Should I ask for clarity?

[Wiseman]

Hello,

My uBPDxgf and I have been broken up for about 3 months now. She left me after a 4.5 year relationship. We were living together, and heavily enmeshed.

We’ve had LC over the course of the last 3 months via phone call, text, and even some in person meet ups. 

She tells me to “focus on myself” while all I want is some clarity on if she intends to want a future with me or not. Should I outright ask her/give her an ultimatum? The “not knowing” what her intentions are (combined with the LC) are driving me crazy.

Thanks for your help BPD fam

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[kells76]

Hi Wiseman and

Really smart of you to reach out for some feedback before making big relationship decisions. One of the key things we learn here is that our impulses or urges about what to do to "fix" the relationship aren't always effective or constructive if BPD is in the mix. When our anxieties drive the car, we can end up heading off the cliff instead of staying on the road.

Getting some backstory on your situation will definitely help.

It sounds like she initiated the breakup -- is that right? What was the nominal reason for the breakup?

She tells me to “focus on myself”

This seems like important information. What do you think she means? Did she have a recurring complaint or grievance (whether it seems reasonable or not) about you or the relationship -- like "he never listens to me" etc? Again, not saying who is right or wrong, or if she's justified... just trying to get a sense of what would be driving her to say she wants you to focus on yourself.

all I want is some clarity on if she intends to want a future with me or not. Should I outright ask her/give her an ultimatum? The “not knowing” what her intentions are (combined with the LC) are driving me crazy.

It's very possible that she doesn't know right now. Either it may be taking her a while to get back to a baseline -- to be 4.5 years together and then be only 3 months post breakup (with contact) is not a long time -- or it may not seem to her like you're taking her grievance/complaint seriously. Or it could be something else; it's hard to say. But I don't think the situation is: "she totally knows if she wants a future with you or not, and the only hurdle is she isn't telling you". I really think it's much more likely that she isn't sure right now.

What does seem clear to me is that insisting she give you an answer -- to satisfy your own anxiety or sense of being driven crazy -- won't communicate good things to her. It'll communicate, whether you intend to or not, that you aren't really ready to hear her, and that you need her to do stuff to handle your feelings. Gut feeling is I wouldn't recommend ultimatums or being insistent right now. If she isn't sure, that intensity might drive her to decide: "fine, if he can't be patient while I think, then I'll just cut it off for good now".

It does seem positive that the two of you are still meeting up and chatting.

What do you talk about?

What's the emotional tone/feel of those meetups?

She was with you for 4.5 years for a reason -- what drew her to you?

It's likely that if she decides she wants to get back together, she'll want to feel like you have your emotional stuff under control. Have you looked into any kind of counseling or therapy for yourself?

...

Lots of food for thought -- really glad you're here. It's a good place to talk through this stuff.

[Wiseman]

Hey Kells,

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate the insight and help. I'll jump right into your questions:

1. It sounds like she initiated the breakup -- is that right? What was the nominal reason for the breakup?

Yes, she initiated the breakup and move out, although she seems to have a little bit of revisionist history here, claiming that we both knew it was the right thing to do, all while I asked her multiple times to reconsider and not move out or break up. The reasons for the breakup are as numerous as they are ambiguous. I think the overarching reason is because she didn't feel "safe" in our relationship, and a general anxiety towards being with me. Apparently I emotionally triggered her by: not committing to her via a marriage proposal, not planning enough dates, not spending enough time with her and her friends, not going on enough vacations with her and her family, not getting her flowers frequently enough, not telling her that I loved her enough, not making myself available for phone calls while we were away from each other for work, not doing enough of the household chores, not making the bed as much as she did etc etc. She does usually say I "never" did this, or "always" did that, and I try to point out that is not fair because I DID do the stuff that she claims I never or always did or did not.

She has admitted to me that within our relationship she attempted to purposefully created an environment that she could "control" so that I wouldn't leave her. This seems to have been a realization she came to with her T (that she has been seeing for the past 3 months). From my understanding she had been in therapy before our relationship, but not during. Did this lack of therapy while in r/s lead to such a long and drawn out dysregulation that eventually led to our breakup? Maybe?

Regarding her atmosphere of control, I intuitively understood this, and didn't "leave" her regardless because I care about her and enjoyed being with her (despite the challenges). I was happy to give her the "control" she desired because she is pretty type A, and feels safe when she gets things her way. The irony is I think I ultimately over played my hand, and basically didn't create any boundaries because I thought that's what she wanted. This led to her feeling like she "had to do everything" in the relationship, and that she was some kind of quasi mother-figure towards me. Ultimately I explained to her that I never asked her to "do everything in the relationship", but the damage was already done at that point. She basically felt like I couldn't take care of her, as she has had to take care of herself her entire life due to an unstable childhood and poor relationship with her FOO. 

For me, what this dynamic amounted to in a practical sense is that I was constantly feeling smothered and engulfed by her expectations, and desire to mold our lives into 1 singular entity. So I would put distance between us to help myself reset and retain a sense of control over my own life and needs. Distance being, not joining her on every happy hour with her friends, or going to work on my creative projects during evening hours where we "could" be hanging out together. Ultimately this led to a large rift in our dynamic that consistently grew wider and wider as time went on, and likely fed to her feeling less and less safe, and less and less "chosen". 

