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Author Topic: "I'm not good enough" and "I'm unattractive"  (Read 467 times)
Moselle
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« on: June 22, 2016, 04:34:56 PM »

Are both examples of a 'fixed' mindset. They are definitive and may be part of a belief system we have had since childhood.

A 'growth' mindset says 'regardless of how I am today, through hard work and perseverence I can be good enough, and I can be attractive'.

I'm reading a powerful book called mindset by Carol Dweck at Stanford.

She challenges alot of the beliefs we have from childhood as erroneous and fixed, discounting how these things can change over time through conscious effort
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joeramabeme
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 05:39:51 PM »

Hi Moselle

Good post and dovetails nicely with something I was considering as a new thread so will add it here.

I have been watching a good friend of mine sink into an abusive relationship in which I consider him an "active participant of his own abuse".  In other words, she is abusive to him and yet he encourages the same. Though he sees himself as getting some desired outcomes he is battling his own internal sense of worth as he intermittently acknowledges that it is dragging him down.

This got me to thinking, was the reason that I was so upset at my exes persistent negative insinuations, declarations and outright verbal abuse because I didn't like her behaviors or because some part of me was battling an internal perception of myself that was unresolved or simply exiled from my consciousness.  Regardless of which part of me was being addressed with my dislike; there was a healthy part of my being that said I do not agree with this and that is why I argued and fought back against the abuse.

Said another way; I was split about my own opinion of myself.  One part of me, which was plugged into childhood messages, said; I feel less than.  But a deeper part of me rebelled to think of myself in these terms.  Not only was I doing battle with her stated perceptions of me, but I was battling the messages that I had received earlier in life.  Which takes me back to the story about my friend.  As I have watched him I thought to myself; there is no escaping that each of us has an inherent undeniable and healthy level of self-worth that we defend; even if we are not consciously aware of it.  It creates a chasm of internal conflict when we allow others to violate this natural instinct that each of us has and perhaps for many of us, is a chasm that already existed below the surface before we met our pwBPD.

To the point in your post Moselle; if I was centered from the perspective of self-worth, her words would likely have seemed unkind and rather baffling in context but unlikely upsetting - as I would not have seen the need to defend against them if I believed them to be untrue.  Yet, something about those words grabbed hold of my inner core and forced me to take a look; first at my anger towards her for saying them and then at myself for the lack of value and self-worth I granted to myself.  And perhaps, this is one of the best definitions of self-love; valuing yourself just as you are.  

IMO, all of our stories and the associated struggles contain truths about the mindsets that we have formed about ourselves.  Changing that mindset is a form of self-empowerment that can lead us not only to believe that we are worthy of more in a r/s, but to create and sustain a sense of self-worth that sustains.

FWIW, there are a number of authors throughout the ages that have published works around this central premise.  Another one that I like is called "The Power of Positive Thinking", there are many more.

Thanks for this post
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Moselle
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2016, 12:27:34 AM »

Joerabeme, Thanks for your reply. Great Insights.

This got me to thinking, was the reason that I was so upset at my exes persistent negative insinuations, declarations and outright verbal abuse because I didn't like her behaviors or because some part of me was battling an internal perception of myself that was unresolved or simply exiled from my consciousness.  Regardless of which part of me was being addressed with my dislike; there was a healthy part of my being that said I do not agree with this and that is why I argued and fought back against the abuse.

Said another way; I was split about my own opinion of myself.  One part of me, which was plugged into childhood messages, said; I feel less than.  But a deeper part of me rebelled to think of myself in these terms.  Not only was I doing battle with her stated perceptions of me, but I was battling the messages that I had received earlier in life.

Yes I believe there is an internal battle against what is said about us/ to us. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place about our conditioned view of ourselves and what we consider healthy or normal. Sadly we stay, not recognising the damage of reinforcement until they push it too far.

