More in the constant stream of stuff

[Depression = 72% of members]

So I've started a new thread. I really just need some help with this.

So there's been a bit more news. Just really briefly... .She was openly suggesting in a social media forum that she was having a sexual relationship with a man or men. I was finding this out bc a friend of mine is an acquaintance of hers and had caught her in a lie a few months back, and had started informing me of what she was doing. And this goes a little toward answering something PnC had asked... .She didn't know that I knew about what was happening with the other guy. I was being informed bc my friend thought it was bs that she was telling me one thing and doing something else. My feeling on the matter was that it was probably the guy she met down here, and most likely it would go away soon and I would still be there.

A couple things kind of changed recently. First, since she was apparently doing things with other guys, I started looking into my opportunities as well. I actually do fairly well with dating, and I got quite a few. I met someone, and it looked like it had some possibilities. So a couple weeks ago I told her. She was clearly not happy but didn't get overtly upset.

That night, she made some comments on her social media page and my friend told me. So I told her that she had said something. My friend has a position of authority in a certain section of the community that she wants to be active, so she asked to speak to her. I gave her my friends email address and thy started talking.

Also, she did write me the day after I had told her about the new woman and told me that she had not been seeing anyone, just flirting online, and that none of those guys were what I was to her. I thanked her, and told her no one was what she was either.

But she and my friend started writing. At first it was fairly cordial, and she acknowledged that she had not treated me well. Things seemed to have been at least somewhat alleviated.

Then last Tuesday, my friend basically lambasted her for what she did when she came down for my birthday (refresher - she came down, hadn't made plans to see me and didn't tell me how long she was staying. I assumed she had planned to avoid me and gave her an ultimatum which she ignored, then she got together with another guy and immediately gave him more trust than she gave me, and has acted like it meant something ever since instead of just being a stupid rebound thing that happens bc she lowered her standards.) My friend had told her that what she did was a huge sore spot with her, and that while she wanted to smooth things over and that she respected her reaching out and trying to clear things up, that her actions down here had made my friend extremely angry, and it had affected her reputation among other people as well. At first, the PwBPD didn't respond. Then, in a really weird night, she sort of undid all the sort of conciliatory measures she had made, and basically took a lot of effort to lash out at her and, apparently, me.  She had actually sent me a text saying she hoped I had a good day. I had posted some pictures of the new girl on one of my social media sites, and that night she blocked me and the new girl, and put up lots of kind of aggressive posts... .Liking pictures of the guy she met don here. Friending a creepy guy she knew I didn't like, etc. Posting some fairly explicit pictures. it seemed like a lot had gotten to her.

The next morning I wrote and wanted to make sure she was okay. She said she had taken the previous day off work, and was considering whether to move to a different state bc my friend and that part of the community had problems with her. I should also note that she had made a bad impression and was on their radar before she and I became an item. She said she'd write me later that day.

When she did, she basically blamed me for the fact that my friend and the community didn't like her. She acknowledged that it wasn't my fault, but that my connection to her was what had caused the problem and was why she was now in the situation. Of course, like I said, they had problems with her before that... .And they only got angry bc they kept catching her in lies. If she had been honest with me there would have been no problems with them at all... .But of course I didn't say that.

She said that, bc of that, she needed "space"... .Which I'd be giving her for a few weeks. I only talked when she initiated and tried to be positive and validating. But now she said she wanted to cut off contact completely. She agreed that it wasn't fair, and that she cared about me and it would be hard, but it's what she needed to do. And that was the end of that.

The next day, my friend tried to smooth things over, and wrote an email where she said that she had thought they were making progress toward burying the hatchet, but that her actions that week had made everyone very skeptical. She said she would like to keep discussing things and would assume she had made those decisions to act emotionally and impulsively. And she said that she really shouldn't blame me. I had don nothing at all and that we would both be losing someone important to us and it wasn't fair to either of us to blame me for what my friend had done. She offered to speak to her one on one and let it stay between them.

