Im ready for divorce - how to proceed

[meerkat1]

Ive been on the board for a while, off and on. Was undecided for a long time. Some things have changed, some have not. All the meds in the world, and all the therapy cannot undo what was done and cannot really change her completely. The cycle of abuse was only lengthened by the drugs and therapy, not ended.  And I finally realized, even if by some miracle she is all better, I lost the love for her that I felt long ago. I need to move on. Somehow.

And that brings me here. I'm struggling with proceeding. I have three kids, one of which has mental issues of his own. I'm concerned with his reaction to a divorce.

I have taken the step to interview lawyers, have one more to go. Looking for a lawyer I can get along with and has dealt with high conflict of the BPD type.  Their approaches all different. One even recommending starting with civil protection order to have her removed from the house at time of filing. This due to the past and potential for physical violence, some fairly recent (within 3 months). Not so sure about that, given i cant prove the past violence. Additionally, it pulls her away from kids, and cause even more stress.

When I do approach her and let her know how i feel, I'm afraid that will be the end right there. Start huge fight, could get physical. May have to leave house before I even file.

Has anyone here filed and left the residential home, leaving kids with BPD? At this point she is a high functioning, highly medicated BPD. Nearly 100% of issues were directed at me over the years. And I have no issues with her as a mother, at least while I have been there to pick up the pieces.

Any advice on how to get this started would be helpful. Please note I am currently under review for diagnosis of PTSD or CPTSD due to the nature of this relationship and its effect on me. So its been very difficult to move forward with divorce knowing the trauma I will face. But I know I need to do this so I can have a life again.

On some level I am wondering if I should simply sit back enjoy the quiet time now. Knowing she will go off the deep end again, and just do it then. Involve the police and all.

Or simply tell her i am done. As I have done in the past. Tell her I'm filing, and file.  Find a place to move to. And go. Worry about time with kids later.

Any suggestions on how to proceed, how to approach divorce with BPD wife are appreciated.

[ForeverDad]

Ive been on the board for a while, off and on. Was undecided for a long time. Some things have changed, some have not. All the meds in the world, and all the therapy cannot undo what was done and cannot really change her completely. The cycle of abuse was only lengthened by the drugs and therapy, not ended.

It has been commented here that meds may help moderate the extremes of behaviors but it takes long term therapy diligently applied to life (thinking, perceptions and behaviors) to make substantive changes.  So if the person isn't inclined to stop the typical Denial, get into meaningful therapy, make real changes and stick with therapy, then it is up to us to determine what our options are.

And that brings me here. I'm struggling with proceeding. I have three kids, one of which has mental issues of his own. I'm concerned with his reaction to a divorce.

I often quote from this book which I bought just to track down this quote:

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Staying together would mean that's the only example of home life they would have known — discord, conflict, invalidation, overall craziness, etc.  Some 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.  And some of the flying monkeys too.

I have taken the step to interview lawyers, have one more to go. Looking for a lawyer I can get along with and has dealt with high conflict of the BPD type.  Their approaches all different. One even recommending starting with civil protection order to have her removed from the house at time of filing. This due to the past and potential for physical violence, some fairly recent (within 3 months). Not so sure about that, given i cant prove the past violence. Additionally, it pulls her away from kids, and cause even more stress.

I can't tell you which approach is best but be careful that you misplace your priorities.  Start with yourself, as the airlines always repeat, "In the event of an emergency put on your oxygen mask first then help others."  Then the children.  Sadly, your spouse will have to be further down the list.  Anything else and you risk needlessly sabotaging yourself.  Ponder that perspective.

When I do approach her and let her know how i feel, I'm afraid that will be the end right there. Start huge fight, could get physical. May have to leave house before I even file.

Sharing information is fine, even needed, for a relationship to remain healthy.  In a dysfunctional and conflictual relationship, sharing information ("I'm {contemplating} ending the marriage" is a real danger, sadly.  Otherwise you risk an extreme overreaction.  For example she may try to frame you for some trumped up incidents.  Remember, pwBPD can't handle accepting fault (even if you're trying not to set the fault).  If she feels bad there is a high risk that she will do whatever she can to make you look even worse.  And as a woman and mother, she has her choice of DV allegations or child abuse/endangerment allegations!  (I faced repeated child abuse allegations — I lost count — during our months of separation, during our two year divorce and into our first year post-divorce.)

A good lawyer, once he realizes the high conflict and risks, will advise you to make confidential preparations, no hints or insinuations, and only talk with her (safely, best with a witness in the background to prove you weren't aggressive or abusing) when all your ducks are in order and ready to go.

Has anyone here filed and left the residential home, leaving kids with BPD?

Or simply tell her i am done. As I have done in the past. Tell her I'm filing, and file.  Find a place to move to. And go. Worry about time with kids later.

