He hung up on me, I blocked him, he left 3 voice mails - Part 1

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

  This man said he could do something for me that he still hasn't been able to deliver on. 

Do you really think he will? 

The vibe I am getting from people on this board is most don't see him delivering.

Here is the thing, let's say in another few years he actually gets a divorce.  Then what? the BPD drama/issues will shift to when he moves or other details.

To be clear, I am seeing you being strung along for several years here.  One excuse after another. 

What if you directed the energy you put into this r/s into being a parent for your daughter?

FF

[formflier]

  This man said he could do something for me that he still hasn't been able to deliver on. 

Do you really think he will? 

The vibe I am getting from people on this board is most don't see him delivering.

Here is the thing, let's say in another few years he actually gets a divorce.  Then what? the BPD drama/issues will shift to when he moves or other details.

To be clear, I am seeing you being strung along for several years here.  One excuse after another. 

What if you directed the energy you put into this r/s into being a parent for your daughter?

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

I feel in a way like he lied to me about how easy it was going to be. If he had simply said, hey I have a really complicated marriage (business, intellectual property rights, assets) so its going to take a long time to divorce this woman but if you are willing to wait it out I want to fully commit to you and your daughter when I am through with this, that would have created a whole different relationship.

There is something about this bit that I really like.  It communicates that you are clear in what it is that you want.

You want:

The person you love to have enough love and respect for you that he is willing to be completely honest with you and withold no part of the truth, so that you have the free will to love him in a most genuine sense.

By demonstrating lack of full transparency, he in effect, disallowed you to have enough information that you needed in formulating your reality and impression of him, and the situation that you were embarking upon.

He permitted you to proceed in a way towards him... .with partial awareness of things... .all while he held info that would have been useful for you to be a person of 'free will' with maximum awareness in choosing him/the relationship.  

For him to deny that he had an advantage over you of having more knowlege, well... .is what he is trying to do regularly... .and quite downright insulting to your intelligence.

That was a lot of 'guesses' on my part... .I realize this.

I am emphasizing this bit of your paragraph because it stood out to me.

When I read it... .I felt: This sounds like her truth... .and all she really wanted.  It is so reasonable, yet seems to get disregarded every step farther and ignored.

Anything here ring true?

Anything helpful?

[unicorn2014]

Form flier, can we please assume from here on out that my daughter, is, has been and will be my first priority? If there is anything in my posting that has led you to believe otherwise can you please point it out to me? I realize that none of us know each other in real life so all we have is our words.

[unicorn2014]

I feel in a way like he lied to me about how easy it was going to be. If he had simply said, hey I have a really complicated marriage (business, intellectual property rights, assets) so its going to take a long time to divorce this woman but if you are willing to wait it out I want to fully commit to you and your daughter when I am through with this, that would have created a whole different relationship.

There is something about this bit that I really like.  It communicates that you are clear in what it is that you want.

You want:

The person you love to have enough love and respect for you that he is willing to be completely honest with you and withold no part of the truth, so that you have the free will to love him in a most genuine sense.

By demonstrating lack of full transparency, he in effect, disallowed you to have enough information that you needed in formulating your reality and impression of him, and the situation that you were embarking upon.

He permitted you to proceed in a way towards him... .with partial awareness of things... .all while he held info that would have been useful for you to be a person of 'free will' with maximum awareness in choosing him/the relationship. 

For him to deny that he had an advantage over you of having more knowlege, well... .is what he is trying to do regularly... .and quite downright insulting to your intelligence.

That was a lot of 'guesses' on my part... .I realize this.

I am emphasizing this bit of your paragraph because it stood out to me.

When I read it... .I felt: This sounds like her truth... .and all she really wanted.  It is so reasonable, yet seems to get disregarded every step farther and ignored.

Anything here ring true?

Anything helpful?

Yes I think that was true, however he did tell me he thought it was going to be easy to divorce his wife as he did it once before and it was very easy. That was before they had assets and property and a business. That divorce was also not because of a woman, that I know of.

He did tell me from the beginning things were complicated but he didn't go into detail as he claimed he was trying to protect me, but that didn't really protect me, it allowed me to engage in what I now consider a fantasy relationship for 3 years before I finally said no more.

My partner still has what I want: he is very intelligent, good with my daughter, insightful, treats me far better and values me far more then my ex husband, good with my family, good with my community. I want everything he has to offer me, after he's divorced his wife.

I think what set off this most recent conflict is what I said earlier, I said something that sounded to him like I was saying facetime did not provide security for the relationship. What I was trying to say was that Facetime was not a substitute for a real life relationship and I would rather him spend his time making a real life relationship possible.

