NC vs. ST and/or Painting Black

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Honestly, I think that's probably where my struggle with all of this stems from. I just slammed the door on her without any real explanation other than: "I'm tired of being abused, I'm done and outta here."

If it makes you feel any better, that's more than I got. I got a one-line sarcastic email with no reference to ceasing communication, and then nothing.

In any case, I agree with you: I think he did what he did to stop the pain. Being in contact with me was just too much for him. There was a lot of shame there, If he had the resources to disengage in a compassionate way, I truly believe he would have, because who wants even more shame? Making me the bad guy so he could ghost was probably just a primitive defense.

Seeing it from this angle helps me depersonalize his actions.

[steelwork]

Honestly, I think that's probably where my struggle with all of this stems from. I just slammed the door on her without any real explanation other than: "I'm tired of being abused, I'm done and outta here."

If it makes you feel any better, that's more than I got. I got a one-line sarcastic email with no reference to ceasing communication, and then nothing.

In any case, I agree with you: I think he did what he did to stop the pain. Being in contact with me was just too much for him. There was a lot of shame there, If he had the resources to disengage in a compassionate way, I truly believe he would have, because who wants even more shame? Making me the bad guy so he could ghost was probably just a primitive defense.

Seeing it from this angle helps me depersonalize his actions.

[Meili]

I'm very happy that it helped, even if just a little bit.

Perhaps all of my ranting about all of this is borne from my own shame of handling the situation with the only tool that I had left for me at the time; to abruptly go NC.

In my case, just like your pwBPD, I acted from a primal state that I'm not viewing as immature (I'm not saying that anyone else who goes NC is being immature, just that I was!).

Even though my intent was a permanent exit from the r/s, I did it in a manner that was fueled by anger and pain; in essence, immaturity. I let go of one of the defining traits that I hold dear, my compassion for others. I hurt the person that I loved (albeit out of self-preservation) without even a glimmer of thought about what I was doing.

There is so much talk that flies around these boards about the emotional immaturity of a pwBPD; and yet, my action was based on that same maturity level. Again, I'm not saying that applies to anyone other than myself.

[steelwork]

There is so much talk that flies around these boards about the emotional immaturity of a pwBPD; and yet, my action was based on that same maturity level. Again, I'm not saying that applies to anyone other than myself.

I cringe remembering some of the incredibly immature things I did. The whole relationship was immature, from soup to nuts. I guess 50 isn't too old to grow up.

[Meili]

Yes, exactly! Maybe it's fitting that mine ended in such an immature fashion since it was that way throughout. Live and learn I guess. (that doesn't make it feel any better though!)

[HoneyB33]

Well Meili the difference is that reality is at play here. Just because my ex thinks that I somehow hurt her, doesn't mean that I have. That's not to say she doesn't feel how she feels, but that doesn't mean I caused that pain. The difference is that one of these reactions is based in reality, and the other is not. The TRUTH is that my ex abused me, and that I did not abuse her. The truth is what matters. Should a person be subjected to a false reality? So should I walk around like I am an abuser, and a person with BPD because my ex accused me of that? There's a line. Just because these ppl perceive things a certain way, doesn't mean that we need to respond how they want us to. And we're certainly doing them no favors in letting them believe these lies by feeding into them.

I think in a way you want to see that compassion has an effect in this, and I can really relate to that. But the truth is, if a person doesn't try to take responsibility and make changes in their own lives, our compassion has very little effect. In fact, it can often encourage their very destructive behavior. I was so compassionate to my ex, and all it really taught her was to act more entitled. She became worse in her next relationship. I can place a good seed into the ground, but if that soil is "dead", the seed won't grow. Being in a relationship with a Bpd is a place where I think most of us have to learn where no matter how much care or compassion we have in our hearts, it can only make a real difference in ppl's lives who are truly trying. If we keep trying to pour out "compassion" to ppl who are not taking responsibility in their lives, all we are teaching them is that they can continue to act this way, and someone with a good heart will come by and spoon feed them. The world does need good ppl, compassionate ppl. So why should they waste themselves, exhaust themselves, trying to help ppl who will literally not lift a pinking to help themselves? We are not teaching the world to act more with love, we are teaching the world that you can sit on your butt, complain, have issues, and everyone will cater to you, while you abuse them and call them "not good enough".

