Trying to understand my dads narcissism

[unicorn2014]

A person who has narcissism has a delusional self importance but my dad doesn't have that. Instead he applies that to my mom. When he texts me it is pictures of my mom. When he talks to me it is to tell me how great my mother is. It's been like this my whole life. I had to block my mother on Mother's Day weekend because she thought I was telling everyone that she abused me when in her view of reality I abused her . She managed to convince her sister of this As well as lead my dad to believe I was the one with the bad behavior. When my partner ignorantly tried to tell my father about my PTSD my dad told my partner about how he had to call the polce on me when I was a kid. My parents don't acknowledge the fact a teacher filed a child abuse report on my mother or that a youth shelter took me to a suicide clinic or that I had to seek out psychiatric help because of how my husband was treating me or that my daughter has a substance abuse problem. They blame me for everything .

[Notwendy]

I think trying to understand someone's distorted thinking might not be possible, but we can detach from it. As to the narcissism, consider that when people are enmeshed, they don't have strong boundaries. Your mom is an extension of your father. She has to be wonderful because he is   and she and he are one enmeshed entity.

In many families, one child becomes the scapegoat- for the members to be wonderful, there usually is someone they blame. Often the scapegoat is the truth teller, the one who doesn't go along with the family "rules" that all is well. So welcome to the club.

My mother's FOO is like that. They used to send me emails about how wonderful she is. They also say terrible things about me. She has painted me so black to them over the years, they don't even know who I am.

Getting together with them is one big wonderful fest. They talk about all the wonderful things they are doing, how wonderful so and so is. Yet anything I or my family does is met with scrutiny. If we go on vacation- " oh I hear that place has bad reviews" or my kids show an interest in a topic it gets criticized.

They don't define me. I can't control what they think. Also, there is no point in defending something that isn't true. It did hurt my feelings for a while, but now, I don't take it personally, because it has nothing to do with me. While it is understandable to want to understand, sometimes there really isn't more beyond the dysfunction. Live according to your own reality and let them have theirs.

[unicorn2014]

I think trying to understand someone's distorted thinking might not be possible, but we can detach from it. As to the narcissism, consider that when people are enmeshed, they don't have strong boundaries. Your mom is an extension of your father. She has to be wonderful because he is   and she and he are one enmeshed entity.

In many families, one child becomes the scapegoat- for the members to be wonderful, there usually is someone they blame. Often the scapegoat is the truth teller, the one who doesn't go along with the family "rules" that all is well. So welcome to the club.

My mother's FOO is like that. They used to send me emails about how wonderful she is. They also say terrible things about me. She has painted me so black to them over the years, they don't even know who I am.

Getting together with them is one big wonderful fest. They talk about all the wonderful things they are doing, how wonderful so and so is. Yet anything I or my family does is met with scrutiny. If we go on vacation- " oh I hear that place has bad reviews" or my kids show an interest in a topic it gets criticized.

They don't define me. I can't control what they think. Also, there is no point in defending something that isn't true. It did hurt my feelings for a while, but now, I don't take it personally, because it has nothing to do with me. While it is understandable to want to understand, sometimes there really isn't more beyond the dysfunction. Live according to your own reality and let them have theirs.

Thank you Not Wendy, I wanted to make a separate post about how seeing my mother on Facebook with her grandson made me feel, my brother's girlfriend posted the picture. My mom was never involved in my daughter's life when she was my nephew's age (9). Not only that my mother totally acted inappropriately towards my daughter over spring break, not telling her how to get to her work, blaming her for taking advantage of the fact that no one knew where she was supposed to really be. I made the mistake of telling my mother that my daughter had gotten high. My mother told me that she wanted nothing to do with me and my daughter even though she supposedly liked my drug dealing ex. Its all very confusing.

I still find it hard to accept that my father idealizes my mother especially when he's self deprecating and downplays himself. It really messes with my mind.

I appreciate your advice not to try to understand the distorted thinking.

What's particularly difficult is that I attend a very family focused church and so its hard to separate myself from my parents. Yesterday when I was talking to a parishioner about my daughter's substance abuse problem she naturally assumed my parents were involved and cared. I even get that attitude occasionally from people in recovery, but it is not as frequent in that community.

