Baffled by behavior

[Survivingher]

I'll try to make this brief as possible.   On again off again for over a year.  I was the hero but she still clung to her x.    Went back to him in June of last year and recycled me in October.  Ever break up has been ugly with fighting.  Never an apology from her.    Ok so fast forward to dec.  she has final breakup with ex and I let her move in.  Was supposed to be temporary, but amazingly (kidding). She lost her job and her new apt.  So it was great for about 5 weeks.  Lots of sex, she helped with my kids and around the house.  I was paying all her bills.  I didn't care as long as she was nice.   She's the hottest woman in the city and routinely gets away with this stuff.   Then the triangulation starts with an old married lover.  Confronted her and she moved to the guest room.   Silent treatment for weeks.  Only come out to eat and use restroom.   I've never seen anything like it.  I tried to make peace but it was always met with anger.   She didn't see him often as she only left house 2 times in weeks.   I gave her 30 day notice and waited for the days to countdown.  Her behavior was God Awful.  Fits of rage, stole money, Cursing, drunk, cocaine, verbal abuse, etc.   I was losing my mind.   So on the 30thday she says she is going to visit family but goes to visit yet another ex.   I moved all her stuff to storage and texted her that I knew where she was and her stuff was gone.  Changed locks, etc.   of course she freaked on me and flew back early.  I paid for a hotel room for a week and offered to rent her an apt and pay for 2 months if she'd just leave. She refused and even spent one nite sleeping in my car in my driveway.  No apology though.  She didn't want me back.  She just didn't wanna leave and she needed to win.   So then she went to stay with a girlfriend.    Here is the confusing part.   She suddenly becomes nice and civil.   I was weak and curious and asked her if she wanted to talk one nite and she said she had plans but thanks for asking. I said if you want to meet next week let me know.   She then texts me asking how my weekend was and informs me that she has spoken to a parent that she has avoided for over a year.  Later she texts that she was working hard to get a job and that she wanted me to meet one of her friends (I always asked to meet her friends, talk to parent and get a job).  I told her I was happy for her and that she seemed to be making good changes.   She thanked me for the help I had given her and then went silent for about a week.  I never text or call her first.     So I week later she texts wanting to know the name of my movers and that she has one box at my place to get.  I tell her that's fine and that I need my telephone that she has had all these months.   She is nice and thanks me and asks me to leave box in my porch and she will leave my phone on Wednesday of last week.   So Wednesday morning I put the stuff outside and she texts from her new number and asks me if the stuff is on porch and can she have movers number again. (I swear she did this so I'd have her new number ). I didn't text back,  but she then called me like 10 minutes later from a different number and asked me again about the stuff.  She also repeated several times that she was calling from her work number.  She definitely wanted me to know that she now has a job.  I was polite as always, but never asked where she was moving or where she was working.   Almost done... .so I said goodbye and she came and got her stuff.  I didn't see her.   Saturday morning I'm getting Mail and she has out my garage door opener in my mailbox sometime Friday nite or early Saturday.   That was the last of any items we had to exchange.   My question is this. Wtf?   Making sure I know about all these changes, being very polite and thankful ,  but never taking me up on my offer to meet.  I never said anything else about it after I asked her 10 or so days ago.   Is she trying to get me to pursue her?  I won't of course.   Is she grooming me for future Charm?   It's very confusing.  I guess I'll see what happens now.  She has hovered me before being nice , but usually it was weeks later.   Someone said she brought garage controller by trying to get a response from me or to appear like she's moved on, or to see who's at my house.   She's never been awake before 11am on a sat that I know of.   Just seems strange to go out of way to return that.  I'll say this.  I've never been so resolute before and she can feel it.  I've always given green lite for a Charm in the past with a nice email or text and haven't this time despite being polite to her (except asking her if she wanted to meet).  She's not the type to Charm if she thinks you'll reject her.  Ok. Sorry so long.  It's my first post.  And yes... .I do want her to Charm.  Idk why.  Ego, validation, I'm not fully over her, etc. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

Hi Survivingher,

Attention and charm feel pretty good.  

Understanding what it is that you like about her attention, validation, is a really good place to start. It must feel very good to have her make all those changes, dropping hints that she still cares about you and what you think. If she makes all these changes to please you, then you must be very meaningful to her, which means you have worth. Is that an accurate way to describe the dynamic?

If she is BPD, it will be hard for her to grieve loss, which means her emotions will tend to store up like deposits in a bank. She does not process the loss and the connections are always fresh, even when they become negative or the relationship goes dormant for a while. When she begins to dysregulate, kaboom, the force of all those compounding negative emotions rocket out in full force. When something negative happens, she seeks out connections elsewhere (or drugs) to help soothe the pain, shame, and grief. Chaos and drama can be an effective way to avoid the bigger picture of what connects all the chaos.

