FINALLY...

[sanemom]

This may sound small, but it feels huge. DD13 was telling me yesterday how BPD mom lies to the kids, and I told her to not talk like that because she is their mom, and they love her. Then she told me, "It's true. DSS18 said it himself. He told me that doesn't believe what she is saying, and that he wants the drama to stop."

Just to know that he gets it is huge... .it has been a long time coming, but I think the CPS thing made it more than obvious (that is when my DD13 started realizing it, too).  Now I wonder if he realizes how many other things she has told them that are lies... .

Of course, that leaves DSS15 and DSD19.  The funny thing is that I would have guessed that DSS18 would have been the last to figure it out because in general, he is much more gullible and trusting than the other two.

[Thunderstruck]

DSS18 sounds like he hasn't been alienated as badly as the other two.

SD11 knows that her mom lies but she does something similar, she makes a choice to believe the lies. It's very frustrating for us. I have heard her attempt to call her mom out before, and all she gets are gaslighting and more lies. But she chooses to believe the excuses/gaslighting/lies, because it makes her feel better.

[sanemom]

DSS18 sounds like he hasn't been alienated as badly as the other two.

SD11 knows that her mom lies but she does something similar, she makes a choice to believe the lies. It's very frustrating for us. I have heard her attempt to call her mom out before, and all she gets are gaslighting and more lies. But she chooses to believe the excuses/gaslighting/lies, because it makes her feel better.

That is it--on some level, I am sure they know they are lies, but on another level, they are choosing to believe them. I am trying to wrap my head around why it would make them feel better to believe that their dad is a drug addict?  Because they are so desperate to believe that BPD mom doesn't lie to them?

It is probably only DSS15 who believes that at this point, and I am wondering if he is trying to believe it so he feels justified in lying to CPS for his BPD mom.

[Nope]

That is it--on some level, I am sure they know they are lies, but on another level, they are choosing to believe them. I am trying to wrap my head around why it would make them feel better to believe that their dad is a drug addict?  Because they are so desperate to believe that BPD mom doesn't lie to them?

It is probably only DSS15 who believes that at this point, and I am wondering if he is trying to believe it so he feels justified in lying to CPS for his BPD mom.

I agree. There is such a thing, especially for teenagers (who aren't the best at apologizing), as a point-of-no-return. Where the cost of owning up to a screw up is so high because they've done something so screwed up that they literally have to live in the fiction that they didn't screw up at all. On top of that if he accepts the fact that he got duped into making his innocent father look like a drug addict then the person who gave birth to him is an awful human being who would lie to him, manipulate him, and try to destroy his father's life out of her own sick need for control. There is simply too much riding on the lies. The best thing you guys can do for this kid if/when he comes back will simply be to forgive him. If I was in your shoes I'd start my emotional work around that now. Because it'd take me a long time to get there.

[sanemom]

That is it--on some level, I am sure they know they are lies, but on another level, they are choosing to believe them. I am trying to wrap my head around why it would make them feel better to believe that their dad is a drug addict?  Because they are so desperate to believe that BPD mom doesn't lie to them?

It is probably only DSS15 who believes that at this point, and I am wondering if he is trying to believe it so he feels justified in lying to CPS for his BPD mom.

I agree. There is such a thing, especially for teenagers (who aren't the best at apologizing), as a point-of-no-return. Where the cost of owning up to a screw up is so high because they've done something so screwed up that they literally have to live in the fiction that they didn't screw up at all. On top of that if he accepts the fact that he got duped into making his innocent father look like a drug addict then the person who gave birth to him is an awful human being who would lie to him, manipulate him, and try to destroy his father's life out of her own sick need for control. There is simply too much riding on the lies. The best thing you guys can do for this kid if/when he comes back will simply be to forgive him. If I was in your shoes I'd start my emotional work around that now. Because it'd take me a long time to get there.

We have a court date this Thursday asking for DSS15 back--the counselor is saying that he needs a protective period without BPD mom.  We will see if the judge is brave enough to do that; we are going to have to prepare for either outcome.

[ForeverDad]

And what if BM files an appeal, objection or seeks reconsideration?  Can you get an order that makes it effective immediately rather than wait weeks on hold to determine whether an appeal, objection or reconsideration is filed?  Maybe get "emergency" included in there somewhere so that any change is effective immediately and not "pending" whether or not the court struggle continues for even more months?

A couple years ago I went through an 18 month ordeal when seeking majority time, I already had sole custody.  We had the 2 day trial in mid-October, in late December the order was issued but was not "in effect" until at least two weeks had passed, an unadvertised delay waiting to see if either of us would file an objection or whatever.

[Nope]

A couple years ago I went through an 18 month ordeal when seeking majority time, I already had sole custody.  We had the 2 day trial in mid-October, in late December the order was issued but was not "in effect" until at least two weeks had passed, an unadvertised delay waiting to see if either of us would file an objection or whatever.

I think the rules on this are drastically different depending on where you are and it's important to find out what can be done in your jurisdiction. For instance  I was floored when Sanemom said that BM could hold things up simple by not signing the order. I'd not heard of that ever being something that mattered in any jurisdiction before.  In my own case, the magistrate filed the order as an "interim order" so that it took effect immediately.

[sanemom]

A couple years ago I went through an 18 month ordeal when seeking majority time, I already had sole custody.  We had the 2 day trial in mid-October, in late December the order was issued but was not "in effect" until at least two weeks had passed, an unadvertised delay waiting to see if either of us would file an objection or whatever.

I think the rules on this are drastically different depending on where you are and it's important to find out what can be done in your jurisdiction. For instance  I was floored when Sanemom said that BM could hold things up simple by not signing the order. I'd not heard of that ever being something that mattered in any jurisdiction before.  In my own case, the magistrate filed the order as an "interim order" so that it took effect immediately.

Our order was "in effect" immediately, but you can't file contempt on an order that isn't signed around here.  Nor did we have any proof of what the order was in the first place.  In a neighboring county, the attorney could have just forced it to be entered in court; our county requires cooperation from the other attorney (which is ridiculous).

I am not even sure what we are doing at the next hearing--it sounded like he was going to ignore the last order because "she isn't following it anyway... .why waste the court's time?" (is the part I overheard the judge say).  

I still have these dumb moments when I try to get into her head.  Is she going to try to behave before court?  She actually scheduled a counseling appointment for next week so maybe.  Will she be sending DSS15 for Father's Day weekend?  Not sure why I bother... .I just don't get what possessed her to push the judge's buttons.  He made it very clear that she was in a very "precarious position" in November and better follow the order.