Help with problematic relationship with sister in law

[Depression = 72% of members]

I’m very interested to understand more about ways to manage relationship with my sister in law who has recently (2 years returned to the country with her family from overseas). It’s been a really hectic and stressful season as she has always been extremely creative and impulsive.  I’ve only spent small holiday visits with her over the past 20 years so she is very much unknown.  She returned very much immersing herself within every area of our lives which we were excited about at the time and then behaviour became unpredictable, undermining and quiet personally destructive in what seemed like a very quick period of time.  She sudden announced she was divorcing her husband because he had been abusing her, started other risk taking behaviours such as drugs and sex with much younger men.  Raves ect.  She has lost significant weight and is also getting into conflicts with various people across our social networks while speaking quite badly of us. 

I’m so sad and also quiet frustrated that I’ve been fooled by her initial appearance and appearing so similar to our family as if almost mirroring us as she often said things like I admire you so much,  I would like to be more like you, I love your family and the life you have created, I’m so excited to be here.  And then in what seemed like a few weeks she became distant with no level of relationship but was almost trying to make me look bad in my social circles.  The vibe I get was trying to replace me / displace me.  Eg subtly say that we are not what we seem and casting doubt to my friends, becoming overly familiar with people she hasn’t known long and sharing graphic sexual abuse stories or other things to illicit pity and create quick closenessby disclosure in what seems like very inappropriate environments.

Similar things have happened in the broader family environment.  As she was openly angry and undermining in our larger family context.   Saying we are spoiled, favourite kids, comparing ect ect

Its spiraling and I’m not 100% sure how to get some stability with this. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[PoppyPenguin]

I’m very interested to understand more about ways to manage relationship with my sister in law who has recently (2 years returned to the country with her family from overseas). It’s been a really hectic and stressful season as she has always been extremely creative and impulsive.  I’ve only spent small holiday visits with her over the past 20 years so she is very much unknown.  She returned very much immersing herself within every area of our lives which we were excited about at the time and then behaviour became unpredictable, undermining and quiet personally destructive in what seemed like a very quick period of time.  She sudden announced she was divorcing her husband because he had been abusing her, started other risk taking behaviours such as drugs and sex with much younger men.  Raves ect.  She has lost significant weight and is also getting into conflicts with various people across our social networks while speaking quite badly of us. 

I’m so sad and also quiet frustrated that I’ve been fooled by her initial appearance and appearing so similar to our family as if almost mirroring us as she often said things like I admire you so much,  I would like to be more like you, I love your family and the life you have created, I’m so excited to be here.  And then in what seemed like a few weeks she became distant with no level of relationship but was almost trying to make me look bad in my social circles.  The vibe I get was trying to replace me / displace me.  Eg subtly say that we are not what we seem and casting doubt to my friends, becoming overly familiar with people she hasn’t known long and sharing graphic sexual abuse stories or other things to illicit pity and create quick closenessby disclosure in what seems like very inappropriate environments.

Similar things have happened in the broader family environment.  As she was openly angry and undermining in our larger family context.   Saying we are spoiled, favourite kids, comparing ect ect

Its spiraling and I’m not 100% sure how to get some stability with this. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Notwendy]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Is this your spouse's sister or is she married to your sibling? Are their children involved?

The reason I ask this is- because if you "oppose" her, she may solicit other family members to "her side".

This could be your spouse- or sibling. Your spouse isn't likely to go along with her but sibling might- this is because the romantic bond seems to supercede other family bonds. If there are children, she may refuse contact with you.

You can have boundaries- but it's also good to be aware of possible reactions and so not react in ways to increase drama. The Karpman triangle helped me to understand these better.

[PoppyPenguin]

I feel like all of those things have happened.  She is my husbands sister and there was a year of really passive attempts to distance the majority of the family from me.  I think when her behaviours became very overt it was almost a relief as I felt like I was loosing my mind as my intuition told me that thinks really weren’t right but she appeared so shiny and perfect family life to our social circles.

We have never really had relationship with their children except for small windows of time across the past 20 years but yes there has been a clear separation of them from our lives as the situation has progressed.

My husband is very strong presence in the extended family as the oldest child. I’ve basically removed myself for all interactions atm but it appears that the family are pretty clearly divided amongst people who are strongly supporting sister in law and those who have questions about the truth of what’s going on.

My main concern is mitigating the impact that it’s having in our community and social networks as I feel like I’ve introduced someone who is very untrustworthy into so many levels of our lives.

[Notwendy]

I understand. Where does your husband stand on this situation?

My BPD mother sees people on either her side or not her side and this has been a divisive aspect of our family. Her social persona is quite effective at drawing people to "her side".

I don't know if your H is more "on her side" or she sees him ( and you ) as a competition and so the two of you become more of her target to undermine.

I wish I had better advice. My BPD mother is not living close enough to be in my community but I keep a distance from people in her circle. I do not underestimate her ability to socially arrange these situations.

I agree with you that this is a possibly divisive situation. I would be careful to safeguard your private information and your closest social circle and employment. I think going NC when she's in your area could prompt a reaction from her. Going "grey rock"- only sharing what you don't consider to be private, being cordial to her but not emotional, take the relationship to more like aquaintance- gradually.