However, if she didn't respond and kept acting in that manner, that my friend would have to presume that she was actually not just immature but kind of dangerous, in that she wanted to lie with impunity and take no responsibility for her actions. And if that was the case, she would be obliged to warn the members of the segment of the community where they were both trying to interact in whatever city she moved.

I got a text from the girl with BPD later that day saying that my friend had threatened to follow her wherever she went if she didn't get back with me. This was just not the case, and I can't see anywhere in the correspondence where that was even implied. But she asked me to make it stop. So I talked to my friend and said that she should just leave her alone. She agreed to for my sake.

I told her, and she said she was grateful and it meant a lot to her. I asked if we were going to talk again, and she said maybe. She had been thinking about a lot of things and needed time to think just on her own. I asked if she was getting space from everyone or just me, and she said everyone. She said my affection, which, again, I hadn't really shown or stated for awhile, was just one part of things that wer smothering her. All I had done was just try to help her when she needed things so she would be able to stay afloat. I even paid for a plane ticket for her to come down and visit, and said she didn't need to plan to see me since she said she needed space. I did tell her that since I paid, though, I wasn't okay with her seeing that guy. If he wanted to see her he could foot that bill.

She did come down, didn't tell me, and I have no evidence that she saw that guy but she did see the friend who introduced them. Granted, at the time she still thought I was with the other girl, but she also knew befor that and hadn't said anything. You'd think, after that caused the biggest problem we had, that she'd at least say something, but no... .

Anyway, back to the conversation after I got my friend off of her... .

She said that maybe we would talk again. She said she wanted to say that yes, eventually, we would but she wanted to just see how she felt after the reflection. I told her that I cared about her and would miss her, and she thanked me but asked me to stop. Oh, also, I had broken up with the other girl in the meantime. She also had a lot of underlying issues that I just couldn't handle after what I'd been through with this girl. Sk I told her that was over.

Again, sh thanked me, said that she knew how I felt but that words didn't mean a whole lot to her. It's funny, since I don't think anyone she's ever known has done more to show her she was important through actions than myself. But whatever. I told her to be good and that I thought we'd talk again soon. She said "when I'm ready to", and I said of course.

That was Friday. I already miss her so much I can't stand it. I have several other girls I'm talking to, and I'm working and exercising, but if anything she's on my mind more than less. I just don't understand how she could even be considering not speaking to me again. I didn't do anything to deserve that. If anything, it's like everyone else gets what I want from her, and all I get is just the stress and blame and bad attitude. I keep hoping that her time away will make all that clear. At least she's never denied that she has feelings and cares for me.

I'm at work today and it's all I can do to not burst into tears. I want to write her and tell her how unfair it all is, and how if someone is angry at her that it's bc of what SHE did herself. The fact that she wouldn't even qcknowledge or speak about if must mean that my friend hit a nerve. I only hope it's bc she does feel incredibly guilty about what she did. The fact that this guy gets to be in her life at all, even though she has told me she doesn't want a relationship and specifically another long distance one, makes me feel a little better. And she told me that all she was doing was flirting, and with a "few people", but she's lied before. I kind of believe her that she was only flirting, but I think that's bc nothing else was possible. And again... .No clue if she saw the guy when she was down here or not.

She did mention the new girl a lot. She said she didn't want to know about us and what we wer doing and I think the stuff she saw that I posted probably affected her a lot. I'm certain she would have no problem doing something with another guy out of "revenge", even though I would never have done anything with the new girl, even meeting her, if she hadn't been bragging about what she was doing. But of course none of that matters.

I keep thinking she'll write any minute. The idea of being near tears and missing her for 6 months... .Even one month... .Hurts so much. I just want her back and that's pretty much all that will fix me. I'm hoping she misses me too and will come to her senses soon. But it feels like a special kind of hell right now. And I would do anything to get out of it

I'm also more than a little angry. I've written an email saying all of this but don't plan to send it. It just seems to stir everything up. Part of me wants to tear into her but I know I'll regret it.

