Fed up with attracting crazies...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi everyone, I've been on this board for several months after my relationship with exBPD.  It was my first encounter and I was emotionally distaught for several months. I had never experienced anything as emotionally destructive. I went no contact 6 months ago, started to read about BPD and work on myself, gaining much insight.

Before my involvement with exBPD I had two marriages, one 25 years, the other 8 years, both with creative, intelligent PDs - when I came on these boards I began to see a pattern. Although they were PDs, neither or them were BPD; which I was totally unprepared for and which was the the most damaging relationship I've ever had, including those in a dysfunctional FOO as well.

I was divorced over 4 years ago and thought - after being married to a narcissist - that I was prepared. Not so.

Two and a half years ago, two years after my divorce - I'd stayed clear of relationships, while recovering- I met a man who love bombed me. He was my usual type - creative, intelligent, charismatic and with broad experience of life. I fell for it, hook line and sinker. It only lasted a few weeks, I found out he was Bi-Polar, ADHD and possibly other co-morbidities as well. Chastened, I retired.

Three months later I met another bloke, he seemed quite different. A Creative and the other things I find attractive

but apparently gentle, sweet, confiding, open and thought I was lovely. In retrospect I guess he was mirroring me  but at the time he felt like my twin. Six months of loveliness, following by the usual pattern of gradual devaluation, gaslighting, triangulation... .you know how it spirals down. That ended last summer, followed by five months of agonising push/pull which was increasingly damaging for me; he was giving me mixed messages and I lived in hope. Eventually I broached it head on, realising he was trying for FWB. I then ended it and went no contact. This was the most damaging relationship of my life.

I'm probably one of the oldest contributors here. I'm 65 and perhaps some of you are astonished that these things happen at my age. But I'm considered a very attractive intelligent woman,I've had an interesting life, am empathic and witty - that's possibly when men find me attractive. I'm not a cougar, I don't go for younger men. And I'd like to honestly stress that none of the foregoing is self-aggrandisment, men are attracted to me, but the wrong type of men. And I attract them.

A couple of months after I went no contact I met a man who I liked but  I made it clear I wanted nothing more than friendship. Three months later he told me he was obsessed with me, wanted a full-on  relationship, or nothing. He could not maintain a friendship only. An ultimatum: all or nothing. I handled it with grace, did not emasculate him but was also boundaried, saying that we are all responsible for our own happiness and I would be sad to lose such an enjoyable friendship but he must do what was best for his wellbeing. So that ended.

Yesterday I met a man for the first time for lunch. We had much in common, much to talk and laugh about. A really enjoyable time. We were together for several hours, going for a walk afterwards. When he left he told me he'd found a treasure, that I am a very special woman and that he could fall in love with me and for me please to stick with him. Three or four texts followed and a couple of emails. Telling me he'd dreamt of me.

Horror! What I am describing are not adult reactions of men in their sixties. After my relationship with exBPD I felt shaky and distrustful of myself, after these last two encounters I'm beginning to feel that I shouldn't be let out alone!

Men are attracted to me, but why do I attract these sort of men? I used to be attracted and drawn in by them, succumbing and flattered by love bombing. The BPD experience burned me and I am now vigilant, so my pattern is 25 years, 8 years, 18 months, three months and now just one day.  Only one of these men was BPD, my two husbands were PD, I couldn't make any assumption regarding the others. Too little information, just warning signs.

It's a positive that the warning signs are now there but, it's no fun attracting men who seem so off the wall. I get no pleasure or self-esteem or self-aggrandisment from this, just the seeds of paranoia, that I'm never going to meet a normal bloke.

Any comments?

[troisette]

Hi everyone, I've been on this board for several months after my relationship with exBPD.  It was my first encounter and I was emotionally distaught for several months. I had never experienced anything as emotionally destructive. I went no contact 6 months ago, started to read about BPD and work on myself, gaining much insight.

Before my involvement with exBPD I had two marriages, one 25 years, the other 8 years, both with creative, intelligent PDs - when I came on these boards I began to see a pattern. Although they were PDs, neither or them were BPD; which I was totally unprepared for and which was the the most damaging relationship I've ever had, including those in a dysfunctional FOO as well.

I was divorced over 4 years ago and thought - after being married to a narcissist - that I was prepared. Not so.

Two and a half years ago, two years after my divorce - I'd stayed clear of relationships, while recovering- I met a man who love bombed me. He was my usual type - creative, intelligent, charismatic and with broad experience of life. I fell for it, hook line and sinker. It only lasted a few weeks, I found out he was Bi-Polar, ADHD and possibly other co-morbidities as well. Chastened, I retired.