To the point in your post Moselle; if I was centered from the perspective of self-worth, her words would likely have seemed unkind and rather baffling in context but unlikely upsetting - as I would not have seen the need to defend against them if I believed them to be untrue.  Yet, something about those words grabbed hold of my inner core and forced me to take a look; first at my anger towards her for saying them and then at myself for the lack of value and self-worth I granted to myself.  And perhaps, this is one of the best definitions of self-love; valuing yourself just as you are.

IMO, all of our stories and the associated struggles contain truths about the mindsets that we have formed about ourselves.  Changing that mindset is a form of self-empowerment that can lead us not only to believe that we are worthy of more in a r/s, but to create and sustain a sense of self-worth that sustains.

Yes it is self love. Radical acceptance of what we are right now.  The amazing thing about a growth mindset, is that if we are upset about some of the stuff we bring from our childhoods, we need not accept the current reality as the end of the story.

Being poor is forever. But being broke is temporary.




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bAlex
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2016, 04:27:29 AM »

Are both examples of a 'fixed' mindset. They are definitive and may be part of a belief system we have had since childhood.

A 'growth' mindset says 'regardless of how I am today, through hard work and perseverence I can be good enough, and I can be attractive'.

I'm reading a powerful book called mindset by Carol Dweck at Stanford.

She challenges alot of the beliefs we have from childhood as erroneous and fixed, discounting how these things can change over time through conscious effort

I think this is so important - to break disempowering beliefs.

To believe you are unattractive or not good enough serves a person how? It is 100% useless to think that.

I'm currently re-reading Awaken The Giant Within, there's a whole chapter on there about breaking negative beliefs and convictions and replacing them with more healthy ones.

I'm a firm believer of self improvement, or growth as you call it. But with all the chaos surrounding my ex over the past few years I kind of forgot all about it. Only now am I starting to move in that direction again, and it feels absolutely amazing.

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Moselle
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2016, 04:55:15 AM »

Thanks for adding your encouragement bAlex. I also feel quite passionate about this.

And its a crucial message for anyone who is in, or has been in a relationship with a pwBPD. Our perceptions get all out of whack.

Here is a concrete example of just how powerful this can be.

On 3 October 2015, after selling 2 million seat tickets to the Rugby World cup, England  became the first host nation ever to be knocked out during the pool stage of the tournament. They were ranked 8th in the World. The national shame was enormous leading to the sacking of the coach and the appointment of Eddie Jones as coach. He used this book "Mindset", to instill new belief in the players. In March 2016 the won the Grand Slam for the first time since 2003 and last weekend they beat Australia in a test series in Australia for the first time ever. The exact same team with a few minor changes are now (8 months later) ranked #2 behind New Zealand. The difference? - A winning mindset.

It can improve incredibly fast if we can change our beliefs about, ourselves.
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bAlex
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2016, 05:56:29 AM »

No doubt; beliefs shape and influence virtually every aspect of our lives, including our relationships. It can determine success or failure.

It corellates to the previous thread I posted also, because when we think "he/she's the best I can get, I'll never get that again" it's based on a false belief. But I guess a lot of people missed that.





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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2016, 02:18:24 PM »

This post has made me think of something that I feel really differently in myself now after this relationship.

I'm sure I have several "fix" things in me, but generally I did kind of always have a "growth" mentality. I've been trying to explain for a long time to the people around me something that I feel has changed, and I realized that really simplifies it. I feel shoved into this "fixed" mentality, rather free in "growth".

If feel poisoned by this. Like all that in me said that I could be free, change, grow--got so shut down in all of this. I feel filled with this hopelessness and powerlessness that came at fighting to change things so much in my life, and left me feeling like I was nothing, hopeless, and worthless. All of this really got into me, and took that "hope" away from me that I had in growth.

