Mom's fingerprints are on this one.

[Notwendy]

Not sure there's an answer to this one but I don't know what's sincere and what isn't.

Some of my mother's  FOO has had minimal contact with me over the years.  Much of what they "know" about me is from what my mother tells them about me ( and who knows what that is). They are very supportive of her, see her frequently. A while back, she was angry at me, painted me black to them, and "ordered" them not to speak to me. ( I found out about this and am not supposed to know this). At the time I felt that if I were to say anything it would be a triangulation - her word against mine- and just didn't want to go there. They are her family, and so I let the situation be.

This situation is an embarrassment to her now. For her to undo it, she would have to come clean  that what she told them was not true. She won't do that. But sometimes she calls me up to try to get me to pretend it didn't happen, attend family things with them. I have been honest- I am embarrassed to be around them. I've heard they think I am the one with the problems, not her.

There is a family event that she wants my participation in. It isn't about me. It makes her look bad if I don't go along with what she wants. I told her "no" - I don't want to participate in this- and she was not pleased. When faced with a no- she usually tries to get around the boundary.

It seems not a coincidence that I have now heard from these relatives ( after them not speaking to me for many years) wanting to reconcile the relationship. On one hand, I think it is sincere. They have had many opportunities to witness my mother's behavior and consider that maybe I am not the problem child she tells them I am. I also don't think they have a clue that her motivation is for this event. They are not bad people- I think my mother is manipulative with them.

I do suspect she orchestrated it, and it feels contrived. I replied with a drama free- nice to hear from you. The door is open for a relationship but I am guarded.

[Sunfl0wer]

At the time I felt that if I were to say anything it would be a triangulation - her word against mine- and just didn't want to go there.

Wanted to challenge tiny bit the way this is framed.
Imo, it is not triangulation to share your version of your experience to others if you so choose.  Sounds though that you are worried that sharing actually provides your mom fuel to engage in drama, and you are wanting to minimize fuel. 

Only saying this cause being avoidant to "save" your mom from engaging in drama is possibly a rescuing attempt and over protective. -possibly.

Yet I can completely see how you may feel that not going there verbally is best as any engagement is likely going to be used as fuel.  In this respect, completely get it!

So now that I am done boring you with semantics... .

I do feel your position your mom is trying to put you in is quite orchestrated and tricky.  So sorry!  Sounds like you do great trying to stay out of the drama, and she is sending feelers out there to pull you into her world in some way.

The door is open for a relationship but I am guarded.

I cannot imagine a better way of having handled this.

So... .
What do you think is next?
How do you expect it to play out?
Will the people reaching out to you end up forging sincere relationships?
Will it get complicated as they behave as your moms informants?
What are your thoughts?

[Kwamina]

Hi Notwendy

There is a family event that she wants my participation in. It isn't about me. It makes her look bad if I don't go along with what she wants. I told her "no" - I don't want to participate in this- and she was not pleased.

I am glad you stuck to your boundary since you do not want to participate in this event.

It seems not a coincidence that I have now heard from these relatives ( after them not speaking to me for many years) wanting to reconcile the relationship.
... .
They are not bad people- I think my mother is manipulative with them.

How did those relatives contact you? Did they e-mail/text or did they call you?

They might not be bad people, but neither is your mother yet still a lot of her behavior can be classified as 'bad'. Those relatives are adults and they made the choice to believe whatever your mother told them without hearing the other side of the story. Your mother telling lies is on her, but those relatives believing the stories without any verification and not speaking to you for years, is 100% on them. They might not be bad people, but they did treat you badly. No matter what your mother told them, she did not force them to act the way they did,  they themselves made a deliberate choice to act this way. I think it is very wise that you are on your guard, considering all your past experiences with your family. You of course did not have to respond, but 'nice to hear from you' is a good BIFF-response.

[Notwendy]

I appreciate your pointing out that they are also responsible for their decision to not speak to me. That was something that felt really hurtful at the time. I realized that they had a choice to continue a relationship with me and they did make judgments about me without hearing my side.

Part of my avoidance of telling my perspective is that I have tried numerous times in the past but they seem to be enmeshed with my mother and didn't believe me. I think people here can relate to growing up with family members who are invested in keeping the disordered person a "secret " and refuse to hear otherwise. Eventually saying anything felt futile. In my mother's circle- her word rules. It still baffles me how grown and seeimgly rational people are so compliant with her.

[Sunfl0wer]

I think people here can relate to growing up with family members who are invested in keeping the disordered person a "secret " and refuse to hear otherwise.

^^^Certainly

Even if they do not consciously know they are "keeping a secret" seems that the roles all play in the dynamic, "function" to do just that.

My mom seemed to be the keystone of the family dysfunction.  However, after she died, the dynamics did rearrange and find a new way of being.  Yet, the "new way" still did allow members to play out certain dysfunctional roles.

So even with mom removed, who I saw as "the source" the dynamics still rearranged themself into a new system of dysfunction.  I supposed with her gone, I suspected that some things would resolve themself, not at all what happened. 

I consider my role to have been that of the second class passengers of the Titanic.  (if ya saw the movie) When the boat was sinking and only so many life boats available, they got locked behind a gate so as not to enter the competition for being saved.  After her death, they still wanted me in some subordinate position of sorts.  Not my thing at all.  Apparently the truth was, with or without mom, they all had their part to play.
Eh.