I honestly think you see this kind of slanted. You're looking at all your effort, all that you should be capable of doing, but what about them? Honestly, I looked at things like this a lot too. NC took me so long because I felt like I was hurting them. But the reason we go NC is because these relationships are not equal. These ppl are hurting, yes. But I spent my whole relationship with this person trying to not trigger their fears of rejection. And all it did was lower me into a hole that they proudly put the lid on. Talk about sociopathic ppl? My ex relished my pain. She relished making afraid. When I finally couldn't just keep giving and giving, and needed for me? She punished me as much as she could, and enjoyed it. It made her feel good about herself. So yep, she definitely meets my NC criteria.

[steelwork]

I want to say one last thing: I'm sorry it's eating away at you, how you went no-contact, and I know in a perfect world you would have done it differently. Speaking for myself, I did not have the common sense to break off contact myself. I was still thinking, "Where there's contact there's hope." (I didn't realize yet how damaged that guy is.) But 4, 5, even 10 months later, even if I still wished passionately that my ex would get in touch and say, "Hey, sorry about how I did that, here's why," etc., the renewed contact of an explanation/apology would have done me more harm than good.

Anyhow, don't beat yourself up. You did the best you could.

[Meili]

Well Meili the difference is that reality is at play here.

Well, it has been said (and for good reason too) that each person has their own version of reality. What you see is reality to you, what I see is reality to me. Are they the same. Nope. We each view the world from our own perspective and through our own filters. It is that perspective and those filters that create reality for us.

Just because my ex thinks that I somehow hurt her, doesn't mean that I have.

Yes, to her, that's exactly what it means.

Of course, I agree with you; it doesn't have to mean that to you.

But the truth is, if a person doesn't try to take responsibility and make changes in their own lives, our compassion has very little effect.

Without disputing that it can have the opposite effect as you said, I do dispute that having compassion for a person that isn't actively attempting to change their life and take responsibility for his/her own actions can have a strong effect. There are many cases where people do not have the strength, tools, or courage to take responsibility or effectuate change. Heck! This board is filled with such people! Yet, we treat them with compassion and try to help them find the things that they need.

I honestly think you see this kind of slanted. You're looking at all your effort, all that you should be capable of doing, but what about them?

Yep, that's exactly what I'm doing; but I don't see it as slanted. Ya see, I know that I cannot change another person. I am not in control of what my, or anyone else's for that matter, pwBPD. All that I'm in control of are my own actions and decisions. What they chose to do is completely on them. Does that mean that I can't be compassionate (from a distance in this case) toward my x? Certainly not!

But the reason we go NC is because these relationships are not equal.

Now this I will wholly dispute. Each of us participated in our respective romantic or platonic... .aka chosen r/s (FOO issues are completely different mind you, they are not chosen). Each of us was responsible for 50% of what happened. That is by definition equality.

I've read so much in your posts on this thread about what your x did to you, but you were there, you took part. She didn't do it in a vacuum.

My ex relished my pain. She relished making afraid.

I'm sorry that you were with someone like that. It is my understanding that most pwBPD aren't like that however. They have a very deep, caring, and loving side. They inflict pain out of fear, not for enjoyment. That is a totally different ball game. That had to be a horrible place for you to live.

[Meili]

Thank you Steel. I'm not beating myself or being eaten up about how I went NC. It isn't how I'd have chosen to go about things, but it is what it is.

Really, my point when all this started was that it appears to me that we are applying different labels to the exact same actions and feeling good about ourselves (well, at least not demonizing ourselves) as a result.

Both sets of actions are borne of protection for the self. Yet, one is looked at as bad and the other good.

It is a hypocrisy that I cannot understand.

[once removed]

compassion and responsibility need not be pitted against each other.

on paper, a relationship is a series of interactions; actions, reactions. its a given that the relationship was dysfunctional. its a given that we did the best we could.

the growth comes from examining those interactions, which were healthy, which were unhealthy, which were theirs, which were ours. theres not much we can do about it now apart from seeing it in a balanced way and learning from it. with that knowledge, there is a whole lot we can do better in the future.

[VitaminC]

But the reason we go NC is because these relationships are not equal.

Now this I will wholly dispute. Each of us participated in our respective romantic or platonic... .aka chosen r/s (FOO issues are completely different mind you, they are not chosen). Each of us was responsible for 50% of what happened. That is by definition equality.

I've read so much in your posts on this thread about what your x did to you, but you were there, you took part. She didn't do it in a vacuum.

