Is this what Male BPD Looks Like

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I hope you can help me figure out what I have just been through.  My ex-boyfriend and I broke up almost 3 months ago.  He kept go off on me for nothing.  I couldn’t understand why he would have such angry episodes, attack my character, insult me, and others terrible things he would say.  He was great for the first 8 months of our relationship but the last two months were very rocky.

He would buy me gifts all the time, always down to spend time together and text/talk all day.  He was one of the best boyfriends I’ve ever had.  He really loved me and wanted us to be a family in the future.  I had not been in a relationship for four years and wanted to take things slow and develop a strong relationship.  He gave me keys to his house and an open door to his life.   After about 8 months, he got tired of me being cautious and was ready to leave me.  About two times we had a heated discussion and he would curse and scream at me.  I told him I don’t like being cursed at and he said he would calm down.  Well we broke up over me not giving my all into the relationship (although I thought I was moving at a good pace).  A few days later, I had a sudden death in my family and he came back and resumed being a good boyfriend.
A month later is when it all went to crap.  I asked him three questions about a legal issue and he went OFF! Like he started insulting me, attacked my character, demeaned me in every way possible and I was shocked.  I didn’t deserve that and broke up with him.  A week later, I called him thinking clearly something must be going on with him for him to react so outlandish. (He did lose his job a few weeks prior so I thought his outburst had something to do with that).  I forgave him and decided to revisit the argument in a few weeks once we got back on the right track.  For the next two months he ran hot and cold.  One minute all over me, the next minute distancing himself and purposefully keeping me on edge about our relationship.  After two more big arguments where he told me to “F” off, that I wasn’t crap, that I was all kinds of things, my feelings changed towards him and I went silent.  Then he kept texting asking why I wasn’t speaking to him.  Finally, I thought I was being nice and got him some rose bushes for his yard.  I called him to let him know and he said let him know when I was on my way.  I texted him I was coming over an hour later and when I got there, he was gone.  So I called and he said he was at the store.  One thing led to another and he again blew up on me.  I said I am trying to be a blessing to you so why are you going off on me and he screamed “I know”. It was like he couldn’t help himself.

I went home and sent him a text stating he needed to get some help because his behavior is irrational and unacceptable and ended things. 

Seven weeks later, I see he is having a couple’s dinner (on FB) and I got jealous and called.  He was very happy to hear from me and things were fine for two days.  When I finally asked about us he got mad all over again.  I listened to him literally make up things that didn’t happen in our relationship like they were facts.  It was very odd.  He was reinforcing negative thoughts about me that simply didn’t apply to me.  To end this long story, I sent him an email outlining how he hurt me and why did he become so mean, etc.  He was so upset and aghast like he had no idea I thought he hurt me!  He said “you contacted me just to take shots at me”?  I was like no this is what happened and how I feel.  In come the insults, how his new girlfriend and him will be successful and he never wants to hear from me again. 

So it’s been a month since that argument and I am feeling a lot better than I did originally but I am just trying to figure out what the heck was I in?  I googled “angry negative personality” and all of these borderline personality forums appeared.  I never heard of it but after reading through some of the sites, it seems that he has some sort of disorder.  He has punched out windows, punched through walls, projects ALL of his issues on me, slammed things around, told me he has “angry” days but I had no idea what he was talking about.  His job history is somewhat spotty and his ex-wife was handling most of the financial things. There is a lot more but this is the jest of it.

Can anyone help me figure this out?  He jumped right into another relationship two or three weeks after I ended things.  I am so hurt now and can't understand why I am so affected by this?

[trainwrecked1]

I hope you can help me figure out what I have just been through.  My ex-boyfriend and I broke up almost 3 months ago.  He kept go off on me for nothing.  I couldn’t understand why he would have such angry episodes, attack my character, insult me, and others terrible things he would say.  He was great for the first 8 months of our relationship but the last two months were very rocky.

He would buy me gifts all the time, always down to spend time together and text/talk all day.  He was one of the best boyfriends I’ve ever had.  He really loved me and wanted us to be a family in the future.  I had not been in a relationship for four years and wanted to take things slow and develop a strong relationship.  He gave me keys to his house and an open door to his life.   After about 8 months, he got tired of me being cautious and was ready to leave me.  About two times we had a heated discussion and he would curse and scream at me.  I told him I don’t like being cursed at and he said he would calm down.  Well we broke up over me not giving my all into the relationship (although I thought I was moving at a good pace).  A few days later, I had a sudden death in my family and he came back and resumed being a good boyfriend.
A month later is when it all went to crap.  I asked him three questions about a legal issue and he went OFF! Like he started insulting me, attacked my character, demeaned me in every way possible and I was shocked.  I didn’t deserve that and broke up with him.  A week later, I called him thinking clearly something must be going on with him for him to react so outlandish. (He did lose his job a few weeks prior so I thought his outburst had something to do with that).  I forgave him and decided to revisit the argument in a few weeks once we got back on the right track.  For the next two months he ran hot and cold.  One minute all over me, the next minute distancing himself and purposefully keeping me on edge about our relationship.  After two more big arguments where he told me to “F” off, that I wasn’t crap, that I was all kinds of things, my feelings changed towards him and I went silent.  Then he kept texting asking why I wasn’t speaking to him.  Finally, I thought I was being nice and got him some rose bushes for his yard.  I called him to let him know and he said let him know when I was on my way.  I texted him I was coming over an hour later and when I got there, he was gone.  So I called and he said he was at the store.  One thing led to another and he again blew up on me.  I said I am trying to be a blessing to you so why are you going off on me and he screamed “I know”. It was like he couldn’t help himself.