As I also said I think I can prevent a lot of trouble by simply ignoring texts of his that I find provocative. That's where we get in the most trouble, and I notice I get in the same kind of trouble with my dad and my ex, however when I block my dad and my ex they don't ramp up the opposition the same way my partner does. (I did have a very problematic interaction with my ex this weekend which I am preparing to write about on the co-parenting board.)

I've had to review my pictures from the last 4 years as I'm working on my probate case and its making me look at my relationship from my partner, and when I look at it, I feel angry. I like everything my partner provided for and gave me however it was all premature. We should not have had that kind of relationship while he was still married and I just took him at his word that the divorce was moving along.

I saw how happy I was in the beginning of the relationship and then there was the first suicide attempt. I remember exactly where I was when that happened and how it changed me.

There was so much hope, joy, happiness, excitement at the beginning of this relationship when I believed everything he told me.

There's probably enough substance in what I am saying here to make a separate post as this has nothing to do with him hanging up on me.

[formflier]

Form flier, can we please assume from here on out that my daughter, is, has been and will be my first priority? If there is anything in my posting that has led you to believe otherwise can you please point it out to me? I realize that none of us know each other in real life so all we have is our words.

I'm not suggesting she is not your first priority, that was nowhere in my post.

The question I asked, and was not answered, is what if energy, time, effort was taken from one area of your life, the r/s where you are waiting on a divorce, and put towards your daughter.

I'm not saying end the other r/s, but take a bunch of energy and time out of it, and put towards daughter.

What would that look like.  Many times you mention issues you are having with your daughter.

Perhaps, a move like this could help.

FF

[unicorn2014]

Form flier, can we please assume from here on out that my daughter, is, has been and will be my first priority? If there is anything in my posting that has led you to believe otherwise can you please point it out to me? I realize that none of us know each other in real life so all we have is our words.

I'm not suggesting she is not your first priority, that was nowhere in my post.

The question I asked, and was not answered, is what if energy, time, effort was taken from one area of your life, the r/s where you are waiting on a divorce, and put towards your daughter.

I'm not saying end the other r/s, but take a bunch of energy and time out of it, and put towards daughter.

What would that look like.  Many times you mention issues you are having with your daughter.

Perhaps, a move like this could help.

FF

Again, I'm asking you to please point out to me where I'm giving you the impression I'm not spending time, energy, resources on my daughter. Since we do not know each other in this forum, the only thing we have is our words. In my real life I take for granted that people know certain things about me. Here I can't do that.

---

Amended to say I am having a huge co-parenting problem which I have not posted about yet on the co-parenting board but I'm working on how to word it.

[formflier]

Again, I'm asking you to please point out to me where I'm giving you the impression I'm not spending time, energy, resources on my daughter.

And again, I haven't suggested that you are NOT doing that.

I am asking the question if you took time from your LDR and added it to the time/energy/effort that you are already spending on your daughter, if that would be better. 

Less time on minutiae of phone calls/facetime/texts and analyzing all of that and add that time to the time you already spend on your daughter.

Please don't take anything in my comments to suggest you are a bad mom, or are not valuing you daughter.

What I am suggesting is that more time could make you a better mom (we can always be better) and that less time on your LDR (stepping away) is something that has been talked about on here for months as a good thing.

FF

[gotbushels]

Hi unicorn2014

Well done on trying to find a better way to work through your problems. That's difficult.


"Facetime is not enough! Why aren't you watching me sleeping? You're a horrible boyfriend. You are the worst decision in my life. I should go back to my ex."

So we can relate better, I share this.

• My ex and I used to LDR and Facetime every night.



• We slept on Facetime too.



• She was afraid of ghosts and it bandaged her various addictions.

I felt I had the 'full suite' of Facetime fights. Not just the fruit basket   Puns totally intended.







Work on the roots. The roots.

[... .]

It sounds like you're saying at this point the board can not help me with this particular issue of how I react when I'm hung up on by my s/o.

Why many people on this thread focus on roots:

• If you are Deciding, those truly are the more important things.



• They are the early stage causals.  



• To clear the air and as a gentle reminder to ourselves: sundry problems are futile if the root isn't dealt with.    



• In the long-run, failure to touch the roots will multiply every other daily problem.



• They seem to be the most effective effort from the Staying and after-relationship boards.



• A roots-focus is supportive and good-spirited behaviour.



• Root-work is truly vitally important versus handling day-to-day issues.



• Root-work did most of my work for me (and probably many other members) with my ex SO.