[Notwendy]

I understand your situation. I feel that way too. Our titanic was my father's passing. Not sure I even rated second class on that ship. My childhood felt more like I was Cinderella, with my mother being the stepmother and golden child siblings being the favored ones.

I don't quite understand this FOO's upholding my mother on a pedestal. They are intelligent people- they have seen her act oddly. But it is like another fairy tale. The Emperor has no Clothes.

[Kwamina]

I don't quite understand this FOO's upholding my mother on a pedestal. They are intelligent people- they have seen her act oddly. But it is like another fairy tale. The Emperor has no Clothes.

But do they really put your mother on a pedestal? As Board Parrot I've been following your posts for quite some time and you've also shared how your mother's family basically treat her as a child. They are all relatively successful in their professional lives and in some ways view your mother as a failure. Sure they care for her and spend time with her, but they always seem to be operating from the not very healthy one-up position casting your mother in the one-down position. They basically treat your mother as the victim, view themselves as some sort of omnipotent rescuers and super people and have cast you in the role of persecutor. Looking at it like this, the pedestal they've placed your mother on seems more like a trap that's keeping the dysfunctional dynamics in place. They seem to be using your mother and you to feel better about themselves.

[Notwendy]

You are spot on- Kwamina--I should have said "on a pedestal to me". They do treat her like that. Yet for some reason, if there is a perceived conflict between us, they seem to take her word. Even in the brief phone call we had, they praise her to me. They are paradoxically a support to her, and also not so supportive- at the same time. I don't know if that makes sense.


They seem to be using your mother and you to feel better about themselves.

I think you have it there. By calling me, they look good- are the peacemakers. When I consider the phone call, it was superficial, cordial. That seems appropriate for a first contact. I also realize the possibility that this may be all of it, "OK we are talking now" and there may not be much further interest in a relationship beyond being cordial.

Perhaps this is a version of the drama triangle that was at play in that family with mother as victim and them as rescuers. If she's upset over something with me, then I become "persecutor".  Similar dynamics as with my father.

[Kwamina]

I don't know if that makes sense.

Yes, it definitely makes sense! They support/reinforce/encourage certain behaviors that allow them to maintain their one-up/rescuer/hero position and don't support/reinforce/encourage other behaviors that would actually empower your mother because that would cause the family dynamics to change and would threaten their positions that they are so desperately trying to maintain.

Perhaps this is a version of the drama triangle that was at play in that family with mother as victim and them as rescuers. If she's upset over something with me, then I become "persecutor".

Exactly! It is sad though, but this seems to be what's going on. It's like there is a whole network of interconnected drama triangles.

I recently came to similar realizations about a particular part of my extended family. I was never very fond of them, but could not really put my finger on exactly why their behavior bothered me so much. It was actually (and ironically) my uBPD sis who pointed out that these particular family-members are very disrespectful and untrustworthy. They always talk to my mother in a disrespectful way, yet she allows it. When I was a kid they for many years did not speak to my mother at all and also turned their own parents against my mother. My mother however had done nothing to them, except possibly not indulge every single one of their wishes (read demands), yet they turned on her anyway only to come back years later to 'resolve' things while not addressing their own behavior at all.

My mother does complain about them a lot to others (including me) but does not confront them but instead almost keeps running to them. It is her choice to make and I am no longer getting involved, but it is sad. uBPD older sis is also involved and is upset about the way they treat our mother. My sister is also upset about the way they treat her, they also treat my sister in a disrespectful way (like constantly making comments about her weight and physical appearance, how she looks now, how she used to look etc.), yet she also does not confront them, instead complains about them to other people. Again, I am not getting involved, but it is said. Sometimes, my uBPD mom and sis exaggerate things, but when it comes to these people, they are actually absolutely right and telling the truth. Those extended family-members are very disrespectful and condescending (to everyone who allows it, not just to my mother and sister but literally to everyone they encounter) and have always been this way, yet my mother and sister still choose to have contact with them and not confront them about their behavior, instead allowing themselves to be mistreated over and over again.

Older sister was telling me these things the other day and I told her that I agree with the way she describes our extended family-members behavior (the disrespect and condescension), but also added that she and my mother make their own choices and they choose to let themselves be treated this way. uBPD sis actually agreed with me, in all likelihood their dynamics will continue, but she was able to see the choices they make, that they themselves are responsible for them and how certain consequences are a result of their own choices. Validation and S.E.T. in action

[Notwendy]

Yes, it definitely makes sense! They support/reinforce/encourage certain behaviors that allow them to maintain their one-up/rescuer/hero position and don't support/reinforce/encourage other behaviors that would actually empower your mother because that would cause the family dynamics to change and would threaten their positions that they are so desperately trying to maintain.


I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Although they don't say the disparaging comments that your extended family make, their interactions with us seem condescending. When we speak- they talk about their immediate family members, but don't show much interest in learning about me or my family. So, they may not make put down comments, but they don't seem to show genuine interest in family members outside their circle.

I'd bet there are Karpman triangles going on in that family that I'm not even aware of. I haven't heard from them since this initial brief conversation. Time will tell if they follow up on it. For me, I think staying cordial- medium chill- for now is the best way to stay out of the drama.