My ex relished my pain. She relished making afraid.

They inflict pain out of fear, not for enjoyment. [/quote]
Very interesting discussion. I have to weigh in here and say that I don't agree with one important presupposition, namely that 'they' act only out of fear and pain. 'They' sometimes act out of those things, yes, and sometimes we do, either in response to them or just because we have our own fear and pain or whatever. A bit of this is normal in relationships.

The important difference, in my view and experience, is that 'we' at least claim to have some consistency of feeling. People with BPD, in my own direct experience and according to everything that I've read over the last 6 months, leads me to believe that the extreme mood swings that occur lead to a completely different perception of themselves, their lives, and the people in their lives. And there is frequently not more than a glimmer of recognition of those swings. In so far as there is an awareness of them, the way of coping seems to be to locate the reason for it in something outside - a bad conversation, bad news, etc. There is an inability to track the source of a huge emotional shift back to themselves (this would mean introspection, analysis, honest reflection - I think we can all appreciate how hard and frightening this can be).

However, an explanation usually is required, to oneself and, if in a relationship, at some stage and to some degree to the other. This is where the fun starts. If my mood changes on a whim and I feel out of control of those changes but need to present a reasonably coherent and consistent self to the world - then I am gong to work pretty hard to find the reason outside of myself. And if fear and pain are my prime motivators, I might feel that I am fighting for my very survival and become vicious in that fight. Sure.

My point is that while there are always so many narratives and versions of reality, we are not dealing with people who are in control of their emotions and are capable of consistency.

[HoneyB33]

This conversation feels more and more like you're poking holes in what I have said. And it's becoming about what I haven't said. While I'm trying to be vulnerable in my reasons for my choices, you're making pretty large assumptions about my beliefs as well as the responsibility that I have taken in my own life. You're countering me with theoretical ideas, that pretty much feel like you're trying to one-up me. As well as while I'm trying to be vulnerable with my experience, you're just talking in concepts. I'd challenge you to talk about your own self, and your own experience--how you really feel.

I've worked really hard at these questions, and I'm trying to share that with you. Because I really feel for you. I have struggled a lot with these questions, esp in light of compassion. But I didn't respond to you to joust about theory. I don't mind being open with you, but I do mind your assumptions.

[Mars22]

Ya know, I often wish I initiated the NC, so yes in that I can see your point Meili. Your act going NC to her was, for you to protect your self worth and dignity. Something we all lost in our Discard. As you discarded her so, certainly i can see how by doing so you feel compassion to how that hurt her... .and you both! Sounds healthy to me.  But, in there lies the difference — She doesn't think about "US"... she only thinks of her. IF She discarded you, painted you black... do you really think she would have compassion to how it made you feel?  My understanding is - no. I believe that's where HoneyB33 (and myself) agree perhaps. You going NC was for your own good (and protection) and you do know, quite healthy that people with these disorder need to have compassion because they are *sick*.

My reality in all this is that. They force us into NC but don't have any compassion or empathy for our struggles in the matter , like we do. And when i say "our" I mean "US"... her and me. Something us non's never seem to lose site of.  It's human decency question perhaps. And, as adults and with perhaps a history of rocking r/s after awhile I guess we all need to take responsibility for our actions at some point. What's that old adage about History and "dooming to repeat it". They never do learn... so they continue without learning and leave a wake of damage behind. Its tough finding compassion after awhile... .i guess.

I believe some indifferences here stem from the fact that, *most* everybody on this site was forced into NC. Now, even though [yes] we were 50% of the equation, our percentage really was never good enough, so it doesn't feel like a 'protective' choice for most of us. And, judging by the nature of the disorder and the way they rage and act... they (unlike us) probably have no thought towards compassion for us like *we* seem to have for them after the discard. I don't think my xwBPD traits is going... "Poor healthy minded guy, he tried so hard to make me happy and treat me like human being... with respect and patience... .maybe I'll consider that in the future and tell him how sorry I am."

I bet once time goes by Meili that you will be able to reach out to your ex and with a clear mind try and be a peaceful person to her. You did not paint her black. You simply sacrificed and cut off the leg, knowing if you didn't, the body will die.

They cut off our heads.

[WishIKnew82]

He painted me black. I did not paint him black nor do I see him as bad.

