Court on Thursday

[Panshekay]

Driving tomorrow to our sons house for court. We have 3 feet of snow here.  Hopefully it doesn't snow anymore tonight.  Just an update... .charges made by our sons BPD wife to cps 8 times.  DHS involved now.  sD 11, S 6. Our son is a nurse so if he is found guilty of any of the unknown charges (new charges since the last court date but this time our son is not allowed to talk about those charges to anyone... .odd, isn't it). He loses his job, and career. 2 weeks ago he got a msg from DHS on a Friday nicely telling him to contact them asap, or he wouldn't have his son that Sat or Sun.  He got the msg, left work and went down to DHS. That is when they told him  another CPS complaint had been made, he asked if it was by his wife and they said no. Keep in mind every time there is a complaint they say it isn't from his wife, but when he gets the records it is a complaint by his wife.  I love how DHS and CPS are allowed to lie "In the best interest of the child".  So they tell our son that his 6 year old son told them that he had been touching his son inappropriately. Our son broke down crying and said how many times do I have to tell you my wife is lying, I have never touched my son in that way, I would never do that. He sat there and sobbed. So the DHS women go and speak with their mgr and come back and say ok, we will dismiss this complaint. We all know if DHS thought for a minute he was guilty of that there would have been police there and they wouldn't have closed the complaint and he wouldn't have gotten to have his son on Sat and Sunday... .so was any of this true or did DHS set that up? Makes me wonder.  So yesterday our son talks with his state provided attorney and she says the DA wants to drop the case but can't because it's political. Our son asks how, and she says DHS feels the DA dismisses too many cases, so they don't want to renew his contact. WTH!  Then our son says well if I win on Thursday... .and she says, no, there is no winning when you go to trial, you WILL be found guilty of something, you aren't going to win.  So there you have it. A broken, crooked, money hungry,  non accountable system that gets to ruin my grandchildrens lives and destroy our son. Wish us luck and prayers would be appreciated. Thank you for listening. 

[david]

My ex accused me of assault. Of course, I didn't touch her. I didn't have a very good attorney at the time but didn't know it. Went to court and was found guilty of disorderly conduct. I had to take a leave of absence from my job until I could get my record expunged (5 years). I was also sentenced to two weeks in prison.
I have no faith in the legal or political systems anymore. You need a good attorney to protect yourself. It costs more money but that is how the system "works".

[Panshekay]

Our son has a divorce attorney which he is paying for.  The other attorney is through the state.  No choice given.  It's devastating to hear the stories others have, there isn't any  justice and nothing/ no one can be trusted.  I'm very sorry you had all that happen to you and that it took so long to get it resolved.  It's life changing and not in a good way. We were supposed to leave tonight but there was an avalanche so we will have to leave tomorrow morning and take a much longer route. Thanks for responding, we do find comfort hearing others stories.

[david]

My ex ran away with our two boys in 2007. She was acting unusual for months leading up to that. It took me several weeks until the courts allowed me to see them. Originally the court gave me EOW and one day during the week to take them out for dinner. It took me until 2010 or 2011 until I was able to get 50/50 custody.
Learning how the "game" is played and using it to your advantage is important. Also having a good attorney that you can work with, that will tell you how things work, what they need to accomplish your goal, and actually listens to what you are trying to achieve is necessary.
When I got out of prison I purchased a video recorder and a small audio recorder. I have both of them whenever I will be near my ex. It is illegal in my state and ex had brought it up in court a bunch of times. I get yelled at for a while and no further action is ever taken. My attorney told me I could be put in jail and I should stop. I thought about it and called him up. I said from now on I will record myself whenever I am near ex. There is no law against that. My attorney said to continue that and he could argue that in court.
Another thing that is extremely helpful in court. Whenever my ex has a complaint I try to find a solution for the court. Judges love solutions that make sense. Once my ex filed a protection order because she was afraid I was going to harm her when I went to pick the kids up at her place. I had a problem because she would not let the boys bring their school bags with them when I went to pick them up. I am a school teacher and she knows I think their education is important. In court, I suggested picking them up at their school. This addressed ex's concerns for her safety. The judge liked the idea and asked ex what she thought. She had no choice but to agree. I made sure my attorney wrote the order out right then and there. The judge looked it over, liked it, had both of us sign it, and then he signed it. I went to pick the boys up the next day. When I got there I was told that I needed ex's permission. She had already called the school. I handed them a copy of the handwritten order. They questioned it because it was not typed out. I told them it was a legal document and if they wanted it typed out by the court they needed to give me $75.00 since that was what the court charged. I suggested they fax it to their legal department. Around 15 minutes later I was walking out with both boys.
It takes a while to figure this kind of stuff out. 

[Panshekay]

Our son has been seperated for 3.5 years.  It wasn't until his wife got ANOTHER BF who lives out of state that she started to make all these accusations to CPS.  She wants full custody, and wants to move to California. All anyone has to do is google "how to get full custody of your kids" the answer is... .accuse your spouse of physical or sexual abuse.  So that is exactly what she has done. What is really sad and disturbing is what she is doing to my 6yo GS.  She has been "grooming" him since last summer.  The lies that she is telling him I can see he is starting to believe.  I used to work for Health and Social services in another state.  I never realized how corrupt and misinformed people could be. 8 complaints to CPS in less than a year, none ever prior to that. You would think THEY would see a pattern, but no, they totally believe her.  I am so tired of all this, where is the justice, the accountability?  How do you make people see the truth? 