I'm not saying I am settled here, but I am really struggling to get free again in that liberty I felt in life. I very much feel like I have been shoved into "fixed" and lost the place in myself that was in "growth". I guess a lot of that has to do with the painted black aspect of everything. But yeah.
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Nuitari
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2016, 08:23:43 PM »

Excerpt
Said another way; I was split about my own opinion of myself.  One part of me, which was plugged into childhood messages, said; I feel less than.  But a deeper part of me rebelled to think of myself in these terms.  Not only was I doing battle with her stated perceptions of me, but I was battling the messages that I had received earlier in life.  Which takes me back to the story about my friend.  As I have watched him I thought to myself; there is no escaping that each of us has an inherent undeniable and healthy level of self-worth that we defend; even if we are not consciously aware of it.  It creates a chasm of internal conflict when we allow others to violate this natural instinct that each of us has and perhaps for many of us, is a chasm that already existed below the surface before we met our pwBPD.

I think you articulated perfectly something I've been struggling with. My ex initiated the relationship. Even though I was very attracted to her, I would never have made the first move because I never would have guessed in a million years that a woman like her, who could have her pick of any man she wanted, would be interested in me. Even when the flirting started, part of me thought I was just misinterpreting things because of wishful thinking on my part. I'll never know what she saw in me. I sometimes wonder if she sensed those insecurities and decided from it that I would be easy prey. Whatever the case, she put me on a pedestal. She made me feel special. I never thought I would have that experience, to be the recipient of so much attention and affection from such a beautiful woman. Of coarse, that didn't last. But as angry as I now am with her, there is this voice in my head telling me that, instead of being angry, I should be grateful for what attention I did receive from her. It was more than I would have ever expected from a woman like her. We went to dance club one night. It wasn't my thing, but she wanted to go. She looked AMAZING. I remember that she was wearing this short, tight black leather dress. Every guy there was staring at her, and she was with me! I was the envy of every man there. I could see it in their faces. I never thought I would be that guy. She has given me experiences and memories that I would never have dared hope for, and then she went on to make me feel like an insignificant piece of garbage. Now I'm left feeling this weird mixture of anger and gratitude, and I'm still trying to learn how to sort it all out in my head.
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2016, 08:41:22 PM »

A 'growth' mindset says 'regardless of how I am today, through hard work and perseverence I can be good enough, and I can be attractive'.

Nice Moselle, you're really digging into this stuff, and it is life changing if we apply it.

To take the above a step further, just because: "I am more than enough, and I am attractive" or if you brain says 'bullsht' when you say that, try "I am becoming better and better, I am becoming more attractive".

Those are affirmations, part of the larger topic of transformational vocabulary, and uses "I", the present tense, and the presuppositions that you're already good enough and already attractive, important components.  Point is to habitually say those aloud or in your head, in fact set an alarm on your phone to do it every 2 hours for a month, or whatever, and we'll know it's working when the inner critic pipes in with the usual crap, and involuntarily the new belief shows up and drowns it out.  Sounds kind of foo foo, but it WORKS if we put the time in.

It's said that 90% of the thoughts we have today we had yesterday, we're creatures of habit, and with conscious effort we can change that inner dialogue in a way that empowers us.

And really the above are beliefs, the strongest kind of beliefs, beliefs about who we ARE.  Changing those has a ripple effect through our entire lives, so it's worthy of lots of focus yes?  
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Moselle
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 12:41:42 AM »

Nice Moselle, you're really digging into this stuff, and it is life changing if we apply it.

I'm trying hard. Thanks for all the encouragement. I'm learning alot from you!

To take the above a step further, just because: "I am more than enough, and I am attractive" or if you brain says 'bullsht' when you say that, try "I am becoming better and better, I am becoming more attractive".

That is interesting. I tried last week to do some mirror work. Saying things like "I love and respect you" in the mirror. Its interesting to note the feelings I experienced. My chest felt sore, and my throat constricted  Why?

I settled for saying, "I'm willing to love and respect you". It went much better. By the end of the week, I was laughing and enjoying my time in front of the mirror.

Check this out - 21 days to love yourself.

www.hayhouse.com/mirror-work-paperback

Those are affirmations, part of the larger topic of transformational vocabulary, and uses "I", the present tense, and the presuppositions that you're already good enough and already attractive, important components.  Point is to habitually say those aloud or in your head, in fact set an alarm on your phone to do it every 2 hours for a month, or whatever, and we'll know it's working when the inner critic pipes in with the usual crap, and involuntarily the new belief shows up and drowns it out.  Sounds kind of foo foo, but it WORKS if we put the time in.