He sees me as evil and crazy and has mentally abused me beyond belief. Wanted me to kill myself and even made me believe I deserved it. He closed the door on communication. I left it open by saying that even though he hates me I will never close the door on him. End of story. "They" are the ones doing this. I hardly see nons acting like that.  He is giving me the Silent Treatment. He is staying NC. He is painting me black. So this question is kind of irrelevant in my case and I think a lot of cases.

[WishIKnew82]

This conversation feels more and more like you're poking holes in what I have said. And it's becoming about what I haven't said. While I'm trying to be vulnerable in my reasons for my choices, you're making pretty large assumptions about my beliefs as well as the responsibility that I have taken in my own life. You're countering me with theoretical ideas, that pretty much feel like you're trying to one-up me. As well as while I'm trying to be vulnerable with my experience, you're just talking in concepts. I'd challenge you to talk about your own self, and your own experience--how you really feel.

I've worked really hard at these questions, and I'm trying to share that with you. Because I really feel for you. I have struggled a lot with these questions, esp in light of compassion. But I didn't respond to you to joust about theory. I don't mind being open with you, but I do mind your assumptions.

Even though I am not the one who initiated NC, I must say I agree with everything you say. Your views are well substantiated  and totally relatable to me. It seems like you've thought this through and found a real stable place to find your peace. I think going through hell and back finally makes you realize that you count too. Giving all and getting a sh*tload of abuse back in return drives a person insane.

[hurting300]

NO CONTACT; Is when you break and TELL THEM you wish to no longer communicate.

SILENT TREATMENT; Is when "all of a sudden" and without warning you cease communication WITHOUT telling them. Which is also known as "Ghosting". 

It is NOT silent treatment if they openly break up with you or vice verse.

Ghosting or Silent treatment is ABUSE. plain and simple.

[hurting300]

Walking away and not telling them anything is nothing more than a childish action that warrents "self examination" as to why you can't leave a note or text or email. When you TELL someone "it's over" you have given them closure and you move on. That is NO CONTACT.

[Meili]

This conversation feels more and more like you're poking holes in what I have said.

Honey833, I'm really sorry that I'm coming across that way. I promise you that was not my intent. I am only trying to understand why our hurting them is acceptable, but their doing the same to us is demonized. That's all. I didn't mean it to be personal about anyone in particular. Again, I'm very sorry that I came across the way that I did.

Also, I apologize for any incorrect assumptions that I made. It is sometimes hard to get a clear understanding of what a person is trying to convey via text alone.

I'd challenge you to talk about your own self, and your own experience--how you really feel.

I have no problem or fear of doing this. I try to be very open and honest with how I feel and what I believe. Was your suggestion for me to do this internally (that I do all the time), or did you have something that you'd like me to address?

I've worked really hard at these questions, and I'm trying to share that with you. Because I really feel for you. I have struggled a lot with these questions, esp in light of compassion. But I didn't respond to you to joust about theory.

But, theory is what we are all working with here. That's all that we have to discuss. We can only speculate as to what goes on outside of our respective bodies. Not one of us has our pwBPD here to explain their side of the story (not that it would probably make much sense to any of us), so all that we have are presumptions to work with.

Once again, I would really like to come apologize for coming across to you as I did.

[bunny4523]

Mellie,

Why do you believe NC hurts the BPD person?  Sometimes it is better for them too, easier to move on.  Often they initiate it and act as if you never existed.  I think my ex is fine with it. He believes I'm an evil person and wants nothing to do with me.  Then smiles at me in the hallway and asks me how my weekend was?  (we still work together)  We never spoke of no contact. I just noticed that he goes back and forth less if I limit my contact which I believe is best for both of us. He seems to get less attached to idealizing me again. 

For me, when I'm painted white, I always have the fear of one day being painted black again and I get anxious about when that freefall is coming.  When I'm painted black, atleast my feet are on the ground and I don't have to worry about that freefall coming up... .atleast for a little while.     

I don't think anyone is saying to do NC as a way to strike back and if they are, I do not agree with that.  I do limited contact because the more time I put into my ex BPD partner, the worse I feel about myself as a person.  It's hard to shake off the terrible things they say about you sometimes and a little sneaks in to my heart.  Out of all my past relationships, he is the only one that I am not friendly with. 

I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone... .or retaliate.

You are not responsible for the happiness of another person.  If my deciding to do limited or no contact with my ex because it's in my best interest but it ends up hurting his feelings... .That is ok, those are his feelings.  He can feel how he feels.  It's not abuse to choose not to be involved in someone's life.  Staying in someone's life just to be mean and tear them down is abuse.

