Not allowed to be sad, definitely not allowed to be angry

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi All,

My spouse and I have an emotional dynamic that drives me crazy. It happened this morning again, and it wasn't until today that I had the clarity to see what is going on.

I have a garden that I care very much for, and I brought my spouse for a visit this morning. I've been growing these GIANT winter squashes all season, and it's a real treat when they make it to full size. Most of them break or get eaten by squirrels before they make it big enough. This morning my spouse picked one that was well on it's way, but was still only half the size it was going to be (about 2 foot). Not really a big deal, but I was very sad. Not many of them are eligible to be full sized, and that was really the only contender right now.

I shared that I was really sad, and acted sad. I felt that this was understandable given how much work I've put into these plants. My spouse apologized, but when I didn't cheer up within 5 minutes, they became really angry with me. Said things like "You're going to be angry with me and that's why I'm mad." Typically, this adds fuel to a fire for me and we start screaming at each other over a damned squash. Today, I said "I'm just sad about my squash and you're being really mean" over and over again until we got home. Now we're taking a break for a little while until they cool off.

I'm even more sad because I really just needed a little support and a little time. Instead, it has been blown way out of proportion because I dared be sad about something I've been working on since spring.

What's even worse is that since it's such a little thing and I can't get support from my spouse, I really can't get support from anyone else either. People are like "this is such a small issue, why is it such a big deal?" and it's because it's not about the squash! It's about how angry my spouse is with me when they make a mistake. I have to carry my own mistakes, their mistakes, and the sadness I feel about all of those mistakes all by myself.

Meanwhile, my spouse gets all the support in the world from me for their minor sadnesses and inconveniences. When I get tired of supporting them for hours, days, and weeks of poor emotional regulation, I get told I'm not a supportive spouse! I'm so tired,a nd I wish I could just be sad about my squash sometimes.

I think it's even harder too because my mom has borderline, so when I was very small I wasn't allowed to be sad either. This situation is so triggering and it's hard for me to not have my own emotional outburst because I'm not allowed to be sad, and I never was in the first place. I'm just so tired.

[314rabbit]

Hi All,

My spouse and I have an emotional dynamic that drives me crazy. It happened this morning again, and it wasn't until today that I had the clarity to see what is going on.

I have a garden that I care very much for, and I brought my spouse for a visit this morning. I've been growing these GIANT winter squashes all season, and it's a real treat when they make it to full size. Most of them break or get eaten by squirrels before they make it big enough. This morning my spouse picked one that was well on it's way, but was still only half the size it was going to be (about 2 foot). Not really a big deal, but I was very sad. Not many of them are eligible to be full sized, and that was really the only contender right now.

I shared that I was really sad, and acted sad. I felt that this was understandable given how much work I've put into these plants. My spouse apologized, but when I didn't cheer up within 5 minutes, they became really angry with me. Said things like "You're going to be angry with me and that's why I'm mad." Typically, this adds fuel to a fire for me and we start screaming at each other over a damned squash. Today, I said "I'm just sad about my squash and you're being really mean" over and over again until we got home. Now we're taking a break for a little while until they cool off.

I'm even more sad because I really just needed a little support and a little time. Instead, it has been blown way out of proportion because I dared be sad about something I've been working on since spring.

What's even worse is that since it's such a little thing and I can't get support from my spouse, I really can't get support from anyone else either. People are like "this is such a small issue, why is it such a big deal?" and it's because it's not about the squash! It's about how angry my spouse is with me when they make a mistake. I have to carry my own mistakes, their mistakes, and the sadness I feel about all of those mistakes all by myself.

Meanwhile, my spouse gets all the support in the world from me for their minor sadnesses and inconveniences. When I get tired of supporting them for hours, days, and weeks of poor emotional regulation, I get told I'm not a supportive spouse! I'm so tired,a nd I wish I could just be sad about my squash sometimes.

I think it's even harder too because my mom has borderline, so when I was very small I wasn't allowed to be sad either. This situation is so triggering and it's hard for me to not have my own emotional outburst because I'm not allowed to be sad, and I never was in the first place. I'm just so tired.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hey 314rabbit;

First of all,   about your garden produce. I've also felt really blue about losing something in the garden -- this season, I was having trouble getting my cantaloupe sprouts to hang on, and then I accidentally killed one when I dragged the hose over it. I know what you mean, that you would just like someone to hear that you are sad about the loss of something you tried to nurture.

