Repair or break away?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello, I am a new member here and I need help. .  I have been with my hub for 25 years.  I used to go to alanon before we had our 2 sons.  Then I put my trust wholly over to God - we have been very religious.  I only found out about BPD within the last few years when I finally overcame fears and got internet.  Last year I had terrible problems with a narcissistic brother and found out about narc abuse.  Then my mother died.  It has somehow changed things for me and I have been putting up strong resistance to the twisted comments but i get verbally abused about 2 - 4 x a month, lots of no speaking bouts and occasional threats of or actual physical abuse/violence (about 2x pa).

I am learning a lot about inner childhood wounds etc.  I am reading 'co-dependent no more'.  I was an abused child with a violent narc father.  I feel so tired.  I have suffered years of chronic fatigue but am a lot better at the moment.

I hear a lot about needing to flee from narcissistic abusers asap but am unsure if this also applies to borderline abusers.  I have always felt so sorry for my hub.  He is like a child.  If I push him out I believe he would be wretched. We are so intertwined.  We became very isolated for many years cutting away from all family, churches and friends.  There are very few left.  I have recently re bonded with my older sister (who is in a similar boat) and have great support from my oldest son.  But I am terrified of splitting up - afraid that I will be too cruel to him, that I will emotionally die and afraid of losing my home.  Yet the abuse continues - in between his more angelic behaviour.  So confused.  any ideas?

[Shipwreck]

Hello, I am a new member here and I need help. .  I have been with my hub for 25 years.  I used to go to alanon before we had our 2 sons.  Then I put my trust wholly over to God - we have been very religious.  I only found out about BPD within the last few years when I finally overcame fears and got internet.  Last year I had terrible problems with a narcissistic brother and found out about narc abuse.  Then my mother died.  It has somehow changed things for me and I have been putting up strong resistance to the twisted comments but i get verbally abused about 2 - 4 x a month, lots of no speaking bouts and occasional threats of or actual physical abuse/violence (about 2x pa).

I am learning a lot about inner childhood wounds etc.  I am reading 'co-dependent no more'.  I was an abused child with a violent narc father.  I feel so tired.  I have suffered years of chronic fatigue but am a lot better at the moment.

I hear a lot about needing to flee from narcissistic abusers asap but am unsure if this also applies to borderline abusers.  I have always felt so sorry for my hub.  He is like a child.  If I push him out I believe he would be wretched. We are so intertwined.  We became very isolated for many years cutting away from all family, churches and friends.  There are very few left.  I have recently re bonded with my older sister (who is in a similar boat) and have great support from my oldest son.  But I am terrified of splitting up - afraid that I will be too cruel to him, that I will emotionally die and afraid of losing my home.  Yet the abuse continues - in between his more angelic behaviour.  So confused.  any ideas?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[TheCodependent1]

Dear Shipwreck,

You're on a sinking ship, it seems you think so too from your username. Someone needs to throw you a life preserver and the only person holding one is you. Save yourself.

[JQ]

Hello Shipwreck  

I want to be one of the first to welcome you to the group and give you a big cyber hug     I would encourage you to read the references at the top of the page & to the right of the page to increase your knowledge of the full aspects of BPD. -------------------------->> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

You're off to a good start with reading "Codependent no more" and would suggest other books like "Stop Walking on eggshells", "The Human Magnet Syndrome" just to name a couple. I would encourage you to seek out a good therapist too to help you sort out your thoughts, fears, emotions & feelings. And of course come here as often as you need to ... .but more importantly as often as you WANT too!     Most of the NONs here aka "Codependents" have been through or are currently going through what you have ... .some for decades just like you. You won't find anyone here that will judge you on your thoughts, emotions or feelings when you express them.  It's a very tough road that you've been on ... .and we want you to continue your journey of self discovery & education on BPD. We can't tell you what to do or what to say ... .but we can tell you what has and hasn't worked for us.  When  you stumble on  your journey ... .and you will stumble ... .someone where will be here to hold out a hand & help you up, we'll dust you off, straighten you up ... .THEN it's up to YOU to decide what to do next. YOU can continue down your path your on ... .YOU can take the path to the right and see where that leads you ... .or YOU can sit down and do nothing ... .the choice has been and will ALWAYS be YOURS to make.