I went home and sent him a text stating he needed to get some help because his behavior is irrational and unacceptable and ended things. 

Seven weeks later, I see he is having a couple’s dinner (on FB) and I got jealous and called.  He was very happy to hear from me and things were fine for two days.  When I finally asked about us he got mad all over again.  I listened to him literally make up things that didn’t happen in our relationship like they were facts.  It was very odd.  He was reinforcing negative thoughts about me that simply didn’t apply to me.  To end this long story, I sent him an email outlining how he hurt me and why did he become so mean, etc.  He was so upset and aghast like he had no idea I thought he hurt me!  He said “you contacted me just to take shots at me”?  I was like no this is what happened and how I feel.  In come the insults, how his new girlfriend and him will be successful and he never wants to hear from me again. 

So it’s been a month since that argument and I am feeling a lot better than I did originally but I am just trying to figure out what the heck was I in?  I googled “angry negative personality” and all of these borderline personality forums appeared.  I never heard of it but after reading through some of the sites, it seems that he has some sort of disorder.  He has punched out windows, punched through walls, projects ALL of his issues on me, slammed things around, told me he has “angry” days but I had no idea what he was talking about.  His job history is somewhat spotty and his ex-wife was handling most of the financial things. There is a lot more but this is the jest of it.

Can anyone help me figure this out?  He jumped right into another relationship two or three weeks after I ended things.  I am so hurt now and can't understand why I am so affected by this?

[UnforgivenII]

Welcome to the club. I am sorry for you. This is a club I never wanted to join.
All my hugs to you 

[Stripey77]

Yes, almost certainly, I'm afraid. I'm sorry you're here too, I'm sorry we're all here, but just so you know there are definitely other girls on here (like me) who had a male BPD in their lives... .a lot of the info out there seems to imply that it's a female thing... .I can assure you that it is not exclusively so.

You are in the right place, welcome on board. 

[rfriesen]

trainwrecked1,

Welcome to the family here  

I can relate to so much of your story, although I should maybe note that my ex is a woman and I'm a man, so I can't speak personally to your question about what a male BPD looks like. That said, my ex displayed many similar behaviour patterns. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of that - how confusing and painful it is, and I'm sorry that you're going through that too.

My ex is also undiagnosed and I don't really care about the labels. But so many of the stories on this site involved similar behaviour. I've found it helpful to read through these stories and see that what I experienced is not entirely unique or alien or something I can't relate to others' experiences. I think you'll find a lot of support here if you keep posting and read through some of the articles, e.g. those on detaching posted on the right side of this page ----->

People with BPD suffer from inner feelings of emptiness and a tremendous fear of being alone. They typically deal with the pain created by these feelings by seeking to form intense attachments to others. As this is essentially a survival strategy they have been practising all their lives, they can be very good at it -- incredibly charming and attentive to our needs and personalities, making us feel they understand us deeply and can't live without us. The idealisation this creates at the beginning of relationships can be incredibly intoxicating and powerful. But it's also unsustainable. The pwBPD is maintaining a facade that is bound to crack -- and often those of us in relationships with them also find ourselves maintaining a mirroring facade because we have been made to feel like we are perfect in our partner's eyes and that in turn can make us feel like we need to do whatever we can to maintain that image and the intensely loving/passionate feelings that our partner showers on us as a result. I.e. we end up walking on eggshells to make sure our partner stays in a loving phase and to avoid anything that would trigger their rage or devaluation.

The tremendous fear of abandonment and unbearable inner sense of shame of the pwBPD can make them lash out in very hurtful ways as a relationship starts to crumble. I felt I had shared a bond with my ex that was absolutely unbreakable, so much deeper than anything I'd ever experienced with anyone else. She seemed to need my love and attention more than I had ever felt needed by anyone. It scared me, but sucked me in at the same time, and I gave so much of myself trying to understand her pain and anger, feeling like I was the key to her happiness and also that she was the key to mine. When I finally realised that she was in fact entirely prepared to throw the relationship away and immediately look for a new connection, it was devastating. Easily the worst emotional pain I've ever dealt with. That was five and a half months ago, and it still hurts every day. But it is much better now. Time helps a lot. So does self-reflection and trying to make sense of what needs the relationship seemed to meet for me, of how I might have contributed to the unhealthy relationship dynamics, of what I want to learn from the experience.