[PoppyPenguin]

I think that’s a very fair assumption.  My husband and I are strongly aligned that all decisions are made together but I feel like we have already opened up so much of our life and relationships which she actively tried to undermine.  It’s been interesting to watch because she is extremely charming and can almost become a chameleon into any group but that only is maintainable for so long before there is a relational crack.

She seems to align with one person who can help her and makes them her confidant and closest support and friend and then gets a lot of information reciprocally and then seems to use that against you.  Eg.  Complaining about how much she doesn’t like her mum and then if you agree with any element of what she says even tone empathetic she will share that information to align the person against you out of context.  It’s wild and I feel like it’s intentional but I would like to believe she is just having drastic mood swings or feeling it of control herself and it’s not deliberate.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother does this too. Her public persona is very charming. It's eerie to see it.

Whether or not it's intentional- it's the behavior we want to address. I don't know exactly why my mother does this- but whatever the reason is- it's divisive  behavior. I think it's possible to feel both empathy for her situation and also protect yourself.

BPD affects all relationships- including their friendships.

It's not possible to control what your SIL does with other people. Don't be naive to her behavior but keep the focus on your integrity and relationships. You didn't know about this when she first moved near you and you welcomed her- anyone in your situation would have done the same. Now you know there's a need for some boundaries.

I don't know what to do about relationships that have been harmed by this behavior.  Eventually, some have seen through her behavior in time, but if they choose to align with her, there's not much anyone can do about that.

[PoppyPenguin]

For the first year I just silently watched but didn’t say anything but slowly different friends have approached me a they felt uncomfortable with her behaviour and I was able to apologise for introducing the complexity into their lives.  All of which have given me a hug and said that they’ve known us for. Very long time and could see through the narratives.

There has been. Solid break now with no contact for bout 6 months but I’m trying to figure out how to potentially engage in. Healthy way as I she will be in our lives in some way or another in the future so just need to renegotiate what some good buddies could look like.

I think that from what I’m seeing once there is some form of crash and consequence for the behaviour it’s possible for another charming cycle to happen?  I’ve seen that in smaller versions where she lashes out and then tearfully apologizes but repeats the same behaviour to now everyone seems to walk on eggshells around what type of mood she will be in.

I think it’s drastically changed the culture of our family as it was so open and kind and inclusive.  Now it’s tense and quite obligatory interactions as everyone is nervous.  I love the openness so feel like it’s changing the way I show up which I don’t like.  Reading through some info it seems like things very common?

[Notwendy]

I wish I had better advice, but yes - I think this is common and it has caused rifts in my family. There is also a cycle to this- with my mother being angry at me and then coming around later but it's hard to predict. She has aligned several people to "her side" if she is angry at me.

For me, I can't "compete" with this . I don't think about this kind of thing. I'm mostly focused on my own world- family, work, friends, etc. I can't change what she does or says to people. It's sad to think people might believe her but I can't change that either.

One boundary I have with her is to not tell her anything that I wouldn't care if it was shared. She doesn't keep information confidential. When she would visit, we would lock up any personal items as she tends to go through personal spaces. Start by keeping personal boundaries.

[PoppyPenguin]

Thanks so much.  That's really helpful and appreciate the you spending some much time thoughtfully replying.  Are there any other helpful boundaries that we should think about that might really help?

I'm trying to think about how we protect our children (11 & 13) as they still want relationship with their cousins to this auntie.  But just need to think of ways to keep that safe and healthy.

[Notwendy]

This is about the ages where my BPD mother began to enlist my children as her emotional caretaker. She's subltle about it. She will ask for a small thing- something that it seems reasonable to not refuse- and then she will do it again, in increments.

One clue to this was when we were visiting, she wanted one of my children to take her trash cans to the curb for her. Reasonable request. My kids would do it. But the child she asked for was busy doing something fun, and I was right there and said "I'll do it" and she said "no, I want _______(child's name) to do it.

Doing things for my mother is a way she meets her emotional needs. Somehow her request felt creepy to me. I just know how she does this. If she wanted the trash cans taken out, it wouldn't matter who did it for her.

One of my boundaries is that my kids are not alone with my mother when they were younger ( they are adults now). This is because of how she behaved with us. I don't think she would be overtly abusive to my children but I could see that, once they were old enough to be "useful" to her, she'd try to get her needs met with them. She also tried to get them alone with her- and she triangulates- telling them things about me to get them to "her side" by having a shared secret between them. She's tried this with my husband. So the other boundary I had was for them to stick together and not go off in another room with their grandmother.

The other boundary is similar to mine - don't share personal information with her. She doesn't have good boundaries. They still talked to her but information like "our soccer team won" type of information.

I think the most important boundary for them was to reinforce their own boundaries. If they feel uncomfortable- they need to trust that feeling. Not only with my mother but with anyone. I think it's fine for them to have connections with their cousins. This may mean a lot to them.

It may be that the cousins spend more time at your house and this may also be a refuge for them. We kids spent time with my father's family. It was a way for us to experience a "normal" situation. I am still close to these cousins. I am very grateful for my father's family for this. It's also probably OK for your kids to play with their cousins there in a group as your SIL is likely to hold it together more when others are there if you feel it's safe. My BPD mother would not have acted up as much in front of other people. But I wouldn't have your kids spend extended time there. Just diplomatically offer your place instead.