Many of us didn't have a choice and were forced out.  My story is weird... .I got the house in my TPO due to her death threats but since adult behaviors are not always seen as reflective of parenting behaviors, she got temp custody for the separation and divorce process even though she couldn't come back to the house.

On some level I am wondering if I should simply sit back enjoy the quiet time now. Knowing she will go off the deep end again, and just do it then. Involve the police and all.

Or simply tell her i am done. As I have done in the past. Tell her I'm filing, and file.  Find a place to move to. And go. Worry about time with kids later.

Okay, so use the quiet time now to get your ducks in a row (paperwork) ASAP while waiting for the next raging incident as a trigger event.

If you "worry about time with the kids later" then likely you'd abdicate parenting and control of the children to her and have an uphill struggle to regain substantive parenting.  Frankly, if you keep the kids with you at time of separation then it will be her struggling to get back in presumed control.  What would be hard for you as a father to regain won't be so hard for her since mothers are often defaulted to custodial/majority time.

You need to have a strategy (or multiple strategies!), not jump from incident to incident, odds are that approach would have you losing too often.  Your experienced, problem solving, proactive lawyer can help you develop smart strategies.  If you choose a forms filer, hand holder lawyer, then you're in for a rougher ride.  We here in (remote) peer support can help too, we've "been there, done that" and have an immense treasure trove of collective wisdom.

Any suggestions on how to proceed, how to approach divorce with BPD wife are appreciated.

As I recommended above, keep it confidential until served.  Keep your phone within reach.  Probably record too (out of sight!) so that you can prove you weren't the abusive or threatening one.  View it like vacations post-separation.  Each parent gives the other parent a written vacation notice, not a vacation request.  Some things just don't work by asking or discussing or reasoning with someone who won't listen to reason.

Be prepared, though, that you may get sideswiped and thrown through a loop when you do tell her.  Though she may rant and rage horribly, another possible response could be that she starts sobbing, says she needs her kids and claims, "If only I had known you were really going to do divorce then I would have been nicer/saner/working harder on therapy/{whatever}."  What I'm saying is she may get you to feel sorry for her and then you hold off on taking action.  And then if she doesn't immediately sabotage you with her own allegations (to put you at a disadvantage) and filing, then she may get you to stay on the roller coaster for a few more loops around the tracks.

EDIT:  Why did I write in such detail?  So many of your thoughts, however well intentioned and natural to us Knights in Shining Armor, would sabotage your separation (from a conflictual spouse) and parenting prospects.  It's not your fault, nor ours.  You and we try to be Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  However, we need to do so with awareness and strategic planning, knowing that our otherwise excellent qualities could result in us bringing a plastic butter knife to a gunfight.

[whirlpoollife]

Now that you made the decision , it's time to plan. You have already started with interviewing attorneys. Better than what I did. 

When it comes to kids, custody, I was the nice one. Told the kids they would still see their dad, told xh that I was not planning to take the kids away from him that he would still them.  Then with first L , said yes to joint and legal custody ... .because I felt so ashamed for taking the kids away from both parents.

That didn't work.  Xh went full speed , with his L, which he had in the wings waiting, going for full custody. The PA from him , went full speed too.  Xh and his L wanted and got a GAL. He sided with xh. During custody hearing , the GAL looked right at me and said your kids want nothing to do with you and they want to only live with their dad who they love very much.  I had to decide in five minutes , under pressure to hurry up , the fate of where these lives were going to live.  If I said ok, then I would not  see my kids again. Of course I said no , which brought the custody time to the middle.  Which is what they wanted from the start.  I had documents and lists of what I did as a parent , with the kids , from the time they were born.  I did everything , there was no 50/50 in child care in marriage with xh.

What we do naturally and day to day you wouldn't think to write down so it takes time to put together what you as a parent.  You can't be nice when it comes to custody.

After I had filed, we lived together five months to await a hearing . It was hell. And more time for xh to take control of the kids and take finacial papers out of the house.   I did move some to a storage unit , but then again I didn't just take them all and move them. 

It was recommended from first L, in a one sentence as the consult was finishing up, to get a PFA if I want him out of the house. At the time I was so scared of xh I couldn't do it. I was scared to talk to anyone. I was scared of the kids seeing their dad taken away.  They would really hate me more for that. After all it was I who was breaking the family apart.  And I thought PFA was only for young women who's boyfriends were physically beating them to the hospital.

I don't know if it's possible but moving out and having an immediate temporary custody order in place could be the answer.  Moving out without a temp custody order would jeopardize custody later.

Hopelfully my scenarios can give you more questions for the prospective L 's. 

[Makersmarksman]

What type of custody arrangement are you looking for? It sounds like joint legal and physical,  which if so your attorney can inform you on moving out.  Leaving the marital home is rarely advised as a custody matter,  it will definitely give the upper hand to your spouse.  I filed,  and stayed in the home,  it was certainly a brutal month but wife ended up leaving for an apartment she had already leased.  It sounds like you could be in for a similar ride if you stay and I can tell you if you think you have seen it all from her,  you probably haven't once you do file. But if you simply have to get out you have to do what you have to do.

