Setting boundaries learning curve...

[Depression = 72% of members]

So I’ve been using the tools here to try to pull myself slowly out of a devaluation and silent treatment phase that really felt like the end for my uBPD/NPDw and I really think I have been doing fairly well.  I have weathered some fairly good rages with calm, firm and validating responses while setting a firm boundary that I don’t want to or deserve to be spoken to like that, and it’s been working.  I have worked daily on self-validation and started to work on re-establishing healthy relationships and activities while still keeping up with all the things important on the home front.  Finally, I have kept positive communication out there throughout each day and if she tries to undermine that with little or no response, I’m not letting it bother me…water off a ducks back.

Ok, so I’ve set the language/treatment boundary and not taken the bate when pushed.  The other night she tried to access my phone, but I had changed the password and let her know that was a boundary for me as well, that it’s the principal of trust and I explained to her that I don’t try to pry into her phone as I trust her word and her commitment to the vows we made and whatever is in there is her business, and she has been ok with that.

So here was my challenge and slight slip, but I am going to continue to stand my ground.  Last night around the table I asked my son (her step son) if he had started drivers ed yet and he said he had started the on-line portion.  She and I had discussed a B average threshold before classes are taken etc. and my son has been meeting that, though we have not quite finished the quarter.  So I had been corresponding with my ex-wife about classes and she took him to sign up and to the DMV for his permit so I relented and let her know that if my son didn’t keep his B average promise that I would not be on board with the final driving piece required to get his license. 

Ok, cut to the chase, after dinner my uBPD/NPDw  starts in on me about not being in the loop, that I ignore her and I am doing things behind her back etc, etc, etc.  I don’t get excited, I address her feelings and validate and at a point I have to step away and set the boundary that I don’t want her to talk to me that way.  Well, things calm down and she brings up one more time how she feels and I go to validate and she demands to see the email chain between my ex-wife and I and I tell her no that is a boundary and this is a conversation is not about the semantics of my emails with my ex-wife but about how she is feeling that I didn’t communicate the process better with her.  Well… she did NOT take that well.  She boiled and got quite agitated that I wouldn’t show her, so I started to relent and opened my email…but then I caught myself and said no and reiterated that was an inappropriate boundary based on what the conversation is.  My big slip, she kept in on me and I said “because it’s none of your business…”, wrong answer but I was getting rattled.  So at this point she goes off and not of course nothing is her business so nothing she does is my business complete with the implied threats turning my boundary about email into vailed threats of “well I guess I won’t know what she’s doing on her days off or on the weekend, and that could be anything…because it’s none of my business…”

Well, you guessed it…we’re back to the silent treatment and I’m sure distance and devaluation to follow.  But, I have to say that was my only slip, I calmly explained it as a response to being rattled by her tact of swearing and yelling and that this would always be a boundary in these types of situations as this was a simple conversation about communication and the way she and I work together to make decisions about raising our kids and I understand that, but to trace it all the way back to my entire email exchange with my ex-wife was inappropriate and unnecessary.

Anyway, that’s my story and I am going to remain strong and balance through this next wave as I am very interested to see how using the correct communication tools, keeping positive, healthy, connected with positive friends/family and self-validating will hopefully reduce the strength and duration of the silent/devaluation.  I think this is a very important test to see if this is something I can co-exist with and hopefully come back to a better relationship with my uBPD/NPDw through.

Thanks for listening.

NewStart

[NewStart]

So I’ve been using the tools here to try to pull myself slowly out of a devaluation and silent treatment phase that really felt like the end for my uBPD/NPDw and I really think I have been doing fairly well.  I have weathered some fairly good rages with calm, firm and validating responses while setting a firm boundary that I don’t want to or deserve to be spoken to like that, and it’s been working.  I have worked daily on self-validation and started to work on re-establishing healthy relationships and activities while still keeping up with all the things important on the home front.  Finally, I have kept positive communication out there throughout each day and if she tries to undermine that with little or no response, I’m not letting it bother me…water off a ducks back.

