Dropped on my head, left without a home and daughter Pt. 5

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

OK... .she pushed away... .and you ran towards her... .  Do you see that?

I think the healthiest thing would have been to reply.


"What would you like me to do?"  If you get no direct answer back from here... .drop it and go to airbnb.

OK... .here is my "sorta" informed analysis of what happened.  I am NOT saying you are wrong in what you did.

You guys had plans to eat dinner... .and you "abandoned" her for a work colleague. 

So... .she "abandoned" you... .

You pushed hard to get back in... .she went NC.

Also... .I've got to say... .there is a ton of "closeness" going on in the apartment.  You KNOW... .you KNOW she is "BPDish"... .BPDish people have trouble with close relationships. 

Even though she seems "fine" with it, you would be much better off to be a bit more reluctant.  The pressure of the closeness builds up in her... .and she HAS NO HEALTHY COPING MECHANISM.  Zip zero nada... .

OK... .for now... .go to work... see what happens.  I would not contact her... for several days at least.

FF

[formflier]

OK... .she pushed away... .and you ran towards her... .  Do you see that?

I think the healthiest thing would have been to reply.


"What would you like me to do?"  If you get no direct answer back from here... .drop it and go to airbnb.

OK... .here is my "sorta" informed analysis of what happened.  I am NOT saying you are wrong in what you did.

You guys had plans to eat dinner... .and you "abandoned" her for a work colleague. 

So... .she "abandoned" you... .

You pushed hard to get back in... .she went NC.

Also... .I've got to say... .there is a ton of "closeness" going on in the apartment.  You KNOW... .you KNOW she is "BPDish"... .BPDish people have trouble with close relationships. 

Even though she seems "fine" with it, you would be much better off to be a bit more reluctant.  The pressure of the closeness builds up in her... .and she HAS NO HEALTHY COPING MECHANISM.  Zip zero nada... .

OK... .for now... .go to work... see what happens.  I would not contact her... for several days at least.

FF

[codependable]

OK... .she pushed away... .and you ran towards her... . :)o you see that?

Yup. I do. So the best thing when she pushes is to back off?

So often in the past she has pushed me away then said later, "I wanted you to fight for me".  

Not sure what to do. If you think it's best with BPDish people to back off when they push, then that's what I will start to do.

I think the healthiest thing would have been to reply.

"What would you like me to do?"  If you get no direct answer back from here... .drop it and go to airbnb.

Got it - ask questions and her permission.

OK... .here is my "sorta" informed analysis of what happened.  I am NOT saying you are wrong in what you did.

You guys had plans to eat dinner... .and you "abandoned" her for a work colleague.  

So... .she "abandoned" you... .

You pushed hard to get back in... .she went NC.

I think you're right.

Update: this morning she texted me at 6:30 AM, saying she and my daughter were up,and inviting me to breakfast. Which I accepted.

I asked her, "Hey, what happened last night?"

She said, "I fell asleep at 7PM with M".

I told her I knocked on her door loudly, rang the buzzer (which is very loud) and called several times. She said she didn't hear it. Not sure I actually believe that. The buzzer is right next to her bedroom door and it would be really hard to sleep through that.  In fact, a couple weeks ago I buzzed and she woke up and answered the door.

So I don't know what to make of that. Sounds bogus. Whatever. I brushed it off.

We had a nice breakfast and got our daughter ready for school. She made a comment that I "broke her heart". She quickly recanted it, but it was obvious it was true. I know she feels like I broke her heart every time I flew to California.

We walked our daughter to Kindergarten and - for the first time - held hands as we walked. I was shocked.

I have gone back and forth thinking that she manipulates and hurts intentionally. That is the place I have been coming from for a long time.

It just feels so intentional: the twisting of he knife when withholding my daughter. The breaking up when I'm out of town. The changing of the locks. The smearing me to our friends as a bad guy who "left her and our daughter". The booking a trip over Christmas so I couldn't spend time with our daughter. And so on.

It seems so well-planned and thought out. She knows my pain points.