Many of us here have struggled to find closure, because our exes ended things in such painful and confusing ways, and immediately moved on to their next relationship. Giving ourselves closure in such circumstances is really challenging. Keep reading and posting here and I think you'll find it truly helpful in processing your relationship and break-up. Good luck and be good to yourself!  

[Wood stock]

I experienced much of the same with my exbf of three years. We have been broken up for two months now, and I have YET over these last three years to EVER make any damn sense of his outbursts, projection, irresponsible behavior, and abuse. This site has helped me immensely, though, and I encourage you to keep reading and posting. It helps to know that you're not alone. Hugs to you!

[VitaminC]

Hi trainwrecked,

I'm glad you found this site and decided to post.  

It's hard to know from your description if what lies at the bottom of your ex-boyfriend's behaviour is Borderline Personality Disorder. It can be hard to diagnose, but you'll find a useful introduction here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder.

Would you have a look at those, assuming you haven't already, and see how well it fits?

While people with BPD, men or women, can be given to rages and unfair accusations, that would not be enough to qualify for even an unprofessional diagnosis of this disorder. Your ex may have anger issues that stem from any number of other disorders; it may be possible to have just plain old anger issues without that warranting a diagnosis of anything further.  

Let me say that I completely understand looking for answers that can help explain seemingly bizarre and hurtful behaviours. That's certainly how I ended up on this site, and I am very very glad that I did. I learned a lot, not just about BPD, but about myself - as have many members here. For that reason, I am very happy to be in this club, because it really is more like a family  Information is our friend, we just have to be careful to have the right information - not always easy.

Can you give us some insight into how you dealt with arguments in the past? How are you dealing with things now? Are you still in contact? Are you "over"?

Keep posting and let's see if we can work out what's what.  

[schwing]

Hi Trainwrecked1,



I'm sorry you went through this "train wreck" of a relationship, but what you describe sounds typical of relationships when one partner suffers from borderline personality disorder (BPD).

Can anyone help me figure this out?  He jumped right into another relationship two or three weeks after I ended things.  I am so hurt now and can't understand why I am so affected by this?

One of the criteria for the diagnosis of BPD is "A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation." So for people with BPD (pwBPD), they often go through series of relationships that run hot (idealization) and cold (devaluation). And often these relationships overlap because few pwBPD do well alone.

The ending of this relationship has affected you strongly probably because you had been so connected with him at the beginning of your relationship, and also the intensity of the ups and downs strengthened your attachment to him (consider looking up "trauma bonds". Finally, you could not get closure from this relationship because you could not even get agreement with him on why it ended. All of these factors make letting go, very difficult.

He was great for the first 8 months of our relationship but the last two months were very rocky.

One quality about pwBPD that I've observed, which can help you understand his behavior a little better, is that for pwBPD, feelings of intimacy and familiarity seem to be a trigger for their disordered feelings (i.e., fear of abandonment). So this might explain how during the first 8 months of your relationship, his behavior was excellent; because during that time, you were still more or less strangers. But as you spent more time with him, as his familiarity towards you developed, he probably started to have to deal with more and more disordered feelings.

I couldn’t understand why he would have such angry episodes, attack my character, insult me, and others terrible things he would say.   

You see, when his disordered feelings (fear of abandonment) started to overwhelm him, he started to imagine (imagined abandonment) that you would abandon/betray him. And this is why he expressed these angry episodes. He doesn't understand why he feels this way (because of his disorder) and so he chooses to blame you for his feelings.

After two more big arguments where he told me to “F” off, that I wasn’t crap, that I was all kinds of things, my feelings changed towards him and I went silent.  Then he kept texting asking why I wasn’t speaking to him. 

And when his disordered feelings die down, he couldn't remember why he left you in the first place and tried to "recycle" you.

One thing led to another and he again blew up on me.  I said I am trying to be a blessing to you so why are you going off on me and he screamed “I know”. It was like he couldn’t help himself.

Another quality of pwBPD, is that they have very little or next to no ability to regulate their emotions; some call it "emotional dysregulation disorder." So when he is experiencing his disordered emotions, such as his imagining that you are going to abandon/betray him, he has next to no ability to temper those emotions. So in many ways, he cannot help himself.

When I finally asked about us he got mad all over again.  I listened to him literally make up things that didn’t happen in our relationship like they were facts.  It was very odd.  He was reinforcing negative thoughts about me that simply didn’t apply to me. 

