How can I win her heart again?

[JapTuner2016]

Thank you so much again for your help, FlourDust!

She is able to somehow overcome the suicidal feelings, it can be overwhelming for her for a while and at the same time it is to get my attention (based on previous experiences), however she has the fear of God factor that's built into herself that perhaps helps stop her from actually committing suicide, as well as not wanting to upset her mother. This is how I've been able to make sense of it about her.

I still haven't responded to her at all today. However, apart from her text, what could I text her tonight or tomorrow while I'm at my accounting job before my McDonalds evening shift? Any suggestions? Like maybe, "Hey, hope you're OK! Do you want to get something to eat after I finish my shift?"? She might not respond to the invitation or would just expect me to turn up at her flat and I go in so she can have a word with me and then after she's vented out her anger on me then maybe we'll end the night or go out for a drive really late at night or something. Uuuuugh, this can be really frustrating. Too bad there isn't a simple universal flow-chart for a non-BPD to follow.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[flourdust]

Thank you so much again for your help, FlourDust!

She is able to somehow overcome the suicidal feelings, it can be overwhelming for her for a while and at the same time it is to get my attention (based on previous experiences), however she has the fear of God factor that's built into herself that perhaps helps stop her from actually committing suicide, as well as not wanting to upset her mother. This is how I've been able to make sense of it about her.

I still haven't responded to her at all today. However, apart from her text, what could I text her tonight or tomorrow while I'm at my accounting job before my McDonalds evening shift? Any suggestions? Like maybe, "Hey, hope you're OK! Do you want to get something to eat after I finish my shift?"? She might not respond to the invitation or would just expect me to turn up at her flat and I go in so she can have a word with me and then after she's vented out her anger on me then maybe we'll end the night or go out for a drive really late at night or something. Uuuuugh, this can be really frustrating. Too bad there isn't a simple universal flow-chart for a non-BPD to follow.

Well, you can try. Keeping it casual is probably a good idea.

[1minuteatatime]

Well, you can try. Keeping it casual is probably a good idea.[/quote]
I completely disagree with trying to engage her when she is this dysregulated.  You MUST ignore in my opinion.  I was married to a BPD ex-wife.  She does this.  To a "T".  She doesn't know that she is BPD.  She will (after being divorced for over a year) still send me thirty or more texts in a row with hateful, spiteful things.  Then, an hour later, text as if nothing happened.  Then send me texts the next day telling me that she is doing something that I love doing(trying to suck me back in).  She lives with her boyfriend.  It's wild.  I promise you, she will switch in an instant if you keep ignoring.  She will be sweet over text. 

It sounds crazy.  Because it is.  You just have to understand that you MUST work on you.  You must be the most alpha mo-fo that you have ever been.  I am truly the alpha male of my 9 siblings.  Alphas don't chose to be alpha, they just are.  But... .  I also believe that you can change many behaviors to be more "Alpha"

It doesn't mean that you aren't needy at times.  That you aren't scared, etc... .

BUT.  An alpha will acknowledge when they are being a needy bi!ch and openly admit it and correct. 

This is coming from someone who stood up to physical abuse from my father at 17 and told him, "no more".  It is kind of a choice, but sometimes you just are the leader.  The emotional leader of your family, etc.

being alpha is more about understanding and controlling emotions through self improvement and being ok with who you are, naturally. 

I never knew that I was alpha until my older brother pointed it out.  Work on you.  She will change her tune if she wants you back.  You will be shocked when it happens.

My ex stalked, too.  Weird stuff.

[cosmonaut]

Oh, boy.  First of all, this forum is for saving a relationship.  Let's keep advice that isn't focused on that for the Leaving board.

Not replying to her calls and texts is only making a bad situation worse, JT.  If she has BPD, then she is a woman with profound abandonment fears.  By ignoring her, you are only further triggering her.   Have you taken any time to read through the tools I mentioned earlier?  These are crucial for you to start using.  You need to validate and address her feelings that she feels betrayed by you, my man.  And she has reason to feel that way.  You have been lying to her.  By confronting her about the possibility of her having BPD you've also opened up a huge can of worms regarding her feelings of overwhelming shame.  That needs to be validated and addressed too.  The first thing you have to start doing if you want to save this relationship is to stop making things worse.  That means you have to start learning and using the tools.  I am not saying this to be harsh with you, but you help you.  You have to start making some changes, man.  :)oing the same things you've been doing isn't working.