We're anonymous here so feel free to tell us whatever you are comfortable with sharing.  BPD is a very serious Mental illness that isn't to be taking lightly. You only told us a little but what you did, your significant other (s/o) has some symptoms of BPD and possibly your brother as well. As a NON we're naturally attracted to someone who has BPD ... .the book "the Human Magnet Syndrome" explains this.  You explain some physical abuse among other types of abuse.  Most NONs do suffer abuse from their BPD one way or another. We all know that physical abuse can be slapping or hitting ... .but physical abuse can also be the BPD waking you up constantly in the night by "Bumping" you, loud music, TV, etc.  If you don't get good REM sleep this is physical abuse. REM sleep is needed to repair the mind and body to deal with the next day. Emotional abuse can be what you described as, the separation from family & friends. Afraid to tell their family of your relationship ... .or their friends of your relationship ... .this is certainly emotional abuse. Mental abuse can be any number of things including what you describe. Abuse is Abuse regardless of what it is or how its done ... .and Abuse regardless of the kind it is ... .is NEVER ok!   You'll need to learn about boundaries and how to maintain them ... .your therapist can help with that.

To answer your question ... .Borderlines can be diagnosed with co-modalities ... .BPD & NPD as an example.  You explain yourself as the perfect codependent ... .The "Perfectionist" always trying to achieve the perfect anything including a relationship ... .if I'm perfect then they'll love me. AS the Knight in Amor you are protecting him by saying, "I have always felt so sorry for my hub.  He is like a child.  If I push him out I believe he would be wretched."  And the Sheriff always wanting to save the day ... .these are all classic codependent behaviors ... .but you probably already know this and are taking steps to correct it.

With BPD, they are & will be forever the 3 year old toddler ... .never making sense, putting you in a "time out aka not talking to you". BPD see things as all white or black, no shades of grey. There are studies to show that there is genetic defects within the frontal cortex & other parts of the brain in addition to environmental conditions that BPD comes from.  It is a VERY serious mental illness that they will have for the rest of their life ... .some types of treatment can help "manage" some of the behavior to a certain degree ... .but they'll never be cured. You probably already have learned or are learning the language of BPD ... .gas lighting, deregulation, projection, triangulation, painted black, painted white, Alienation, engulfment, abandonment and the list goes on.

It's a process ... .but your not alone! WE more than someone who hasn't dated / married or in a r/s with a BPD would ever understand the things that have been and are going through K3.

Everyone is here to help you navigate through your journey    

JQ

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Shipwreck, Welcome!  You have come to a great place.  Many of us (including me) have been down this path before you, as JQ notes, so you are not alone, believe me.  The starting place, in my view, is with yourself, which is what TheCodependent1 alludes to.  It's about shifting the focus from the pwBPD back to yourself.  Instead of care-taking another, it's about caring for oneself.  Usually there is a lot of pretending in a BPD r/s, which is exhausting in my experience.  Returning the focus to caring for oneself is a journey towards authenticity.  You are not responsible for the wellbeing of another adult, though I'm sure it feels like you are right now.  Finding your path out of the dark wood is your task, and no one can do it for you.  We can help, though, so feel free to call on us for our thoughts.  We can point you in the right direction.

LuckyJim

[JQ]

Shipwreck,

LuckyJim makes some great points ... .YOU need to take care of YOU!  If you don't who will?  You can't change your BPD as LuckyJim points out ... .it's just physically impossible to make happen.  You can work on you and learn all that you can about why you are a codependent.  You need to make sure you're eating right, sleeping and getting out and exercising ... .get a mile walk in to burn off some of the stress & anxiety. Enjoy that time ... .enjoy the sun on your face, the sounds of nature ... .kids playing in the park ... .or some music of your choosing ... .but the important thing is to get out and move your body.

I just want to give you some additional information on what BPD is defined as ... .you might already have this information ... .but for some who don't and are reading this post ... .

There are numerous studies, universities, professors, Ph.d's, MDs, therapist that have studied this question for decades. BPD is a VERY serious Cluster B mental illness with numerous studies to indicate that is in deed a genetic, physical defects within the brain coupled with environmental conditions that are responsible for BPD. BPD can also be co-diagnosed with other mental / behavioral illnesses such as NPD for example.  There are MD, Ph.d's that are trying to categorize BPD in the Cluster A mental illness category that includes paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder.

The following is in part a study from Harvard Medical School which indicates an underlying abnormality of the brain structure or function resulting in a significant disability.