• They will help you to move on from ":)eciding or Conflicted". To progress.

Gentle reminder: Root-work is more difficult.


Despite all of that, I'd like to chip in here. On a tiny scale. Help with this branch: the hangup topic.

But before that can happen, there's an important assumption that needs to change.







You seem to have committed to staying.

36 months is truly a long time. It's a long time to be in ":)eciding".

I feel you are conflicted in thought. Your actions show you either:

(1) snagged in ":)eciding", or

(2) are in a wrong action category (you are better served in the 'Staying/Improving' board).

Regardless of the board:

• In substance, you have already committed to staying.



•   I feel that's neither 'good' nor 'bad', but simply a path you have taken.

I have additional personal appraisal questions for Step 2 (2- Take a step backward), PM me if you want those. I don't want to clutter the board.





This portion works on "how I react when I'm hung up on".

To me, how I reacted to him hanging up on me is important.

Perhaps I should back up and say how we got to the point where he hung up on me.

Of the ~7 times you talked about it, ~4 times were to bring attention back to it.

I appreciate you helping me with the day to day issues because that is where I get stuck. I was not happy with my last performance when he hung up on me and that's why I came to the board for help.

These questions seem to be underneath this issue:

• "How do I get unstuck?"



• "What do you think of my behaviour?"



• "Can I do better around being hung up on?"



• "What can I change to get unstuck?"



• "What can I do better next time to avoid getting stuck in the first place?"

Let's focus on that.





Your way of behaving and dealing with things.

We can't change others' behaviour, but one thing we can do is change our own.

First issue.

This is what it is:

• The source: a difficult dialogue.



• The dialogue content: an assertion of "facetime did not provide security for the relationship".



• The content origin: your feelings.



• The judgement on the origin: none. Feelings are neither wrong or right.

Therefore, the problem is within the dialogue.

• Have you tried other methods and techniques of dealing with difficult dialogue?



• Is it working?




• How did your discussion go about "facetime did not provide security for the relationship"?

(Answered below.)

• What led to the first hang up?

(Answer: "I think what set off this most recent conflict is what I said earlier, I said something that sounded to him like I was saying facetime did not provide security for the relationship."

Ok. That is fair.

(Answer: "What I was trying to say was that Facetime was not a substitute for a real life relationship and I would rather him spend his time making a real life relationship possible."

Ok. That is a fair feeling.

• What was the specific tonal exchange of the last few sentences?



• At what exact points did escalation occur?



• In the conversation, how would you separately rate each of your emotional levels on a scale of 1 to 10?



• How did you specifically validate him?



• How did you specifically validate yourself?



• Did you validate before asking him to do something difficult?  

Second issue.

As I also said I think I can prevent a lot of trouble by simply ignoring texts of his that I find provocative. That's where we get in the most trouble, and I notice I get in the same kind of trouble with my dad and my ex, however when I block my dad and my ex they don't ramp up the opposition the same way my partner does. (I did have a very problematic interaction with my ex this weekend which I am preparing to write about on the co-parenting board.)

I feel very strongly against this.

Plain avoidance can be problematic. It can be good. It can be logical.

Yet, judgement-free, do you think it's kind for you to do that if all 3 have been diagnosed?

What else have you tried?

[unicorn2014]

Ty 4 all this and I will answer more in depth online. We used to sleep on ft and I cut it out. I was on the staying board and then when I found out his divorce wasn't filed I moved over to the undecided board. I'm hanging out here until I get a case number or run out of patience. I was a stayer until 9/2015.

Ty again for this in depth reply. I will address the meat of it on my laptop.

[unicorn2014]

I'm still on my phone but I wanted to talk about the first issue. My partner was complaining about the lack of FaceTime , I think, I don't really remember now.

All I can say is I'm dissatisfied with the whole structure of the previous relationship: FaceTime, 2 week stays in my apartment, he does everything with me. I want a relationship that meets in the middle. I've expressed this to him.

[unicorn2014]

On issue 2, what 3 are you referring to as being diagnosed?

if I had thought we tried I tried facetiming him the other night, I suppose to "diagnose the issue" ... .It was a very unsatisfactory experience. My daughter was simultaneously on FaceTime with her new love interest while watching that 70s show and I was trying to cook dinner. My daughter pointed her iPhone at me while I was on FaceTime so I had to engage with her love interest. My "love interest" actually felt sorry for me as he could see I was overstimulated .

Earlier as part of our "fight" he had said he would never request FaceTime again but he hasn't in weeks so that was a mute point.

At any rate the "magic" was gone on our ft call and I said to him next time we should do that when my daughters not home. He was trying to tell me about Brahms and it was impossible to listen.

