How Do I rebuild Trust

[Oncebitten]

Long story short... .Madly in love with a wonderful woman.  We broke up (not the first time) i thought she was gone for good and took  the easy way out and spent my time with another woman.  When my gf started talking to me again I knew I wanted her back.  Eventually I told her what happened but not as quickly as I should have.  I have completely cut the other woman out of my life and i am dedicated to rebuilding my relationship with my gf.  We both still love one another and want to be together, I am willing to do the work and I understand that this wont be a short process. But right now she goes back and forth between believing that this can work out and believing that we can never get back what we had because I have broken it beyond repair.  How do you instill trust in someone with trust issues after you broke their trust in such a awful way?

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[C.Stein]

Trust is the most difficult thing to repair in any relationship.  Once it is lost you may never get it back.  That is not to say you can't rebuild trust, but understand that it will be difficult and is something both parties have to work on together.

Also understand that it will never be the same again.  To expect/hope that you can get back to that place again is an unrealistic expectation.  In order to move forward you both will need to accept this.

How do you begin to do it?  

• Take full responsibility for your actions and consequences first and foremost, without any excuses, justification or finger pointing.  
• Understand and accept you may never regain her trust.  
• Show sincere and genuine regret and remorse for whatever you did that betrayed her trust in you.  
• Show that you care about her emotional wellbeing and don't be afraid to acknowledge that you compromised her trust in you (i.e. don't pretend it never happened, don't sweep it under the carpet).   You also don't want to continue to remind her of it either.  This is a delicate line to walk.
• Do whatever it takes to show her you are trustworthy ... .and this won't be easy.  Words aren't enough!  Action is what speaks the loudest.  
• Be patient with her ... .rebuilding trust can take a very long time, if it can be rebuilt at all.  

Where did I come up with these things?  This is what I needed my ex to do to even begin rebuilding my trust in her.  She chose instead to replace me.

[Oncebitten]

C.S

So far I have done everything you have suggested.

I have owned my mistake and apologized, sincerely.  And I have acknowledged that i broke the trust, I don't remind her of it but when it comes up i apologize again and remind her that its her that i love and its her that I am working to fix this with.
I have even started to take the steps to fix my own issues that caused the cheating to happen in the first place.
I know that this is going to take a while to fix and repair and I am willing to do the work and give her the time she needs.

the only problem is she just wants to go back to the way we were before, which i know is impossible, I believe that we can get through this and actually have a stronger relationship in the end

[C.Stein]

the only problem is she just wants to go back to the way we were before, which i know is impossible

Well, in some ways it is good that she wants to get back there because it might suggest she feels she can trust you again.  In other ways it might suggest she is unwilling to accept that it will never be the same again and is holding onto the past when she should be working on building a new future.  As you well know the past can't be undone.   

I believe that we can get through this and actually have a stronger relationship in the end

Some do, more don't.  I don't say this to discourage you, just to keep it real.

[Oncebitten]

C.S

I know that is the issue she wants so badly to go back ... .I keep telling her that we just have to move forward. .we can't go back... IDK what to do... she keeps saying we can't fix this but she continues to take my calls and answer texts... .I know in a normal relationship it is advisable to step back for a while then try again after a period of time... .is that wise with someone with BPD? 

Should I just stop and see is she chases me?

She told me she had a call from and old friend and made her think etc... .wonder if she did or if she is just trying to make me jealous.  I know she  loves me and still wants to be with me, but does that mean we have to have a fight every day?

[Meili]

Do you think that fighting every day will help rebuild trust?

[NotThatGuy]

We broke up (not the first time) i thought she was gone for good and took  the easy way out and spent my time with another woman.  When my gf started talking to me again I knew I wanted her back.  Eventually I told her what happened but not as quickly as I should have. . . she goes back and forth between believing that this can work out and believing that we can never get back what we had because I have broken it beyond repair.  How do you instill trust in someone with trust issues after you broke their trust in such a awful way?