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a severe mental illness seen in approximately 20% of inpatient and outpatient clinical samples and between 1.2% and 5.9% of the general population and can co-occur with other disorders.

BPD is believed to emerge from an interaction between genes and environment. The major twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in diagnostic concordance. This concordance rate is similar to that found in bipolar disorder and stronger than rates for depression or anxiety. Functional MRI studies of BPD patients show abnormalities in the amygdala (an almond-sized and shaped brain structure linked with a person's mental and emotional state) and the prefrontal cortex (a part of the brain associated with planning, reasoning, solving problems and regulating thoughts, feelings and behaviors). A major BPD twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in BPD.

A core feature of BPD is self-destructive behavior, including bingeing and purging, substance abuse, risky sexual behavior, reckless driving and spending, and self-injury. In the short term, these behaviors attempt to regulate out-of-control emotions, but the interpersonal consequences further impair troubled relationships.

Recent data link BPD to both structural and physiological brain abnormalities. Volumetric studies using MRI consistently show decreased volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala of persons with BPD. Functional MRI studies using standardized tests have demonstrated differences in brain areas and functioning between people with BPD and controls. Using evoked emotional response, MRI differentiated BPD from controls with differences appearing in the amygdala, anterior cingulate and prefrontal cortex. This research suggests that both the affective instability and the interpersonal hypersensitivity seen in BPD have their roots in the sensitivity of the brain's amygdala to negative emotions.  In the face of this increased amygdalae activation, persons with BPD demonstrate impaired self-regulatory function in the prefrontal cortex.

The findings from psychopharmacologic and other biologic treatment data, coupled with associated brain functioning findings, indicate that BPD is a biologically based disorder.  Based on this analysis, including BPD in the Massachusetts Parity Law as a "biologically-based disorder" is well founded.


There are several types of treatments that have several levels of "success" ... .success measured as limited MANAGEMENT of behavior from a chronic mental illness.  This study among others would indicate there is no full recovery or "cure" to indicate that they get better.  Example, my exBPDgf (age north of 50) has seen Ph.d's, clinical physiologist & therapist off & on for more then 25 years. She continues to have severe behavioral conditions that include impulse control issues, risky sexual behavior, alcohol abuse, reckless spending, self-injury, personal relationship trouble with multiple boyfriends, 2 ex-husbands and other BPD behavior that we've all read about.  She's been on several different meds in addition to Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) focuses on the concept of mindfulness, or paying attention to the present emotion. Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) can help people with BPD recognize and change both their beliefs and the ways they act that reflect inaccurate or negative opinions of themselves and others. Mentalization-based therapy (MBT) is a talk therapy that helps people identify and understand what others might be thinking and feeling.  Transference-focused therapy (TFP) is designed to help patients understand their emotions and interpersonal problems through the relationship between the patient and therapist in addition to mood stabilizers, anti-represents, anti-anxiety meds.

BPD is NOT like cancer that with surgery, chemo, radiation they "MIGHT" get better & after 5 years of no additional indications of cancer they are deemed "cured".  Evidence indicates BPD is at the gene level of the human body and physical abnormalities of the brain.  In the NON or codependent world we are in part a perfectionist ... .we want to "fix" everything to make everything better.  It was un-educated arrogant behavior on MY part to believe that I could "FIX" my exBPDgf with understanding, love, caring and wanting to help her ... .WHEN 25 plus years of professional psychiatric assistance & meds couldn't and still can't manage the mental illness.

As codependents we can & do get better at adjusting our behavior & learning what to look for when people are trying to take advantage of our good nature. We get better and identifying behavioral warnings of BPD and can steer clear of those r/s.  And with a little help from a good therapist helping us learn why we became codependent in the first place,  we can then live & share a life with someone who isn't mentally ill.

This is the first day to taking back YOUR life Shipwreck!   As LuckyJim points out ... .you have to take care of YOURSELF and that starts today!  Positive thoughts cause positive results!   

JQ

[Shipwreck]

Thank you all so much for your replies and for the welcome.  I am in a state of guilt and fear at the moment because I have asked my husband to leave.  It is not the first time he has been asked, but this time it is more.  I have been steadily distancing myself since Xmas.  After a recent physical push across the room in a rage I have claimed my bedroom for myself (I need a refuge & place for myself).  He is now sleeping in the lounge and I have moved all his clothes down there.  I am seeing a DV counsellor tomorrow to try and get some help.

