If someones actions are driven by mental illness are they "toxic" or "ill"?

[Depression = 72% of members]

If someones actions are driven by their mental illness (assuming BPD is a mental illness) does that really make them "toxic", or are they just "ill"; or doesn't it matter?

To me it matters. I think my ex is ill and needs care and therapy, some of her behaviour is toxic, sure.

My uncle who was in constant physical pain before his death behaved in a toxic way too, but we figured it was down to his illness, so we forgave him for that.

[Amber London]

If someones actions are driven by their mental illness (assuming BPD is a mental illness) does that really make them "toxic", or are they just "ill"; or doesn't it matter?

To me it matters. I think my ex is ill and needs care and therapy, some of her behaviour is toxic, sure.

My uncle who was in constant physical pain before his death behaved in a toxic way too, but we figured it was down to his illness, so we forgave him for that.

[HoratioX]

If someones actions are driven by their mental illness (assuming BPD is a mental illness) does that really make them "toxic", or are they just "ill"; or doesn't it matter?

To me it matters. I think my ex is ill and needs care and therapy, some of her behaviour is toxic, sure.

My uncle who was in constant physical pain before his death behaved in a toxic way too, but we figured it was down to his illness, so we forgave him for that.

Toxic is toxic. The cause or motivation is not the issue. Whether someone throws acid in your face or accidentally spills it on your face, the result is the same -- you are getting burned.

That doesn't mean you can be sympathetic or compassionate. You can forgive someone. You can encourage them to get help.

But if you then keep getting acid thrown in your face, that's on you. You invited it back into your life, and you made it possible to happen.

When someone is healthy, they see reality for what it is. When someone is codependent, they keep making excuses to put themselves in harm's way.

[HoratioX]

Toxic is toxic. The cause or motivation is not the issue. Whether someone throws acid in your face or accidentally spills it on your face, the result is the same -- you are getting burned.

That doesn't mean you can be sympathetic or compassionate. You can forgive someone. You can encourage them to get help.

But if you then keep getting acid thrown in your face, that's on you. You invited it back into your life, and you made it possible to happen.

When someone is healthy, they see reality for what it is. When someone is codependent, they keep making excuses to put themselves in harm's way.

Sorry -- "can't be sympathetic . . ." Wish there was an edit function on this board.

[Amber London]

Sorry -- "can't be sympathetic . . ." Wish there was an edit function on this board.

It's not always about co-dependency. It can be about emotional maturity. If you're hurt, that's because you're allowing yourself to be hurt. Her actions are her business. Any woman pwBDP or otherwise is entitled to leave you any time she likes. If she goes, let her go, or are you her jailer?

My ex is my ex because she decided to be my ex. I have accepted that. I did not even try to persuade her otherwise. Why should I? If she wants me, I'm still here for now, but not on my knees. I have a lot of love and compassion for her, in particular because of her illnesses, and would like to see her happy, safe and well, with or without me. She is safe, but not happy or well.

[HoratioX]

It's not always about co-dependency. It can be about emotional maturity. If you're hurt, that's because you're allowing yourself to be hurt. Her actions are her business. Any woman pwBDP or otherwise is entitled to leave you any time she likes. If she goes, let her go, or are you her jailer?

My ex is my ex because she decided to be my ex. I have accepted that. I did not even try to persuade her otherwise. Why should I? If she wants me, I'm still here for now, but not on my knees. I have a lot of love and compassion for her, in particular because of her illnesses, and would like to see her happy, safe and well, with or without me. She is safe, but not happy or well.

I'm not sure I'm following/understanding your line of reasoning. It doesn't matter who leaves -- what matters is if the healthy person, knowing the turmoil the person with BPD, etc., causes, chooses to nonetheless be in a relationship with them. Maturity has nothing to do with that choice. Codependency does.

If you know someone's behavior is toxic to you and you choose to be with them, that's not normal. That's not healthy. Normal and healthy behavior is to avoid someone like that. Codependency is to want to be in a relationship with them, regardless of whether they make the move toward reconciliation or you do.

You might want to talk to a therapist about this further. There's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling sympathy or compassion for someone afflicted with a profound mental or emotional illness like BPD. But to choose to be in a relationship with them knowing the nature of that illness? That sounds like codependency.

[Notwendy]

Maybe it would help to look at the terms.

Toxic is relative to you, not the motive or reason of the other person. If you drank poison, it would be toxic, no matter what the "motive" of the poison. If it were accidental, or deliberate- the effect on you is the same.

People may use the term "that person is toxic" but that isn't about the person- it's how their behavior affect you. The behavior is toxic to you, the relationship is toxic to you.

We have the right to decide if a situation is not good for our own emotional well being. It's not about the other person.

BPD is a mental illness however, not all mental illnesses mean a person isn't legally competent. Most people with BPD remain legally competent- which means they are accountable for their decisions and behavior. If a person with BPD who is legally competent robbed a bank, they may go to jail like anyone else. A pwBPD has free will and can choose to break up with someone if they want to.

Yes, they need treatment but they also have the ability to consent to treatment or refuse it. The best anyone can do is offer it to them.

BPD is on a spectrum. Some people with BPD are relatively high functioning, some have other issues- such as addictions. Some are physically abusive. Each person decides how the relationship affects them. Is this toxic to you?

Forgiveness is separate. It's a decision we make, regardless of the other person or what they did. It may be easier to forgive the elderly uncle than the ex, due to the different relationships, but you can still decide- the relationship is toxic, not good for you, not something you want - even if you choose to forgive the ex,