So using the present tense and making assumptive statements about already having positive traits are important in affirmations. I am looking for ways to affirm my children, who currently live with my ex BPD/NPD mud puddle. How can I affirm them?

I use things like "You are perfect just as you are" Is there anything wrong with that? Can I do it better?

and "Love yourself, Everyone makes mistakes"

It's said that 90% of the thoughts we have today we had yesterday, we're creatures of habit, and with conscious effort we can change that inner dialogue in a way that empowers us.

And really the above are beliefs, the strongest kind of beliefs, beliefs about who we ARE.  Changing those has a ripple effect through our entire lives, so it's worthy of lots of focus yes?  

A resounding "Yes"

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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 05:21:48 AM »

Hey Moselle-

That is interesting. I tried last week to do some mirror work. Saying things like "I love and respect you" in the mirror. Its interesting to note the feelings I experienced. My chest felt sore, and my throat constricted  Why?

Yes, I've done some work in the mirror, it's OK but I like the beliefs and vocabulary work better, really associating to how they make me feel, and I don't need to be looking at myself to do that, but the right way is the way that works, and you get huge credit for trying things, you're on it man!

I don't know what the physical sensations are about for you, but they do say you're onto something, I say run with it and see where it takes you!

Excerpt
So using the present tense and making assumptive statements about already having positive traits are important in affirmations. I am looking for ways to affirm my children, who currently live with my ex BPD/NPD mud puddle. How can I affirm them?

The best way to influence children is by example; kids notice what we do more than what we say, especially if those two aren't congruent, and the cop-out some parents use is "do what I say, not what I do!"  The work you're doing now will have a ripple effect to your kids, the best thing you can do, and good for you! 

And beyond that, notice what they say; if one says "I'm so stupid" when they make a mistake, for example, don't ever, ever shame them for it or agree with them, instead focus on a reframe, questions are good for that, like "what can you learn from that?" in a tone that is playful and curious, not condemning.  That will shift their focus, you might add "find something, at least one thing", their brain will get to work and come up with something, and then validate it, which anchors it.  That does a few things: it shifts the focus away from the 'I'm so stupid' belief, it instills the belief that mistakes are learning experiences, and it conveys that you will be there to help them navigate life no matter what, that they have someone who is supportive and won't shame them for screwing up.  And once those beliefs are in their head, they will come to you with more issues that need to be dealt with, which will surely happen if their mother has a personality disorder.

I use things like "You are perfect just as you are" Is there anything wrong with that? Can I do it better?



That's pretty good, and the delivery is more important than the words, how you say it, and you can tell by the look on their face how it was received.  It is a statement though, and one that isn't true really, nobody's perfect, an option might be "how many things are you getting better at?" which is a question so it engages their brain, and if you're in good rapport with them, a playful, curious vibe instead of a critical one, they'll come out with answers, which is a focus shift to what they do well, always a good thing.

and "Love yourself, Everyone makes mistakes"

The first one is a command, the second one is a belief, again how you say it is more important than what you say, and it's better to ask questions that elicit beliefs you can reframe or validate, it engages their brain instead of passively hearing something.  You could say "I love you, everyone makes mistakes, but only some people learn from them, so what do you think you and I can learn from this?".  Love, rapport, validation, instilling a belief, engagement with a question, teamwork; lots of fun there man!
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Lilyroze
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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 03:37:25 PM »

That is interesting. I tried last week to do some mirror work. Saying things like "I love and respect you" in the mirror. Its interesting to note the feelings I experienced. My chest felt sore, and my throat constricted  Why?

I settled for saying, "I'm willing to love and respect you". It went much better. By the end of the week, I was laughing and enjoying my time in front of the mirror.

Check this out - 21 days to love yourself.

www.hayhouse.com/mirror-work-paperback



So using the present tense and making assumptive statements about already having positive traits are important in affirmations. I am looking for ways to affirm my children, who currently live with my ex BPD/NPD mud puddle. How can I affirm them?

