Intentionally hurting us or not?

[Penelope35]

C. Stein how will I ever get closure if I continue to receive these messages?   :'(

The hope, and I stress hope, is once he has had his say he will stop contacting you.  The important part is that you do not respond in a way that gives him any hope of reconciliation.  You say what you need to in a respectful but non-engaging way.

That said, you must do what you feel is right for you.  If a short term LC can work and help you move forward that is OK.  If strict NC is what you need then that is OK too, however you should probably take steps to avoid getting/seeing anything from your ex at all if NC is your choice.

Either way you know you can always come here for support.   

For sure I know what I NEED is no contact and I do try hard to not contact him my self but from the moment he contacts me and becomes available again I start having this huge urge again to demand answers and explanations from him. Sometimes I can control my self but some others I break down... .and of course It never gets me anywhere... .I know the only way to let it go is to block him... .

 

[Caley]

[quote\]

For sure I know what I NEED is no contact and I do try hard to not contact him my self but from the moment he contacts me and becomes available again I start having this huge urge again to demand answers and explanations from him. Sometimes I can control my self but some others I break down... .and of course It never gets me anywhere... .I know the only way to let it go is to block him... .

 

He knows this about you Pen ... it is part of why he chose you and kept you attracted to him. He knows that you 'need' to know. He knows that you have a 'need' to understand. And, because these things are powerful motivational factors ... he knows, that you'll not move on until you are satisfied. If he told you the complete truth ... you'd walk away without wanting to look back. He knows this ... so don't expect closure from him.

When you show him that you're now going to walk away from closure ... There'll be some respite. But, first, you 'need' to be willing to be indifferent to and unconcerned with satisfying 'your need to know'.

Is he that 'special'?

Nope ... but there's someone waiting in the wings (once you've recovered) ... that is that special.

However, the longer it takes you ... by trying to discover answers that your current chap has no vested interest in giving you ... you'll be stuck. And, the person you should be with will be waiting.

[Penelope35]

C. Stein how will I ever get closure if I continue to receive these messages?

Closure is something you have to give yourself. I did this in three parts: by making sense of what I had been through (with my therapist); by acknowledging that I loved someone who had mental health issues that precluded the possibility of a healthy r/s; and by recognizing that a continued r/s on any level (romantic or friendship) would cause me a great deal of pain. Working through all this took time. But it was time well spent; if I had put the "power" of closure in her hands, I would still be waiting.

I've noticed a pattern in your posts - you give your power away, even though you know better.



"... .the fact that he is now sending me messages while I asked him not to... ."

"... .how will I ever get closure if I continue to receive these messages? ... ."

You know that you can block his messages - but you don't. You are looking for words from him that will "magically" soothe the pain you're feeling - or will give you enough reason to summon up the anger that will blunt your pain (e.g. if he is in a "regular" marriage).

I understand how difficult this is. For a while, I blocked my ex on my phone - I grew exhausted wondering if every text was from her. I unfriended her on FB - and I can still vividly remember hovering over the "unfriend" button (and how intensely painful the decision was). I ended up blocking her on FB soon after because we have mutual FB friends - and I would be triggered by seeing her responses to other people. Each step took monumental effort. Each step broke my heart. But they were all steps towards self-care and self-love.

Your unwillingness to block communication with him is akin to you torturing yourself. He's not doing anything to you at this point; you're doing this to yourself.

I read a quote a few months ago that really resonated with me:

"I should have loved myself with the love I gave to you."

Your healing process will begin when you decide that self-love includes protecting yourself from those who would batter your tender heart.

Jhkbuzz you put words to everything I am feeling and this always brings me so much comfort. Thank you so much for that. This "You know that you can block his messages - but you don't. You are looking for words from him that will "magically" soothe the pain you're feeling - or will give you enough reason to summon up the anger that will blunt your pain (e.g. if he is in a "regular" marriage)." is I think exactly what is going on... .