She probably reconnects with exes because none of them are ever really over in terms of how her internal emotional guidance system functions. You are having a hard time letting go, and you have the capacity to grieve loss. This is a pretty important capacity to help synthesize emotional events, and she does not necessarily have that capacity.

I guess the key part now is to figure out what you want, why you want it, and, if you want to try and save the relationship, what you can do to mitigate some of the BPD traits that are most challenging for you and the relationship.

[Survivingher]

Thank you for the response.   I do care greatly about her and we had some great times, but also some awful times... .she called this morning and I let it go to v mail , but then texted that I was in a meeting.  She texted back that she needed acct for mini storage to pay bill and remove her stuff.  I gave it to her and told her I'd pay it if needed because I promised that I'd pay through April, but that I'd thought she had already taken her stuff out.   She waited till tonite to reply and said it was Empty now and that I might wanna cancel the acct since its in my name and that April was paid now... .I won't respond.   So I don't know what to make of any of this if anything.   I don't think she needed to contact me for the acct number.  She coulda just paid there at the office.   I think she is trying to get a reaction from me.  Idk.   Maybe I'm reading into things.   It could be that the changes she claims were simply to throw in my face that she's doing fine.   At any rate.  I know she loves the chase and always has balls in the air.  I don't mind being chased.  In fact I want it, but I don't wanna be one of those balls.  I've seen this woman go crazy chasing an ex that had a new girlfriend.  Seduce him, stalk, etc.  when he finally dumped his girlfriend for her again,  she started calling me within 2 weeks.   It's amazing really.   So I think my best play is to let her come to me... .or not.   But contacting her would be pointless.   Playing hard to get , but open to the possibility is all she responds too.   Wants what she can't have and hates that you might be controlled by someone else.   She knows I've sorta been seeing someone but doesn't know how serious.   I think that's why she put controller in mailbox sat morning.  To see if anyone's car was at my house, to which there was so... .Maybe that's why the phone cal this morning.  I know she is patient and very cunning.  She thinks about every move.  I find her so interesting... .and yeah. I love her.  I wish I didn't.  She hasn't gone more than 4-5 without contacting me in last 3 weeks, but they've all been marginally reasonable reasons.   

[Survivingher]

 What you said is very interesting :

"She does not process the loss and the connections are always fresh, even when they become negative or the relationship goes dormant for a while. When she begins to dysregulate, kaboom, the force of all those compounding negative emotions rocket out in full force."

We once broke up several weeks.  She said she never wanted to speak to me again. I went and got a vasectomy after we broke up.   Fast forward a few weeks when she makes contact and i tell her this.  She went nuts like she owned me and told me I had no right to do that without asking her first.   Wow.   Another time we broke up she did everything possible to keep me from going to a party that she assumed I was going to.     It seems with her,   You let her know you miss her and want to work things out knowing you'll be rejected... .then go silent and wait and play hard to get.    I dint know.  Geez.  It shouldn't be this hard.   Is it even worth it?  Rinse , wash , repeat.   It's  a slot machine

[livednlearned]

Being in a relationship with someone who has BPD is a deeply personal decision. Not all pwBPD are the same, not all nons are the same. There are degrees of severity and for some non-BPD partners, values can be very different. Probably more than most relationships, values have to be articulated so that you understand your boundaries (to protect yourself). Her behavior will likely be a lot less upsetting if you understand and consistently assert your boundaries. And in doing so, use the communication skills that validate her reality (accepting and acknowledging what she feels without necessarily agreeing with the content of what she is saying). In other words, you have to be willing to be the emotional leader.

It is important to recognize that this is largely a disorder about emotional dysregulation. The way I explain it to myself is to imagine how it would be to make decisions in life that are largely driven by emotion. Exhausting, I think. Maybe scary. What we see on the outside of pwBPD, we often take personally, though over the years I see more of the fear-based emotions driving 99 percent of the behavior. It is less vindictive and less manipulative than I originally believed.

More, it is someone in survival mode who is missing a key synthesizing component that regulates emotions in an appropriate way, in a way that allows them to thread together both logic and emotion so that there is balance, or as much as anyone can hope to have.

She lost you, and pwBPD do not grieve loss the same way you might, and there is often a lot of shame, too much to process there too. So your actions probably feel like abandonment and rejection together. To try and reconcile these feelings, she has to seek validation from you while also knowing on some level that she has acted badly, a feeling that probably bounces out pretty quick while she works to get deeper needs met (approval, love, desire).

Have you had a chance to read about BPD? Did she suggest she might be BPD to you?