I use things like "You are perfect just as you are" Is there anything wrong with that? Can I

Louise Hay and Hay house have some lovely books indeed.

The mirror work for instance is originally part of the works of Dr. Joseph Murphy. His book the Power of the subconscious mind is a true delight to read, if you don't mind me recommending.

How to use the healing power of your subconscious mind also by Dr. J. Murphy. You can find these on pdf.

Affirmations by Catherine Ponder are also wonderful. She has many books and is a wonderful insightful writer.

We can rewire the patterns in our brain with the cognitive behavioral affirmations.

"Your mind is a tool you can choose to use it any way you wish"

Louise Hay

I love Norman Vincent Peales writing as well. He has been a favorite for a long time. My reading these has helped me all my life but my stb UNBD, hated anything positive and made fun of me for it. Funny he liked in beginning of marriage ( I guess mirroring then)

As you know we are all responsible for our own happiness in life, our core values and what we bring into it.

Murphy realized that thoughts, feelings, imagination and beliefs affect prosperity and health. "When you stop and think, you realize that everything you do and that you refuse to do is previously determined by an attitude of mind - a way of thinking on your part. If you find your condition chronic, if you are leading a dull, routine, monotonous life, it is very likely that you too are dwelling on the past and repeating the same old mental patterns" (1980, p. 33).

The truth of our experience is intended to be a pathway - a guide - to allow us to reach our own potential. Our histories, and all that they contain, are intended to be a gateway to the future, not a prison cell to hold us trapped in the limitations of those who once were able to shape our lives.

“Men who are gifted with intuition and imagination find water in the desert, and they create cities where formerly other men  saw only a desert and a wilderness.”

So many studies including the Mayo clinic talk about stress and how the power of positive thought can help. Heal emotionally or handle life better.

Positive thinking doesn't mean that you keep your head in the sand and ignore life's less pleasant situations. Positive thinking just means that you approach unpleasantness in a more positive and productive way. You think the best is going to happen, not the worst.

Going for a walk in nature, meditating, finding the joy and gratitude in the day, positive affirmations for yourself or children will go a long way in making your life a positive influence.

Giving healing thoughts to yourself or  another is a beautiful practice to add to your daily routine for many reasons. One of which is the very rewarding return you will see in your own life! Try it, the calm, peaceful feeling that it endures in you is beautiful.

ETA: Just saw Joe mentioned "The Power of Positive Thinking" By Norman V Peale again he was my very favorite and still is. Wonderful man, author, thoughts and book. Can't recommend enough.

Find the peace, and enjoy your journey.

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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 04:34:05 PM »

Positive thinking doesn't mean that you keep your head in the sand and ignore life's less pleasant situations. Positive thinking just means that you approach unpleasantness in a more positive and productive way. You think the best is going to happen, not the worst.

Belief: "Everything happens for a reason and it serves us."
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2016, 04:49:44 PM »

Positive thinking doesn't mean that you keep your head in the sand and ignore life's less pleasant situations. Positive thinking just means that you approach unpleasantness in a more positive and productive way. You think the best is going to happen, not the worst.

Belief: "Everything happens for a reason and it serves us."

"Everything happens for a reason and it serves us."

Yes Anthony Robbins.

The people willing to swim in the sea of life, learn, the ones who don't get stuck in murky waters and poison themselves and their environment with negativity, toxins and anger or rage.

Life is what you make of it, put into it and learn along the way.

Without the small tests, whatever they may be, life would be like a smoothly paved, straight flat road to nowhere.  It would be safe and comfortable, but dull and utterly pointless. Life has many roads, paths and journeys. Choose wisely.