I would challenge whether this is appropriate guilt on your part.  Your description says that you two broke up and, before you had re-engaged with your ex-again-gf, you were with someone else.  If you and your GF had broken up, you were *single*.  You didn't owe your ex-gf (which is what she was at the time) fidelity or sexual exclusivity.  You know, now, that you and your GF got back together, but did you know you were going to at the time of your other relationship?  If you didn't, IMO, you have nothing to apologise for.

That doesn't mean your GF's feelings of betrayal are wrong, or unexpected.  Many people would feel betrayed that someone they loved moved on so quickly.  But the fact that she *feels* betrayed, that it's understandable and predictable that she would feel betrayed doesn't mean that you *did* betray her.  This is one of those times where a person's understandable and valid emotional response isn't "true", in my book.  

I don't think you need to atone for this, and I don't think you can earn her trust back-- she has to choose to give it.  And she has to choose to tolerate the knowledge that you spent your time with someone else, instead of alone and pining for her.  If it's true, you could approach it by telling her that you didn't think she was coming back, and you thought you had to move on, so that's what you were trying to do.  But she *is* back, and you don't *want* to move on, you'd rather be in relationship with her.  If it fits your situation you could reassure her that this wasn't a choice, her vs the other person.  It was that you thought you didn't get to be with her anymore, so you did something else.

This wasn't cheating.  It wasn't an affair.  You weren't in a relationship -- you had every right to seek comfort and pleasure in whatever way you thought would be most fulfilling and healthy.  I get why your GF would be troubled by that, and possibly think it was a reason not to be with you anymore.  But that doesn't mean you did anything wrong.  

[Meili]

While I agree with NTG in theory, I'm not sure how that would play out in practice. Especially since at this point, the response given to OB's ex would change by adopting that point. The inconsistency would be damaging to trust rebuilding IMHO.

It would require JADE-ing, and be an invalidation of her feelings. Whether or not OB technically cheated is not going to matter to her. Her emotions tell her that he cheated and therefore it is factual to her that he cheated. No amount of logic is going to be able to combat her feelings.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that anyone ever accept accountability for something that they did not do. Her feelings can be validated without doing that.

[Circle]

That doesn't mean your GF's feelings of betrayal are wrong, or unexpected.  Many people would feel betrayed that someone they loved moved on so quickly.  But the fact that she *feels* betrayed, that it's understandable and predictable that she would feel betrayed doesn't mean that you *did* betray her.  This is one of those times where a person's understandable and valid emotional response isn't "true", in my book.   

Working on reading the whole thread. This just struck me as insightful. ^

[Circle]

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that anyone ever accept accountability for something that they did not do. Her feelings can be validated without doing that.

Meili,
How could her feelings be validated without accepting responsibility for false accusations? Thanks!

[Meili]

Validation is about acknowledging the other person's feelings and that they are real. Even if we don't agree with the reasoning behind those feelings, we can still let the other person know that we realize how real their feelings are. There is a good lesson on validation HERE and more HERE.

You don't ever have to accept responsibility for something that you didn't do.

By way of example, the pwBPD leaves a glass on the counter and blames the SO.

pwBPD: "I am really upset that you left the glass on the counter!"
SO: "I can see that you're really upset! I too would hate it if after I've asked a million times that a glass not be left on the counter I found one there!"
pwBPD: "Then why did you do it?"
SO: "I don't remember doing it, but I'll try to make sure that I don't do it in the future."

While it's a pretty weak example (it's the best that I could come up with at the moment), it gives some idea of how to acknowledge the other person's feelings without ever admitting (or alleging for that matter) any wrong-doing.

[NotThatGuy]

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that anyone ever accept accountability for something that they did not do. Her feelings can be validated without doing that.

Meili,
How could her feelings be validated without accepting responsibility for false accusations? Thanks!

Not Meili, but . . .

When I'm doing it, I try to validate the feelings as *feelings*, in their whole context.  Ie, if my uBPDw says: "you don't care about me at all, if you did, you wouldn't work so much," I say: "I know it bothers you a lot how much I work, and you feel like it means I don't care.  I get that; we've been having a lot of trouble lately, I'm feeling insecure too, and I miss you when you're not around.  So I see why it bothers you that I'm not home as much as we'd both like.  It's really hard." 