Sounds like there are a couple of things going on.

One is -- how much support is it possible for your spouse to provide to you, and given that your spouse has significant emotional limitations, what is the most effective structure for getting that support.

I hear a little bit of a good foundation here:

I shared that I was really sad, and acted sad. I felt that this was understandable given how much work I've put into these plants. My spouse apologized

OK -- your spouse did not immediately get defensive, blame you, or try to weasel out of it. Being able to apologize first thing is a good start for the two of you.

It sounds like that is about the limit of what your spouse can do at this point in time. As "unfair" as it sounds short term, it may benefit both of you long term if you "take the win", recognize that your spouse can't provide much more support after that, and find either some alone time/space to keep processing, or connect with someone else (a friend, these boards, a counselor) for that processing.

If after you hear "I'm sorry about the squash", you're able to say "thanks, that really means a lot, and I forgive you; I do still feel sad so I'm going to take care of myself by going on a long walk/taking a long shower/reading alone until 4pm" -- I wonder if that could meet both of your needs/limitations a little better.

If the two of you are able to have more "small wins" where an emotional interaction is ended/resolved before it blows up, that can build some trust.

when I didn't cheer up within 5 minutes, they became really angry with me. Said things like "You're going to be angry with me and that's why I'm mad." Typically, this adds fuel to a fire for me and we start screaming at each other over a damned squash. Today, I said "I'm just sad about my squash and you're being really mean" over and over again until we got home. Now we're taking a break for a little while until they cool off.

After cooling off, are the two of you typically able to return to what happened and have any kind of discussion?

...

My second thought is is -- how can we help you decline to take on carrying feelings/mistakes that aren't yours.

it's not about the squash! It's about how angry my spouse is with me when they make a mistake. I have to carry my own mistakes, their mistakes, and the sadness I feel about all of those mistakes all by myself.

Meanwhile, my spouse gets all the support in the world from me for their minor sadnesses and inconveniences. When I get tired of supporting them for hours, days, and weeks of poor emotional regulation, I get told I'm not a supportive spouse! I'm so tired,a nd I wish I could just be sad about my squash sometimes.

I wonder why you choose to be supportive beyond your limits? What would it be like to say No before you burn out?

Is it true that you're not supportive? Can you live with your spouse having a different experience of your efforts?

...

I think it's even harder too because my mom has borderline, so when I was very small I wasn't allowed to be sad either. This situation is so triggering and it's hard for me to not have my own emotional outburst because I'm not allowed to be sad, and I never was in the first place. I'm just so tired.

Yeah, I get it -- it's not about the squash, and for some other couple, the situation might have been a 5/10, not a 9/10. But because of your unique history, the dynamic was like poking an open wound.

Do you find having the awareness of your FOO dynamic helpful in the moment? That is to say, is it helpful, when you feel wounded by your partner, to know that that's a sore spot for a reason?

It's a mixed bag for me; I think I do have the awareness that feeling unheard is a huge pain point for me, and I can connect that to FOO experiences. It is more difficult for me to connect the FOO awareness to changes or helpful insights in the moment with my H (he doesn't have BPD but we still have relational challenges due to both of our FOO contributions). Kind of like, OK, I feel extra hurt in this area because of stuff that happened to me as a kid, but... I still feel extra hurt now.

What is starting to be more helpful for me is to know that in the area of being heard (for me) or feeling allowed to be sad (for you), we may need to radically accept that we are not in relationships where that can happen spontaneously. Extra structure, even if it feels awkward or artificial, might be more helpful than repeatedly hoping/expecting we can have our needs met "on the fly" and repeatedly being disappointed.

My T has suggested that my H may actually need more framing before I launch into sharing my feelings (and hoping internally that "this time, he'll be validating"): I may need to preface it with "hey... I have something to share and I really just need support/listening/understanding from you right now", or something else similar to signal that I am not asking for advice or a pep talk.

...