Maybe you should write a letter to your ex or talk it out when you are ready... .

I wish you the best and I hope your able to get your questions answered.

Bunny

[HoneyB33]

I understand your question Meili, I think you gotta answer that question for yourself now. I really get where that question is coming from, because it feels like it's the same thing. I asked the same questions, and really struggled with them a lot. But it's not. Yes, both hurt ppl, but hurting ppl isn't always wrong. It depends what hurts a person. There is a quote that says something along the lines that if someone is hurt by the truth, they deserve to be. That doesn't mean cruelty, and there is never an excuse to use truth maliciously. But living by the truth is never wrong. There is a very large difference in these. So if someone is hurt because you tell them the truth, that is very different from hurting someone by telling them lies and abusing them. Generally the hand we have been dealt by these ppl is that they are telling us lies, and harming us, and then harming us even more when we simply try to tell them the truth that they are hurting us. Yes, NC can still hurt someone, but that doesn't mean we're doing something wrong. But that also does mean that their ST can hurt us, and it doesn't make it right. One is "deserved" and one is not.

Anyways, I think this will go in circles over and over if we keep talking about it. I guess you just decide what you believe. Do you want to believe that what you are doing is good? Do you want to believe that your self-preservation matters? Or do you want to believe that NC and ST are the same thing? Or are you fighting to know they are different, but can't seem to see how yet?

I appreciate your apology. I understand that things can seem a certain way on these forums. I am in no way denouncing compassion, or my responsibility. I can see how from the one direction it could seem that way. Haha, trust me. My problem is that I take on too much responsibility, not too little.

And what I meant in talking about yourself wasn't something specific, or that you are not vulnerable. I just meant that you might find more clarity if you talked more about how you really felt, rather than what you thought (theoretical). I understand that that is what we have here in discussion. But no one rule works for all. I am saying this as a person who very much works in a similar way. I look very much for the boundary or "rule" that I want to live by. Which isn't wrong, but I think you may find more clarity in your choices not by spinning your mind with a million questions, but feeling your heart. Because you already know your answer. Again, I'm very much saying this as someone who approaches things the same way, so I'm preaching just as much to myself.

[Meili]

Thank you for that response Honey833.

I am looking at things with my heart rather than my mind. That's the genesis of this whole discussion. My cognitive mind understands the rationale of all of this; it's the emotional part that generates the questions.

Bunny,

I think that they are hurt because the driving force behind them is fear. When we go NC, we substantiate their fears and bring them to life. The very thing that they are afraid will happen, happens.

I don't think that anyone is saying to go NC to strike back either. I understand that it's a protective measure. I also understand that in many cases it is a necessity.

The part that confuses me is the very thing that you said about not being responsible for another's happiness. The same holds true for our pwBPD. They are not responsible for our happiness, yet I see so many posts about people being upset about being hurt by their pwBPD because the pwBPD didn't care about the person's happiness. Then, we turn around and, basically, treat our pwBPD the same way that they treated us... .without caring.

Now, it is really easy to argue that we don't need to care about someone who does not care about us. I just don't subscribe to that theory.

[bunny4523]

Thank you for that response Honey833.

I am looking at things with my heart rather than my mind. That's the genesis of this whole discussion. My cognitive mind understands the rationale of all of this; it's the emotional part that generates the questions.

Bunny,

I think that they are hurt because the driving force behind them is fear. When we go NC, we substantiate their fears and bring them to life. The very thing that they are afraid will happen, happens.

I don't think that anyone is saying to go NC to strike back either. I understand that it's a protective measure. I also understand that in many cases it is a necessity.

The part that confuses me is the very thing that you said about not being responsible for another's happiness. The same holds true for our pwBPD. They are not responsible for our happiness, yet I see so many posts about people being upset about being hurt by their pwBPD because the pwBPD didn't care about the person's happiness. Then, we turn around and, basically, treat our pwBPD the same way that they treated us... .without caring.

Now, it is really easy to argue that we don't need to care about someone who does not care about us. I just don't subscribe to that theory.