One of the common ways in which pwBPD protect themselves (i.e. defense mechanisms) is to "project" any thoughts or feelings they cannot accept of or about themselves. So even though he was the one who raged against you, he was the one who was experiencing all these disordered feelings from which he could not help himself, as a defense mechanism, he re-imagines that it was you who exhibited all these disordered behaviors.

In come the insults, how his new girlfriend and him will be successful and he never wants to hear from me again. 

The biggest delusion, that I've observed pwBPD seem to entertain, is that if only they find the "right" person, then they would not have all these relationship issues. And in the beginning of all their relationships, they want to believe that they have finally found the "right" person who won't (they say) betray, abandon, denigrate them; but what they are really looking for is the "right" person who won't trigger their disordered emotions. And no such person exists as far as I'm concerned. Because the problem isn't with other people, it's with themselves. And until they start facing that fact, they are just going to continue with their pattern of unstable interpersonal relationships.

I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[trainwrecked1]

WOW! After reading your replies, I feel such a sense of relief and it's like a lightbulb moment.  At least there was a reason for it all.

Here is a list of the things he's told me about or I experienced:

1. He punched out a window about 8 years ago. (he told me)
2. He made holes in the wall by slamming the door during one of his "angry days" (he told me)
3. His ex-wife left him twice but he always said he didn't know why, just that she was unhappy.
4. He would go ballistic over very small issues (did it three times and I ended things after the last one
5. He held a grudge for months over something I apologized for and made a complete amends.  He just kept using that as a reason to be or mistreat me.
6. I always felt he was coming on too strong but thought it was me (since I hadn't been in a relationship in years)
7.  He owned his own house and we met at work, but it appears his job history is spotty.  His ex-wife was the main bread winner.
8. He was easily angered by other people and had a negative outlook on life. But again I thought I was just overly optimistic about life... ..
9. He seems to have solid long friendships with about 4 people.
10. He always felt abandoned by his dad even though his stepdad raised him since he was 3.
11.  I felt he projected things onto me that wasn't an issue of mine, like he was talking about another person or at least that's how foreign it felt.
12.  It appears he never took time out for himself after his wife left him.  He started dating another woman a few weeks later.  Then after he, me.

I am embarrassed that I still have feelings for him after how he spoke towards me, especially the last time.  I was looking for answers and sent him an email with a list of questions on why he hurt me and did some of the confusing things he did.  He went OFF!. He really seemed like he had no idea I felt that way and refused to answer me.  Texted me "I read your nasty email and you will never hear from me again. I hope you find the right guy for you. Good luck".  After some angry text messages back and forth, he called me and was upset because "I was taking shots at him".  He honestly sounded hurt. It was like he expected some love letter... ..  I said I'm not taking shots, I have questions.  He said "no answer for you" and started insulting me.  I fought back and he hung up and blocked me everywhere (with provocation from me. I wanted me to block me so I wouldn't be tempted to look at his social media.  If I didn't look the first time, I would have never broken no contact).

From what I know, he never lied to me so when he told me how this new woman liked him and it was thee first time someone really liked him. I believed he was telling me the truth.  It never dawned on me that he could be mad that I had ended things 7 weeks prior.  He didn't throw her up in my face but I do believe he through in some unnecessary information.  He said the same thing about her that he did about me but not sure if he even realized it.

I'm really disappointed in myself for not walking away the first time.  I am mad at myself for still caring about him.  And I am REALLY mad at myself because I know he will never contact me again and feel so rejected and undesired. That he's happy with his new woman and she get the affection I used to receive. But I also lost two extremely close family members a few months ago so I think my grief may have something to do with this.

[bunny4523]

Trainwrecked,

I understand you being angry at yourself for tolerating the behavior and not leaving the first time but try to give yourself a break.  I went through that at first too but it's one of those things that you did the best you could in the moment.  Looking back now, of course you see the signs but when you were in the moment... .you were still trying to figure it out and that is a great quality to have. You want to work on relationships without just throwing in the towell at the first sign of trouble.

Make sure you read alot of the articles and videos on this sight.  They are really helpful.  One of the hardest things for me to accept was not having an amicable breakup.   They aren't capable of it, they need to believe it was all you.  Otherwise they get so lost that it can destroy them.  One of the things I had to do was write things out and let them go.  I needed to love myself enough to forgive and move on.  I also had to push out all the negative thoughts he tried to convince me that I was.  I had to know it wasn't true and to quit hanigng on to hearing it from him one day.  I had to know better.  I remember my friends getting frustrated that I would even entertain his accusations of me.  I've always been friends with my ex's but not this ex... . 