Three months later I met another bloke, he seemed quite different. A Creative and the other things I find attractive

but apparently gentle, sweet, confiding, open and thought I was lovely. In retrospect I guess he was mirroring me  but at the time he felt like my twin. Six months of loveliness, following by the usual pattern of gradual devaluation, gaslighting, triangulation... .you know how it spirals down. That ended last summer, followed by five months of agonising push/pull which was increasingly damaging for me; he was giving me mixed messages and I lived in hope. Eventually I broached it head on, realising he was trying for FWB. I then ended it and went no contact. This was the most damaging relationship of my life.

I'm probably one of the oldest contributors here. I'm 65 and perhaps some of you are astonished that these things happen at my age. But I'm considered a very attractive intelligent woman,I've had an interesting life, am empathic and witty - that's possibly when men find me attractive. I'm not a cougar, I don't go for younger men. And I'd like to honestly stress that none of the foregoing is self-aggrandisment, men are attracted to me, but the wrong type of men. And I attract them.

A couple of months after I went no contact I met a man who I liked but  I made it clear I wanted nothing more than friendship. Three months later he told me he was obsessed with me, wanted a full-on  relationship, or nothing. He could not maintain a friendship only. An ultimatum: all or nothing. I handled it with grace, did not emasculate him but was also boundaried, saying that we are all responsible for our own happiness and I would be sad to lose such an enjoyable friendship but he must do what was best for his wellbeing. So that ended.

Yesterday I met a man for the first time for lunch. We had much in common, much to talk and laugh about. A really enjoyable time. We were together for several hours, going for a walk afterwards. When he left he told me he'd found a treasure, that I am a very special woman and that he could fall in love with me and for me please to stick with him. Three or four texts followed and a couple of emails. Telling me he'd dreamt of me.

Horror! What I am describing are not adult reactions of men in their sixties. After my relationship with exBPD I felt shaky and distrustful of myself, after these last two encounters I'm beginning to feel that I shouldn't be let out alone!

Men are attracted to me, but why do I attract these sort of men? I used to be attracted and drawn in by them, succumbing and flattered by love bombing. The BPD experience burned me and I am now vigilant, so my pattern is 25 years, 8 years, 18 months, three months and now just one day.  Only one of these men was BPD, my two husbands were PD, I couldn't make any assumption regarding the others. Too little information, just warning signs.

It's a positive that the warning signs are now there but, it's no fun attracting men who seem so off the wall. I get no pleasure or self-esteem or self-aggrandisment from this, just the seeds of paranoia, that I'm never going to meet a normal bloke.

Any comments?

[Frustratedbloke]

Look at it like a maths problem, I had this chat a couple of days ago and it's true of a few things, including online dating. It applies to age too.

Basically by this stage of life, I'm knocking on 40, people are either attached, or there's probably a reason. Those are just statistics.

Now add to that fact that somewhere between 2-15% of the population are actually Cluster B, nobody seems to know for sure.

I'm not a good statistician, but take the high side. If 15% are Cluster B, a disproportionate amount of the singles are Cluster B and X amount of normal people are out of the game because they're in happy, fulfilled relationships, then you are far more likely to encounter one on the later life dating scene. All you can do is filter them effectively.

I thought online dating was great for a while, I'm in a new city, don't know people, it made sense to try it. I met one crazy after another, the one I talk about most was my first POF date... .Some of the others? I filtered them out quick.

[troisette]

Perhaps I ought to get a cat or retire to a nunnery FB?  The statistical chances,  at my age, of finding a normal  bloke, seem dismally slim.  

[Frustratedbloke]

I feel the same way to be honest, every girl I have met lately has been off the charts mad or a much more devious user type.

Someone told me this recently as well, which made some sense, vibrationally, which sounds hippy, we're going to attract this type because the last one almost left tyre tracks on us.

I'm not absolutely taking myself out the game, but I'm not looking for a while. Focus on yourself, feel totally complete on your own again, then you'll attract the same calibre of person.

I was broken, and I attracted a broken person. That can work for us, as well as against.

[troisette]

I've been thinking about it all day. Realising that a few hours of love bombing, champagne, roses, lots of compliments have caused high anxiety for me. Not pleasure. Together with anger that my relationship with exBPD has caused these reactions.

Trying to turn it on its head and think that maybe this vigilance is good, part of the gift a BPD can give us.

Whatever, over thinking, crying and feeling a total mess.   

[C.Stein]

troisette,

Let's approach this from a different perspective.  Instead of asking yourself why the crazies are attracted to you why not ask why you are attracted to the crazies?  The former you can't do anything about, the latter however you can.   