I have put a lot of value on knowing exactly what his marital situation is and I feel like this is something I have to know before I can start processing and greiving for the loss of this relationship. I feel like I have to know what I am crying about. Is he a married man who only wanted to play? A married man in a regular relationship who fell in love with me, knew all along that there could be no future with us but still went on and kept making huge statements to me as if I was the only woman on earth for him? A married man in a dead marriage? My mind is mostly occupied with making up my own scenarios about the situation because I never got the whole truth for him. I feel like he owes me the truth cause he has hurt me so bad! And since he doesn't let go and always comes back to tell me how much he is struggling because he misses me and loves me so much, I keep hoping that I can get the truth from him to ease my mind at least about that. Another part of me I think wants him to be honest at least now, at least once, as a proof that he does love me. It won't change my realisation that I HAVE to detach from him and stay away (I can't say the words I WANT him out of my life yet) but this would be a proof to me that this huge love that we shared was not all in my head.

Our interaction through texts these days went mostly like this:

Him: I love you and miss you so much... .you don't understand... .I will never forgive myself for everything I have done to you but please understand that it wasn't intentional. The reasons we are not together is what I told you... .you just keep ignoring those... .

(The reasons he is referring to is that I am a little taller than him which was a big deal for him. He felt less than me for some reason. Ηe once told me that he felt like those couples where the woman is a twenty year old and the man is a grandpa)

Me: You have to understand that I cannot keep discussing about 5cm when to this day you haven't given me the truth about what was going on. Don't talk to me about love when you know I am struggling with not knowing the whole truth and you allow this to happen

Him: The truth is what I told you. Please believe that I love you... .I miss you SO MUCH!

Me: I came to find out that you are married on my own. I then confronted you about that and you confused me more by changing the scenario over and over.

Him: I will explain everything in detail but this cannot be done over the phone. There will come a time when I will tell you everything... .     

(we were in a long distant r/s and here he is implying that he will come to explain. Of course this is never going to happen. I found out about his marriage in December. He told me about a million times that he is coming but never did. It was only me that visited him. The last time we broke up he even gave me a date and time)

Me: It's been almost three months. About when would you say would be a good time for you to help me stop struggling with that on top of everything else?

Him: You really know almost everything. Believe me when I say you never shared me and that there were no bad intentions in any of these. Please stay focused on the true reasons we are not together (refers to the height difference). Do you believe I still love you and I am having a really hard time missing you?

Me: I don't see love in any of your actions. Ι am also struggling you know and I don't even know what hurts me the most because I don't know if I was completely fooled in this situation or not. And I keep asking you for something that should have been your priority considering how much you say you love me. I don't know what to do any more... .

Him: I know you love me too... .more than anyone has loved me before... .and I am so sorry for eveything I have done. I can't even explain how much I've MISSED YOU! I will never get over you... .


... .and the cycle goes on and on... .The minute I show a glimpse of emotion he graps on that and starts talking about eternal love... .

I know that the one with the biggest problem in this situation is me who is still hoping that I can get some clarity from him... .I know it's on me to stop torturing my self... .   :'(

[Penelope35]

[quote\]

For sure I know what I NEED is no contact and I do try hard to not contact him my self but from the moment he contacts me and becomes available again I start having this huge urge again to demand answers and explanations from him. Sometimes I can control my self but some others I break down... .and of course It never gets me anywhere... .I know the only way to let it go is to block him... .

 

He knows this about you Pen ... it is part of why he chose you and kept you attracted to him. He knows that you 'need' to know. He knows that you have a 'need' to understand. And, because these things are powerful motivational factors ... he knows, that you'll not move on until you are satisfied. If he told you the complete truth ... you'd walk away without wanting to look back. He knows this ... so don't expect closure from him.

When you show him that you're now going to walk away from closure ... There'll be some respite. But, first, you 'need' to be willing to be indifferent to and unconcerned with satisfying 'your need to know'.

Is he that 'special'?

Nope ... but there's someone waiting in the wings (once you've recovered) ... that is that special.

However, the longer it takes you ... by trying to discover answers that your current chap has no vested interest in giving you ... you'll be stuck. And, the person you should be with will be waiting.

I have such a hard time letting go of my need to know... .and at the same time I know I have placed my chance to heal from all of this on somebody who is not capable of helping me to do so... .or anything really... .

Thank you for trying to help me envision a better future Caley... .at the moment I feel like I am always going to be alone

[C.Stein]

C. Stein how will I ever get closure if I continue to receive these messages?   :'(

The hope, and I stress hope, is once he has had his say he will stop contacting you.  The important part is that you do not respond in a way that gives him any hope of reconciliation.  You say what you need to in a respectful but non-engaging way.