I also had a pretty good 8 months and then once I moved in with him/accepted his proposal... .everything just started unraveling.  It was unreal... .It was like night and day... .definately jeckel and hyde.  I couldn't grasp it and it took me a couple months to process it and realize there was a serious issue I was dealing with.  I left and then found out about his diagnosis.  It did help me to get rid of some of the anger but not all of it.  Sick or not, how dare he treat me that way.  The only way I could show him I was better than that and did not deserve that treatment was to walk away and stay away. 

Hang in there and continue to post - you were strong enough to leave, you are strong enough to stay away.  I know feeling devalued and discarded isn't fun but hold your head high because that isn't who you are.  It is only in his head.  Stay out of his head and surround yourself with people that build you up.

Bunny

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi trainwrecked-

I too welcome you.  Many things you mention in your posts indicate traits of the disorder, and you will find plenty of input here from folks who have been there and understand.

I'm really disappointed in myself for not walking away the first time.  I am mad at myself for still caring about him.  And I am REALLY mad at myself because I know he will never contact me again and feel so rejected and undesired. That he's happy with his new woman and she get the affection I used to receive. But I also lost two extremely close family members a few months ago so I think my grief may have something to do with this.

I'm sorry you're feeling those, although the good news is you can use them as motivation fuel for detaching and healing, which does and will happen, it's just a matter of working through it.

You've gotten a lot of good input already, and don't know if you've poked around on the site, but here are a couple of articles which may speak to where you are right now:

Surviving a Break-Up

Borderline Relationship

Take care of you!

[trainwrecked1]

So are you guys letting me know none of what I thought was a relationship was real?  That he never really felt much as he acted like?

He was married and they separated for 3 years and got back together.  She ultimately left him again but I always thought she still loved him.  I spent a lot of time with her surrounding the kids and although she never gave me any problems, she was clearly carrying a torch.  Doesn't that prove he has some capacity to love? 

I know he will never apologize because not ONE time did he accept responsibility for anything.  Anytime I voiced some concern, he turned it around on me like 1) he was only joking or 2) I had it all wrong.  Never was he wrong or said sorry... .ever.  How is that possible and continue living happily?

[trainwrecked1]

This is really helpful.  I've read it four times already.  Thank you for taking the time to breakdown my post.  It's very appreciated Schwing. :-) :-):-)

Hi Trainwrecked1,



I'm sorry you went through this "train wreck" of a relationship, but what you describe sounds typical of relationships when one partner suffers from borderline personality disorder (BPD).


I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[fromheeltoheal]

So are you guys letting me know none of what I thought was a relationship was real?  That he never really felt much as he acted like?

Everyone's different, and although there are significant similarities, which is why so many people connect here and read stories they could have written, it's best to take what we have to say and see if it applies to your relationship and him specifically.  And of course it takes two to tango, it's never all the borderline's "fault", we were as much in the relationship as they were, but it can be very confusing and chaotic in a relationship with a borderline.  It's good to connect here coming out of that because one, borderline personality disorder really is a thing, you're not crazy, and two, you're not alone.

Doesn't that prove he has some capacity to love? 

He at least has the capacity to attach, which is everything to borderlines, whether or not he "loved" her or you will become clear with time as you detach.

I know he will never apologize because not ONE time did he accept responsibility for anything... .How is that possible and continue living happily?

That's common with the disorder, because if he accepted responsibility for anything he'd have to accept responsibility for everything, the floodgates would open and he'd melt into a puddle of shame.  Standard borderline there, apply as applicable.

[Lilyroze]

He was married and they separated for 3 years and got back together.  She ultimately left him again but I always thought she still loved him.  I spent a lot of time with her surrounding the kids and although she never gave me any problems, she was clearly carrying a torch.  :)oesn't that prove he has some capacity to love?  

I would say there might have been love involved, with the 'non' the wife. Either for the kids, sense of family, her religion, perhaps care taking, or love she tried again. Who knows why she tried again or loved, but you say she did. I think if you look close you will see a pattern.

If he has BPD then was she an attachment or love? So if she never caused problems, clearly she was healthy to know boundaries. So giving him credit for her love is a stretch in my opinion.


That doesn't mean he doesn't love, or love in his way, but base that on him and not someone kind enough to love or try again. Everyone has their own views on the world, perceptions, ideas, love or values. I don't know if he has BPD or loves but I do know you have some patterns you can examine.

Learn from this experience. Knowledge is power! Whilst on this journey take care of you. Give your self love, care and compassion. Where do you want to go from here?

[schwing]

So are you guys letting me know none of what I thought was a relationship was real?  That he never really felt much as he acted like?

The relationship was real in that the feelings and experiences you had were real and so were his, but ultimately the way you experience feelings is very different from the way he experiences feelings. Your attachment to him was real; his attachment to you was real, but you are not disordered and he is, so how you two experience attachments are different.