My father also takes no responsibility for how his substance abuse affected me because he did most of it before I was born, and therefore how his substance abuse affected his granddaughter. My ex was his dealer for a period of time but my dad has made no amends to me whatsoever. He acts like he doesn't understand drug addiction when it comes to my daughter.

It is all so very frustrating.

[Notwendy]

Yes it is, and I think it takes some time to grieve it. Ultimately though, I realized it was my grief at not having the kind of relationship I wished for with my family, not theirs. They are who their are, and they seemed to not grieve it at all.

After my father died, my mother and her FOO were cruel and cold to me. I probably spent hours sobbing over how could they treat me like that after I just lost my father. That seemed pretty low. But it was only that way to me. I couldn't do that to someone else, but they could, and they did. I was the only one who was upset or felt a loss over them, they had their own ideas. Apparently their relationship with me didn't mean as much to them. Not easy to realize but it is what it is. We are different people.

Your parents are who they are. They may care about you but this is all they are capable of. Wishing they were different is hurtful but that is something you can change on your part.

Someone said, if someone shows you who they are- believe them. And so I did. That doesn't mean I understand why they are like they are, but I don't have to cry over it. So, I let it go, emotionally.

Yes you would think a church would be loving and caring, but while religion sets high ideals for people- it is up to the people to carry those out. Just because someone attends a church doesn't mean they are able or willing to carry out the ideals all the time.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Not Wendy, the parishioner I was talking to you yesterday wasn't at fault, she was trying to be helpful, but it was very embarrassing to me to have to explain my family to her. I actually ended up going over some responses with my partner that I could use next time people asked me about my daughter. Its very shameful to me to have such dysfunctional parents yet I also know how people's minds works, I've had strangers and friends alike blame me for my parents dysfunction as if something I did caused it. The most shocking place this came from was someone I knew in recovery who thought that I must have done something wrong to cause my father's narcissism.

Having dysfunctional parents is like a compound fracture: first you suffer the initial break which is your childhood but then the bone breaks through the skin when as an adult you are constantly subjected to normal, healthy families and are reminded how dysfunctional yours is.

One of the things I am still processing is something my ex mother in law said to me when I first met her, she asked me why I wanted to be with her son instead of with someone of my own race. I didn't value myself enough at the time to know she was being abusive to me. There were other incidents with my ex husband that indicated that being with him was not healthy for me from the beginning but again I didn't value myself enough to see these things. I met him a couple of years after I had moved out of my parents house and even though I had achieved independence I was still very hurt from my childhood and adolescence.

[Notwendy]

Yes it is embarrassing to explain but it is their behaviors. It's hard to know why your ex MIL said that. But if it was meant to be abusive- it's still her words not yours. It can hurt. But we can also decide to let go of reacting to mean words.

Eventually though I think we have to decide just how much of our thinking and feeling we want to let other people occupy and how long. Some people are just not kind. There even is a book called "Nasty People" that I read. But ultimately I don't want to spend time thinking about them. I hope you can arrive at this point too.

[Pilpel]

My parents don't acknowledge the fact a teacher filed a child abuse report on my mother or that a youth shelter took me to a suicide clinic or that I had to seek out psychiatric help because of how my husband was treating me or that my daughter has a substance abuse problem. They blame me for everything.

Yikes.  Your parents sound charming.  I recently read "People of the Lie" by Scott Peck.  One thing I thought was interesting about it was that he describes people who can feel and own their own anxiety, shame, and guilt were normal and capable of emotional growth.  The people who tend to cause the most dysfunction are what he calls the "people of the lie."  They are focused on projecting an image of perfection, so they don't own the guilt, shame, and anxiety that they should experience but instead project it onto the people around them.  So a child that doesn't go along with their program is going to be a convenient scapegoat.   You must be the one with the problem, because there's nothing wrong with them.  I think everyone has a tendency to do this to some degree or another.  But it's a way of life for a person with a personality disorder.