2. This seems like important information. What do you think she means? Did she have a recurring complaint or grievance (whether it seems reasonable or not) about you or the relationship -- like "he never listens to me" etc? Again, not saying who is right or wrong, or if she's justified... just trying to get a sense of what would be driving her to say she wants you to focus on yourself.

I have recognized and admitted to her after being in therapy for the past 3 months that I have/had some pretty avoidant tendencies throughout our relationship. What I am trying to come to grips with is: are these avoidant tendencies inherent in my personality (maybe) or were they exacerbated and triggered due to her need for control and desire to "move our lives forward" with a variety of commitments - marriage, buying a house, starting a business together etc. Do I have a "fear of engulfment"? Maybe.

I think what she means by "focus on yourself" is to heal my avoidant tendencies so I can be a better partner to her (or whoever I am in the next relationship with), while also giving her the space she needs to come back to baseline. I had no idea about BPD, and any of the nuances of it until after the relationship ended and my T suggested there might be some BPD traits being exhibited by my ex. She uses pretty "on the nose" words and phrases that imply a mutual understanding of her potential BPD when we text - like "I really need to figure out how to regulate." She has recently admitted that she felt stressed, with high levels of cortisol throughout our ENTIRE relationship because she feared that the "other shoe would drop" and that I was constantly "waiting for the next best thing (woman) to come around."

3. It does seem positive that the two of you are still meeting up and chatting.

What do you talk about?

We don't meet up very frequently, it's been maybe 2-3 times since she moved out. She has interestingly left quite a bit of "stuff" at our former shared home, which she has come by to pick up at various intervals. Clothes, personal items, one of her 2 cars (still here) etc. 

When do talk/meet up sometimes we talk about what's going on in our lives, sometimes we talk about the aspects of our relationship that we regret and didn't handle in a healthy way, sometimes we talk about fond memories of our relationship. Recently in the past week, she has called me twice around 9-10PM (after a couple of alcoholic drinks) and we've discussed a variety of topics that lead me to believe she misses me.

She has been "dating" a new guy since we broke up, and the reasons why she feels safe this "new guy" are murky at best. He basically asked her for her number while we were still living together and dating, and I assume the attention from someone who wasn't me (her boyfriend that couldn't meet her needs), as exciting to her. She has since explained to me that they are "dating" but he isn't funny like I am, and she doesn't feel a strong connection to him (like she did to me when we first started going out.)

He's apparently very safe, stable, and not funny (her words not mine), but he's also a friend of her best friends boyfriend (so there is a sense of familiarity there - he's not a complete stranger). She says that he's been there for her in a really emotionally difficult time in her life (our breakup) and for that, she is thankful for him. She has mentioned that her T has suggested that this is a pretty "low stakes" time for her? My interpretation is that the implication is she could/should explore a relationship with this other guy while she works on herself, and is getting herself back to a baseline of non-anxiety. My fear is that she weighs "being taken care of" as more valuable than what we had - creative and intellectual counterpoint, and a strong sense of inherent connection (soul mate?).

4. What's the emotional tone/feel of those meetups?

The emotional tone varies. Sometimes it's nostalgic and missing of our time and dynamic together (this is more likely after she has had a couple of drinks, and if she is the one to initiate contact and reach out to me). Sometimes its tense and frustrated because of my interest in getting information about what she's been up to, if her new "relationship" is making her happy, why she won't give us another chance to fix what we broke (she has admitted fault in her handling of 50% of the relationship). Usually these tense and frustrated interactions are when I reach out to her to catch up. Interesting double standard here, I am very open and receptive to having her reach out to me, and do my best to comfort her when she is sad and/or nostalgic but I don't get the same level of reciprocity and basically just have to "eat it" when I want to reach out or talk about our relationship.

5. She was with you for 4.5 years for a reason -- what drew her to you?

Tough to say if there is a single thing that drew her to me. She has told me in the past and recognizes that I am funny, witty, creative, interesting, good style, good family, stable career, willing to give and caretake, patient, kind etc. Not to toot my own horn, as I definitely have my own shortcomings in relationship (avoidant etc). As I mentioned earlier, she felt a strong connection to me early on (and I to her) because she recognized me as a unique and talented individual that potentially matched her own creativity and talent. She even admitted this in our last conversation while saying she doesn't feel the same connection with the new guy. We really were like 2 halves of a whole, and had an amazing ability to "see and know" each other in terms of our creative and intellectual compatibility. It didn't hurt that our physical relationship was also pretty dynamite, and that continued even til the end of the relationship (even while our emotional relationship was breaking down).

Have you looked into any kind of counseling or therapy for yourself?

I've been going to a T for the past 3 months, which I feel has helped me gain clarity on some of my own internal issues. But after talking with my T and he bringing awareness to a potential BPD (he can't diagnose my ex as she's not his patient, but he feels strongly this is the case based on my anecdotes and information), I feel more confused, frustrated, and anxious about the future, which has led me to this forum. She has acknowledged my emotional intelligence has "gone up" quite a but since starting therapy, and that she feels like I am becoming healthier and healthier, but our last conversation - initiated by me (so full of tension and frustration) didn't go to well. She suggested that "we only talk during the daytime" (no nighttime conversation), and that I continue to "focus on myself" as my last message to her was: "all I want is a chance to fix what we broke"