For disordered people, they can go through hot/cold (idealized/devalued) in a way that you and I could not. What he felt was real but it is in the nature of his disorder that he can suddenly detach from you (and re-attached to you).

He was married and they separated for 3 years and got back together.  She ultimately left him again but I always thought she still loved him. 

You probably can discard the majority of whatever he told you about his ex-wife... .more than likely he was talking about himself or some aspect of himself projected onto her.  Chances are his ex-wife really struggled to make it work but had to give up and save herself. For all we know, she could be posting here anonymously.

I spent a lot of time with her surrounding the kids and although she never gave me any problems, she was clearly carrying a torch.  Doesn't that prove he has some capacity to love? 

What does the way he treated you in your relationship tell you about his capacity to love? I imagine she went through more or less the same as you only spread out over three years plus throw in a couple of children.

I know he will never apologize because not ONE time did he accept responsibility for anything.  Anytime I voiced some concern, he turned it around on me like 1) he was only joking or 2) I had it all wrong.  Never was he wrong or said sorry... .ever.  How is that possible and continue living happily?

It isn't possible to live this way in an interpersonal relationship with anyone. Perhaps you can live this way if you find a steady supply of people who will tolerate it for sometime before needing to find someone else. This is probably how a lot of pwBPD live.

[fromheeltoheal]

It isn't possible to live this way in an interpersonal relationship with anyone. Perhaps you can live this way if you find a steady supply of people who will tolerate it for sometime before needing to find someone else. This is probably how a lot of pwBPD live.

True in my ex's case; she categorized her boyfriends by year, since all of her relationships lasted a year or less, and she was dumbfounded by how they all got "evil" and "mean" on their way out the door.  I know how they felt.  And then she got to play victim, which was handy for use in attaching to the next suitor.  Sad really, she was doing the best she could with what she had and it still resulted in massive pain, and yet, zero responsibility.

[rfriesen]

So are you guys letting me know none of what I thought was a relationship was real?  That he never really felt much as he acted like?

As others have noted, the relationship was real to the extent it happened, you were there and shared all its moments and upheavals with him, etc. The feelings were almost certainly real for both of you as well, unless you think he was actually faking the feelings he expressed, and it doesn't sound like you feel that was the case. Now, whether the feelings amount to love, that's ultimately for you to decide based on your understanding of love and how the relationship unfolded.

Maybe there's no clear answer and that's the hardest thing of all to accept. Personally, I still struggle to process the fact that my ex felt so deeply in love with me (and I do believe she was sincere in those moments) yet could turn around moments later and express the deepest hatred for me. I've never felt someone need me so desperately and I've never had someone tell me "I hate you so much!" so often. Like you, I have trouble understanding how I stayed after my ex started showing me this side of herself. It hurt like hell to be told how much she hates me. But she would turn around and beg for me not to leave her, and she would pour so much intense desperation and longing into it that I actually felt I simply couldn't leave her. That was a real mistake and one I really regret. By not ending things only once and dealing with the pain of breaking up only once, I allowed things to drag on for another 8 months and it was brutal by the end.

I still think of her all the time, though my feelings are much more balanced now. It still hurts, though. I never would have thought I could be so undone by a relationship before, but here I am and it does me no good to pretend otherwise. One lesson that has finally begun sinking in is that I just have to accept that it takes as long as it takes to let the feelings play out. I don't try to fight them anymore. I also don't try to fight my mind as it looks to justify, explain, reject, rage against, minimize, or exaggerate the feelings. I try to just observe the feelings and my mind spinning, and I've found much greater calm by simply observing and letting go of trying to control my thoughts and feelings. I focus on what I can do each day - in terms of work, exercise, the way I treat others and myself, etc.

Be kind to yourself and accept that you're feeling a lot of hard, painful feelings because you're human and vulnerable as we all are. It's not a pleasant experience, that's for sure, but it can be a hell of a learning experience.

[trainwrecked1]

Thanks guys.  It's really weird because before I found out he was seeing someone else, I was doing great.  I was proud of myself that I ended things.  But these last four weeks have been hard.

I lost my aunt who was the closest person to me in my life earlier this year.  I don't allow myself to think about her deeply because I wouldn't be able to function.  I think with losing her and my grandmother, taking another loss (even though he's alive) was just too much.  I am crying everyday at the drop of a dime and don't know who to attribute these feelings to.  My ex seems to be the logical choice since he moved on so quickly and rejected me when we got back in contact.  I haven't seen him in almost three months.

My ex and I never had intercourse.  He wanted to wait until marriage and so did I.  Granted, we kissed, spend the night, etc but no sex. So he wasn't using me for anything.  He seemed genuine in his desire for a good relationship without sex clouding our mind and a more meaningful marriage experience.  Even towards the end, he didn't try anything to get something out of all the money he spent in our time together, like some guys would have.  But now he said marriage wasn't something he wanted for a long time and got the distinct impression he is sexually involved with the new girl.  Then two weeks ago, I found out he was flirting with another woman and for some reason, that made me happy.  Everything isn't what he made it out to be if he's trying to hook another woman. 