The other issue is FaceTime is not a substitute for family life and he could never live with us as he makes way too much money for our apartment complex.

The whole of our relationship took place in my apart in my life. I could never afford to go see him.

As I was looking through the pictures of his visits I was getting more and more irritated as I was seeing just how inappropriate our relationship was. I can never allow him to stay with me again and he knows it.

Couple this with antagonism from my ex and my father ... .All the things he promised me have not come to pass.

And yet he still helps me with my daughter and my own mental illness and he provides intellectual companionship and emotional support.

It is a very complicated relationship . There is a reason I haven't dated anyone local: no one, and I literally mean no one, has held my interest.

It's not like I haven't tried.


So that is why I am still holding out for him, hoping he can get it his divorce and move out here before I meet I'm not looking for someone else. As I said before my first priority is resurrecting my career so I can make material progress. I still haven't recovered from my own divorce. I sacrificed my career and my education for my marriage and family and I still haven't recovered.

Which brings us back to the original discussion. FaceTime is a poor substitute for family life, he could never live with us, and I don't know that I'll ever trust him again to live with him.

I haven't even begun to discuss what his betrayal utterly irresponsible handling of his own marriage and "divorce" has done to me.

Here's the clincher: I told him he better get his act together as I mentioned him as my fiancé in my paper for my probate attorney as he had valuable insight on the issues on hand as he knows some of my family. I did tell him I want to talk to his divorce attorney because if my case goes to trial and I go on the witness stand I don't want to commit perjury by saying he's my fiancé. We will see.

[formflier]

Here's the clincher: I told him he better get his act together as I mentioned him as my fiancé in my paper for my probate attorney as he had valuable insight on the issues on hand as he knows some of my family. I did tell him I want to talk to his divorce attorney because if my case goes to trial and I go on the witness stand I don't want to commit perjury by saying he's my fiancé. We will see.

I thought you guys weren't engaged anymore or that you weren't using that term.  Did you get re-engaged?

No need to worry about perjury or talk to his attorney.  Just describe him as a person you are in a relationship with.

For legal purposes I would be very shy about describing yourself as engaged to someone that is already married.  Not sure you can (or should) do that.

FF

[unicorn2014]

His attorney is filing a motion to compel today according to him. Whether or not I feel he is my fiancé that is what he is. I unranked him because of what he did to me but that doesn't change the nature of our relationship. We have never just been in a relationship. Our whole relationship has been defined by his proposition to me.

[formflier]

His attorney is filing a motion to compel today according to him. Whether or not I feel he is my fiancé that is what he is. I unranked him because of what he did to me but that doesn't change the nature of our relationship. We have never just been in a relationship. Our whole relationship has been defined by his proposition to me.

Another benefit of stepping back and taking a bigger view is that it sometimes becomes easier to see "our" role (in this case you) in conflict in a r/s.

I say this because part of being in a r/s, especially a long term one, is defining the nature of the r/s. 

If he believes that you two are engaged, and you are going back and forth on that, can you see how that is confusing and could contribute to conflict. 

Plus, there is a certain "indirectness" to passive aggressive character to a lot of your communication. 

If you are not willing to take away time from your r/s to work more on your daughter, do you think you can take time away from focusing on the divorce (his stuff) and focus on healthy communication (your stuff) for the next few weeks?

Last thought for now:

Unicorn,

I'm rooting for you here.  No intent at all to pick at you or tear you down.  My reaction to your threads and your situation is like me standing on a street and hollering at you as you turn the wrong way, down a one way street.

So, I and many others are hollering, "You are going the wrong way, "

You are sitting in the car going "How do they know where I am going, ?"

Which is a wonderful question.  I don't know where you are going, but I am positive that you will not get there doing the wrong way down a one way street.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

All I can say is I'm dissatisfied with the whole structure of the previous relationship: FaceTime, 2 week stays in my apartment, he does everything with me. I want a relationship that meets in the middle. I've expressed this to him.

unicorn, please think about this, and do it in a perfect, imaginary world, where you have a perfect imaginary partner who doesn't create constant conflict, isn't married to somebody else, and lives nearby, and would be capable of joining you in a relationship that is perfect to you. (I know your current partner falls short all the areas I listed, but you can still imagine him without these issues. Or pick George Clooney to imagine instead... .this is a thought experiment... .whatever works for you)

Now, with this person who is available for your ideal relationship, what does this "meeting in the middle" relationship really look like. Think about how much time you want to spend with him, imagine a the whole picture. What does an ordinary Tuesday night look like. What does a normal week look like? (not a holiday or vacation)

Maybe you can draw upon memories of good times in prior relationships to help you paint a picture.