Ok, so I’ve set the language/treatment boundary and not taken the bate when pushed.  The other night she tried to access my phone, but I had changed the password and let her know that was a boundary for me as well, that it’s the principal of trust and I explained to her that I don’t try to pry into her phone as I trust her word and her commitment to the vows we made and whatever is in there is her business, and she has been ok with that.

So here was my challenge and slight slip, but I am going to continue to stand my ground.  Last night around the table I asked my son (her step son) if he had started drivers ed yet and he said he had started the on-line portion.  She and I had discussed a B average threshold before classes are taken etc. and my son has been meeting that, though we have not quite finished the quarter.  So I had been corresponding with my ex-wife about classes and she took him to sign up and to the DMV for his permit so I relented and let her know that if my son didn’t keep his B average promise that I would not be on board with the final driving piece required to get his license. 

Ok, cut to the chase, after dinner my uBPD/NPDw  starts in on me about not being in the loop, that I ignore her and I am doing things behind her back etc, etc, etc.  I don’t get excited, I address her feelings and validate and at a point I have to step away and set the boundary that I don’t want her to talk to me that way.  Well, things calm down and she brings up one more time how she feels and I go to validate and she demands to see the email chain between my ex-wife and I and I tell her no that is a boundary and this is a conversation is not about the semantics of my emails with my ex-wife but about how she is feeling that I didn’t communicate the process better with her.  Well… she did NOT take that well.  She boiled and got quite agitated that I wouldn’t show her, so I started to relent and opened my email…but then I caught myself and said no and reiterated that was an inappropriate boundary based on what the conversation is.  My big slip, she kept in on me and I said “because it’s none of your business…”, wrong answer but I was getting rattled.  So at this point she goes off and not of course nothing is her business so nothing she does is my business complete with the implied threats turning my boundary about email into vailed threats of “well I guess I won’t know what she’s doing on her days off or on the weekend, and that could be anything…because it’s none of my business…”

Well, you guessed it…we’re back to the silent treatment and I’m sure distance and devaluation to follow.  But, I have to say that was my only slip, I calmly explained it as a response to being rattled by her tact of swearing and yelling and that this would always be a boundary in these types of situations as this was a simple conversation about communication and the way she and I work together to make decisions about raising our kids and I understand that, but to trace it all the way back to my entire email exchange with my ex-wife was inappropriate and unnecessary.

Anyway, that’s my story and I am going to remain strong and balance through this next wave as I am very interested to see how using the correct communication tools, keeping positive, healthy, connected with positive friends/family and self-validating will hopefully reduce the strength and duration of the silent/devaluation.  I think this is a very important test to see if this is something I can co-exist with and hopefully come back to a better relationship with my uBPD/NPDw through.

Thanks for listening.

NewStart

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[Grey Kitty]

  Glad the tools are working better for you!

I have weathered some fairly good rages with calm, firm and validating responses while setting a firm boundary that I don’t want to or deserve to be spoken to like that, and it’s been working.

I'd suggest a couple refinements on this.

Weathering the rage and not getting upset is better than engaging in the fight with her, but not the best practice. First, if she's raging at you, not acknowledging the rage is actually invalidating, which is something to avoid if possible. Second, listening to the raging (even if you are staying calm) isn't good for you, and more importantly, not good for her.

Her raging at you is her way of coping with her uncomfortable feelings--avoiding them by raging at you instead. If you stay there to be raged at, you are letting her continue to use that (bad, destructive and unhealthy) coping method. If you remove yourself, you take that coping method away from her, and she has the opportunity to look for a better one!

I would also refine the boundary and how you approach it. I would say (either to myself or to her) "I won't be spoken to that way." This really helps on boundary enforcement--she probably does think you deserve it. She certainly knows you don't want it, and this isn't stopping her. Convincing her of either of these things is a waste of your time and energy.