I use words as close to hers as I can, offer some legitimate reasons for her to feel that general way, normalize it if I can by reference to my own or others' experience, offer sympathy.  If I'm going to challenge her beliefs: "That's not true! I *do* care about you!" I do it after the validation has been accepted, she's indicated she agrees with me (at least a little, at least on this), and she's less worked up.  In my example, she might talk about how hard it is to have me away, I can talk about how I don't like it either, we can work on problem solving, then I can emphasize that I do care for her, once she's more ready to hear it. 

Something I've found useful is the idea of "levels of validation."  I got it from some DBT resources (here), but it may be on bpdfamily somewhere?  The most basic is just showing interest or reiterating what the person said, to show that you heard them.  Even that can be remarkably effective, and is more supportive than arguing-- and you don't have to agree, and can leave plenty of room to challenge distorted beliefs later. 

In your case, with my partner, I would probably say something like: "I know you feel really betrayed by what I did. It probably makes you question how I feel about you, that I could turn around and be with someone else so soon.  A lot of people feel like if you love somebody, you won't want to have sex with anyone else at all, so why would I do it, right?"  And then talk about why it makes her feel betrayed and how else she feels, and how *I* feel, and why my motivations for the liaison weren't what she thinks. 

I don't know for sure how you or your GF think about these things but, when my wife and I have been on the verge of breakup, I *may* have flashed on the phone numbers of a couple dear friends who'd be good for a hook-up.  So I can easily imagine myself in a similar position. 

[Circle]

SO: "I don't remember doing it, but I'll try to make sure that I don't do it in the future."

Thanks for the reply Meili. I like your thoughts. I think the highlighted part would get me in trouble though, as it's an invalidation.

[Meili]

How do you see it as invalidating? I'm not saying that you're wrong, and I even see where it opens the door for more dialog and questioning with certain personality types.  But, can you please explain how you see it?

[C.Stein]

I know in a normal relationship it is advisable to step back for a while then try again after a period of time... .is that wise with someone with BPD?  

Should I just stop and see is she chases me?

I can't answer any of these questions for you.  These are things that only you can know because you know her best.  Just because she might have BPD does not mean you have a road map to follow here.  Everyone is unique and you are in the best position to determine what to do.

That said, I will say that you should do what is best for you right now.  You can't force her to feel or do anything she doesn't want to.  Take ownership and blame for what is yours to own ... .nothing more.  She will either come around on her own or she won't.  :)o what you need to do in order to regain her trust ... .but consider this.  Perhaps her trust issues aren't really with you at all but with herself.  She doesn't trust herself and is projecting this onto you?  Something to consider as you move forward here.

I know she  loves me and still wants to be with me, but does that mean we have to have a fight every day?

Does fighting = love?  I don't think it does.  What are you fighting about?

[Meili]

SO: "I don't remember doing it, but I'll try to make sure that I don't do it in the future."

Thanks for the reply Meili. I like your thoughts. I think the highlighted part would get me in trouble though, as it's an invalidation.

I've been thinking about this and I don't like how my mind responded when I wrote "I don't remember... ." I think that is still part of my conditioning. What would be a better response that wouldn't cause the SO to admit something that the SO didn't do or invalidate the pwBPD?

[NotThatGuy]

I've been thinking about this and I don't like how my mind responded when I wrote "I don't remember... ." I think that is still part of my conditioning. What would be a better response that wouldn't cause the SO to admit something that the SO didn't do or invalidate the pwBPD?

I tend to use some version of this: "I honestly don't remember doing it, but I could have done it and forgotten (always a possibility, reality is fungible).  If I did, I'm sorry, and I'll try not to do it again."  It works with both my wife and our 5yo :D

[Meili]

Thank you NTG, it makes me feel better that I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

I would use that because it isn't actually a lie, I really wouldn't remember doing it because I didn't do it.