I'm going to therapy in a week or two to deal with my grief and see where this experience with him falls.  I can't be sure of anything right now... .can barely hold a thought in my mind for long.  Lol

[rfriesen]

I am crying everyday at the drop of a dime and don't know who to attribute these feelings to.  My ex seems to be the logical choice since he moved on so quickly and rejected me when we got back in contact.

You have been through a lot and suffered some big losses lately. It's understandable that you're grieving these various losses and are sometimes overwhelmed by emotion. It may be that your interactions with your ex are the most immediate trigger for those emotions, but I think you'll find over time that the deep emotions that have come to the surface now come from parts of you that were there long before your relationship with your ex. It's the curse and the gift of these kinds of relationships that they can shake us to our core and force us to face parts of our emotional make-up that otherwise lie in the background or buried deep within us. The pain we can't avoid -- it can be overwhelming after these relationships end. The gift can be hard to accept, but it is a powerful one - the chance to examine ourselves, our deepest needs, wants, fears, and hopes. It's really a chance to take stock of our patterns of behaviour, of what we truly want in life, and of whether those patterns of behaviour we've developed throughout our lives will actually take us towards that life we envision for ourselves.

So he wasn't using me for anything.  He seemed genuine in his desire for a good relationship without sex clouding our mind and a more meaningful marriage experience.

"use" is a loaded term. But certainly you were meeting some of each other's needs/desires/wants in a relationship, or you wouldn't have continued seeing each other, and you wouldn't still be thinking of him and what you shared. We can "use" our partners not only to fulfill physical needs and desires, but also emotional ones. With that in mind, what needs of yours do you think your ex fulfilled, at least for a while, so that you still feel such a powerful connection to him? (or at least still have thoughts related to him even when you might not want to?)

I'm going to therapy in a week or two to deal with my grief and see where this experience with him falls.  I can't be sure of anything right now... .can barely hold a thought in my mind for long.  Lol

Great that you're going to therapy. Doing so was a huge help to me and to many others who have described their experiences here. I think you'll find that it will help you, gradually, to turn your mental and emotional focus away from your ex and towards yourself and working through all that this experience has brought to the surface for you.

[trainwrecked1]

Am I supposed to keep asking questions on this thread or do I start another one?

[fromheeltoheal]

Am I supposed to keep asking questions on this thread or do I start another one?

This one's fine trainwrecked, what's on your mind?

[trainwrecked1]

When I wrote him the email asking for the reasons why he would go off on me and the like, he got mad and accused me of taking shots at him.

Why would someone with BPD think asking about unacceptable behavior is "taking shots"?  Why would he refuse to answer my questions when HE asked me to say what was on my mind.

Also, he would often say "you are making me think and I don't want to think right now", what is that?  Like it would be as simple as asking if he wanted coffee or tea... ..

Lastly, he didn't want to make plans for things. I never understood that thinking for obvious reasons.  He wanted to "take the day as it comes" all of the time.  Is that the usual attitude of someone with this issue?

[fromheeltoheal]

Why would someone with BPD think asking about unacceptable behavior is "taking shots"?  Why would he refuse to answer my questions when HE asked me to say what was on my mind.

Because he probably interpreted the email as an attack and you aren't happy with him, so fear of abandonment, you're going to leave him.  Plus, borderlines typically won't take responsibility for anything, that hurts too much, so it feels better to blame whomever, a way to deflect taking any responsibility.

Also, he would often say "you are making me think and I don't want to think right now", what is that?  Like it would be as simple as asking if he wanted coffee or tea... ..

Borderlines need to have a tightly controlled model of the world in their heads, it's the way to deal with intense emotions and the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, so you making him "think" could potentially stir up his belief system, which is likely fragile, and if he doubts himself at all the whole thing could come crashing down.  So not so much "thinking", but entertaining alternate perspectives, is dangerous for him.

Lastly, he didn't want to make plans for things. I never understood that thinking for obvious reasons.  He wanted to "take the day as it comes" all of the time.  Is that the usual attitude of someone with this issue?

With unstable moods, intense emotions, and general mental chaos, a borderline does not know how they're going to feel one moment to the next, and they're not in control of it, so it's hard to make plans since the emotion that shows up at the time of the plan may not be ideal; better to just go with the flow.  We all do that to some extent, end up in a bad mood the day our vacation starts or whatever, but we can usually adjust our psychology by changing what we focus on and what we do, as adults do, much more difficult for folks with the disorder.

[trainwrecked1]

Why would someone with BPD think asking about unacceptable behavior is "taking shots"?  Why would he refuse to answer my questions when HE asked me to say what was on my mind.