He seems to be accepting the idea of moving out but is making no moves to do so.  first he was really angry, then has been really upset, crying, begging, promising and painting the most nightmarish scenarios of utter loneliness and destitution for himself.  He warns me of all my worst fears for myself.  He reminds me of all the soul mate wonderful things and times we have (and do still) share. I love him.  I pity him.  I care for him.  I know I am enmeshed with him and dependant on him.  He has a lively and warm personality.  He has been the most loving person to me, the only one who has ever loved me.  He comforts me in my own loneliness.  I feel I will die without him.  Yet in his rages he abuses me.

He continues never to seek help and he has had drug and alcohol abuse problems.  We have terrible memories of awful times.  Almost every holiday and every outing spoilt or ruined by his anger or rage.  Both my sons have been affected.  They are both very nervous introverts.  One missed most of secondary school he was too scared to go in and the other  is unable to get a job or even sign on for benefits due to fearfulness.  He has not contributed to our income for a whole year now.  My husband vilifies both of them for these problems calling them lazy and telling me I am too weak - that I should 'make' them go to school/work.  But I believe (if quietly) they have emotional problems (cptsd?)  I do not allow my hub to take control any more because he goes right over the top, gets really nasty and abusive, when really they need help and encouragement.  this has been the cause of most of our arguments. He wants to be in charge but he cannot be trusted with innocents.

My current dilemma is whether to continue with him, knowing I/we will certainly be abused again sooner or later, or whether to make this break now (esp now I have the support of my eldest son who seems to see the abuse/befriend cycle very clearly).  If I leave it, my son may not help me another time and I fear being left on my own with my B in my old age.  I am 58.  i want things to change and have been praying and trusting, but they never have.  i always lived in hope, but my hope is now diminishing.  the break up would cause great hardship in lots of ways for all of us.

[JQ]

Hello Shipwreck,

As we've said ... .you're not alone here. I understand that you have feelings of guilt for trying to move on with your life without you BPD s/o ... .breaking up & moving on is tough regardless of the circumstances ... .there are always complications and there is never a good time to start the process.  BUT you have to keep in mind that you only get one go around in life ... .YOU have to LIVE for YOU! You are responsible for your life and actions and no one else ... .I know as a codependent aka NON this is a tough lesson to learn ... .some learn this lesson quicker ... .some a little slower ... .but in the end if you truly want to live YOUR life ... .you have to learn this.

You said ... ."My current dilemma is whether to continue with him, knowing I/we will certainly be abused again sooner or later" 

My question to you ... .is why is this even a dilemma?  If you know without a doubt that he will once again rage and lash out is only a matter of time ... .but you don't know if you want to stay? What are you telling us ... .more importantly what are you telling YOURSELF?  That you know you & the boys are going to be abused again and again in some manner and you are ok with this?  Are you telling us that you know this and you're willing to accept things as they are and will be in the future?

You said ... ."i want things to change and have been praying and trusting, but they never have."   

How's that been working out for you so far?  Again my question to you ... .Is why are you doubting yourself after all these years? Why is this even a question?  From what you're saying to us and again more importantly yourself ... .is that nothing has happened to change his mental, physical, emotional abuse that he inflicts on you and your two sons.  I understand as a NON / codependent that you are an eternal optimistic  ... .but after a certain period of time you have to be a realist to the conditions and circumstances that you're living in and YOU have to take an active role in YOUR life and making the hard choices and moving forward in YOUR life!  YOU have to choose the path that you want to journey down ... .

It's ok to love your BPD ... .it's ok to miss them ... .it's ok to wish that they would get better knowing that they never will ... .they were a significant part of your life.  But in the end of it all ... .you have to protect YOU ... .you have to live YOUR life ... .you have to make yourself happy ... .because the very simple truth of it all Shipwreck ... .is that no one else is responsible for your personal happiness. 

Things are going to get better ... .they always get better if YOU take an active role in  your own personal mental & physical well being ... .it won't be easy ... .but you have us here to give you a cyber hug   and someone to talk to who knows where you've been ... .knows what you've felt ... .knows what you're going through and the doubt, the emotions, the feelings ... .that you're going through ... .

It sounds as if you've come to a fork in the road on your journey ... .so the question ... .is what are you going to do?  Continue down the path your on?  Take the path to the right and see where that goes on your next portion of your journey? Or are you going to sit back down where you're at and do nothing?  The choice has been ... .and always will be YOURS Shipwreck ... .

wishing you peace you deserve and the strength to get through this rough storm on your journey ... . 

