Out of ideas regarding suicidal thoughts. How seriously do I take them?

[horseyflute]

I mean, yes, obviously, I know, you have to take every suicidal thought seriously... But I don't know where to turn for help. Mom has said similar things (there's no point to her life, no one needs her anymore, she's just a burden, there's nothing left she can do but die, or she "stayed strong and didn't kill herself" one morning when she got back from a night spent hiking in the nearby countryside after an outburst), before, and so far, nothing has happened. This has been going on for year(s?) now.

My mom doesn't have a diagnosis, one of her psychologists suggested BPD several years back and she stopped therapy with that psychologist shortly after that. Since then, she has seen several psychologists and saw a psychotherapist (specializing in BPD) for almost half a year, but she stopped seeing her about a month ago. She claimed she never felt any of them helped anything. (The problem of course never had anything to do with her, which is why she rejected any kind of label, but the fault for everything and anything that came up was /is my father's - who moved out 8-9 months ago. Now, she fears what he might do, e.g. stop her from seeing her children, poison us against her etc., if she got a diagnosis. All 6 of us except my youngest sister (14) are above 18.) So I don't see how it's possible to move forward along BPD lines. Not that I necessarily have to - I'm not trying to give her a diagnosis here, but it has proven the most useful in the past when trying to understand behaviors, etc or to find new strategies, communication tips etc.

So we could try following up on the suicidal thoughts/words and urge her to get help.

Today, my sister said mom said she had stood with a knife in her hand and wondered what she should do. That really scared me. But I don't know where to turn for help. She has been surrounded with professionals the past months. One of her biggest fears is that she'll end up in a psychiatric ward and she'll be stuck there or they'll medicate her and she won't be herself. When we ask what we can do to help, the reply is always that 1) we should always tell her the plain truth or 2) tell Dad to come back to her and love her (my words, not quite hers). I don't know what to suggest/say/do that could help (and optimally, doesn't feel to her that I want to facilitate something she feels is a betrayal. Especially if it wouldn't help her in the end - as I said, this "theme" has come up before, and she has had so many psychologists/psychiatrists... I don't see what difference suggesting something along these lines would make...

But I also - obviously - would feel horrible if something DID happen, and I didn't do all I could to prevent it. I have simply run out of ideas.

[Naughty Nibbler]

HEY HORSEYFLUTE  

Welcome to The Family  

I know, you have to take every suicidal thought seriously... But I don't know where to turn for help. Mom has said similar things (there's no point to her life, no one needs her anymore, she's just a burden, there's nothing left she can do but die, or she "stayed strong and didn't kill herself" one morning when she got back from a night spent hiking in the nearby countryside after an outburst), before, and so far, nothing has happened. This has been going on for year(s?) now.

It is good that you mom hasn't attempted suicide, but as you stated, you need to take it seriously.  I see you are from Hungary.  In the US, we would call 911 for emergencies and someone would call them to prevent a suicide.  Has anyone ever called for emergency help for your mom?

Has your mom ever been on medication for depression or her BPD symptoms?

The information in the link below can be helpful when someone in your life deals with suicidal thoughts. There are about 9 pages.  Be sure you have all the emergency numbers relevant for where you live, in case you need them.  It is probably a good idea to make sure your mom has some relevant numbers in her phone (perhaps to a suicide hotline to call, or a text hotline, should one be available in your County)

SUICIDE AND CRISIS SUPPORT



https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety_first.pdf

My mom doesn't have a diagnosis, one of her psychologists suggested BPD several years back and she stopped therapy with that psychologist shortly after that. Since then, she has seen several psychologists and saw a psychotherapist (specializing in BPD) for almost half a year, but she stopped seeing her about a month ago. She claimed she never felt any of them helped anything. (The problem of course never had anything to do with her, which is why she rejected any kind of label, but the fault for everything and anything that came up was /is my father's - who moved out 8-9 months ago

Here is a link to the DMS BPD Definition https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder and another overview IS IT BPD??

Today, my sister said mom said she had stood with a knife in her hand and wondered what she should do. That really scared me. But I don't know where to turn for help. She has been surrounded with professionals the past months. One of her biggest fears is that she'll end up in a psychiatric ward and she'll be stuck there or they'll medicate her and she won't be herself.

If her current self want's to commit suicide, then wouldn't she want to lose that part of herself  (lose the emotions that cause her to have those thoughts).  What part of herself is she afraid of losing?

It's not so important for you to have a label to put on your mom's behavior.  What will help is to use BOUNDARIES, understand FOG and to learn some specific COMMUNICATIONS skills.

Calling for emergency services, might force your mom into treatment.  At some point, you may have to do that.  The Suicide Guide will give you some guidelines that might be helpful.  You probably want to read it on your own and then perhaps do some of the exercises with your mom.

Read over some of the information and let us know what you think.  It can be a bit overwhelming, but take it a step at a time and come back to ask questions and get support.

[Fie]

Hello Horseyflute,

I  am so sorry to hear what is happening to you. My heart goes out to you.

Is your mum's therapist aware that she has suicide tendencies ? How about informing him/her ?

Is it possible in your country to make someone undergo forced treatment in a case like your mum's ? Not only for  her sake, but also for yours and your sister's ?

From experience I know it is horrifying to have to deal with a loved one who continuously threatens to kill himself / herself. At the time when it was  happening  to me, it drained me. All  I could think of, was : will he do it ? After some time, it became 'when will he do it' ? I felt terribly guilty not knowing what to do to prevent it. I even thought well, if he kills himself, I won't be able to live with the guilt, so maybe I'll have to do the same.

The advice Naughty Nibbler gave you is more than I can offer. I am no expert, and I probably dealt not very good with everything at that time when it was  happening to me. I also totally did not take care of myself. He became the center of my universe. I woke up thinking 'is he still alive' ? and I went to sleep hoping that the next morning he'd still be there.

But one thing I do know now : everyone is responsable for his/her own life. And everyone has the choice to end it - or not. That is really up to every individual. If your mum wants to end her life, than I personally think that is up to her. Of course you can try to help her. But there are limits. Because in the end, SHE will choose to live or to not live. Not you, whether you like that or not. What she's putting you through is horrible, by the way (even though I can imagine she does not realize that or she does not mean harm intentionally). It is totally out of limit. My personal opinion, and I hope I am not too harsh, is that if she really, really wanted to kill herself, she should have done that already, and not put you through this agony for years. Because I know it is agony as I have  been  there myself.

So please, next to reading the material Naughty Nibbler offered you, take care of yourself too. You might even want  to read something about 'how do I come to terms with someone's choice to end his life'. There must be literature about that. Because in the end, you won't be  able to prevent her to do it, if she really wants to go ahead with it. And than it's important to have something in your 'backpack', some skills on how to deal with that.