That said, you must do what you feel is right for you.  If a short term LC can work and help you move forward that is OK.  If strict NC is what you need then that is OK too, however you should probably take steps to avoid getting/seeing anything from your ex at all if NC is your choice.

Either way you know you can always come here for support.   

For sure I know what I NEED is no contact and I do try hard to not contact him my self but from the moment he contacts me and becomes available again I start having this huge urge again to demand answers and explanations from him. Sometimes I can control my self but some others I break down... .and of course It never gets me anywhere... .I know the only way to let it go is to block him... .

 

With respect to the bold, what do you hope to gain from this?  Can you trust any answers/explanations that come from him?  Will whatever answers/explanations he supplies help you detach and heal?   These are all questions you might want to ask yourself before contacting/responding to him.

[Daniell85]

5 cm?

Please focus on the real reason you are not together. 5 cm.

My mother was 2 inches taller than my father.

She was also 2 years older than him.

I would be doubtful of the 5 cm. He was dishonest about his marriage. So he picks the one thing about you that can never ever be changed unless you lopped off your head or feet and says that is why I can't be with you.

Do you see what he did there? It's your fault. Not his. He can't help it. Never mind he misled you about his actual availability for a relationship. Never mind the lies, the deceit. The disrespect for your life.

When you redirect yourself from this manufactured tragedy of being a bit taller than him, and look at what he has done, and how he is manipulating you... .what do you think and feel about all of it?

[C.Stein]

I know that the one with the biggest problem in this situation is me who is still hoping that I can get some clarity from him... .I know it's on me to stop torturing my self... .  :'(

It is not wrong to want this Penelope.  I want this as well.  There are many things in my relationship which I do not have the truth about, nor am I convinced she could ever be completely truthful with me.  To be honest I don't know if I want the whole truth because it will deeply hurt me.  So I have had to construct my own most rational, logical and likely truth from what happened in order to get some type of "closure".  

I will say though that I think you might be hoping for something more than clarity here.

[WoundedBibi]

Unless you're under 16 it's not as if you have grown taller than him during the relationship. You were always 5 cm taller. It didn't stop him pursuing you in the first place or trying to hold on to you now. So that is utter bull's excrement.

He is married and wants to have his cake and eat it too.

His truth is not your truth. He will never say what you THINK you need to hear. Like someone else wrote earlier: closure is something you give yourself. He will not give it to you.

PUT DOWN THE DING DONG

[Penelope35]

With respect to the bold, what do you hope to gain from this?  Can you trust any answers/explanations that come from him?  Will whatever answers/explanations he supplies help you detach and heal?   These are all questions you might want to ask yourself before contacting/responding to him.

Another crazy reality is this. The only scenario I would believe from him is if he told me that he is in a regular marriage with his wife and living a normal life with his family, fell in love with me but realised that he doesn't want to leave his family. That is the only scenario I would believe, which would be the most hurtful one because the way he talked to me was as if we were meant for each other. Anything else I wouldn't believe. When I said that to him he said he would find ways to proove to me the kind of relationship he has with her because he understands that I won't trust anything he said from there on... .

It's a loose loose situation... . 

[C.Stein]

With respect to the bold, what do you hope to gain from this?  Can you trust any answers/explanations that come from him?  Will whatever answers/explanations he supplies help you detach and heal?   These are all questions you might want to ask yourself before contacting/responding to him.

Another crazy reality is this. The only scenario I would believe from him is if he told me that he is in a regular marriage with his wife and living a normal life with his family, fell in love with me but realised that he doesn't want to leave his family. That is the only scenario I would believe, which would be the most hurtful one because the way he talked to me was as if we were meant for each other. Anything else I wouldn't believe. When I said that to him he said he would find ways to proove to me the kind of relationship he has with her because he understands that I won't trust anything he said from there on... .

It's a loose loose situation... . 

See bold.  If this is the case you need nothing from him as you have already constructed a version that you can accept.

[Penelope35]

5 cm?

Please focus on the real reason you are not together. 5 cm.

My mother was 2 inches taller than my father.

She was also 2 years older than him.

I would be doubtful of the 5 cm. He was dishonest about his marriage. So he picks the one thing about you that can never ever be changed unless you lopped off your head or feet and says that is why I can't be with you.

