How to protect 12 year old from mother's rage and guilt

[mothperson]

Hi, I'm looking for advice about how to involve (or not involve) my 12 year old in upcoming custody decisions i need to make.

Background; My ex is her birth mother, I met the both of them when my daughter was 3 months old, became legal parent at 5 which was around the time that we broke up and ex moved out of town for the first (of many) times. 

Basically since then, ex moves away, regrets/blames me/accuses me of kidnapping our kid, makes pronouncements about what their rights are "i get summers and holidays etc" comes back for a visit and sometimes decides to stay, creates a bunch of chaos, leaves again.

There have been stints of trying to do 50/50, (which I deeply regret for how much my daughter suffered) stints of them living sort of close and coming to visit weekends, stints of them moving to another country, etc etc. Each time they return, it starts off kind of calm and then they make a demand that can't be satisfied, and fly off the handle.

In the meantime i have a really good therapist, and have some excellent support and I think I have done a pretty good job of creating a stable home and good, open communication w kiddo. And I have had a lot of help making sure I don't demonize the ex, nor deny my kid's experience. 

Last summer was the first time I definitively stopped a visit from happening (instead of letting ex flame out and leave voluntarily) because kiddo was desperate not to go, and it would have involved her having to get on a plane alone. So i wrote ex the night before saying kid didn't want to go, and I wouldn't force her.
That was the first time ex used the full force of guilt trip on Kiddo - 'you've hurt me so much, I'm already so sick and weak and helpless etc etc.' It was awful, but also encouraging to see kiddo get mad at them too, instead of just guilty and ashamed.
Since then, Kiddo has expressed clearly and consistently that she wants to see ex, but never wants stay over/be taken care of.
I promised she would not have to go visit them where they moved last time, and that I would make sure it was framed as my decision, not about her feelings (so she wouldn't have to feel guilty)

Current situation:
Ex has returned to the country, again announcing last minute that they are moving back. They were in our city for a few weeks and seeing Kid regularly /casually after school, but now currently staying with their mom a 5 hour drive away.

I recently made the mistake of going along with a plan for my kid to visit there for a day or two, as it's on our way to my family where we have plans to visit, because grandma has been a fun family member, has helped me when ex has left, and kiddo hasn't been able to see her for over a year.

It was last minute, and ex and I hadn't agreed on timeline yet (or so I thought) so I was surprised to find out ex had told kiddo she was visiting for a week, and grandma had already taken time off work etc.

I called grandma to talk about the plan, and was thrown off guard by her sounding exactly like ex (argumentative, guilt trippy, defensive, angry, crying, the whole thing). I became pretty dysregulated and got into an argument with her where I made the huge mistake of telling her that kiddo always says yes to Ex because she is afraid not to.

Grandma told Ex what I had said, and Ex sent Kiddo long angry letter, followed by a phonecall accusing her of lying, not caring, hurting her family etc etc . By the end of the call (which Kiddo invited me to listen in on) kiddo was telling Ex that she is happy to visit, wants to go, while Ex used sobbing sad voice to say "you can tell me anything, just please tell me if you don't want to come".
Last time kiddo admitted to Ex she felt unsafe, Ex turned it into the biggest, worst guilt trip, so it is understandable why this happened the way it did. Then Ex went on to blame me for it all, (which is better but not when kiddo has to hear it!)

So kiddo definitely does not want to go, and of course that's okay with me.

So here, (finally) is where I need advice;

Kiddo does not feel ready for me to tell Ex and Grandma the reason that the visit is cancelled (that she doesn't feel safe with them). She says it's because she already told them she wants to go, and is afraid of being called a liar again.
And I'm sure all of the other reasons that go along with it.

So I am preparing to just email and say no visit, sorry.

But, I am worried about the blowback if I do that. Because Kiddo really loves and wants to see Ex, just doesn't want to have to sleep over.

And if I send this, I am worried about the kind of escalation that might be impossible to come back from. Especially because we both have plans to be in the same city a few days from now, and I am scared of either of us seeing Ex so soon after this rejection
 
Whereas if I tell them that kiddo really doesn't want to go, and present alternatives for visits, there will be blowback but it could be short-lived and manageable (at least that has been the experience thus far)

Part of me already understands that it doesn't matter what I say, because my job is to protect my daughter. But I am so worried about doing the wrong thing and making things worse for her!