[david]

His attorney may be able to use that evidence. Can you show when she found her new bf ? If so can you show how it coincides with the accusations. Can you show that there were 8 complaints and all were unfounded, dismissed, whatever legal term. Finding the right strategy to counter her false accusations could be very helpful in court. Perhaps offering extra two weeks during the summer where the kids can go to Calif to see their mom. What kind of support do the kids have currently. Family members,etc.
Also, evidence must be introduced in court. It is a procedure and slows things down. Judges don't like it because it slows things down. However, judges must make their decision based on the evidence. Paper evidence is stronger than verbal testimony. Appeals can be made if the evidence is not used in the decision. It's the way the "game" is played.

[Panshekay]

He has done all that, the proof, timelines all of it.  This is how it goes. Our son  " I have 3 years of texts from my wife where she says I am a good father, the kids are lucky to have me, SD is lucky to have a father like me who loves her.   It shows her unpredictable behavior, anger, lashing out for no reason,  would you like a copy of  those texts, they are mapped out by date and subject?" DHS, " no, we don't need that".  Son, " for the last 3 years until she started dating a man who lives in Calif I had both kids 65 to 70 percent of the time, I have that documented, when I had the kids, how many times she was supposed to have the kids but didn't want them,  would you like a copy of  that?" DHS " that is in the past, it doesn't apply today, we need to look at what is going on now".  Son, "Have you looked at her mental Heath records, do you have access to those.  It shows a pattern of depression, suicidal tendency's and manic behavior". DHS, "no, we have talked to your wife and feel she has been very forthcoming, we don't feel it's necessary to look at those".  DHS, " Mr _ 6 years ago your SD says she saw you and her mother fighting".    The past doesn't matter when it comes to his wife, but the past matters when it has to do with our son.  Our son has everything documented, plays by the rules.  Currently he is dealing with the false allegation made by wife to CPS, then DHS got involved.  They haven't even gotten to the divorce and custody part because of the open investigation with DHS going on with him.   His wife has had 7 jobs in one year and has dated 6 men that we know of in 3 years, moved in with 3 of those men.  One of those men actually called our son asking him how to get his F N crazy wife out if his house!  Our sons response was " I don't care what the two of you do, but I'm coming to pick up my kids, they don't need to see or hear your fighting".  Before you even ask about past men testifying on our sons behalf they won't.  She makes sure she keeps all ex's as friends.  She plays the same story over and over, just uses different men. All the things she told us about her exh are the same things she says about our son now. She is very charismatic, pretty, charming, tiny figure, high energy, flirtatious and captivating. Men literally fall at her feet.   The only reason she has had this bf for a year is because he lives in another state.  He hasn't ridden the crazy train on a continuous basis.  She thinks by getting ful custody she can move the kids out of state which isn't true. She can however go to the judge and tell him it would be more beneficial  for them to move to California and the judge could side with that. 

[LilMe]

Don't ask if people want to see the records. Subpoena any legal records and submit the other documentation to the court. Subponea the CPS investigators and put them on the stand. It sounds like you need a better lawyer. And even then you must do most of the groundwork yourself and guide the lawyer.

[livednlearned]

Does his lawyer have a good reputation litigating in court?

Not all family law attorneys are good trial lawyers.

It takes a specific set of skills to stand up in court and make a good case.

[Panshekay]

She is a state appointed attorney, you don't get to choose and you don't get to change to another one.    This state appointed attorney is for the false allegations against him from his wife that DHS is now involved in.  He has a divorce attorney who he is paying for, BUT she is friends with the judge on this case so she could not represent our son. All the texts, Mental Health records, EVERYTHING has been turned over as evidence.  This is so one sided it is ridiculous. But we will continue to fight.

[david]

Turned over as evidence and presented, in court, as evidence are two different things. Evidence introduced as evidence in court must be used when making a ruling. Paper/documented evidence holds more weight than verbal testimony. It must be introduced as evidence during the hearing. It is a process and slows things down. Judges and attorneys don't like that because it slows things down.

[ForeverDad]

Turned over as evidence and presented, in court, as evidence are two different things. Evidence introduced as evidence in court must be used when making a ruling. Paper/documented evidence holds more weight than verbal testimony. It must be introduced as evidence during the hearing. It is a process and slows things down. Judges and attorneys don't like that because it slows things down.

I agree that court wants to move the cases along due to clogged schedules and it's also hard to get evidence admitted 'on the record'.  If it is that serious then there should not be side bars and conferences where nothing gets submitted.  As david wrote, you can't contest or appeal a decision based on evidence that wasn't entered on the record or used in testimony.

In general, courts prefer settlements since they can't be reconsidered, appealed, contested or objected.  But they do set a precedent or landmark that makes future improvements an uphill struggle.