[Circle]

Meiji,
I'm in the midst of a false accusation scenario with my dxBPDso. If I say something like "I don't remember doing it", it is invalidating the fact that the pwBPD feels like you DID do it. Because, in their mind you did.

That's why I asked what you would say. And, I personally wouldn't go for "It's a possibility that I did do it", if false accusations are about something serious; because, you have basically plead guilty.

That's what I mean, if you have someone barreling down at you, full speed; thinking you can finesse the situation isn't always the case.

[Circle]

You can't force her to feel or do anything she doesn't want to.  Take ownership and blame for what is yours to own ... .nothing more.  She will either come around on her own or she won't.

I agree with this.

[Meili]

I'm in the midst of a false accusation scenario with my dxBPDso. If I say something like "I don't remember doing it", it is invalidating the fact that the pwBPD feels like you DID do it. Because, in their mind you did.

Can you explain this further please. You aren't telling the other person that they are wrong. So, how is that invalidating them?

That's why I asked what you would say. And, I personally wouldn't go for "It's a possibility that I did do it", if false accusations are about something serious; because, you have basically plead guilty.

I am not sure that I agree with this either. The idea is to defuse the situation so that it doesn't escalate. There is nothing that prevents you from addressing it later when things are calm. Then you can use other tools like S.E.T. or whatever works best for you.

That's what I mean, if you have someone barreling down at you, full speed; thinking you can finesse the situation isn't always the case.

I suppose that in some situations that is indeed correct. But, just because something won't work 100% of the time does not mean that it should be discarded entirely. Also, I see no harm is keeping the situation as calm as possible and not purposefully make things worse. As long as you're not validating the invalid that is.

Based on your last post, it appears that you might be misunderstanding what I'm saying. What I said about not remembering does not actually take ownership of anything.

[Circle]

"what would be a better response that wouldn't cause the SO to admit something that the SO didn't do or invalidate the pwBPD?"-Meili

That's what I've been trying to figure out too. The only thing I can come up with at the moment, are affirmations. Such as "I understand what you are saying" and "I hear you."

Saying "I understand that you are angry." Hasn't worked for me lately either. My dxBPDso's response to that is, verbatim, "I'm angry with you for your behavior and I halve already explained why. My mood is not the problem."

Okay, I think. Then, "I understand", is what I said. If only I could get a perfect response to come out of my mouth, in the heat of the moment. Basically, I think I have to wait for the weather to change, their mood to shift, before my pwBPD opens up to me. From my personal experience, if their accusations aren't honest, or real, and they are SERIOUS, I may open up communications with them again; yet I haven't been able to live-down their misconception.

[NotThatGuy]

Meiji,
I'm in the midst of a false accusation scenario with my dxBPDso. If I say something like "I don't remember doing it", it is invalidating the fact that the pwBPD feels like you DID do it. Because, in their mind you did.

That's why I asked what you would say. And, I personally wouldn't go for "It's a possibility that I did do it", if false accusations are about something serious; because, you have basically plead guilty.

That's what I mean, if you have someone barreling down at you, full speed; thinking you can finesse the situation isn't always the case.

Well, I wouldn't use that language to talk about something serious, either.  "I honestly don't remember hitting you, but it's possible I could have forgotten"-- uhm, no.  Among other things, it's not true, for me.  I could certainly have forgotten leaving a glass on the counter, stopping at a McDonald's, promising to do the laundry, or saying something in the heat of an argument.  It is not possible that I would forget hitting someone, or committing some other serious violation of bodily integrity.  IMO, when it comes to things that serious and clear-cut, validation does take second place to maintaining my own version of the truth.  "I know you feel really hurt and you say that I hit you.  I know you're really upset about it, and you feel abused.  But I did not hit you, I would never hit you."  

Validation isn't always appropriate, and doesn't always work.  The other person still gets to decide how to react.  I've totally gotten the "You *don't* love me!" response, when I tried to validate with "I know you feel like I don't love you right now."  Validation is just the best way to de-escalate that I've found.  But if validating the valid isn't sufficient, it's still all you can do.  Validating an invalid belief or perception is worse than an invalidating response which is factually correct, because it contributes to a skewed perception of reality.  