Appreciate every moment and take from those great  moments everything that you possibly can for you may never be able to experience it again. Talk to people that you have never talked to before, and actually listen.  Let yourself set goals, dream,  break free from negativity, and set your sights high. Hold your head up because you have every right to.  Tell yourself you are a great individual and believe in yourself ( hard I know), for if you don’t believe in yourself, it will be hard for others to believe in you.  You can make your life anything you wish.  Create your own life and then go out and live it with absolutely no regrets.  Most importantly, if you love someone tell them, for you never know what tomorrow may have in store.  And finally, enjoy looking forward to learning a new lesson each day and enjoying the journey.

Sometimes things happen to you that may seem horrible, painful, and unfair at first, but in reflection you find that without overcoming those obstacles you would have never realized your potential, strength, willpower, or heart.

Aristotle and the building of a home is a great way to look at it as well.
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 07:37:41 AM »

As far as affirmations go, they do work but it takes time. It is said that incantations work much better because the words are spoken out loud with emotional intensity and you involve your body through movement / gestures.
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2016, 07:48:50 AM »

As far as affirmations go, they do work but it takes time. It is said that incantations work much better because the words are spoken out loud with emotional intensity and you involve your body through movement / gestures.

Yes, not so much time but repetition.  We're countering neural pathways that have been in place for a very long time, and creating new ones that are strong takes dedication.  One thing that is helpful is to set an alarm on our phone or whatever and stop what we're doing, whatever it is, to fully associate to an emotional state that we're installing; I did that in a restaurant restroom the other night, excused myself from the table, because what could be more important?  Nothing.  Incantations can work too, and really it's whatever gets us fully emotionally associated to the new belief; speaking in the right tone, holding our body in the right posture, making the right movements can all contribute.  I use brainwave entrainment to meditate, and lately I've been thinking affirmations when I'm doing it, seems to go in deeper when I'm in a meditative state, doesn't matter really, whatever works to get the new belief in.
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2016, 02:23:58 PM »

And beyond that, notice what they say; if one says "I'm so stupid" when they make a mistake, for example, don't ever, ever shame them for it or agree with them, instead focus on a reframe, questions are good for that, like "what can you learn from that?" in a tone that is playful and curious, not condemning.  That will shift their focus, you might add "find something, at least one thing", their brain will get to work and come up with something, and then validate it, which anchors it.  That does a few things: it shifts the focus away from the 'I'm so stupid' belief, it instills the belief that mistakes are learning experiences, and it conveys that you will be there to help them navigate life no matter what, that they have someone who is supportive and won't shame them for screwing up.  And once those beliefs are in their head, they will come to you with more issues that need to be dealt with, which will surely happen if their mother has a personality disorder.

The first one is a command, the second one is a belief, again how you say it is more important than what you say, and it's better to ask questions that elicit beliefs you can reframe or validate, it engages their brain instead of passively hearing something.  You could say "I love you, everyone makes mistakes, but only some people learn from them, so what do you think you and I can learn from this?".  Love, rapport, validation, instilling a belief, engagement with a question, teamwork; lots of fun there man!

Amazing advice. Thanks fhth. I had to go to court to get visitation this weekend, and this will help me make them feel loved.

“Men who are gifted with intuition and imagination find water in the desert, and they create cities where formerly other men  saw only a desert and a wilderness.”

Lilyroze, thanks for this. Its inspiring.

Appreciate every moment and take from those great  moments everything that you possibly can for you may never be able to experience it again. Talk to people that you have never talked to before, and actually listen.  Let yourself set goals, dream,  break free from negativity, and set your sights high. Hold your head up because you have every right to.  Tell yourself you are a great individual and believe in yourself ( hard I know), for if you don’t believe in yourself, it will be hard for others to believe in you.  You can make your life anything you wish.  Create your own life and then go out and live it with absolutely no regrets.  Most importantly, if you love someone tell them, for you never know what tomorrow may have in store.  And finally, enjoy looking forward to learning a new lesson each day and enjoying the journey.

Sometimes things happen to you that may seem horrible, painful, and unfair at first, but in reflection you find that without overcoming those obstacles you would have never realized your potential, strength, willpower, or heart.

Aristotle and the building of a home is a great way to look at it as well.

This makes every day an adventure. And it should be
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