What's this about her arm, btw?  Was there some confrontation between you two?

You must be the most alpha mo-fo that you have ever been.  I am truly the alpha male of my 9 siblings.  Alphas don't chose to be alpha, they just are.  But... . I also believe that you can change many behaviors to be more "Alpha"

This is abysmal advice and these "alpha male" concepts have no place here.  That's a bunch of pick-up artist/seduction technique nonsense based on manipulation and exploitation.  Let's keep that junk over at Don Juan.  We are about healthy relationships.  Let's make healthy changes.

[JapTuner2016]

Not replying to her calls and texts is only making a bad situation worse, JT.  If she has BPD, then she is a woman with profound abandonment fears.  By ignoring her, you are only further triggering her.   Have you taken any time to read through the tools I mentioned earlier?  These are crucial for you to start using.  You need to validate and address her feelings that she feels betrayed by you, my man.  And she has reason to feel that way.  You have been lying to her.  By confronting her about the possibility of her having BPD you've also opened up a huge can of worms regarding her feelings of overwhelming shame.  That needs to be validated and addressed too.  The first thing you have to start doing if you want to save this relationship is to stop making things worse.  That means you have to start learning and using the tools.  I am not saying this to be harsh with you, but you help you.  You have to start making some changes, man.  :)oing the same things you've been doing isn't working.

What's this about her arm, btw?  Was there some confrontation between you two?

My apologies, you may need to re-read some parts of our relationship on the first page to clarify some points about her arm and the fact that she already knows she has BPD.

Please can you give me some suggested words to say to her in order to make the validation effective?

[JapTuner2016]

Any suggestions at all?

[1minuteatatime]

Oh, boy.  First of all, this forum is for saving a relationship.  Let's keep advice that isn't focused on that for the Leaving board.

Not replying to her calls and texts is only making a bad situation worse, JT.  If she has BPD, then she is a woman with profound abandonment fears.  By ignoring her, you are only further triggering her.   Have you taken any time to read through the tools I mentioned earlier?  These are crucial for you to start using.  You need to validate and address her feelings that she feels betrayed by you, my man.  And she has reason to feel that way.  You have been lying to her.  By confronting her about the possibility of her having BPD you've also opened up a huge can of worms regarding her feelings of overwhelming shame.  That needs to be validated and addressed too.  The first thing you have to start doing if you want to save this relationship is to stop making things worse.  That means you have to start learning and using the tools.  I am not saying this to be harsh with you, but you help you.  You have to start making some changes, man.  :)oing the same things you've been doing isn't working.

What's this about her arm, btw?  Was there some confrontation between you two?

You must be the most alpha mo-fo that you have ever been.  I am truly the alpha male of my 9 siblings.  Alphas don't chose to be alpha, they just are.  But... . I also believe that you can change many behaviors to be more "Alpha"

This is abysmal advice and these "alpha male" concepts have no place here.  That's a bunch of pick-up artist/seduction technique nonsense based on manipulation and exploitation.  Let's keep that junk over at Don Juan.  We are about healthy relationships.  Let's make healthy changes.

Cosmonaut-  Did you read my entire post?  This has nothing to do with Don Juan, pick up artists or any of that.  It has everything to do with leading.  Especially when she is emotional.  An alpha male is not a pick up artist.  He leads unemotionally.  Unafraid.  I didn't say don't respond to her texts if she is calm.  I dealt with my wife for 15 years of BPD.  I have experience in things that work.  Things that don't.  If you respond to her when she is hyper emotional, it is more likely to not turn out well.  Best to wait a couple of hours.  Yes.  I said that he needs to be the most alpha he has ever been.  Alphas care.  Alphas cry.  Alphas feel.  Relate.  BUT.  Alphas think long term.  Plan.  Advise.  Let go when needed.  Hold on when needed.  Help.  Understand.     Understand that life and love are fleeting.  That we may not be with someone forever.  That there is give and take.  To judge me based on some snippet you pull out without citing the entire piece is very judgmental.  Maybe you should be on a different site, my friend. 

