Sick or bad person?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My ex BPD ( claimes to be bipolar and not BPD) continues to cling on to me with sad phone calls text and emails. She want sympathy as she is going trauma , had a hard life and is sick. She has gotten help - therapy , meds , nurofeedback , dbt. However she continues the same bad behaviors-  pathological lying, gaslighting , manipulating. When confronted she blames her illness. Is it possible she is sick but also a bad selfish person? Thoughts

[Jacidrinkswine]

My ex BPD ( claimes to be bipolar and not BPD) continues to cling on to me with sad phone calls text and emails. She want sympathy as she is going trauma , had a hard life and is sick. She has gotten help - therapy , meds , nurofeedback , dbt. However she continues the same bad behaviors-  pathological lying, gaslighting , manipulating. When confronted she blames her illness. Is it possible she is sick but also a bad selfish person? Thoughts

[eprogeny]

My ex BPD ( claimes to be bipolar and not BPD) continues to cling on to me with sad phone calls text and emails. She want sympathy as she is going trauma , had a hard life and is sick. She has gotten help - therapy , meds , nurofeedback , dbt. However she continues the same bad behaviors-  pathological lying, gaslighting , manipulating. When confronted she blames her illness. Is it possible she is sick but also a bad selfish person? Thoughts

Yes, of course that is possible.  We can never know how much of a person's behavior is because of their illness or not, but it's definitely possible to be a "bad" person as well as mentally ill. 

In the end, does it make a difference to you if the person is bad vs. ill when it comes to the behaviors? 

[Moselle]

Is it possible she is sick but also a bad selfish person? Thoughts

My personal opinion is that they are sick not bad.

They, however believe they are bad or evil. They cut to let the badness out.

[Jacidrinkswine]

What is someone to do if they keep acting badly? Despite mental health services?

[tryingsome]

I'll be blunt, they (and strictly speaking of my ex) are bad people.
They have their good moments, able to accomplish so much, and can reach and do touch the people around. And all the bad moments might stem from their illness. For that they do deserve a great deal of compassion.
But good/bad is obviously a scale. What I might conclude as good and what another as bad is highly objective.
However, for me, the pwBPD was far the worst human I have MET. Not to say they are worst people out there, and not to say they don't deserve some kindness from us.
But if we look at the good things; does this person bring those to your life--it is very little, or at least--with little substance.
Most words are spoken in direct opposition to the actions they display. At times I wonder if we make the illness the victim.

Yet, people can change. And what was once something low can be a very great thing in the future. There is always hope and growth for them; but that is not your part to play. You may stay, and perhaps one day they can be good, when their actions match their thoughts--or you may not be there. This might not be that time. There is a difference in believing the best in people and knowing who they are at a given time.

[eprogeny]

At times I wonder if we make the illness the victim.

I have struggled with this, too.  It is difficult for me to separate the person from the illness sometimes, and at other times I think it would be wrong to do so.

This is where I have split the difference so that I do not fault my uBPDexgf for the behaviors born of her illness, but I do hold her accountable for her failure to manage her symptoms.  For me, that has allowed me to feel as if I am laying the blame where, and when, I should.

I don't know if that's appropriate, or fair, but it is the only way I've managed to withdraw from the toxicity of the relationship.  Before I got to that point, I was stuck in the recycling with her - always feeling like I had been victimized from someone who had done nothing wrong.  And that led to me feeling like it was wrong, unfair, and insane to need to leave out of self-protection.

I am still sad, but more and more I am feeling relieved.  I know I've made the right decision.  And I think holding our former partners accountable for what actually is in their control - and forgiving what is not - is something we have the right, and the responsibility, to do.

A further thought on the Op's original question... .Whether or not they are bad people independent from their illness is something hard to determine.  I tend to believe most people are good - if they weren't, the world would be far worse than it is now, you know? 

Imagine it this way... .say your ex spoke a foreign language, and as a result of not speaking your language she behaved in awful ways.  She decides to take some language classes but so far still can't communicate effectively, and her behaviors are still the same.  Does this make her a bad person?  Or does it make her someone who needs more language lessons?

My question is whether or not your ex is actually applying any of the therapeutic lessons she is learning in any of the situations.  If she is applying them, even a little, then that is progress - and there is hope she will continue to make more progress.  If she is not applying them - at all - and especially if she is not committed to her therapy, then I would have to think she is simply going through the motions with the therapy and using the illness itself as her shield against blame.  Chances are, she's doing the latter.

[Jacidrinkswine]

In reply to trying some:
The therapy has helped with outburst and temper tantrums. However the lying and manipulation have continued. She want sympathy for her illness when it fits her agenda of keeping me in her life. When caught in a blatant lie she blames her fear of loosing me or desire to get me to love her. Her tactics are part of the FOG. Fear- blackmail and threats of reputational and financial harm. Than switches to obligation and guilt- she would never leave me if I was sick - or no one else can help her.   

[valet]

We're all selfish people. We wouldn't keep ourselves engaged in any capacity (emotionally or otherwise) if it didn't provide us something which we perceive we lack. I'd be cautious labeling her. That isn't a strong example of good boundaries.

Remember, in the end we are the only people responsible for our peace of mind. Your ex might behave in the ways that she does because she pathologically can't understand that she is separate from others at some fundamental emotional level. And that's her struggle, not yours.

Why do you stay engaged if the engagement only prevents you from detaching?

[Moselle]

Remember, in the end we are the only people responsible for our peace of mind.

Spot on valet

[unsureuncertain]

Isn't this the person that you thought was pregnant? Did you ever find out if she was? Obviously this would impact the way I would handle the situation if I knew I needed to coparent for the next 18 years.

[Jacidrinkswine]

Yes - she has told me many things. That she lied about taking the pill, than she placed semen from her body inside of her. Said she prayed to get pregnant to have something to hold on to of me . She had told me varrying stories about abortion . I truly do not know what to believe. As sick as she is she is highly intelagent and tells stories that seem untrue but impossible to disprove.

[unsureuncertain]

Communication is key in my opinion. I am co-parenting a child who I initially did not want. We were NC most of the pregnancy at my choice which angered her.It has cost me a lot of money in legal expenses as I tried to argue that is sick and unfit. I learned that Courts are hesitant to take kids from their mothers and I was ordered to pay child support. At this point, for my child, peace of mind and health, I try to get along with my son's mother which means I force myself to look the other way and try to support her from a distance. It's not a situation I would ever choose but life happens and I am making the best of it, grateful for my healthy child.