What is the age of your ex ?

[sflearnignbpd]

40.  I think it gets worse with age.  Her friends claimed they never saw this type of behavior from her.  Her son claimed to have seen it, but never as bad.

[virtus]

My ex is 45... .unmarried, no kids with a string of abusive partners (by her reckoning)... .I was soo different to all the others however  


and now I'm just like them... .

52 exgf, same as above... .

[khibomsis]

Blue my ex was 15 years younger than me. She ST'ed me so can't say what she's like now. Should mention though that my uNBPD mom is 78 and still going strong. Her uNBPD dad lived to be 97 and when he grew too old to physically terrorize his kids and grandkids it just meant he would devote his time to splitting and other forms of psychological abuse. Both intellectually sharp highfunctioning though. What a waste of so much potential.    , khib

[JQ]

Hey Blue,

You asked the question, "o they ever grow out of it".  After I gave this much thought and review I believe your question to be wishful thinking on a NON aka care giver level. We want them to grow out of it, we need them to grow out of it. I'm no different then you or anyone else in these forums. It is a horribly devastating mental illness that destroys not only the person afflicted with it, but their children, parents, s/o.  From one codependent/care giver/perfectionist to another it is simply beyond our control to fix, repair or make perfect.

In the case of some documented medical studies (Harvard among others) have proven that the brain is actually "defective" in it's development. The cause seems to be primarily genetic passed down from parent to child and in some cases this is acerbated by environmental events such as a major PTSD event early in their life but not always.

i wish they would grow out of it ... .but you, me, modern medicine can NOT at this point in time change genome of a person to correct a physical or mental defect.

Harvard Medical School:

Scientists have begun to see how these characteristics are reflected in the brains of people with borderline personality disorder. Some people with this disorder have an exaggerated startle response to unpleasant stimuli. Brain regions involved in managing fear and controlling aggressive responses function differently in people with borderline personality disorder when compared to people without the disorder. Researchers have also discovered distinctive patterns in hormone levels and the immune system in people with the disorder.

It is quite common for people with borderline personality disorder to also have a mood disorder, eating disorder or substance abuse problem. The person may turn to alcohol or drugs to escape from painful, uncontrollable emotions.



Harvard - UofMass study in part says ... .

Heritability and Familiarity

The major BPO twin study showed that genes accounted for 69% of the variance in BPO in a sample of 92 identical and 129 fraternal twins. This is greater than the heritability of major depressive disorder or anxiety disorders and is similar to that for bipolar disorders. Genetic risk factors for BPO are identified but await replication. In 9 family history studies, 12.6% of first-degree relatives of BPO probands had the disorder, a percentage four times higher than probands with other psychiatric conditions. Affective instability, impulsivity, and disturbed interpersonal relationships are more common in first-degree relatives of individuals with BPO compared to individuals with schizophrenia or other personality disorders.


Biological Factors and Pathophvsiologv

Recent data link BPO to both structural and physiological brain abnormalities. Volumetric studies using MRI consistently show decreased volumes in the hippocampus and amygdala of persons with BPO. Functional MRI studies using standardized tests have demonstrated differences in brain areas and functioning between people with BPO and controls


This research suggests that both the affective instability and the interpersonal hypersensitivity seen in BPD have their roots in the sensitivity of the brain's amygdala to negative emotions. In the face of this increased amygdalar activation, persons with BPD demonstrate impaired self-regulatory function in the prefrontal cortex. Clinically, this corresponds to the subjective and observable dysregulation of emotions and behaviors.


Differences in neurotransmitter systems also seem to distinguish individuals with BPD from controls.  Work in this area has focused on the serotonergic [64] and dopaminergic systems. Significant findings have been published regarding both neurotransmitters. For example, research on the dominaregic system has uncovered specific gene variants in people with BPD. 

Most recently, transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) has been used as a tool to study the pathophysiological underpinnings of BPD. In addition to the parasympathetic nervous system differences (discussed below; see, TMS research suggests that BPD is associated with cortical inhibition deficits.

Taken all together, a large emergent body of research-based evidence in multiple modalities strongly suggests that a biological basis underlies BPD. This assertion is underscored by consistent findings that there are similar differences among individuals with BPD versus controls with respect to neuroanatomy, functioning and pathology.

All this means is that their brain is physically broken, genetically broken at the gene level. Until they can develop a means to correct this the BEST anyone can ever hope for us a level of "MANAGEMENT" of their behavior ... .if there is a management level at all.

So this "clinical" answer in addition to those who have experienced would indicate ... .NO they do not ever grow out of it.

I feel for my exBPDgf, both of them. I know both mothers were mentally ill and it was hid from public eye for their entire life. I now know that my last exBPDgf has 2 children and I can only hope that it stops with this generation ... .but that is wishful thinking and we have done enough of that. It's a cold smack in the face of reality, but in a way I feel fortunate that our r/s has gone it's separate ways.  I can't imagine trying to "manage" my BPDgf/w then at the same time "manage" a step child with this mental illness.  Things happen for a reason Blue ... .