I don't try to fix someone.  Especially my ex-wife.  I told her when I was 25 that she had to fix her relationships with others. Re-read my entire post before you judge me, please.  thanks.

I didn't even know what alpha meant until my brother pointed it out. 

[cosmonaut]

I didn't even know what alpha meant until my brother pointed it out.

That's your problem right there.  If you look up the term, I think you will understand better what I meant.  I'm not going to link to the offensive extrapolations from that, but you can do a Google search if you want to see.  It's a very misogynistic, narcissistic, and antisocial concept of dominance.  What you are describing isn't actually what people mean by alpha.   It's an idea that comes from animal studies and attempts to extrapolate them to human interactions, and that's as dangerous as the application of natural selection to human society.

If you were actually meaning what you say, then I'm sorry for being curt with you, but I was replying the term as it is understood.  It is deeply offensive to many people, and for good reason.

Also, we don't tell others to take a hike here.  That's not what we are about.  Just so you know.

[1minuteatatime]

That's your problem right there.

If you were actually meaning what you say, then I'm sorry for being curt with you, but I was replying the term as it is understood.  It is deeply offensive to many people, and for good reason.

Also, we don't tell others to take a hike here.  That's not what we are about.  Just so you know.[/quote]
I feel like you have a problem with the term, alpha.  Not my problem.  It isn't offensive at all to me.  There needs to be a leader.  I offer a different perspective than you.  It will happen.  This isn't a one size fits all, world. 

I did not tell you to take a hike anymore than you did when you said that my post was meant "for another site".  Just so you know... .  You are welcome to post, here.  I felt that you were judgmental and acting holier than thou. 

Again.  If you read my post, you will see there is value.  I have real life experience being detached and caring at the same time.  It can be done.  I did it for 15 years.  Until I decided to move on.  She cheated with at least 4 men.  We were terrible to each other.  This I know.  Women want a strong man.  Not a pushover. 

If she is frantic and emotional, leave.  Tell her that you will be back in 2 hours to talk(or an hour).  Mine took 2.  Works every time.  Then you can talk like adults. 

Try it.  Might be an eye opening experience.  If you think alpha means total dominance, whatever... .  It has nothing to do with total dominance.  I am the dominant male in my family, but I don't run everything.  I am the leader.  I don't dictate what everyone does.  I do often dictate the emotional temperature and counsel when things get rough. 

Like last night, for instance.  My sister called me 7 times.  Crying.  Dysregulated.  I will take that call.  Every time.  She is probably BPD.  Her boyfriend NPD.  I listened.  She said that she was moving 1000 miles away from her place to be with me.  Asked me to find her an apartment.  I said, "sure".  10 minutes later she is moving in with my mom.  Today, she is fine.(she was also drunk)  I listened.  That was it.  I asked what she could do to make things better.  I didn't side with her.  I didn't side with him.  I have seen them fight.  They both feed into it. 

I called my uncle and told him about it.  Also told him it was likely that she would be ok today.  I know her.  I get her.  She just wants to know that I care.  That's it.  But talking to him last night was the last thing she needed.  The last thing.

I don't like her boyfriend tons but he isn't horrible, either. 

Once again.  I suggest that you consider others' perspectives on things.  Alpha males are not some gorilla with a banana.  I suggest that you research what an alpha male, is.  What it really means. 

My Uncle Marty was also alpha.  Raised my other uncle.(dad died of a heart attack at 50)  Made sure all the little kids could play ball in his little home town.  He was revered.  Cherished.  Adored. 

[AsGoodAsItGets]

Text,  we are both doing the best with what we know.   I was weak by ignoring you during the challenging time for you.   Its important you're understood and supportEd by me because I care about you.  I'm sorry I wasn't able to be the best me when you needed me most.  What can I do right now to support you

[1minuteatatime]

If it has been a day, I would text her as well.  I would not apologize because she is threatening suicide and seems to be using that as a threat. My Ex-wife threatened suicide, too.  I know suicide by the way.  My Father and sister committed suicide(sis had a mental disease, dad very depressed) 

I think you should text her something simple: 

Hi, honey.  I will be available after my shift at xx time if you want to talk.  Then listen.

She likely feels much different than the last time she tried to call or text.