The person with a PD in my life is my SIL.  I was totally thrown when my brother first proposed because she didn't hide her PD like some people are capable of.  But eventually I realized that I saw in her some of the dysfunction that I was familiar with growing up.  My brother was definitely my mom's golden child.  She coddled him for years.  But she also doesn't really have the capacity to see her kids as individuals.  So somehow it makes sense that my brother married a narcissist. 

[unicorn2014]

Yes it is embarrassing to explain but it is their behaviors. It's hard to know why your ex MIL said that. But if it was meant to be abusive- it's still her words not yours. It can hurt. But we can also decide to let go of reacting to mean words.

Eventually though I think we have to decide just how much of our thinking and feeling we want to let other people occupy and how long. Some people are just not kind. There even is a book called "Nasty People" that I read. But ultimately I don't want to spend time thinking about them. I hope you can arrive at this point too.

I requested that book.

This reminds me of Al-Anon's keep the focus on yourself.

I got triggered by seeing a picture of my mother on Facebook with my nephew at a boy scout ceremony. My nephew is 9. I do not remember my mother participating in my daughter's life at all when she was 9 and my daughter definitely did not have a substance abuse problem at that time. My mother did not want to take the time or make the effort to come see us. She definitely did not attend my daughter's 5th grade graduation which would be the same age at which my nephew is now. Of course if I were to point this out to my mother she would just get abusive.

On another point I am on the verge of withdrawing from my probate case. I did not want this and my aunt has hired a really nasty attorney that I do not want to deal with. This case was my brother and my father's idea with pressure from my mother. One of the reasons I had for doing this was my daughter but my daughter upon seeing the distress this case caused me said to me that I did not have to do this . I am willing to deal with my mother, father and brother disassociating themselves from me. Now that I know that my daughter does not have an expectation for me to fight to reinstate my original portion I feel free to let go of it.

[unicorn2014]

My parents don't acknowledge the fact a teacher filed a child abuse report on my mother or that a youth shelter took me to a suicide clinic or that I had to seek out psychiatric help because of how my husband was treating me or that my daughter has a substance abuse problem. They blame me for everything.

Yikes.  Your parents sound charming.  I recently read "People of the Lie" by Scott Peck.  One thing I thought was interesting about it was that he describes people who can feel and own their own anxiety, shame, and guilt were normal and capable of emotional growth.  The people who tend to cause the most dysfunction are what he calls the "people of the lie."  They are focused on projecting an image of perfection, so they don't own the guilt, shame, and anxiety that they should experience but instead project it onto the people around them.  So a child that doesn't go along with their program is going to be a convenient scapegoat.   You must be the one with the problem, because there's nothing wrong with them.  I think everyone has a tendency to do this to some degree or another.  But it's a way of life for a person with a personality disorder.

The person with a PD in my life is my SIL.  I was totally thrown when my brother first proposed because she didn't hide her PD like some people are capable of.  But eventually I realized that I saw in her some of the dysfunction that I was familiar with growing up.  My brother was definitely my mom's golden child.  She coddled him for years.  But she also doesn't really have the capacity to see her kids as individuals.  So somehow it makes sense that my brother married a narcissist. 

I will look that book up as well, I enjoyed the road less traveled.

PD run rampant through my FOO like weeds. My father does not like my brother's girlfriend. He hasn't spoken to her since she escorted my brother, father, and I to our initial meet and greet with our attorney. My father is the one who should be fighting to restore his original portion of the estate but our attorney said my father was so nasty to his mother that there was no point in fighting it. Now that my aunt's attorney has demanded I prove my relationship to my grandmother and my daughter's relationship to my grandmother I want no part in this. I find it sickening. My aunt knows that there was a relationship there. It is apparent she has a PD as did my deceased grandmother. People have said about my aunt and my grandmother that they both had problems. I want no part in this family dysfunction.

[Notwendy]

It is unfortunate and in many cases probably unfair, but sometimes we have to choose between engaging them to get what is ours ( money, inheritance) and taking the loss for the choice of disengaging with them.

This isn't just with family. Sometimes there is a disordered business partner, and one considers taking the loss to dissolve the relationship vs engaging in a prolonged legal ( and expensive ) battle. I imagine divorces can be similar.