Meili,

True, you are right they are not responsible for our happiness either and alot of people on this site struggle with letting go because they want so badly to get back to where it was before.  I think it has something to do with the blame they put on us.  We don't want to feel like a bad person and we want to get to more of a neutral place so we can part ways amicablly.  I personally believe those are our own "issues" we need to deal with... .that we need to strengthen in ourselves.  They hurt us so deeply on levels we don't warrant.  It's hard when someone you love that supposedly loves you could think so badly of you.  It goes against all things that feel natural and safe.  Especially for those of us who have had "descent" breakups with ex's and still are friends.  This type of hate and disregard is difficult to deal with.

Did you read the post about what no contact is and how it is supposed to be used? I posted it maybe a week back on this thread.  I understand what you are saying about their worst fear coming through and them hurting but you can't blame yourself or take responsibility for that.  They would most likely create that scenario with or without you.  Because it isn't about what is happening, it is about what they believe/feel is happening and you have no control over that.  You are painted black to make it easier for them to leave you.  I'm like you I think, I don't like unresolved conflict so for me it takes more negative energy to try and avoid someone than it does to address it head on.

I would suggest staying focused on taking care of you and cut off any negative communication.  Meaning if the ex is ranting and raving about how horrible you are then respond something like "I'm sorry your hurting but I don't want to talk about this until you can talk calmy or I won't have a conversation with you until you can talk in a productive manner."  Even if you just say, "Let's talk tomorrow."  Only you know how much negativity you can handle.  Your focus needs to be on you and how you are feeling FIRST.  Doesn't mean you can't have compassion or talk to your ex BUT you need to take care of you first.  Again only you can guage that.  Some of us can handle more than others... .if you can handle more- do what works for you.  Just try to understand some people have been in it for so long that they are severly lost and depressed.  They can't take much more so for them... .no contact is the only way to go.

With my personal situation, my ex BPD ended it with me so I just granted his wish and left.  I know it probably isn't what he really wanted.  More of a way of scaring me into jumping through hoops to vow my love to him so he felt good again.  But he made the decision... .he said the words to me... .more than once. Therefore he will have to deal with the consequences of his actions.  How many times did he think he could tell me he didn't want me before I walk away?  I didn't go NC on him.  I just held my head high and moved on because I know I am a good person and I have confidence in the love I give and I refused to buy into his image of me.  I don't need to be with someone who says he doesn't want me.  I will find someone who does want me and likes me and says nice things to me. 

It was hard and it hurt but I chose to react to his actions and not wonder what he is feeling or going through internally.  That is no longer my concern.  My life is about my life, not his.  He is no longer a part of my life.  I need to deal with my feelings and how all of this effected me.  I guess in a way, he went no contact with me... .never text or called to address any of it after the split.  Although he does use work as a way to interact with me... .which is really awkward and inappropriate but I just keep it professional.  I do not wish to share my life with him, we are not friends because he does not act like a friend.

I think alot of co-dependant personalities are partners to BPD... .and that is something each of us need to explore and work on.  That might be one of the biggest ties that make it so hard for us to break away.  We want to help them, save them... .we want to fix it, but we aren't in control of their lives, only our own. 

I also read alot obout how the BPD doesn't hurt as much with distance as they do with intimacy so I don't think that they feel the pain as deeply as nons would. 

How are you doing now?  Things getting any clearer for you?  It took me about 5-6 months to fully process it all and then I still had anxiety - probably from just having to interact with him daily and I worried about losing my job.  I feel like I'm in a good place now.

Bunny   

[Meili]

I'm doing well. I have NC with my pwBPD. And, yes, I read the link that you posted.

I'm really unsure why people keep making comments about how they believe that I "don't get it." I do get it. I get it completely. I just don't see it the same way that many here seem to see it.

[bunny4523]

I'm doing well. I have NC with my pwBPD. And, yes, I read the link that you posted.

I'm really unsure why people keep making comments about how they believe that I "don't get it." I do get it. I get it completely. I just don't see it the same way that many here seem to see it.

That might be a good thing. Hang in there.  This is a hard place for anyone to be and it sounds like you have a better handle on it than most... .so keep doing what works for you!

[HoneyB33]

True, you are right they are not responsible for our happiness either and alot of people on this site struggle with letting go because they want so badly to get back to where it was before.  I think it has something to do with the blame they put on us.  We don't want to feel like a bad person and we want to get to more of a neutral place so we can part ways amicablly.  I personally believe those are our own "issues" we need to deal with... .that we need to strengthen in ourselves.  They hurt us so deeply on levels we don't warrant.  It's hard when someone you love that supposedly loves you could think so badly of you.  It goes against all things that feel natural and safe.  Especially for those of us who have had "descent" breakups with ex's and still are friends.  This type of hate and disregard is difficult to deal with.