Really think about what a good, healthy relationship for you looks like.

Write it down. A description, at least a page or two. Try to get it as visceral and real as you can. If you have more of  a writer in you, make it a whole short story.

Then take a look at your partner, and ask yourself what parts of this he already does, what parts of this he isn't doing, but is capable of, and what parts he probably will never be able to do. Don't ask him, ask yourself. (He seems very good at telling you he will become exactly what you want him to be when you ask, and not so good at actually doing it thus far.)

[unicorn2014]

Formflier , if we can move forward with the assumption that redirecting me to my daughter is not what it is needed here I think we might get better results. Could you consider this please?

-

He knows how I feel about the engagement prior to divorce.

-

I did print out bushels post, I think the key to peace is in analyzing my reactions to his (my partners) statements. I think a further key to success is to keep taking a step backward when I feel irritated.

---

Grey kitty also brings up some good points. There are some points about my former marriage that are relevant here. That was my only other relationship and that took place in community. I've never experienced the kind of relationship I want nor can I see it . I will wrote about this later.

[formflier]

Formflier , if we can move forward with the assumption that redirecting me to my daughter is not what it is needed here I think we might get better results. Could you consider this please?

Sure thing.

Remove all references to your daughter from my earlier posts.  Instead, insert rehabilitating yourself for the job market.

I believe in a prior post you said you had to drop a claim or some sort of activity for rehabilitation because another part of your life was taking up more time (see, on my best behavior, didn't reference things you asked me not to reference!   )

You only have so many hours per day and a limited amount of energy to expend.  A serious effort to re-prioritize the amount of time spent on different activities in your life will reap huge benefits for you.

It is likely that less time spent on your LDR romantic r/s will result a much healthier, less reactive romantic r/s.  That will allow you to focus more on the person that you are attracted to without all the hangups, texts, facetimes and other things getting in the way.

In reading your response to GK above, it would seem that you are saying you have not ever had a healthy r/s.   With that in mind, I can understand how the pathway to get to one looks fuzzy to you, perhaps looks like scary choices that you do NOT want to take.  

Please consider that it is possible that the road you are on now does NOT lead to the r/s that you want.  Can you consider this please?

If we use that assumption (on wrong road), how does that affect your choices?

FF

[unicorn2014]

Hi form flier, I've failed to communicate.

My inability to commit to a 18 month rehab is because my daughter went into crisis and I have no one else to help me with her. Spending more time on her is not the solution. Spending less time on him is not the solution. The problem is quite literally man power and he does help with the social-emotional aspects of parenting.

As soon as I stabilize my daughter I will be talking to my employment specialist again. I told her (employment specialist) I needed to deal with my daughter first and she closed my case for me as those things are time sensitive. I like you have a permanent disability so need rehabilitation to go back to work.

I think the key lies in not getting stuck in taking a step backward.

And you're right , I've never had a healthy relationship, not with my husband, and my father is quite challenging. I don't know that meeting in the middle with a teen is an option. A Tuesday night would be me home with my daughter.

I think the trick is to notice when I'm irritated and to back away from the relationship , and it might not be the relationship that's irritating me. If I'm angry, if I'm tired, that's not a time I going to want to connect to my partner. He always wants to connect to me. He rarely takes space these days.

[Sunfl0wer]

I think the trick is to notice when I'm irritated and to back away from the relationship , and it might not be the relationship that's irritating me. If I'm angry, if I'm tired, that's not a time I going to want to connect to my partner. He always wants to connect to me. He rarely takes space these days.

I think this is wise.

I think when you do decide to take a step back, that it would be most helpful for you to direct your immediate focus, not on your D, or anyone else... .

On Yourself.

I think practicing noticing you are uncomfortable => stepping back and immediately applying an act of self care that makes you feel good... .is how you can reprogram your behavior.

If you do this consistently for 3wks straight, it should become your new normal.  You just have to get through 3 full wks of consistent self care response.  If you cannot, you need to repeat and repeat until you get the 3 wks consistent... .it could take months... .or just 3 wks.

Simply doing NC for a small period does not seem, in itself, to be an act of self care that feels good to you.  NC without proper self care/self soothing... .seems to be ineffective... .which is why I think the piece that you are missing is the self care.

Eventually, with practice, taking a step back for self care will feel nurturing and enjoyable. (Not anxiety provoking)

I think you need this skill for the success of any relationship... .BPD or no BPD.  Especially ones with PD persons.

[lbjnltx]

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