[obliv326]

So I've started a new thread. I really just need some help with this.

So there's been a bit more news. Just really briefly... .She was openly suggesting in a social media forum that she was having a sexual relationship with a man or men. I was finding this out bc a friend of mine is an acquaintance of hers and had caught her in a lie a few months back, and had started informing me of what she was doing. And this goes a little toward answering something PnC had asked... .She didn't know that I knew about what was happening with the other guy. I was being informed bc my friend thought it was bs that she was telling me one thing and doing something else. My feeling on the matter was that it was probably the guy she met down here, and most likely it would go away soon and I would still be there.

A couple things kind of changed recently. First, since she was apparently doing things with other guys, I started looking into my opportunities as well. I actually do fairly well with dating, and I got quite a few. I met someone, and it looked like it had some possibilities. So a couple weeks ago I told her. She was clearly not happy but didn't get overtly upset.

That night, she made some comments on her social media page and my friend told me. So I told her that she had said something. My friend has a position of authority in a certain section of the community that she wants to be active, so she asked to speak to her. I gave her my friends email address and thy started talking.

Also, she did write me the day after I had told her about the new woman and told me that she had not been seeing anyone, just flirting online, and that none of those guys were what I was to her. I thanked her, and told her no one was what she was either.

But she and my friend started writing. At first it was fairly cordial, and she acknowledged that she had not treated me well. Things seemed to have been at least somewhat alleviated.

Then last Tuesday, my friend basically lambasted her for what she did when she came down for my birthday (refresher - she came down, hadn't made plans to see me and didn't tell me how long she was staying. I assumed she had planned to avoid me and gave her an ultimatum which she ignored, then she got together with another guy and immediately gave him more trust than she gave me, and has acted like it meant something ever since instead of just being a stupid rebound thing that happens bc she lowered her standards.) My friend had told her that what she did was a huge sore spot with her, and that while she wanted to smooth things over and that she respected her reaching out and trying to clear things up, that her actions down here had made my friend extremely angry, and it had affected her reputation among other people as well. At first, the PwBPD didn't respond. Then, in a really weird night, she sort of undid all the sort of conciliatory measures she had made, and basically took a lot of effort to lash out at her and, apparently, me.  She had actually sent me a text saying she hoped I had a good day. I had posted some pictures of the new girl on one of my social media sites, and that night she blocked me and the new girl, and put up lots of kind of aggressive posts... .Liking pictures of the guy she met don here. Friending a creepy guy she knew I didn't like, etc. Posting some fairly explicit pictures. it seemed like a lot had gotten to her.

The next morning I wrote and wanted to make sure she was okay. She said she had taken the previous day off work, and was considering whether to move to a different state bc my friend and that part of the community had problems with her. I should also note that she had made a bad impression and was on their radar before she and I became an item. She said she'd write me later that day.

When she did, she basically blamed me for the fact that my friend and the community didn't like her. She acknowledged that it wasn't my fault, but that my connection to her was what had caused the problem and was why she was now in the situation. Of course, like I said, they had problems with her before that... .And they only got angry bc they kept catching her in lies. If she had been honest with me there would have been no problems with them at all... .But of course I didn't say that.

She said that, bc of that, she needed "space"... .Which I'd be giving her for a few weeks. I only talked when she initiated and tried to be positive and validating. But now she said she wanted to cut off contact completely. She agreed that it wasn't fair, and that she cared about me and it would be hard, but it's what she needed to do. And that was the end of that.

The next day, my friend tried to smooth things over, and wrote an email where she said that she had thought they were making progress toward burying the hatchet, but that her actions that week had made everyone very skeptical. She said she would like to keep discussing things and would assume she had made those decisions to act emotionally and impulsively. And she said that she really shouldn't blame me. I had don nothing at all and that we would both be losing someone important to us and it wasn't fair to either of us to blame me for what my friend had done. She offered to speak to her one on one and let it stay between them.

