL is so caught up in her own fears and insecurities that she can't admit your new home is nice... .(And congratulations on the new home too! Despite what your MIL may say... .or not say, I don't doubt that it's a lovely place!) I can certainly relate to the difficulties of marrying the golden child of a MIL who rages and vilifies you for "stealing" her son away!

I agree that it's somewhat sad and confusing when you don't come from a family that has this kind of mental illness. I know I went through a tough time of not knowing up from down anymore after the first few years of being with my husband. BPD behaviours can be very disorientating, especially when it's not something you're familiar with. My in-laws present such a perfect image on the outside, but behind closed doors it is a very different experience! I was being treated so often like I was the villain and they were perfect that I started to think it WAS all my fault. And with my husband being still quite deeply in the FOG at the time, and my in-laws charming my friends and family with that "perfect people" image they project, it was (and still can be at times) all very isolating. Learning about BPD, my husband standing up for himself and our relationship, and me prioritizing my personal happiness and wellbeing have all made a huge difference.

I'm curious as to how long you've been no contact with MIL? How are you finding it? I think having an in-law with BPD comes with its own variety of challenges! While I can make many of my own choices about my personal boundaries, ultimately my husband is going to be in the driver's seat because they are his parents. That has it's pluses and minuses. It can be an uncomfortable position because information he shares about his life (he is back to a distant, but casual contact) is naturally going to overlap with mine. This worries me because often times in the past tidbits of information about our lives has gotten twisted around as a means of attacking and demeaning me. However, on the positive side, he has somewhat become the barrier between MIL's negative behaviours and myself. It's allowed me to put the focus back on the positive things and people in my life.

Ijustwantpeace- Sounds like you've had a very difficult time dealing with your mom. My MIL is certainly driven by a need for attention and obedience (it would seem that attention/obedience="love" in her mind). But Wow! Writing to your dad's girlfriend is pretty incredible! I know my MIL has played a role in ending her children's relationships before. She will even boast about it- stories where she is the protective and caring mother fighting off the evil relationships. BIL is still living at home and has had several recent attempts to move out of home sabotaged by his mother. (We also experienced this when we tried to move out of their house to an apartment nearby). Even early on in our relationship when I returned to my home country and would be Skyping my husband, his mom would suddenly appear on the screen, not a word to me, but would start whispering mean things about me in my husband's ear. But then back to trying to be my best friend the next week. Very weird. I can certainly understand based on your experience with your mother why you would want to keep your distance if you ever got married.

[lisazoe]

It's been no contact for about 6 weeks now and man we are loving it!

Its like instantly the stress has gone and we are not even worrying about what comes next. 

I know she will attempt contact again at some stage.  I don't think this woman will ever give up as she see's me as the evil person who's manipulating her son and she has to play the martyr who is going to save him!

I don't know what she'll do next as her attempts to vilify me and isolate me from work and friends/family have all failed  (she rung my work to accuse me of things I've never done and rung my ex husband a few times to try and cause problems between us over our daughter and has told multiple lies to the family).  I think her tactic after that was to say such incredible horrible lies about me to her son repeatedly that she thought he would finally believe her and leave me but again that didn't work.

I'm leaving it up to my partner as to what he will do in the future regarding his mother.  It doesn't look good for her (dare I giggle!) as he's having good contact with his siblings and dad (who is accepting of me and clearly hates his wife even though he is still there physically) so for my partner that is enough.  My partner hates lies and negativity  so until his mum can stop that I can see there will be no contact.

I'm guessing the next thing will a "illness" of some sort to guilt trip him up to their home.  That's the whole plan of her is to get him up there so she can then "work" on him so to speak but I don't see that happening either.

Time will tell.  As I said I expect something to happen as I can't just see her accepting the situation and leaving him alone.

I think you and I are lucky (as with others) that we have our partners support and they can see how their parents are treating us and respect our decisions.  If we didn't have that support from them it would be 10 x harder as you know from before your husband saw the light.