But I'm now starting to think maybe she really doesn't plan any of this - that it's simply a self-protective instinct. Or a defense mechanism to protect herself because she is so hurt.  And the only way she can handle the idea of me leaving her with a baby would be to push me away first so she is "in control". So she could handle it better since it would be her "choice".

[formflier]

Yup. I do. So the best thing when she pushes is to back off?

Give her the same signal... .but "cut it in half".  She is giving you a push... .so very gently acknowledge that you will step away.  In this instance her "suggestion" or indirect way of letting you know that she didn't want you to come over was very mild.  I still think the proper response was a direct question that puts the ball in her court.

"I wanted you to fight for me".  

We all know this doesn't make sense.  No need to help her understand this.  Listen... .let her talk.  Be there for her... . Really... .stuff like this.  Just listen.  

Not sure what to do. If you think it's best with BPDish people to back off when they push, then that's what I will start to do.

Got it - ask questions and her permission.

Close... .ask direct questions.  Put the ball in her court.  Respect her choice to communicate... .or not.  It's not so much "permission" as respect.

I asked her, "Hey, what happened last night?"

She said, "I fell asleep at 7PM with M".

I told her I knocked on her door loudly, rang the buzzer (which is very loud) and called several times. She said she didn't hear it. Not sure I actually believe that. The buzzer is right next to her bedroom door and it would be really hard to sleep through that.  In fact, a couple weeks ago I buzzed and she woke up and answered the door.

So I don't know what to make of that. Sounds bogus. Whatever. I brushed it off.

Why play with fire?

What possible good could come from this conversation... .compared to the minefield around that?  

  She made a comment that I "broke her heart". She quickly recanted it, but it was obvious it was true. I know she feels like I broke her heart every time I flew to California.

Dude... .this is one area where a "gentle" push is warranted.  Nice friendly... .slightly concerned tone.  

"Oh babe... .I would like to hear about your heart... "

if she recants... .

"It would mean a lot to me if your shared your heart... . I'm open to listen when you are comfortable."  Then drop it.  See how you expressed yourself and put the ball in her court

We walked our daughter to Kindergarten and - for the first time - held hands as we walked. I was shocked.

As long as she is the one doing the reaching... .this is likely ok.  She is giving a pull signal.  Remember the mantra... ."cut it in half and give it back to her"

So... perhaps at end of walk... .Give her gentle pat on back... .or touch on arm  "Enjoyed taking our daughter to school... "

I have gone back and forth thinking that she manipulates and hurts intentionally. That is the place I have been coming from for a long time.

It just feels so intentional: the twisting of he knife when withholding my daughter. The breaking up when I'm out of town. The changing of the locks. The smearing me to our friends as a bad guy who "left her and our daughter". The booking a trip over Christmas so I couldn't spend time with our daughter. And so on.

It seems so well-planned and thought out. She knows my pain points.

But I'm now starting to think maybe she really doesn't plan any of this - that it's simply a self-protective instinct. Or a defense mechanism to protect herself because she is so hurt.  And the only way she can handle the idea of me leaving her with a baby would be to push me away first so she is "in control". So she could handle it better since it would be her "choice".

She doesn't plan this.  But it is predictable

Dude... .get an extra cup of coffee.  Clear your head.

What are the implications for you, your daughter and your r/s that you know her playbook?

I've never met your pwBPD.  How is it that I ... .sitting her drinking coffee and staring at a stupid amount of snow outside... .am able to understand the behavior... reasonably predict things.  Full disclosure:  Also pouring extra cereal for my D3!  

Certainly not an exact science... .but I assure you... .ignore the playbook at your peril.

And know... .ignoring the playbook can have an affect on your daughter and her future.

[livednlearned]

It is her fantasy that you will take care of her, and that same fantasy is also her nightmare.

People with BPD have been conditioned to think they cannot take care of themselves, which is tragic, because obviously they need to self-activate and have an independent, individual sense of self.