Do you see what he did there? It's your fault. Not his. He can't help it. Never mind he misled you about his actual availability for a relationship. Never mind the lies, the deceit. The disrespect for your life.

When you redirect yourself from this manufactured tragedy of being a bit taller than him, and look at what he has done, and how he is manipulating you... .what do you think and feel about all of it?

The thing is, at the same time how much he would want us to be together seems honest. He just called and was crying about how much he would want us to be together but he is afraid it won't work because he will always feel less than me and he is convinced that at some point I will leave him because of that. He also talks about distance and how everthing is difficult. It is obvious that he would have to leave "something" to take the risk to be with me (risking is how I believe he feels about it). He won't admit that this something is a regular marriage though... .

[Penelope35]

I will say though that I think you might be hoping for something more than clarity here.

I know that clarity would help me in knowing what exactly I am grieving about. Other than that I do know that another part is my diffculty to let go... .But I do understand that I can't be with him. I think I have realised that.

[C.Stein]

But I do understand that I can't be with him. I think I have realised that.

This is good.  It is your first step in truly detaching here.   

[Penelope35]

Unless you're under 16 it's not as if you have grown taller than him during the relationship. You were always 5 cm taller. It didn't stop him pursuing you in the first place or trying to hold on to you now. So that is utter bull's excrement.

He is married and wants to have his cake and eat it too.

His truth is not your truth. He will never say what you THINK you need to hear. Like someone else wrote earlier: closure is something you give yourself. He will not give it to you.

PUT DOWN THE DING DONG

I am looking for closure from a ding dong... .

[jhkbuzz]

With respect to the bold, what do you hope to gain from this?  Can you trust any answers/explanations that come from him?  Will whatever answers/explanations he supplies help you detach and heal?   These are all questions you might want to ask yourself before contacting/responding to him.

Another crazy reality is this. The only scenario I would believe from him is if he told me that he is in a regular marriage with his wife and living a normal life with his family, fell in love with me but realised that he doesn't want to leave his family. That is the only scenario I would believe, which would be the most hurtful one because the way he talked to me was as if we were meant for each other. Anything else I wouldn't believe. When I said that to him he said he would find ways to prove to me the kind of relationship he has with her because he understands that I won't trust anything he said from there on... .

It's a loose loose situation... . 

See bold.  If this is the case you need nothing from him as you have already constructed a version that you can accept.

This ^^^

You said this:

I have put a lot of value on knowing exactly what his marital situation is and I feel like this is something I have to know before I can start processing and grieving for the loss of this relationship. I feel like I have to know what I am crying about.

To be blunt: you know what you are crying about - you were duped into a r/s with a married man. Are you willing to spend the next several years (decades?) looking for more detailed answers from him? This is the path you're on, this is the future you're creating for yourself. If you have "put a lot of value on knowing", then you can change your mind about this "need to know."

In truth, your "need to know" is another example of how you're giving your power away. You appear to have told yourself that it's impossible for you to move forward and heal until you "know" the answers to your questions. As a result, you are putting your entire future (or lack thereof) into his (disordered) hands, since he is the only one who can answer your questions.

I talked about closure:

Closure is something you have to give yourself. I did this in three parts: by making sense of what I had been through (with my therapist); by acknowledging that I loved someone who had mental health issues that precluded the possibility of a healthy r/s; and by recognizing that a continued r/s on any level (romantic or friendship) would cause me a great deal of pain. Working through all this took time. But it was time well spent; if I had put the "power" of closure in her hands, I would still be waiting.

But what I was really talking about was writing my own story of the traumatic experience I had been through. I didn't ask my ex to write it or make sense of it for me. Even if she was willing to she couldn't - she is too disordered to make sense of it all herself. It is my life, I get to write my own story - and it goes like this:



I fell in love with a woman who had significant mental health issues. We loved one another but the disorder made a healthy, reciprocal adult r/s impossible. I would have tried to work through almost anything with her, but when she began chronically lying and cheating she crossed a boundary that I was not willing to live with, no matter how much I loved her.