Because he probably interpreted the email as an attack and you aren't happy with him, so fear of abandonment, you're going to leave him.  Plus, borderlines typically won't take responsibility for anything, that hurts too much, so it feels better to blame whomever, a way to deflect taking any responsibility.

We had been over for two months (plus he already moved on with another woman) when we had this communication.  So by getting angry and accuse me of "taking shots" he is refusing to acknowledge his behavior so he doesn't take responsibility for what happened?  Am I reading that right?

Are pwBPD aware that most people do not think the same way they do?  Are they aware of their behavior and how irrational it is or do they not get it genuinely?

[fromheeltoheal]

We had been over for two months (plus he already moved on with another woman) when we had this communication.  So by getting angry and accuse me of "taking shots" he is refusing to acknowledge his behavior so he doesn't take responsibility for what happened?  Am I reading that right?

Yeah, sorry, to be more clear, a borderline hates to lose an attachment, it's the worst thing that can happen, so even if the relationship is over, even if they're with someone else, which is mandatory for someone with a need to attach, someone with the disorder will still want to retain an emotional attachment with an ex.  And yes, BPD is a shame-based disorder, so him taking any responsibility for what happened between you would result in feelings of shame that he doesn't want to feel, so accusing you of "taking shots" is easier and feels better.  That has little to do with open, honest communication and emotional vulnerability, and the thing you have control over is how much you let it affect you.  

Are pwBPD aware that most people do not think the same way they do?  Are they aware of their behavior and how irrational it is or do they not get it genuinely?

Everyone's different, and all humans feel they're "different" to some degree at some point, although my ex got that feeling, and she compensated by believing she was "better than" everyone, took on narcissistic traits, irritating, but it worked for her to an extent.  She would also get bewildered or dumbfounded a lot, when it became clear that her interpretation of something was so far off everyone else's, very confusing for her, sad for me.

Order becomes disorder within the first few years of life, so anything that shows up in adult life is subconscious and shows up as feelings, not an articulate version of what's really going on, and that too is true for most of us yes?  

[trainwrecked1]

Something I have been thinking about since I found the forum... .do you guys think he may already know he has this illness and just not telling people?

I asked him once why was his view on things negative and he said he had depression sometimes.  Then he would say things like he had an "angry day" but I had no idea what that meant other than the normal bad/angry days anyone else would have.  Looking back over things, it seems like he was warning me or at the very least, he may have heard he has a problem before.

Also, his mom and friends never said one word to me about his behavior... .wouldn't they know by now?  I know he had a rough going with his mom as a teen and lived with some other folks for a while.  So much so that he calls the other lady mom too.  But him and his bio mom have a pretty good relationship now from what I could tell.  They seem rather close.  His best friend knows my exbf's ex wife very well and he even intervened to help save their marriage so wouldn't he know too?  Or only the romantic partner gets this treatment?

[schwing]

Hi Trainwrecked1,

Something I have been thinking about since I found the forum... .do you guys think he may already know he has this illness and just not telling people?

I think some of the BPD loved ones in these forums have at one point or another been diagnosed but it is within the nature of this disorder to "dissociate" or "disconnect" from this information.

For the same reason why people with BPD sometimes cannot tolerate admitting to mistakes or accepting "fault", they can deny (from themselves) that they have a problem.

I asked him once why was his view on things negative and he said he had depression sometimes.  Then he would say things like he had an "angry day" but I had no idea what that meant other than the normal bad/angry days anyone else would have.  Looking back over things, it seems like he was warning me or at the very least, he may have heard he has a problem before.

It's one thing to accept that some days you get "angry" and another thing to accept that you have a diagnosed disorder.  Everyone can get angry. But if you exhibit "splitting behavior" you might devalue someone who has a disorder (including yourself).

Also, his mom and friends never said one word to me about his behavior... .wouldn't they know by now?  I know he had a rough going with his mom as a teen and lived with some other folks for a while.  So much so that he calls the other lady mom too. 

Family members of pwBPD learn how to minimize the amount of conflict between themselves and their BPD loved ones (see the "coping" forums). Bringing up something like this to a BPD loved one's prospective partner is a sure-fire way to become targeted for sometime.

Also, the family members only hear the distorted perspective from their BPD loved ones, sometimes family members are led to believe that their BPD loved one seems to only date/select damaged people and don't realize a lot of these distorted perspectives are in fact projection.

But him and his bio mom have a pretty good relationship now from what I could tell.  They seem rather close.  His best friend knows my exbf's ex wife very well and he even intervened to help save their marriage so wouldn't he know too?  Or only the romantic partner gets this treatment?

Family members get this treatment too but probably less so when you are not living with your BPD loved one.  When you live with them, you get to see this behavior first hand.