So when you say that you'll take care of her, part of her is awash in the fantasy. Then, when she is able to reflect, she recognizes that you are part of her personal belief system in which you will not support her efforts to individuate.

You told her you would take care of her, and she regressed. Then she resisted.

This is how the push/pull works.

It's best if you support her efforts and actions to be capable and competent.

I know it's a fine line, and feels like a tightrope trying to get it right. Understanding where it comes from and carefully choosing your words is important.

These skills are counter intuitive, and people who have codependent traits tend to feel good when we are caretaking others. You can see how that can become downright toxic knowing that people with BPD both demand and reject caretaking.

[livednlearned]

I have gone back and forth thinking that she manipulates and hurts intentionally. That is the place I have been coming from for a long time.

It is intentional most likely. It's also a survival mechanism, and in a sense a survival mechanism that is not really about you.

A lot of people with BPD develop hyperawareness of the needs and emotions of their primary caregivers. They survived by finding their caregiver's Achilles heel and (for lack of a better word) exploited this to make sure the child's needs are met for survival. She is keenly trained to evoke desired responses from people who become caretakers in her adult life to ensure her survival. It's pretty intense. 

It's partly driven by the need to test if you can be trusted. It's her belief system, the structure of her personality or sense of self, that people who take care of her cannot be trusted to do so, which is true to the degree to which she demands that trust. She thinks she needs to manipulate situations to evoke the kind of response that satisfies, momentarily, her need. It is not intended to cause you pain or suffering or hardship, because that would require that she can see the relationship through your eyes, and likely she cannot do that.

Try to engage the feelings she has without engaging her or rewarding her for being needy or clingy. If you do, it activates her intense and desperate need to individuate, which would be healthy if only she didn't resort to dysfunctional coping systems like alienating you from M.

Part of loving someone with BPD is demonstrating you have confidence in their ability to function as a separate person. Which feels crazy because their solutions often are extreme (I will raise M on my own without help from anyone even though it's not best for her and I don't actually want this).

You sometimes have to give reality a wink, in my experience. And resist at all costs the urge to do things for them. That's why asking questions can be a good way to bounce out of your own codependent tendencies.

[formflier]

Props to livednlearned... .solid analysis. 

You told her you would take care of her, and she regressed. Then she resisted.
 

Look at yourself... .look at her... .look at the dynamic between you two.  I'm guessing there is a part of you that likes to "take care" of people.  There certainly is for me.

There is a healthy level of caretaking... .that is the trick for us "nons" to find.  If we are going to make an error... .it's best to make an error of doing less... . A natural tendency is to "do more".

Part of loving someone with BPD is demonstrating you have confidence in their ability to function as a separate person.

Stay big picture with me:  :)o you want her to view you as a person that takes care of her... .or as an equal partner raising the child you created?

FF

[Grey Kitty]

What ever happened with your lawyer and the Jugendamt?

I know you appear to be reconciling in some form or other, and do not want to create more conflict with her now, while things are relatively fragile. I wouldn't either.

Do continue getting legal advice about this--you don't want to lose your rights by failing to enforce them now.

[formflier]

I know we've asked a lot of questions of you... .and asked you to ask your lawyer many questions.

I don't remember hearing what the lawyer said about any danger to delaying a few weeks or months.

I would certainly feel more comfortable focusing on reconciliation with a clear answer from the lawyer that there is no greater legal peril or disadvantage to further delay

If there is a peril or danger to further delay... .that would likely spur a number of follow up questions... .and force some choices.

   

Hang in there... .I am cautiously optimistic about developments. 

Perhaps more accurately worded... .it appears that nothing has changed and the previous relationship cycles... .are still cycling.

I do see efforts and awareness of your need to change and changes that you have made.   

This awareness and effort on your part is what gives me the most hope of a more stable relationship for you... .with your pwBPD.  I know it's a bit counter-intuitive, but the biggest predictor of a more stable relationship is for YOU to consistently do things differently in your r/s.

Keep up the effort!   

FF

[livednlearned]

You doing ok, codependable?