However, if she didn't respond and kept acting in that manner, that my friend would have to presume that she was actually not just immature but kind of dangerous, in that she wanted to lie with impunity and take no responsibility for her actions. And if that was the case, she would be obliged to warn the members of the segment of the community where they were both trying to interact in whatever city she moved.

I got a text from the girl with BPD later that day saying that my friend had threatened to follow her wherever she went if she didn't get back with me. This was just not the case, and I can't see anywhere in the correspondence where that was even implied. But she asked me to make it stop. So I talked to my friend and said that she should just leave her alone. She agreed to for my sake.

I told her, and she said she was grateful and it meant a lot to her. I asked if we were going to talk again, and she said maybe. She had been thinking about a lot of things and needed time to think just on her own. I asked if she was getting space from everyone or just me, and she said everyone. She said my affection, which, again, I hadn't really shown or stated for awhile, was just one part of things that wer smothering her. All I had done was just try to help her when she needed things so she would be able to stay afloat. I even paid for a plane ticket for her to come down and visit, and said she didn't need to plan to see me since she said she needed space. I did tell her that since I paid, though, I wasn't okay with her seeing that guy. If he wanted to see her he could foot that bill.

She did come down, didn't tell me, and I have no evidence that she saw that guy but she did see the friend who introduced them. Granted, at the time she still thought I was with the other girl, but she also knew befor that and hadn't said anything. You'd think, after that caused the biggest problem we had, that she'd at least say something, but no... .

Anyway, back to the conversation after I got my friend off of her... .

She said that maybe we would talk again. She said she wanted to say that yes, eventually, we would but she wanted to just see how she felt after the reflection. I told her that I cared about her and would miss her, and she thanked me but asked me to stop. Oh, also, I had broken up with the other girl in the meantime. She also had a lot of underlying issues that I just couldn't handle after what I'd been through with this girl. Sk I told her that was over.

Again, sh thanked me, said that she knew how I felt but that words didn't mean a whole lot to her. It's funny, since I don't think anyone she's ever known has done more to show her she was important through actions than myself. But whatever. I told her to be good and that I thought we'd talk again soon. She said "when I'm ready to", and I said of course.

That was Friday. I already miss her so much I can't stand it. I have several other girls I'm talking to, and I'm working and exercising, but if anything she's on my mind more than less. I just don't understand how she could even be considering not speaking to me again. I didn't do anything to deserve that. If anything, it's like everyone else gets what I want from her, and all I get is just the stress and blame and bad attitude. I keep hoping that her time away will make all that clear. At least she's never denied that she has feelings and cares for me.

I'm at work today and it's all I can do to not burst into tears. I want to write her and tell her how unfair it all is, and how if someone is angry at her that it's bc of what SHE did herself. The fact that she wouldn't even qcknowledge or speak about if must mean that my friend hit a nerve. I only hope it's bc she does feel incredibly guilty about what she did. The fact that this guy gets to be in her life at all, even though she has told me she doesn't want a relationship and specifically another long distance one, makes me feel a little better. And she told me that all she was doing was flirting, and with a "few people", but she's lied before. I kind of believe her that she was only flirting, but I think that's bc nothing else was possible. And again... .No clue if she saw the guy when she was down here or not.

She did mention the new girl a lot. She said she didn't want to know about us and what we wer doing and I think the stuff she saw that I posted probably affected her a lot. I'm certain she would have no problem doing something with another guy out of "revenge", even though I would never have done anything with the new girl, even meeting her, if she hadn't been bragging about what she was doing. But of course none of that matters.

I keep thinking she'll write any minute. The idea of being near tears and missing her for 6 months... .Even one month... .Hurts so much. I just want her back and that's pretty much all that will fix me. I'm hoping she misses me too and will come to her senses soon. But it feels like a special kind of hell right now. And I would do anything to get out of it

I'm also more than a little angry. I've written an email saying all of this but don't plan to send it. It just seems to stir everything up. Part of me wants to tear into her but I know I'll regret it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

I just don't understand how she could even be considering not speaking to me again. I didn't do anything to deserve that.