I helped her raise her daughter, an experience I am grateful for. I remained in the r/s as things deteriorated in large part to raise that child. My only other option would have been to abandoned her to living out her teenage years with an unstable mother. I am proud that I had the integrity to stick it out. I am also proud that I maintained my integrity in a myriad of other ways as we were breaking up. Although tempted, I did not allow my resentment and pain to cause me to act in ways that are inconsistent with my moral values. I made mistakes in the r/s, but I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Today I am working though some traumatic childhood experiences with the help of a therapist. I believe some of these wounds predisposed me to a r/s with someone with mental health issues. I'm committed to healing myself so that I can be a better person overall, and perhaps, land in a healthier r/s next time around.

No one can write your story for you - you need to write it for yourself. It's time to start. Take your power back.

[Penelope35]

This is good.  It is your first step in truly detaching here.   

I need to take a step further though cause I feel like I am stuck on this first step because of my obsession to want to know the truth

[C.Stein]

Unless you're under 16 it's not as if you have grown taller than him during the relationship. You were always 5 cm taller. It didn't stop him pursuing you in the first place or trying to hold on to you now. So that is utter bull's excrement.

He is married and wants to have his cake and eat it too.

His truth is not your truth. He will never say what you THINK you need to hear. Like someone else wrote earlier: closure is something you give yourself. He will not give it to you.

PUT DOWN THE DING DONG

I am looking for closure from a ding dong... .

Go pick up some Ho-Hos (cause they are way better than ding dongs) and construct your own closure.  

I need to take a step further though cause I feel like I am stuck on this first step because of my obsession to want to know the truth

You already know you aren't going to get it, so there is no need to wait for it.

[sebastian.l]

after reading here the thread, my mind tells me we cannot expect truthfulness from somebody that is scared of seeing the truth they have caused. This would mean, they had to accept their disorder. Of course, anybody, who perceives these traits in the own personality will have a life long struggle to accept being 'ill'. Truthful would mean, accept the not normal behavior and seek therapy for oneself. hence, it is easier for them to tell lies, motivated by the 'good cause' to not hurt us further and move on to the next with the goal to be a better truthful partner.

The only thing I hear over and over from my exBPD girl, is 'hope you are fine and not mad/sad anymore because you deserve it'. Whereas I am really not sure what to do with this. I just can say, getting these kind of messages even hurts me but I cannot explain why.

[Frustratedbloke]

Sebastien. Mine said almost the same words to me the first time round, not this time because I called her on a behaviour, told her she was weak, insecure and deeply messed up. The last time I didn't and she kept contacting me almost to repeat that phrase: 'I hope you find someone really good because you deserve it.'

I think they know they are messed up, but you're right they've buried it and they have no intention of digging it back up.

[sebastian.l]

'I hope you find someone really good because you deserve it.'

it seems just a rephrased closure and affirmation to themselves that means in other words: 'well, I am broken. I messed up. But, yeah, that's just how I am.' Then they move on.

this sentence inherits to me the messages:

- I will move on and let you down now

- I am broken, that's me. Deal with it, if you can't another one will for sure

- I am not able/willing to put energy in changing me or save us

- I am not a good person

- I don't have these feelings for you that you had for me

- I don't respect you because I treated you bad and you forgave me

- You are weak and too much the nice guy for me, go find a nice girl

[Frustratedbloke]

Yeah I definitely got the vibe from her that she thought I was weak and easily steamrolled. When she met me, I was.

I am glad she came back in a way because this time I was still kind, but I didn't tolerate her rubbish. When she behaved badly I sent her home, when she tried to take too much I told her to stop being stupid, when she finally stepped over the line I said that's my boundary, sort your attitude out or we are done.

When she didn't fix it to my liking I said get out of my life, you're not worth it to me.

I was good to her, but I stood firm this time around. So I think I got more out of her coming back than she did. I told her I look down on her behaviour, something I couldn't have done before. At that point she disappeared like a wisp of smoke.

[Penelope35]

You said this:

I have put a lot of value on knowing exactly what his marital situation is and I feel like this is something I have to know before I can start processing and grieving for the loss of this relationship. I feel like I have to know what I am crying about.

To be blunt: you know what you are crying about - you were duped into a r/s with a married man. Are you willing to spend the next several years (decades?) looking for more detailed answers from him? This is the path you're on, this is the future you're creating for yourself. If you have "put a lot of value on knowing", then you can change your mind about this "need to know."