[troisette]

Thanks CStein. Thing is, nowadays I'm not attracted to them. Whereas in the past I would have enjoyed the flattery and love bombing - it would have fed my ego. Not any more, I just see this as a  .

I do enjoy the company of intelligent creative men, but not this sort of attention.

My issue is more about anxiety since this last encounter. Am I always going to be a draw for them? I'm well boundaried nowadays, but I'm sick of being love bombed. It doesn't work with me but since exBPD, my two encounters have had similarities.

I've changed a lot since last December when I was thrilled to receive a bunch of flowers from someone when I was ill. Have more self-worth and understanding, but this sort of idealisation is distressing.

I don't ever remember being love bombed in this way before exBPD, I've read the stuff about "fleas" - wondering if it applies to me.

I have always drawn a lot of male attention, but I don't want this sort of attention. As I said I have got better at spotting it, but the effect this time has caused a lot of worry for me.

[WoundedBibi]

Oh troisette... .

I can imagine you feel horrible about this. Like you will never escape the PDs. I would be sad and anxious too...

But at least you tried. That is brave!

The thought alone of going on a date makes me anxious.

I discussed it with my T on the phone this week that when I can get to her office again it is something I need to work on, attracting/being attracted to the wrong men. I can see a pattern, the older I get the crazier the guys. The first had their issues, but the last 2 were BPD/NPD and aggressive and vindictive. I literally told her "if I don't end this pattern the next one will probably kill me".

For now I don't want any men in my life except my male friends.

[troisette]

Thanks Bibi.   I think FrustratedBloke made some good points. 

[WoundedBibi]

We can always make a pact: if we haven't healed enough in x amount of time to get away from the guys that are a sandwich short for a picnic, we start a NON nunnery 

[HurtinNW]

I'm also considered a very attractive woman, and I do think that was catnip for my BPD/NPD ex, whose narcissistic traits led him to wanting a beautiful partner who made him look good. He took a lot of pride out of dating me. So I do think men who are narcissistic are going to want to date women who they think make them look good. It's part of their narcissistic supply.

At the same time, I think my vulnerability was sending off the wrong signals, too. And initial attraction doesn't mean anything unless we follow up on it, so asking why we are engaging with them is a good idea.

Plus, I think it is true that once you get to a certain age (I am 48) then the number of healthy available partners is naturally much smaller.

For the first time in my life I am embracing being single. No dating until I feel healed and have a stronger sense of myself.

[GreenEyedMonster]

We can always make a pact: if we haven't healed enough in x amount of time to get away from the guys that are a sandwich short for a picnic, we start a NON nunnery 

This sounds appealing at times.

I have dated one more crazy person since my breakup with my exBPD.  I am now kind of sort of seeing someone else, and I am so hesitant to get involved with him that I suggested we should just be friends.  I think both of us know there is more to it under the surface but so far he has been very respectful of my boundaries and when he sees me he is just nice to me and asks for a hug.  If he keeps this up, maybe I will trust him!  It is so hard, though, to know how long to hold out or what to look for.  My new romantic interest is in his 40s and has never been married, and one wonders why that is, what is wrong with him.  He had a relationship that lasted more than 5 years, though, and so far seems to lack the volatility of my exBPD.  Even if we just end up as friends, he seems like a decent person.  I hope, even if hesitantly . . .

[troisette]

Yes, a nons-nunnery Bibi and GEM - with cats to stroke and cuddle  

It is a worry, I didn't realise how much it was going to affect me. Yes, you are right Hurtin, there is the "armcandy" factor and good looks can be disadvantageous because some blokes don't see beyond that. In my case, some of my male friends tell me that before getting to know me they thought I was scary because of the brains + looks thing. I'm not sure if this would attract a narcissist. But now I'm in danger of generalising because although they have a PD and its indicators, they are still individuals. Their own personality plus the PD. Gawd it's confusing.

Back to the main point... .thanks for your comments GEM, yes when a bloke hasn't been married it does raise questions, I think the length of previous relationships can be good marker, although not always reliable - maybe the reasons for the break up are important. (Now I'm sounding like Sherlock Holmes... .) My exBPD was married for twenty years and had another relationship of 15 years, both unhappy but I interpreted the length as a good sign. I was married for 25 years and then 8 years... .but I love domestic life and stuck with it. Mrs Hausfrau at heart.

If your guy is respecting your boundaries GEM, that's a good sign. If he continues to respect your hesitancy, to be a good friend for now, I'd interpret that as real interest in you as a person, not an object. Because I think part of the PD thing can be objectifying us, seeing us as beneficial add-ons for them.