What you said in this bunny, totally rings true for me. I do not have a desire to "get back" to anything with this person. My struggle has really been with the blame that they put onto me. I guess when I was going through all of this, I couldn't imagine someone saying such horrible things about a person (that they really believed) if there wasn't some grounds for it. I had been through so many abusive relationships with ppl (mostly friendships) that I finally just snapped and believed it all. I think in some way I was so desperate for it all to end, that I saw it as my only way out. NOPE.

I think it is really hard to just see things end like that. I too have pretty much had really good break-ups, and I'm generally friends with all my ex's. So to be served this insane judgment was just totally crazy to me. It's really refreshing to be here on the forum, and reading about BPD ppl. It's really helping me believe myself as to what I already knew was true. I think I am just kicking myself the most for having ever given in to believing those lies. It has literally cost me years of my life.

With what you said with, "We don't want to feel like a bad person and we want to get to more of a neutral place so we can part ways amicablly.  I personally believe those are our own "issues" we need to deal with... .that we need to strengthen in ourselves." Could you expand upon that? How to approach these issues, and deal with them? I am seeing how these things are issues in me, but I'm kind of lost in how to approach them.

[bunny4523]

[/quote]
With what you said with, "We don't want to feel like a bad person and we want to get to more of a neutral place so we can part ways amicablly.  I personally believe those are our own "issues" we need to deal with... .that we need to strengthen in ourselves." Could you expand upon that? How to approach these issues, and deal with them? I am seeing how these things are issues in me, but I'm kind of lost in how to approach them.[/quote]
Hi Honey,

I can only speak for myself and my experience but what I found was I had a a co-dependent connection that started with me and my alcoholic mom.  For many years I tried to fix her, hide her alcohol from her, cover for her… lay next to her all night to make sure she was ok.  My job at an early age was to take care of someone else first so if that person did something wrong or was hurt, it was my fault and my job to fix it.  I then picked an abusive marriage for ten years.  I finally started learning about co-dependency and why we choose to accept abuse.  I needed him to tell me I was a good person.  He would only do that “sometimes” and only if I stayed with him.  If I tried to leave, he would say bad things about me.  My life, my persona was a reflection of how he saw me. 

After 10 years, I left the marriage and was single and worked on taking care of me.  I learned how to back away from other people’s problem’s and look at it more like an observer rather than to intervene and fix.  I had to learn that “no one can make you feel inferior without your consent”.  I learned I know who I am and no matter what you say, it doesn’t change that.   

Then I found myself in this BPD relationship.  Of course I didn’t start feeling the co-dependent ties until the devaluing started.  I thought I had a completely different relationship while things were good.  Then once the devaluing started, I felt the automatic “it’s my fault, I have to fix it” creeping in.  Luckily, I was strong enough to not get wrapped up in it.  I knew it was dysfunctional because I had that same feeling in the pit of my stomach.  I didn’t understand logically what was happening yet but the “feeling” was very familiar.  I got into couple’s therapy and the therapist immediately validated me.  I new something was off and it wasn’t me.  I tried for a while to hold him accountable and understand him and stay by his side.  But it became too much for me and I left.  Shortly after that, the therapist shared his suspected diagnosis with me.  I dodged a bullet.





I also found If you google the abandoned child and the lonely child, there is an amazing dynamic between why our personality type pair up with BPD.  As lonely children, we are very loving people and we try to understand others.  We are very independent.   In our attempt to understand them, it makes them question the relationship which triggers fear of abandonment and the cycle begins.  I found it really interesting and it kind of takes away the “maybe I could have done something different” feeling because the step by step leading up to the ending of the relationship is right there in black and white….  So for me, it told me it was going to happen no matter what because I have a healthy thought process.  Only another dysfunctional person would stay in that.  Keep in mind, we are all dysfunctional while we are accepting abuse (in my mind) but it is or can be temporary dysfunctional (or situational).  We can grow, get out and stay out.  I will try to find the article and send it to you in a person message. It is long but worth reading.

Bunny

[once removed]

I also found If you google the abandoned child and the lonely child, there is an amazing dynamic between why our personality type pair up with BPD. 

heres a good perspective piece on the subject:  PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

[bunny4523]

Thank you once removed.

[C.Stein]

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