[Survivingher]

Oh yes.   I've been reading about BPD since we've met.   Nothing has ever been typical about her.   She meets every criteria.  All past relationships ended horribly.   Always talking too and dragging along exes even if it's fighting.  Lots of drama, lots of triangulation , Hold cold.  She's also npd.   Has tried suicide 2x.  Lies, manipulation... .why do want her back?  Lol.   Actually.  I fell into this immediately after a bad divorce.   I was vulnerable and beat down or I would have dumped her right away.   But here I am.   I think about her all the time. i date a lot and have passed on some great women because of her.   On the other hand.  Since my divorce I seem drawn to women that can't get close to me so I don't have to get close.  I blow off the good ones.   

Ok so now what?   Just wait till she breaks like she did with her ex? Or throw out a line and expect rejection and then wait?    I think she knows she messed up and for me to break would be diminishing the self respect I have gotten back.  Given her history, I don't think she'll disappear if still interested.   She tests a lot.    Also,   Maybe she really is done and these are all legitimate reasons for contact       Either way I'll know soon.   She's running out of reasons to reach out. So if she keeps coming up with reasons,  I'll know.   

[livednlearned]

It does sound like she triangulates like a champ  

So when things go badly with whoever she is with (perpetrator), then she'll seek out another safe haven (rescuer).

You ok with that?

Once she is back with you, it's super important to have boundaries to protect you (vs. to control her). What might those be for you? Meaning, what are behaviors that she might do that you need boundaries in order to protect yourself while they're happening? She may continue to do coke. A boundary might be: not in your home. She may continue to hook up with other men. Your boundary might be: if she sleeps with someone, you don't want to know about. Or maybe you do want to know about it. Another boundary might be that you do not pay for her rent, her utilities, no mingled finances. Only pay for things that you are ok with, in the event she disappears, you aren't left holding tickets to Hawaii or whatnot.

And in communicating with her, to try and mitigate the wind up to conflict, it's good to learn validation inside and out until it's second nature. Try it with acquaintances, friends, family, try it with her. Learn to pause in conversation when you feel your own emotions boiling up.

Validation and boundaries are two sides of the same coin, both are necessary in BPD relationships so that you do not get lost again and lose your dignity. She actually needs you to have boundaries since she has none, or few. She may not like the boundaries (outbursts), and she will respect them as long as you are consistent and assertive and kind in enforcing them.

She is not likely going to change so you're the one who needs to make things happen.

[Survivingher]

she does triangulate like a champ.  she was literally talking to 4 exes in some capacity the entire time she lived with me.  some were decent to her, some were very abusive.   even if she wants nothing to do with these men, she keeps in contact so they cant move on.  its cruel.  she emails one poor guy and gets him stirred up to the point he goes nuts on his responses to her and she then threatens legal action if he doesn't leave her alone.  its sad.  shes been in court with several on these guys for restraining orders.  I don't get it.  all in know is I don't want to be one of these guys she tries to keep from moving on.  not really worried about her accomplishing that, but its just so insulting for her to try and do that.  ill move on and be fine.  the one thing she has though, she is the sexiest woman around and knows how to use it to break people down.  I have been witness to watching her a do a full 180 when she wants something.  she had been awful to for 2 weeks and then her car note came due and she had sex with me and told me she loved me.  I laughed at her and said since when?  long term there is no chance.  youd have a heart attack before then anyway.   she cant go 3 months without blowing up even with men she claims to really love. let alone several years in a marriage.  Id like to find another BPD that's slightly less violent.  because I am drawn to them.  ive always been an adrenaline junky.    I know she has a replacement, but its not love.  its a means to an end.  hes recycled, fat, married, but wealthy.  it made her feel awful last time she was with him and she will again .   she knows theres no future  there.  she would of course expect me to pay her rent, car note, utilities, spending money, cc bills, etc... .  basically shes a kept women.   funny thing is, shes wont ever leave her apt to do anything fun.  no concerts, sporting events, vacations, etc... only goes out if there is alcohol.  she is like a Ferrari in the garage that only runs every couple weeks, but it even then it might leave you stranded.  she has so much more to offer though.  she thinks all she has is looks, but shes wicked funny and made me laugh a lot... .i miss her.  damnit              like i said, she may have moved on for good this time.  after living together and it not working, she may figure... whats left to explore.    but what will become of her?  shes 35 and will pretty for awhile, but will she continue to jump from bed to bed when shes 45?  she remind me so much of Sharon stone in Casino.  tragic character.  she knows it too.   all of her heroes are tragic. 

[tryingsome]

Id like to find another BPD that's slightly less violent.  because I am drawn to them. 

Why are you drawn to them? And/Or unhealthy dynamics?

[Survivingher]

My therapist says im love avoidant.  ive always felt claustrophobic if someone gets too close.   my divorce just reinforced my beliefs so I was even more vulnerable to her.   

[livednlearned]

My therapist says im love avoidant.  ive always felt claustrophobic if someone gets too close.   my divorce just reinforced my beliefs so I was even more vulnerable to her.   

Is this something you want to change?