I think FB's comments are sound and it's a bleak vista ahead for me. There are benefits to living alone and I'm not sure I ever want to cohabit again, just a nice, kind, bloke who's good company and not a crazy. The love bombing is an obvious red flag indicator; over the weekend I've been thinking about FBs statistics and the worry of the not-so-obvious indicators. Seems like a minefield, hard work and possibly dangerous.

My default is optimism but I'm now feeling flat and pessimistic, maybe realistic?

[GreenEyedMonster]

I like the cat idea 

Yes, the boundary respect is a big thing to me.  After encountering several disordered people, it definitely sends me running when guys push for too much, too fast.  Inappropriate sharing and intimacy are up there, too.  Like the guy who talked about his DUI and all the gory details of that on the first date.  He was also very jealous about me early on, when we had only gone out once, but would tell me about the other girls he was asking out!  It was very strange.  I have learned that being able to say no to someone is just as important as saying yes.  If a man doesn't respect me when I say no -- and not just to sex -- that's a huge  .

I think that length of relationship can somehow hint at the degree of severity of the problem, if nothing else.  My exBPD was prone to "whirlwind romances," where he'd become attached to people very quickly but the relationship would die some horrible death about 4-6 months in, depending on how much contact he had with his SO.  There was no way he was capable of sustaining a relationship of much more than that, unless the woman was a total doormat.  That is partly why his LDR was the longest.  Some of the mods here have said that many of our exes are probably subclinical, and I often wonder if my ex was.  His symptoms were so obvious and so severe that he couldn't hide his strange tendencies for more than a couple weeks into the relationship, if that.  His paranoia was one of the big giveaways, with constant talk about all the things his ex was doing or going to do to him.  In hindsight I wonder why I put up with such an unhealthy person.  He claimed to have been in three relationships, but the first two lasted only 2-3 weeks.  What middle-aged man counts dating a girl for two weeks as a relationship?  Answer:  a very disordered one.  In a way I think the severity of his disorder saved me a lot of trauma because the relationship was doomed so quickly.  I didn't have many months or years to plan a future with him before the traits really came to the surface, and truth be told, I never did feel emotionally safe with him.

It is horrifying nonetheless to see how many men in my age group are out there like this.  I feel like I attract them because I'm independent and introverted, and this comes across as having virtually no needs.  This makes me an ideal "parent" figure for someone who needs a childhood re-do.  It's like they sense that they can almost ignore my needs and focus entirely on their own.

[Frustratedbloke]

You know we're stepping into Pick Up Artist stuff here, so I'll leave it short. But I've learned that when a girl says 'let's be friends', the only strong move you can make is to walk away. It doesn't matter what you think of them as a person, or if you'd like their company, if you want something romantic you have to say thanks, I'm not interested in that, call me if you change your mind.

Somebody that doesn't do that, that goes along with it with the clear intention of wanting more, that actually strikes me as more of an honesty red flag. It's a fraudulent friendship and in essence he has already shown you his insecurity, which is the basis of everything we're dealing with here, by accepting less than he wanted with a view to, say, manipulating the situation later.

Just a man's perspective. I can't know everything you know from here, obviously, but I would have walked at that point and that would have been showing my boundaries. Looks like we both have them now

[troisette]

Interesting to hear the male perspective FB. I've got male friends who used to be lovers, (not PDs) and male friends who wanted to be lovers, I liked them but wanted no more. These are friends over 45 - 30 years. And we are still mates, the friendships have moved on from where they started.

But I can see you point in today's world, it's a different scene, faster moving and more direct. Especially when you get to a certain age, internet dating and we know what we want.

[Frustratedbloke]

Don't get me wrong I am friends with exes and have girls as friend where we've never gone there too. But to go on a date and to be told I like you, but I want to be just friends. That's like, here's your silver medal, but you can still listen to my stories and take me out for lunch.

The only way you can really bring that one back from the brink is to walk away with class and dignity. If the woman knows you can't and won't be friendzoned, she has to make a choice.

If a guy wilfully walks into the friendzone and thinks he will turn it round, it's a fraudulent friendship from the start and I'd question the whole dynamic.

But if you have another way of doing it and it works for you, that's totally cool of course

[troisette]

Well, I always go Dutch so there is no tacit obligation, anything that can be presumed to be taking advantage.

If I were a man I'd be wary of women I met on a dating site who expected a free lunch. And I'm also wary of blokes who insist on paying the bill ... .and the stuff I've previously described. But maybe I'm ultra-vigilant... .

[Frustratedbloke]

Yes honestly my ex was a total user. The worst part was her sister openly asking me to buy her things like I was her father.

Now I look back... . I should have run. We won't fall for this again. I was seeing a girl recently, I made sure she paid her way. It didn't last long, but it was always equal. My ex was a taker from the start.