J

J

[spooktor]

Mine ex girlfriend is 41... .I am turning 50!... .it's interesting to see most of the ages listed are similar. I thought that the behaviour would diminish with age, due to the simple reason, that as you get older ( and are with a similar age partner ), the factors determining an ' out of the blue finishing of the relation would lessen... .I mean, an attractive girl in her 20, 30, 40's still could have a large amount of prey to catch, but if you are a couple in their fifties, surely your fear of abandonment lessens due to the effort required and the non BPD's market place becomes so much smaller too, so why would he abandon the BPD sufferer?

I hope that makes sense?... .and people understand what I'm trying to describe? :-)

[WoundedBibi]

Late thirties.


I think with age the intensity of their emotions lessens -which should make them easier to live with- but this is 'compensated' by the by then enormous string of negative experiences (failed relationships, lost jobs) that make them more bitter about life and people, which makes them more difficult to live with. So the end result is either 0 in growing out of it, or minus 0.

(My uBPD cousin who killed himself last year was 54 at the time and looking at his life I think his behaviour got worse as he grew older as his life spiraled further and further out of control and he could not see a way out anymore or a way to get supply again as he was bankrupt, losing his looks, losing friends and family members (I went NC with him years ago, his eldest children didn't want to see him and he was denied to see his youngest), unemployed, had gotten in trouble with the law in the last years due to his alcohol abuse (hit and run while DUI) so not likely to get a new job, heavily in debt, and probably his health had started to fail. The tipping point for him was one more "pay up or else" letter regarding one of his debts. And he chose my birthday to do it. Ultimate attempt to try and hurt me for feeling I had abandoned him.)

[FannyB]

Late 40s.  Mother was probably BPD (if not bi-polar) and now youngest child has experienced difficulties and BPD has been mentioned as a possibility by her therapist.

BPD - the gift that goes on giving!


Fanny

[thrownforaloop]

Mine is 27. Met her when we were both 22. She told me about how she had cheated on all her previous boyfriends---don't know why I thought she'd treat me differently. Yikes.

[once removed]

some more info for this discussion:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819124/

The main finding of interest was that the impulsive and suicidal behavior criteria were significantly affected by the interaction of PD group and age. For the BPD group, impulsive and suicidal behaviors decreased with age (>age 40 and >age 30, respectively) when compared to OPD and NoPD groups. These findings correspond to the discussion in research and clinical literatures regarding the behavioral “burn out” of patients with BPD (Stone, 1993). Specifically, these findings provide empirical support for the hypothesis that these patients engage in fewer impulsive and suicidal behaviors as they age.

Secondly, emotional distress was highest in the BPD group followed by those with another personality disorder. Those with no PD had the lowest scores of emotional distress. Age did not affect level of emotional distress. This finding suggests that even though older adults with BPD may engage in fewer impulsive behaviors, these individuals report experiencing similar levels of depression and anxiety when compared to their younger counterparts. Additionally, we can interpret these findings as giving us insight into the longitudinal course of the disorder. In younger years, those with BPD are likely to engage in self-harm and other dyscontrolled behaviors, such as substance use, binge drinking, and risky sex. As these individuals age, they are less likely to engage in these behaviors but are just as likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. It does not appear that behavioral control alleviates depressive and anxious symptoms. This is consistent with Linehan's description of “quiet desperation” that individuals with BPD experience after they have effectively learned to manage their impulsive behaviors (Linehan, 1993).

Given the cross-sectional nature of this study, conclusions regarding the course of BPD and symptoms of distress are tentative since measurement did not occur longitudinally within individuals. Thus, these findings may not reflect an actual decrease in symptom patterns over the early- to middle-adult lifespan. It is possible that the older group as a whole may have been less impulsive and suicidal than the other age groups. Nonetheless, these findings are consistent with clinical impressions regarding the course of BPD symptoms.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/i-hate-you-dont-leave-me/201308/the-borderline-grows-older-0

In one study (Journal of Psychiatric Research, 7/19/2013), both groups of symptomatic patients exhibited high levels of functional impairment and accompanying other diagnoses, such as depression or substance abuse. Younger adults (age 25 or younger) tended to be more impulsive, self-injuring, substance abusing, and more emotionally labile. Older adults (45 and older) reported greater social dysfunction, more lifetime hospitalizations, and feelings of chronic emptiness.

more discussion and studies here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=37775.10


ps. "non" is shorthand for "non BPD" or "non personality disordered" - no more no less.

[Hadlee]

In younger years, those with BPD are likely to engage in self-harm and other dyscontrolled behaviors, such as substance use, binge drinking, and risky sex. As these individuals age, they are less likely to engage in these behaviors but are just as likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. It does not appear that behavioral control alleviates depressive and anxious symptoms.

This rings true in the case of my ex (late 30's).  He was heavily into risky sexual behavior, drugs and was a self confessed alcoholic in his 20's then mellowed out in this regard once he hit 30.  :)epression, anxiety and paranoia increased in his 30's as well.

[troisette]

Thank you for posting the article once removed.

As these individuals age, they are less likely to engage in these behaviors but are just as likely to experience high levels of psychological distress. It does not appear that behavioral control alleviates depressive and anxious symptoms. This is consistent with Linehan's description of “quiet desperation” that individuals with BPD experience after they have effectively learned to manage their impulsive behaviors (Linehan, 1993).

That describes my ex, in his sixties. He expends a lot of energy maintaining his mask. Although he still displays some impulsivity by a persistent need to buy things via the internet. As though possessions will help his emptiness.

Sad for him.