Lots to think about... hope there's helpful food for thought in there.

[314rabbit]

Kells76,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I read it to my spouse, and they had some clarity. I'm grateful that my spouse at least is attempting self awareness on these issues.

This weekend has been incredibly rough, including calls to the crisis line, klonopin snorting, sobbing episodes (myself included), and my spouse running off. 

We did make it to church this morning, after the running off incident (can't figure out how we pulled it off, but we did.) My spouse did a lovely job reading a story during children's time, and we read a lot of the book of Job on the way. I shared with the congregation that our family was experiencing a "private medical problem" and they did a laying of hands that was very special.

There were a lot of small incidents that created huge events, also a huge incident that turned out better than things had been going. We are rabbit farmers, and the hay we had for the nest boxes was moldy and wet, and there wasn't enough. My spouse said it had been that way for weeks, and they had asked me to buy hay. I remember this differently, as it is my spouse's responsibility to source and buy hay. (for a lot of reasons, their access to technology and appropriate vehicles is better than mine. They work near where we buy it). Our rabbits are giving birth tomorrow morning and the kits will die without nest boxes. This isn't the first time my spouse has delayed tasks for so long that our animals are at risk. Many have died due to negligence.

Tonight, I was very upset because this is a matter of about $1k of farm income in rabbits alone that we could lose due to negligence. I was treated like a villain for being upset, and my spouse went off to hide while I found nest boxes, sourced hay and made an appointment to get it tomorrow, and find temporary nest box materials that they can use tomorrow morning in an emergency. My spouse cried in the car and wouldn't come out.

I'm exhausted.

I've told my spouse that we must sell the rabbitry if this kind of behavior continues, but at the same time, this is a main source of our farm income. I can't shoulder all of the rabbitry tasks, and all of my other farm tasks on my own. It's just too much to have a BPD spouse and business partner.

So it's all a mixed bag. My spouse is experiencing a med change. We really want a family, and she needs to be on pregnancy safe medications in order to do so. We are also planning to wait until we get more stability before we start trying. This change is taking weeks, and right now she's on a dose of lithium that is almost negligible, with no other mood stabilizers on board. We're just waiting for God to open the door. It's just Hell in the hallway.

[314rabbit]

I experienced anger again, and now my spouse is livid with me for daring to do so.

I planned a date tonight, and my spouse holds the shared card for our food budget. A part of the date plan was to go to Aldi to pick up some supplies, and we'd need that card. My spouse knew all of this prior to us leaving the house to go to the library.

When we left the library, I started driving to Aldi, which is when my spouse shared with me that they forgot their wallet. I said something to the effect of "That really sucks, because now we have to go way out of our way to go on a date. I wasn't looking forward to running around, I wanted an easy night in."

My spouse responded with "Well, I told you earlier that I left my wallet at home." Which turned into stupid back and forth bickering with me saying "You forgetting your wallet isn't my fault, and you need to take responsibility."

After a few minutes of that, I started to get  a little heated because it was just so PLEASE READing stupid! I planned this nice date and just needed some meat and cheese to make it happen, and this person I'm married to is just nitpicking me on why it's partially my fault. I'm not going to take any responsibility for it. Then my spouse was trying to get me to take responsibility for "escalating" the argument, which my response was that I didn't escalate anything! I just said that it wasn't my fault. It literally had nothing to do with me, and that's all I was saying.

Before we arrived home, and before I even yelled, my spouse for a moment morphed into a nearly rabid animal screaming at me to pull over and that they weren't safe in the car. I thought that it was an insane thing to say so I just drove them home. I didn't feel as though it was safe to leave them on the side of the road in that state and preferred that they come home. This was about 4 blocks from our home.

Upon our arrival, I was so overwhelmed by my spouse's severe emotional response to being "caught" that I yelled at them to leave me alone. I felt like I was being wrung out like a wet towel.

I took a break on the back porch, and eventually my spouse came out demanding I'm not even sure what. They seemed to really want me to understand that everything that they were trying to say in the car was explaining their point on why we were fighting. That didn't make sense to me, and I don't even understand it written out. It was something along the lines of "I wasn't blaming you at all, I was just trying to explain to you that you had no reason to be surprised! I forgot my wallet, and I would really prefer if you just drove all around town and forgave me right off of the bat when I make mistakes. Being angry at my mistakes is okay, but not if you express them. Expressing them also includes when I think you're feeling those feelings. Also this is because you replay scripts from your abusive mom and ex husband. Etc."