In my case, the situation was not financial but very sentimental. My mother and her FOO took full possession of my father's belongings and refused to speak to me about them. None of this had anything to do with money, but the grief of wondering if my father had disowned me, or if this was their doing.  

This was a bottom line for me. I do not like to take victim perspective, but realizing that these people were so self absorbed to do this, at this time, made me realize I didn't want much to do with them. I had to let go of my attachment to anything material, as well as grieve the loss of the relationships- realizing that there really was not much to lose- the attachment to them was on my part. Yes, it seems overwhelming to imagine a whole lot of people as disordered, but perhaps it makes more sense to consider them as enmeshed- not all disordered but sharing the pattern of dysfunctional families. Whatever it is, I didn't want to play that game with them. This also meant not being reactive to them. While we are not in "warm fuzzy" contact, I do see them occasionally at family events. I am polite. I only share news with them that I don't care who knows " Child's soccer team won".

Getting triggered is our problem. It is important to accept that their choices are not about us. My mother will give the kids a gift, give the same gift to her nieces or nephews, the hairdresser, anyone. The trigger is us making meaning of it " she didn't spend that time with my D". It isn't about you.

I want to say to you- do yourself a favor and let them go emotionally- yes they may all be disordered, but you have the chance to not be part of it. But I know that isn't easy and can take time.

[unicorn2014]

It is unfortunate and in many cases probably unfair, but sometimes we have to choose between engaging them to get what is ours ( money, inheritance) and taking the loss for the choice of disengaging with them.

In this case the probate case was not my idea, I even tried to leave it, but was urged not to by my attorneys and my brother. Its not actually my brother that's the problem. I don't have enough energy to fight for my inheritance however I will have to find it.

This isn't just with family. Sometimes there is a disordered business partner, and one considers taking the loss to dissolve the relationship vs engaging in a prolonged legal ( and expensive ) battle. I imagine divorces can be similar.

I did create and manage a sole proprietorship for my husband and when his disorder became too much for me first I closed the business and then I divorced him, however in my case there was no prolonged legal battle. There is being shunned by him and being judged by my mother.

Yes, it seems overwhelming to imagine a whole lot of people as disordered, but perhaps it makes more sense to consider them as enmeshed- not all disordered but sharing the pattern of dysfunctional families. Whatever it is, I didn't want to play that game with them. This also meant not being reactive to them. While we are not in "warm fuzzy" contact, I do see them occasionally at family events. I am polite. I only share news with them that I don't care who knows " Child's soccer team won".

I like the differentiation between enmeshed and everyone is disordered. I also like the "keeping it light, bright and polite" as I learned in the rooms of recovery. I need to learn to do that with my mother. I made a BIG mistake to share with her my daughter's "bad" behavior over spring break. She ended up blaming me for my daughter's "bad" behavior, shaming me for my "bad" behavior as a teenager, and taking no responsibility for her contribution to the problem (not telling me she told my daughter to meet her at work, not telling my daughter how to get to her work). On top of that my mother judged my daughter's friend's mother for taking them to a hotel for a fun night out on the city. My mother NEVER did anything like that for me much less me and a friend.

Getting triggered is our problem. It is important to accept that their choices are not about us. My mother will give the kids a gift, give the same gift to her nieces or nephews, the hairdresser, anyone. The trigger is us making meaning of it " she didn't spend that time with my D". It isn't about you.

Yes getting back to seeing my mother on Facebook with my nephew, yes I felt hurt by this. My mother never attended any events in my daughter's life when she was 9 years old. She didn't even attend her 5th grade graduation. It was too inconvenient for her to come because we live in another city and my nephew lives in my mother's city. Of course I can't point that out to my mother because she will either make excuses or tell me how awful I am.

I want to say to you- do yourself a favor and let them go emotionally- yes they may all be disordered, but you have the chance to not be part of it. But I know that isn't easy and can take time.

In this case its my aunt who is the problem and everyone is urging me to fight her so I will. There are other people on my mind right now that aren't a part of my family.

I do have a situation coming up with an ex brother in law which I think I will make a separate post about.