JQ

[Shipwreck]

Thanks for your quick response.  Since I have recently been doing some of my own 'inner child' work, I have shared this with him; he has responded by having a sudden revelation that his anger is connected to child abuse (sexual) that he suffered as a child.  He has been in tears and making like he 'might' be looking for help/counselling (since being asked to leave).  this would obviously give me a lot of hope and appears to be a breakthrough - but I don't know if he is just copying me and giving me things he thinks I want to hear.  My son says not to trust him, that he is just pretending and that it would be better if he went away and got healed away from here and only came back once it was all done.  That seems like good advice.  It is as if I totally forget all the bad stuff when he is being nice to me and I can hardly remember even his daily unhelpful bad attitude.

My son is still not talking to him (after a showdown, BP challenged him to a fight 2 weeks ago).  He is saying bad things about my son, that he has ano agenda - ie that he's trying to get rid of him so he can take over and not have him push him to get a job etc.  I want to protect my son/s.  I am worried that they may get into a fight with him one day.

My son and I have called our current attempt toward freedom 'operation citadel'.  We are thinking that we want to make our house like a very safe fortress where we can heal and recover and have some peace.  For me it is a step toward trying to consider myself in things, but it is v scary as a christian who may have misunderstood the concept of self sacrifice and ended up allowing hurt to myself and my sons.  I am feeling v v guilty about allowing these things to have affected their childhoods.  That was the last thing I ever wanted.  But if I can help them now, I will.  I just need to be sure I am doing the right thing.  Your comments are helpful.

[JQ]

Hi Shipwreck,

You are most certainly welcome     I want to first of all commend you on working on your inner self ... .in order for you to reach a good place with someone else ... .you need to first reach a good place within yourself.      In addition to the information to the top and to the right of this site, what if any books have you read?  I know that you said you were going to a DV counselor ... .has you sought out a good therapist with experience in BPD to help you sort through your feelings, emotions & thoughts?  Have you sought out the same for you son's adjustment through this process?  He's had the emotional, physical, mental abuse from your BPD s/o?   What is he doing in the process of working on his inner self?

In regards to your s/o new revelation ... .I'm not saying it did happen or that it didn't happen ... .but BPD's are great at adapting to their situation whatever it might be in order to avoid the intense fear of abandonment.  There are a large portion of individuals who suffer from the Cluster B mental illness of BPD having reporting some type of sexual / physical / mental abuse. Due to that alone he should seek out a good PTSD / BPD therapist in order to sort out and deal with that part of the history of his life. For those suffering from PTSD of any type, whether it's combat ... .some type of abuse the EMDR treatment has shown some amazing results helping those who go through the entire process deal with those traumas. 

HOWEVER, BPD is a very serious mental illness with studies showing that there are actual "hard wiring" of the brain lacking. In other words, the wires don't reach where they're suppose to and this contributes to the mental illness in addition to abnormalities in the frontal cortex in addition to another part of the brain that contributes to the person be able to manage "normal" behavior issues when it comes to relationships of any type.

I know you feel guilty about events happening in your children life ... .you can't change the past ... .You can learn from it, correct the issues and then move forward in both yours & your children lives.  "Those who do NOT learn from the past are condemned to repeat the past ... .George Santayana." 

If you look within ... .and really be honest with yourself ... .you know the answers you seek.

JQ

[Circle]

Hi,

Really solid writing and communication of your thoughts. I know it must be harder than it sounds; but I think you and your son have the right idea with 'operation citadel'. You could get the locks changed, and give your husband a deadline to leave. It will be very difficult though. However, think of how empowered you'll feel when you accomplish it!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Shipwreck, YES, you are doing the right thing by helping your sons.  Self-sacrifice is an admirable quality in other contexts, but a pwBPD will take advantage of your kindness.  In a general sense, those w/BPD are "takers" and we Nons are usually "givers."  Problem is we give too much and there is no end to their taking.  I support "Operation Citadel" and let us know how we can help.