After a few minutes of back and forth and my very best effort to keep my game face on, I said "I don't think that this is a productive conversation to have, because you have no idea what happened and I need you to leave." to which they kept trying to make their point, to which I yelled the same thing I had said earlier. At that, they went inside and screamed about how "embarrassing I am." I'm just exhausted, and I just wanted to have a nice night in with my spouse.

[LittleRedBarn]

This thread really resonates for me. I'm definitely not allowed to be sad, or angry, or anxious - or in fact to have any emotions at all about any given situation beyond the superficial. It's like my spouse can tolerate my feelings for around five minutes and then it all goes off the rails.

Recently, I was expressing sadness that I haven't been able to return home for nearly a year and a half now. We are living under a 'residential stay-away' because of something that happened back in April 2023 and I have been in temporary accommodation since then. I sometimes just really miss my home. I miss my garden, I miss being able to see the trees change color this Fall, I missed knowing what little plants popped up in the spring. I was trying to express all this recently and my BPDh was supportive initially, but quickly became really irritated and finally said, "Don't do this to me!" I exploded at that point and said that I wasn't doing anything to him, I was just expressing my sadness and if I couldn't do that with him I would do it on my own. Then I stormed off and shut myself in the bedroom to cry.

Kells said:
It sounds like that is about the limit of what your spouse can do at this point in time. As "unfair" as it sounds short term, it may benefit both of you long term if you "take the win", recognize that your spouse can't provide much more support after that, and find either some alone time/space to keep processing, or connect with someone else (a friend, these boards, a counselor) for that processing.

I think that's really helpful. I'm having to learn that I'm never going to get the kind of emotional support from my BPDh that I can offer him. It will never be equal. I need to decide whether I'm okay with staying in a relationship where I give more than I get, and where I need to look elsewhere for the support that I need.

[314rabbit]

This thread really resonates for me. I'm definitely not allowed to be sad, or angry, or anxious - or in fact to have any emotions at all about any given situation beyond the superficial. It's like my spouse can tolerate my feelings for around five minutes and then it all goes off the rails.

Thank you for sharing that it resonates. I've been feeling alone lately, and it's nice to have people who get it. I'm so sorry that you cannot go home, and I'm even sorrier that your husband can't hold your hand through it. I love my home, and I know that I would be heartbroken to be away from it as long as you have been. You deserve to feel comfortable and to feel at home wherever you've decided it is.

I've decided to keep this thread running with my reflections on this issue. It's ongoing, and I expect that it will be for a long time. It helps me to process it here with those who get it.

Today my spouse made a mistake (minor) and I felt angry (minor) to which my spouse took off, came back to berate me, left again to call the crisis line, came back and told me I was having an extreme emotional response (I was sitting and looking at a phone), they left again I think, and then came back and told me that they were going to kill themselves. I left to go to a museum instead of experience all of this craziness. This was over my spouse buying fruit that I had wished they wouldn't buy. This was also done entirely in public at the farmer's market where we sell our products.

The museum was great by the way, I got free passes from the library (I was planning on taking my spouse on a nice date after we were done vending at the farmer's market). They had a new exhibit that I enjoyed, and I saw some weavings that interested me.

I feel like I have a lot of wins here. Besides me calling my spouse an asshole on my way to the museum, I feel as though I kept my cool really well and left at the right time. I'm not sorry that my spouse experiences natural consequences to their human mistakes (it happens to all of us! Sometimes people get mad when we buy things with money we don't have). I'm not sorry that my spouse experienced extreme emotions because they didn't like that I was mad (not my fault, not my responsibility!)

I wish they could have enjoyed the museum with me, but it was just not meant to be. This is the second date this week that I have planned, that they have ruined with these behaviors. The last one I wasn't able to enjoy at all, but this one ended up being very pleasant. I deserve to enjoy these dates I've planned, even if my spouse doesn't get to share them with me.