Convincing her (by your clear actions) that you won't be spoken to that way... .by first saying it, then if it continues, removing yourself so you no longer hear such things is all you need to do.

A good boundary is stated (at least for yourself) in the form "If you do X, I will do Y to protect myself from the harmful consequences of X to myself." Applying it to this case, when you are raged at, you have the power to remove yourself.

... .as for the whole thing about your son, your exwife, emails, etc... .sounds to me like you did the right thing.

Be gentle with yourself--these are new and difficult skills to learn. The more you practice, the better, easier, and faster you will be at doing the right thing.

How do you handle the silent treatment? Can you find things that you enjoy (which don't involve your wife), until she comes back?

Besides that, one thing I tried to do when I got the silent treatment was reach out with little non-threatening "touches" upon occasion. Something friendly. Something that gave her an opportunity to thaw the ice, but didn't put her on the spot to respond if she wasn't ready to.

I do this because the silent treatment starts out as a way to "punish" you. But at some point, those emotions fade, and then she either stays silent out of habit... .or out of embarrassment over what she did to me... .or out of fear that I will call her out on the bad behavior.

Yes, sometime later she will want or need to reach out, but she was often willing long before that point, and was receptive... .and there's no way to see what is going on inside her head.

[livednlearned]

Thanks for explaining your progress, NewStart. It's always helpful to hear how others work through this.

And GK, that is a really good point about word choice.

Small words, big shifts. I've also had to learn the difference between "I don't want to" and "I won't."

[NewStart]

Hey GK,

Great feedback and powerful tools that I will try to use. 

Yes, during the silent treatment I have reached out each day with normal messages that I would send on any normal day, you know how's your day going, hope you're doing well, xoxo... .you know one to start the day, something at lunch and then check in after work... .all to which I get zero response other than business... .you know, "kids need picked up at five... ." or "grab a gallon of milk on the way home... ."  Then even when this last silent treatment ended, though I think I'm headed right back into one, she started to answer those questions but never reciprocated.  What I mean is that she answers the questions, like "my day is going pretty well, busy though... ." yet hasn't asked how my day has been or wished me a good day in MONTHS... .get's old, but I'm keeping strong and trying to see a way through it without creating more problems for myself in the process.

Thanks again everyone... .

NS

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, there isn't much you can do about the silent treatment besides wait it out. Well that and admit to yourself that it really is abusive and really does hurt... .and stop yourself from doing the wrong things... .

Keep us posted on how your boundary enforcement works--Even if you don't get a tip or two on how to do it better, you will inspire somebody else to think about doing something similar!

[livednlearned]

My therapist explained silent treatment in this way: a person with a PD feels "erased," and seeks to do the same in return. The silent treatment is the ultimate act of erasure. It is in proportion to how erased they feel (maybe all the time), and then something happened in their environment to poke the bear, and they are seeking someone who will endure the pain they are trying to unload.

It's a wounded behavior, and it's very painful to be on the receiving end.

I think it may be one of the most difficult to endure because it's obviously painful to be erased (probably another way to say invalidated), as it makes us not even worthy of an argument. We are literally made to feel as though we don't exist.

At the same time, it can also be an opportunity. It has been years of healing to get to a place where I can ensure that I matter even in the face of being erased by someone.

That's how I interpret what people mean when they say focus on yourself during times of ST. Literally, focus on your SELF   and how you are intact and whole whether someone attempts to make you invisible.

[NewStart]

livednlearned,

I love that take, it helps me understand why I'm going through this... .doesn't make it right, but it give it perspective. 

I have to say early on it was all her and no matter what I did, no matter how benign, the reactions we over the top.  My problem is that I didn't come here earlier to figure out was to cope, I became reactionary and played right into her hand... .and now from many of my own actions/reactions we are on the bring of divorce and I have been and am currently under a well executed smear campaign... .

Thank you for the insight and hopefully the old adage that it is always darkest before the dawn is true.

NS