LuckyJim

[Shipwreck]

Things have been very rough here.  I have kept my decision for my BPD to leave.  By the way, I believe he is also an altruistic narcissist... very confusing mix.  He presents much of the time as very tender and loving, but has an underlying angry victim mentality and will switch between mentalities.  It is very confusing as he presents a complete nice persona, as if in another life, that feels totally disconnected to the darker self.  I get caught in the spell at the time and will forget anything bad; this man is a good man, he will never do wrong .  Now I am waking up and trying to pinch myself during this illusion, to remember the realities of the past.

His tearful groanings of sudden revealed inner wounds (offering me hope that, at last he wants to get help - which hope I was doubting) delivered at the time of his pleadings to not have to leave the house, fell a few days later to the usual round of hateful lectures against all things psychology (back on the rather large list of conspiracies and satanic plots against Christendom).  It was indeed a false hope and likely concocted as a manipulative tactic to stay the execution.

Operation Citadel continues but the battle has been bloody today.  He came home drunk and I locked him out (with warm clothes in the garage) for a couple of hours until he sobered up (we have a rule in our house about no drinking here).  He was enraged and verbally abusive and threatening to take every penny of the house.  It seems he has no intention of moving out of here without being forced.  He keeps saying I will have to get a divorce and sell the house so he can have the money to look after himself.  He has no intention of just leaving and going into a room somewhere.  He has been living in the lounge for about 3 weeks now.  He was/is really angry that I removed his clothes from the bedroom.  the tension has been high.  I have been avoiding him a lot, but trying to remain semi friendly.  He tries to get too friendly, offering to decorate the house and share his recent pay, hoping to make me feel obliged and relent.  Whilst I need the money, it will give him a wrong messages if I accept.  I think he should keep it for his deposit on accommodation.  But after tonight, I let him in on the condition he didn't speak to me (as he was ranting on the phone about divorce/revenge).

then my younger son 17 kicked off.  He has not spoken to me for 3 days now (apart from screaming and shouting at me) because I won't let him stay up all night next weekend to watch wrestling.  He has done these all night stay ups before several times but they just wreck him for college - he's half dead all week.  This one is esp long and he can watch it in the morning. I just wanted to put a stop to it.  I had hoped he would come to his own sensible conclusion but he's just carrying on and on with it. He was ranting and raging, threatening to leave college, saying he hates me with an eternal passion, I am cruel, evil, and wants to leave home but can't.  He significantly added that he was angry that I was throwing his Dad out and was worried that I was teaming up with his older brother and he would be controlled by us two.

It is true that I have teamed up with his older brother - he has been greatly helping me to make sense of my s/o.  He has a lot of natural insight and can see what is happening quickly.  He has also encouraged me to set boundaries with his younger brother - who always resists and overthrows them.  The younger brother has been spoilt by his father.  He traditionally latched onto the younger child when he was out of favour with me and would take him out for treats.  My son learnt that he could get what e wanted from his Dad.  He has manipulated him into taking him to an extremely expensive wrestling event next month (we are poor). 

I am very worried that my son may side with my s/o (looking likely) against me and even move out with him.  He told me before that he wasn't bother whether his Dad moved out or not but now I have dared to deny him, he is out to win at any cost.  (He spends most of his time alone on his computer when he is not in college.)  I am very worried about him as he is showing similar angry victim and constantly depressed mentality.  This sudden siding with his dad is a bit of a shock and a threat to me.  i feel invalidated and unable to fight against two enemies at the same time.  the chaos of his father has always made it difficult/impossible to sort out his discipline & boundaries.

I have not worked for 20 years now because of the chaos at home and chronic fatigue I have not been able, nor felt it safe to leave.  If he leaves I will have to get a job and I am terrified, I don't know if I have the strength.  I have been a recluse and I am not used to people.  If my son leaves I will be in an even worse financial position.  My oldest son is trying to ready himself for work but is not able to earn yet.  In reality, I am not in a good position financially to do this thing.  But what is more important?  If I act out of principle and do that which is healthy for me,  I jeopardise my own income and home and these people come screaming out of the woodwork to accuse me of being cruel and selfish.

Will I lose my son?  Will I lose my home?  Will I be able to survive this?  Am I really allowed to make these boundaries (s/o please leave home & son cannot stay up all night)- the costs are so high - can I pay the price?

I have been up in the middle of the night worrying and miserable.  I feel like I have just let the lid off hell. That was just by setting two boundaries.


Books I am reading:  Walking on Eggshells, Co Dependant No More

Therapy:  we are very poor and there is no way I could afford it, but I do what I can from anything online

Am in contact with a dom violence counsellor but not that helpful so far.