[ugghh]

First and foremost, as has already been said, your job now is to take care of yourself and your kids.  I am posting my short list of things I learned when preparing and going through divorce, which is borrowed from multiple sources.  Also highly recommend that you order a copy of "Splitting" by Bill Eddy.

1) Get a therapist for yourself.  Not a marriage counselor, but someone whose job is to help you get your head on straight in this incredibly stressful time. 

2) Get an experienced divorce/family law attorney.  This is also not a job for new attorney. If you interview an attorney and he or she says they always settle and you will not need to go to court, that is not the attorney for you.

3) Be prepared for the false restraining order,false child abuse accusations & Parental Alienation.  This is a very common reaction from the BPD playbook. 

4) Get a digital audio recorder or two.  You should never be around your stbx without a recorder running. 

5) Don’t be afraid to tell family and friends.  Too often we try to hide what is happening in our relationship from a sense of embarrassment, pride or fear.   

6) Have an emergency escape plan.  This often dovetails with beginning to reach out to family and friends.   In many states if there is a domestic violence complaint, one of the parties is leaving the house for the night.  Even if you are innocent it could be you. 

7) Videotape the house.  There is a very real possibility that your stbx will lock you out/ destroy things/ sell things, etc

8) Document, document, document - If you have kids, you are likely their best connection both to reality and stability in the chaos of the BPD.  Once of the best tools at your disposal costs nothing but a bit of your time.  A simple journal of what you do for your kids each day.  If you can add pictures and mementos, even better. 

9) Don’t take legal advice from your stbx.  You may find yourself at the end of a stream of threats from your stbx about what the courts are going to do when they report all your transgressions.   Tune it out. 

10) Don’t expect the process to be cheap or fast.  Remember that pwBPD usually feel very entitled and in fact if you quiz them they often have a very distorted sense of what it really costs to live. 

11) Take action to separate your finances.  Redirect your pay into an account into which only you have access.  Cut off joint credit cards.  This does not mean stop paying the bills, it simply means you control how they are paid.

12) Avoid face to face or telephone communications whenever possible.  pwBPD live for the conflict of these and you have no documentation of what was said.  Email is always preferable.

13) Practice radio silence.  You communicate only about what issues are essential to get through the day, such as kid’s schedules, etc.  Your job is not to look out for your stbx.  Preferably via email.

14) Make copies of all important documents you may need and store them in a secure off-site location.

15) Do not expect a neutral playing field when dealing with custody evaluators, guardian at litem, friend of the court, etc.  Do not get drawn into bashing your stbx.  The goal is to show how involved you are with your kids. 

16) Don’t be in hurry, especially with a high functioning BPD.  Time provides a chance for you to document your pwBPD unstable behaviors, which they might hide over a short term.  The goal is not to have them diagnosed, but simply to show patterns of behavior.

[meerkat1]

I appreciate all the advice here! Very good. I am currently seeing a therapist. She says she is familiar with BPD. But! Based on some of the advice i got here, and my own intuition, I have to wonder if she really does understand. she recommended I approach pwBPD with the divorce prior to filing, and discuss the situation. As if that could be rational.  Either way, I am looking for a new therapist, due to she has to discontinue her practice for a full time position and I really need specific ptsd treatment.

I am very much working on myself. Working out and taking every opportunity to get out of the house. Biggest step will be making friends and actually doing things with friends away from pwBPD.

Also, based on the advice here, I dont think any of the lawyers i interviewed would work out. Only one seemed like he would deal with the 'high conflict' portion well, but he was an arrogant ass. Hope thats not what I need. I hate dealing with people like that. The others were more hand holding. I will keep my search going, but want to start prepping quickly.

For those that separated finances, how did you go about doing that? Seems like that is just a way to ensure pwBPD knows you are preparing. I have gotten separate emergency credit card, and will be getting emergency kit together.  In my case she is on top of the finances like a hawk. Constantly on it and vigilant. Additionally, i am the sole breadwinner, not that has anything to do with it.

[ForeverDad]

Let's review... .

• Have lawyer ready to file the divorce paperwork next morning when the court house opens.



• Have a voice recorder or similar device recording.



• Have a trusted friend nearby on speed dial.



• Keep it on topic, any deviation and you redirect or end it.



• View this more as a Notice rather than a negotiation.  Why?  A sudden promise to "after all these years I will now change at this last gasp of the marriage" is unlikely to be productive and could even give your spouse time to sabotage you.



• Be very alert for police being called on you, false allegations or being framed for DV, child abuse, etc.

Yeah, maybe, just maybe, that might work.  Wouldn't have worked for my Ex but then again she was and is very confrontational.  I understand some pwBPD might not overreact, but can you count on it?  Would the T come bail you out of jail?