When faced with the "my mood is not the problem," situation, I've usually fallen back on "I know you're really upset about XYZ and you feel like I'm being unsupportive, and trying to talk you out of how you feel.  XYZ would upset me a lot, too, and I'd feel really angry if someone did that to me."  100% true, even if what we're talking about is an imaginary incident of violence. 

But I'd also say that major unfounded accusations are beyond the limits of my ability to tolerate.  If my wife accused me of violence, or a serious crime against her, I expect I would end the relationship and sever contact, except through lawyers.  So this isn't a place where I would keep validating and trying to de-escalate.  It's a place where I'd maintain a limit.

[Circle]

I'm in the midst of a false accusation scenario with my dxBPDso. If I say something like "I don't remember doing it", it is invalidating the fact that the pwBPD feels like you DID do it. Because, in their mind you did.

Can you explain this further please. You aren't telling the other person that they are wrong. So, how is that invalidating them?

Okay, we may have to use a slightly more intense scenario. Say, one of the kids comes in the house with a cut on their face. You've been out playing with them. You also had a disagreement with the same child; you had corrected them for spraying water on their sibling with a garden hose.
The child that has come in with the cut face (from some unknown accident) screams to their parent-w/BPD

"Kris (that's your name) was being mean to me and yelling at me!"

In reality, you weren't yelling at the child, you were firmly correcting them for hosing their sibling.

"You are being abusive to Erin!" the parent-w/BPD screams at you "You cut their face!"

I respond by saying "I don't remember doing it."

the parent-w/BPD screams "You did do it; look at their face!"

At this point, you are left with more simple validations, such as "I understand that you are upset."
And, to top it off, you are about to enter a month long period where you are unendingly being accused of cutting the child's face.

[Circle]

The original poster is dealing with false accusations of having cheated on their partner. Serious metaphors are appropriate for this situation.

[Oncebitten]

All,

Ok you guys have offered a lot and I have read it all a couple of times, and to be honest I didnt get on here yesterday because her and I were in a very good spot and were talking and working it out.  But you all kind of took this in a couple of different directions.  Anyone who wants to offer some advice here I am all ears.  First off yes technically we weren't together and so it wasnt cheating, I honestly didn't think that we would get back together so soon or at all.  I really thought we were done.  Problem is I had hopped we would get back together and I told her that.  Secondly I didn't tell her about what i had done until a rumor got back to her so I told her what I did.  She feels that not only did I cheat on her but I lied to her.  Her feelings are her truth so there is nothing more to be said from there.  My question is what do I need to do to help her through this.  She has asked me to give her a few days to process this and I have agreed.  I realize that to some of you I am doing more than I should have to and thats fine but I know that she needs me to put forward a maximum effort to get her through this so we can get back together. I am willing to do the work, I just need to know what I need to do.

[NotThatGuy]

Oncebitten-- I'm glad you're doing better :-).  Obviously not all of this is entirely on point to your original concern. 

If she's told you she needs a few days to process, that's probably where you start in supporting her.  I think that during that time, you should probably check in with her only as she's indicated she'll be open to it.  When she's ready, hear her out, listen to how she feels about it, validate what's valid, and ask her more questions until she feels understood.  You can express understanding without admitting culpability.  Then, make whatever commitment she needs that you're comfortable with.  If she brings it up again, in the future, repeat the listening and validating.  If she's open to it, you might suggest some self-soothing techniques, or offer something you can do for her when she's feeling worried. 

[Oncebitten]

NTG

Her main problem is she feels like she is doing everything by trying to forget... .and that I am doing nothing... .there isn't much I can do other than listen when she gets upset with me... promise it will never happen again and ask her what she needs from me

[Oncebitten]

Well for the... .?... time in 5 days she told me she was done and to let her go... .every time since I have talked to her and she has come back... .she sent me a text said she was done... do I reply l... .ignore it and just work on me?

[Oncebitten]

No more need for advice or support here I am done... .moving over to the detaching board