[Shipwreck]

I don't know who I am any more.  I have held to a very strict Christian loving forgiving code manner way of life for over 26 years.  I followed the way of self sacrifice and of living in hope.  I have loved God and my family.  I never believed in divorce, but in endless hope.  Then I discovered by daring to look up personality disorders, that I have been living with someone who follows the pattern of an illness/condition that is not likely to get better.  I see how it has made me very ill physically and how I have become the archetypal co-dependant.  So instead of being a good patient Christian who holds ultimate truth, I am actually a person who has been unable to see the truth, and that for years, and at the cost to my children's well being.  The paradigm of narcissistic abuse is my new understanding but I cannot weave it into my earlier rigid Christian code. The N abuse mantra is to get away from that person and then try to heal which contradicts my earlier code of longsuffering. 

In order to escape from my BPD I feel I am having to break my christian code.  Now I don't know what the rules are.  My BPD wants me to divorce him so he can know where he is (I think he needs a new g/f quickly as he is so lonely).  My code original code did not include divorce except for adultery (which hasn't happened).   I can just separate but then I leave him in limbo.  My son says I should separate and let BPD get a divorce if he wants one later.  My BPD wants a clearer decision/divorce to establish his future. 

I go into a swirl.  I don't know what to do.  I lose my sense of self. I cannot see logic any more, I know I am not right.  I am dependant on what everyone else thinks.  I feel unable to decide anything on my own.  I feel very ashamed of this.  I don't want to be ashamed of it any more, I will admit it to myself.  It is the truth.  I have not existed properly perhaps ever.  I need to find a way to get better.  I am a drain on my son and my sister who are my only confidants.  Sometimes I am afraid they may not have my best interests at heart and I feel I am handing over power to them (to make my decisions) as I have handed it to my BPD and would find it hard to say 'no' to either of them. 

I have lost my bearings and I am afraid of making the wrong turn.  Every path has alarming consequences. :'( :'(

[JQ]

Hello Shipwreck, 

You are such a good hearted soul ... .I'm sorry that you've gone through such tribulation and trial to get to this point. Take a moment for yourself, take a deep breath, things will get better. Things always get better.  I know you have a lot of doubt at the moment. Doubt in yourself, your ability to make choices and right now your doubting what path you should take. A lot of us were exactly where you were including myself. Things do get better ... .Things have a way of working themselves out.

BPD mental illness takes such a terrible toll not only on the person it has a lifetime hold on, it takes such a terrible toll on the people that love them. But there is a way out, you don't have to break your Christian code to do it.  You have to love yourself first, YOU have to take care YOU!  YOU can't continue to sacrifice yourself for a person who will continue to suck every life drop of blood from you to satisfy his constant need. Eventually after giving of your heart, mind and soul to the point where you have become physically sick, mentally drained, emotionally wreck, it will be next to impossible to recover from. YOU need to take care of you for your sons. They needs you to help them, show them what a loving and caring relationship is suppose to be like. I watched for years as my BPD step mother constantly fed off my father, constantly taking from him, constantly sucking life from his soul. He sought whatever peace he could from alcohol & antidepressant meds for years. After years of this constant emotional, mental, physical abuse his body gave up before the age of 50. I was never taught what a loving and caring relationship was suppose to be like. Instead I learned what a dysfunctional relationship from BPD was and I unknowingly sought out more then one person like my stepmother. DO you want this future for your sons?  DO you want this future for YOU?

You said, " I lose my sense of self. I cannot see logic any more, I know I am not right".  YOU are among friends who have been where you have been, experienced what you have and I for one can tell you that it gets better. YOU have to take an active role in your recovery. YOU have to fight for your heart, mind & soul just like someone fighting from cancer.  YOU are trying to apply logic to a Cluster B mental illness that defy's logic. NOTHING about BPD is logical. 

You are self aware that you are a codependent, this is the first step for you to a much better place. YOU can learn to say NO to others who would or do take advantage of you, your good and caring heart. YOU can learn to say no to someone's flying monkey's. YOU can get off the crazy train roller coaster Shipwreck, you have to make the choice to do it. Look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself, take a deep breath ... .and tell yourself,  ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AND TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY THAT I'M TAKING MY LIFE BACK!  I WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT HIS MENTAL, PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL ABUSE!