That has to hurt to be treated like that. I'm sorry to hear, obliv326. If she is BPD and has a fear of abandonment, has an unstable sense of self, equates feelings with facts, and in general has overwhelming shame and self-loathing, it wouldn't take much to hurt her. You dated another girl and wanted her to find out, so it isn't a stretch to see how she might be unwilling to speak to you from a BPD perspective.

It has the feel of a toxic relationship where she does something that hurts you, and depending on how badly you are hurting, will hurt her back and feel justified. Then there is something resembling a tender cycle where you rescue/save and want her to appreciate you. This will almost inevitably feel like she is indebted, which may trigger feelings of engulfment.

Then you feel distraught that she is gone.

The only way to change these dynamics is to change how you cope with your own difficult feelings and urges. There is no magic formula other than that.

[obliv326]

I don't disagree that it feels pretty toxic. I'm not sure I've done much to hurt her, aside from having talks with her about how what she did made me feel. Now, have I thought about and wanted to do things to hurt her? Yes. Do I think she deserves to feel like garbage for some things she's done? Absolutely.

However, I hate feeling like this. Any pointers on where to start with changing my coping methods? I can't handle this anymore

[livednlearned]

Any pointers on where to start with changing my coping methods? I can't handle this anymore

Do you mean coping methods with her when she is talking to you?

Or coping methods when she is not talking to you.

Either way, usually we get triggered and turn to maladaptive coping methods when we don't have alternative ways of managing strong emotion.

First step is to recognize triggers and watch what your first impulse is. Hit pause. It's not easy, and it's also essential to learn this.

Rescue impulses are a maladaptive coping method. Especially with a BPD person who feels chronically victimized.

So is JADE-ing in any form (justify, argue, defend, explain).

Until learning what triggers you and why, the relationship cycle is likely to continue this way, even if she does appear again.

[obliv326]

Thanks again. That is very useful information. I was trying to take some steps toward dealing with her in conversation, but knowing what to do with myself when she is gone is very valuable too, because I am pretty sure she'll come back.

I do have a question... .Is there any value in putting factual information out there, provided you do it without JADE or invalidating them. For example, explaining to her that, while it seems like the reason she was having issues with my friends was bc of me, letting her know that anyone who caught someone else in a lie woukd tell their friend, and that all she's doing by cutting me out of her life is punishing me, and frankly herself, because my friends aren't going to suddenly forget about her and let things lie if she removes me from her life. In the meantime, I've been more than supportive and helpful, and I don't deserve to be punished... .Esp, again, bc it's not going to get her the result she wants?

Or do I just have to sit here, worry about whether she'll ever call again, and regret every decision I made that might have pushed her away (I know that's part of my coping process but it's going to happen at least for awhile)

[LostInMemories]

Hello Obliv,

I'm very sorry what happened to you. It is indeed very unfair, but that's basically standard dealing with someone with BPD.

I really hope things will work out. I'd love to give advice, but I'm not really in a good position to do so, since I seem to make the worst decisions myself haha.

I have a question though, I had an long distance relationship with my BPDex aswell, and I see a lot of LDR stories on this forum, is it safe to say there's some link between an LDR and ppl with borderline? I have been wondering about this for a while now, and I feel there's some kind of connection (not always of course). I feel like LDR relationships tend to be a lot stronger and intense than 'normal' ones, maybe this attracts people with BPD?

[livednlearned]

knowing what to do with myself when she is gone is very valuable too

Is there any value in putting factual information out there, provided you do it without JADE or invalidating them

.

Often in BPD relationships, the question is whether you want to be right, or you want to get along. This doesn't mean validating the invalid, tho. Sometimes it's about support, empathy, truth (SET), where you lay down a lot of S and E, and then follow up with T. You may need to wait a beat before getting into truth statements. If she is dysregulated, then there's no point, nothing will stick and you could just make things worse.