In truth, your "need to know" is another example of how you're giving your power away. You appear to have told yourself that it's impossible for you to move forward and heal until you "know" the answers to your questions. As a result, you are putting your entire future (or lack thereof) into his (disordered) hands, since he is the only one who can answer your questions.

I talked about closure:

Closure is something you have to give yourself. I did this in three parts: by making sense of what I had been through (with my therapist); by acknowledging that I loved someone who had mental health issues that precluded the possibility of a healthy r/s; and by recognizing that a continued r/s on any level (romantic or friendship) would cause me a great deal of pain. Working through all this took time. But it was time well spent; if I had put the "power" of closure in her hands, I would still be waiting.

But what I was really talking about was writing my own story of the traumatic experience I had been through. I didn't ask my ex to write it or make sense of it for me. Even if she was willing to she couldn't - she is too disordered to make sense of it all herself. It is my life, I get to write my own story - and it goes like this:



I fell in love with a woman who had significant mental health issues. We loved one another but the disorder made a healthy, reciprocal adult r/s impossible. I would have tried to work through almost anything with her, but when she began chronically lying and cheating she crossed a boundary that I was not willing to live with, no matter how much I loved her.

I helped her raise her daughter, an experience I am grateful for. I remained in the r/s as things deteriorated in large part to raise that child. My only other option would have been to abandoned her to living out her teenage years with an unstable mother. I am proud that I had the integrity to stick it out. I am also proud that I maintained my integrity in a myriad of other ways as we were breaking up. Although tempted, I did not allow my resentment and pain to cause me to act in ways that are inconsistent with my moral values. I made mistakes in the r/s, but I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Today I am working though some traumatic childhood experiences with the help of a therapist. I believe some of these wounds predisposed me to a r/s with someone with mental health issues. I'm committed to healing myself so that I can be a better person overall, and perhaps, land in a healthier r/s next time around.

No one can write your story for you - you need to write it for yourself. It's time to start. Take your power back.

I know I need to see things for what they are some time soon. I come to realize for once more that responding to him is actually very self destructive. Now I have to find the strength AGAIN to end the interaction... .It's hard but I know I have to focus all my energy in finding closure on my own. I really want these terrible feelings to end. I know in the end I will grow as a person from all of these as I have already learned a lot about my self but I wish I didn't have to learn it this way.

[Penelope35]

Go pick up some Ho-Hos (cause they are way better than ding dongs) and construct your own closure.  

I need to take a step further though cause I feel like I am stuck on this first step because of my obsession to want to know the truth

You already know you aren't going to get it, so there is no need to wait for it.

[JerryRG]

Hello everyone.

Just want to say that once I got into Alanon and then AA, I starting growing and healing and I would encourage my exBPDgf to also get help, she's a drug addict, she just wouldn't try, I believe my growth and healing allowed me to see the hopelessness of this situation and that is when I gave her the ultimatum to either get help in DBT or AA or Alanon or NA or just leave. She just wanted to do what she wanted and leave me to take care of our son. I changed my number and went NC. She found a guy and that was the end.

I know she's miserable, I know she loves and depends on me. She posted on fb that the guy she loved didn't really exist. Then she knew we were destroying each other.

The reality is she's destroying herself and she didn't want to change, maybe she can't. I do love her and I did all I could. She could have chosen freedom, health and happiness but she wants misery, dispair and hopelessness.

Sorry baby, I'm never going back to that hell.

[stimpy]

Yeah I definitely got the vibe from her that she thought I was weak and easily steamrolled. When she met me, I was.

I am glad she came back in a way because this time I was still kind, but I didn't tolerate her rubbish. When she behaved badly I sent her home, when she tried to take too much I told her to stop being stupid, when she finally stepped over the line I said that's my boundary, sort your attitude out or we are done.

When she didn't fix it to my liking I said get out of my life, you're not worth it to me.

I was good to her, but I stood firm this time around. So I think I got more out of her coming back than she did. I told her I look down on her behaviour, something I couldn't have done before. At that point she disappeared like a wisp of smoke.

Yeah Frustratedbloke, my experience too. I called her out on some of her crappy behaviour (stalking and silent treatment) and I haven't seen her since the New Year. It's like she couldn't handle someone actually telling her the truth. I was much less forgiving this time 

[Grey Kitty]

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