This is your life! No one else's! YOU don't have to live your life for anyone else but yourself, you're responsible to make yourself happy. Do not depend on anyone else to make you happy or to give you a sense of self. Do not feel ashamed as most of us here in the group were where you were at one time, we were lost, I was lost. But just when you think all is hopeless, you take that deep breath, you look in the mirror, YOU decide YOU have had enough! YOU decide to take a different path that won't include the BPD s/o!  YOU are on a new journey of self discovery. This is where a good therapist who is very experienced in BPD & codependent relationships can come in and help you on your journey. They can help guide you through the forest of your confused, frustrating feelings, emotions, anxiety to a better place. They can help give you the tools to build a better new you and assist you build a new life, but YOU have to hold out a hand for someone to help you up. And you have by coming here ... .there are people here that want you to find that better place to a happier new life and you.

Believe in yourself, you know what you need to do, as hard as the choices are, you know what path you need to take. It will be hard, but YOU can do it. I know it's a scary thought, but you are strong enough to succeed!  DO NOT let the BPD monster scare you back into a life that isn't a life. DO NOT HAND YOUR POWER OVER TO ANYONE!   Take it back!  It's time to fight for yourself Shipwreck!

You believe you're lost ... .YOU are NOT lost Shipwreck ... .you've just stumbled on your journey ... .you have learned some valued learning lessons ... .YOU are among friends ... .as promised ... .we're holding out a hand to pick you up & dust you off.  Now it's up to you to take the first step down your new path!  Don't be afraid Shipwreck ... .look behind you ... .you have all of us here who have your back ... .when you stumble and fall again ... .we'll be here to pick you back up! YOU are strong enough to do this! YOU CAN DO THIS!     

JQ      

[JQ]

Shipwreck & group,

I've enclosed a link to a Youtube webinar conducted by Ross Rosenberg, the author of "The Human Magnet Syndrome" which explains the opposite attracks each other like magnets. It talks about codependent recovery process.

I believe that we all know about the BPD and their Cluster B mental illness ... .we discuss quite in depth here ... .but what I believe lacks the attention is a discussion of US ... .us as the Codependent. 

So Shipwreck ... .here is the foundation you, us, we can build not only to help yourself learn and become a recovered codependent ... .but reinforce it in all of us. Knowledge is the key to success.

I hope that his helps everyone as needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMPaKJfrZrA

JQ

[Shipwreck]

Thank you JQ

I have already seen Ross Rosenbergs Human Magnet syndrome videos  and lots of his other ones.  I am constantly also listening on youtube to

What's wrong... with Kris and Steve

Richard Grannon spartanlifecoach

Sam Vaknin

Familytreecounselling

DelusionDispeller

Meanie Tonia Evans

They have been really helping me.  I listen round the house as I work.  I really need this constant input to keep my resolve up and reassure me that this new path is valid.  I also have allowed myself to listen to meditations on healing from abuse, codependency, fear, shame et al.  My BPD is able to put me into a trance so easily.  

I get tempted to just forget all this and fall back into the trance and enjoy his favour and soft words.  The wooing tactics he goes through, even as I am pushing him away are very powerful and very painful.  He spoons me with guilt about his terrible fate, with fear of how I will cope without him and how I am turned from God, how I will deeply regret casting aside all we have had and meant together and how lonely I am going to be. He is running round right now cleaning the windows and gutters and kitchen and promising to paint the stairs soon.  The message is 'what are you doing?  what are you doing?  are you mad?

Thank you so much for your replies and for your support and encouragement.  I will re read what you have said to me repeatedly as there is a lot in there and in your earlier replies.  It helps me to read this whole thread to remind me of what has been happening.

I sincerely wish I had a good therapist to talk to but I am in no position to afford such a thing so I will keep you tubing and trying to connect to my feelings.

[JQ]

Hey Shipwreck, 

You are certainly welcome ... .whatever I can do to help you get to a better place from such a deep rut on your journey ... .something that helped me when I was in the same place you were, I kept telling myself that this entire situation was only temporary! This won't last the rest of my life because I refuse to let myself feel this way for the rest of my life. I REFUSE to let her control my emotions or the cause of my pain!

I don't know where you are in the world, but if your a VET here in the US, they have counselors to help with anything that might be troubling you. There are public clinics too and their are counselors out there that will assist you get the help you want. And of course the wonderful sight as well.

This is only temporary     

Shipwreck, you can certainly PM if you ever feel the need too.