Having said that, if she's BPD, it's not likely that she will take in anything you mentioned that you want to tell her. BPD goes with a lot of self-loathing and shame. So when you shame her, you may feel righteous and she'll just feel worse. You mentioned in an earlier post that she has a lot of narcissism. In Nina Brown's book Loving the Self-Absorbed, she talks about using "we" statements because most people who are highly narcissistic don't have the ability to hear "you" statements about their bad behavior.

Honestly, she probably would've stepped out of the scene no matter what you did. She got confronted for lying and she feels bad. You're involved. Pointing out the rightness of any of the details seems unlikely to bring her closer and more likely will just drive her further away.

[obliv326]

I understand what you're saying and I'm inclined to agree. What you're saying sounds like exactly what happened... .She was busted for lying and doing something that was really irredeemably mean spirited, selfish and cruel. And what you said was exactly how she put it... .They were causing her problems and I was involved. She even had the awareness to say it wasn't fair to me.

One thing I do find interesting is that even though she almost always acts in a manner consistent with BPD, she often seems to have enough lucidity to know that what she is doing is hurtful, or at least not normal, but is "what she needs/wants". 

What I was going to do was reach out, after a couple weeks, and just see if appealing to that part of her might do something. I would explain that I understand that she feels hurt by what happened, but that I made it go away for her, and in doing so lost my friends. And now it feel like I've lost her too, and that really hurts because I didn't do any of this, or want it, and I feel like I am the one who is being punished. I was wondering whether putting that idea in her head, where she seems to at least have some grasp of logic, might help make me a little less "split black" to her. I mean, the last time we talked, it was at least cordial, and she said that my taking care of the situation with my friend "meant a lot to her". She also told me, when she decided to cut me off completely, that it wasn't easy for her because she cares for me as well.

I'm wondering exactly what her process of "self reflection" will be? Will it really be looking at herself and what she did, and accepting responsibility, which she does seem capable of doing to a point? Or will it just be just justifying what she did to herself until she no longer feels guilt, and then acting out? One positive thing... .In the past, when she has withdrawn from me she has partaken in a lot of damaging and destructive behavior... .Aggressively aexualizing herself, making really poor financial decisions, drinking excessively... .And this time she doesn't seem to be doing so. That, and the fact that she didn't seem angry at me personally so much, admitted she cared, and left the door open, gives me hope that she'll be back.

In the meantime I'm giving her nc, and hoping that she recycles through and stops feeling engulfment. I'm doing better, working on myself, but a large part of feeling even a little better about a situation where I have no control is that I really feel hopeful that she'll be back... .Pretty sure she will, actually. But I do worry about how I'll crash if that hope fades

[obliv326]

So, there's a little news... .

I've been giving her all the space she wants. It's tempting to want to talk and tell her I miss her but I know the engulfment thing is at play and the only way around and out of that is to let her recycle through.

However, something kind of good happened. The other night, she posted something on social media that seems like a solid bit of reflecting. She talked about how hyper sexuality is a symptom of OCD, and that she is pretty sure it's something that has plagued her all her life (to anyone outside of her head, that's pretty clear). She talked about how she has never really ben able to find any kind of satisfaction in that, though, but what she has neve realky had is real emotional and physical affection, and that she may have been missing out on something better.

I feel like this is referring to me, potentially. I made it very clear that I wanted to know everything about her, inside and out. She even referred to the fact that my affection was something that had been a little overwhelming. But it's pretty clear that she is aware of it, and it seems like she's even considering it. And I'm kind of impressed by the reflection. It seems a fairly honest and healthy bit of knowledge she's found there... .And one that will push her away from the other guy, since he was very clearly a "sex first" person.

In the meantime I'm trying to improve myself and not dwell on it too much. Also, she doesn't know that I'm aware of this particular outlet. She's not hiding it, but she doesn't know that I'm aware that she writes there so this wasn't written just for me to see. So it seems like she's a least doing some things to step in the right direction.

Anyway, if anyone can shed some light here id be really appreciative.

Thabks