I hope this made some sense, and I am very grateful for any opinions and feedback!



 

[Notwendy]

It makes sense to me. I think it's great that you are protecting your daughter and also that you are listening to her.

If she is saying she doesn't feel safe with her mother, believe her. Since she's grown up with you, she has boundaries and knows when a person isn't "safe". These are good boundaries. They will protect her from getting into relationships with other unsafe people in the future.

At 12, I was aware enough to be able to say the same thing about my BPD mother. We kids grew up feeling afraid of her. We weren't emotionally safe around her.

This is different from not caring about my mother, or being disrespectful, or not being decent to her. I did care about her, but as an adult, I had to have boundaries with her. As a child, I didn't have that choice.

Your child has said exactly what she's able to handle- wanting to visit her mother and yet, not wanting to sleep over. Like your D, I still wanted some contact with your mother. my mother. I had a relationship with her. I just knew the situations I could handle. I chose to stay at a hotel when I visited my mother alone. It's because the visit felt safer that way. Also visits when other people were around were safer. I had the same boundaries with my own children- they had a relationship with my parents but I didn't leave them alone with my BPD mother.

Her grandmother is not going to be much help to your position if she is her child's enabler.  Yes, there will be blowback, but if you put your child's feelings and boundaries aside to avoid that- you are in a sense, invalidating them. This would make you the accessory to her mother's behavior, confuse her and be hurtful to her self esteem. IMHO, the blowback is minor compared to the emotional affect on your D of you putting her in a situation she doesn't feel emotionally safe in to avoid it.

[mothperson]

Thank you @Notwendy I really appreciate this <3

Do you have any insight into whether or not I should tell Ex and grandma that child feels unsafe?

Part of me is worried that I only want to do it to make things less complicated for my own self ,
but I also worry that if I leave that out and let her continue to pretend that she Daughter feels safe to avoid conflict, it might be setting her up for more dissonance with Ex later on .. (I'm not sure if that makes sense, I can try to clarify when I get home)

[Notwendy]

If this were my situation, I wouldn't tell them your D doesn't feel safe.  Read up on the Karpman triangle. My BPD mother perceived things from victim perspective. Anything that could be seen as critical was felt by her as a personal attack and she'd react. Our collective family rule was that "BPD mother is normal" and her family of origin shared in that. Anything that went against the idea was rejected.

My situation was different in that my parents stayed together so my father was not the custodial parent. My father was on one hand a protector who cared for us but he also was focused on my BP mother and her feelings.

Also, to my BPD mother, she seemed unaware of her behavior- because all the while she felt like she was the victim. Also, we were never overtly abuses. There were the rages, the blaming, the emotional and verbal abuses- but we were also well taken care of- we had clothes, food, school, a nice house, and the behaviors were only at home. So since we were taken care of, it wouldn't register that we felt unsafe.

It wasn't just the rages but that, we were felt to be responsible for BPD mother's feelings - that was more subtle.

I didn't rock the boat with my parents for the most part. We visited as a family and BPD mother knew to hold it together with my kids and she did during these visits. I wasn't concerned about them seeing her dysregulated. My first inking that there was more to it was when they were old enough to be "useful" to her and she was beginning to enlist them as emotional caretakers. When my oldest was about 12, I thought it was safe to leave the kids with my parents to run a short errand. When I came back, oldest child said "don't ever leave me alone with them again". But nothing happened that was obvious. They didn't do anything harmful. It was the sense of feeling unsafe with my BPD mother. They could somehow sense it. It also was because BPD mother was looking to them for emotional caretaking. The same thing happened when I was about that age.

So I didn't stop the visits but stayed with them. They were old enough to visit on their own and BPD mother wanted more alone time with them, but I did not allow this. My BPD mother was angry about that and perceived this as "keeping her from her grandchildren".

I don't think you can do much to control the relationship between your D and her mother. It is good that you are not saying negative things about your ex or triangulating. As your D matures though, the relationship is a function of the two of them. My relationship with each of my parents was different because- they were different people. Teens can be moody and emotional and this may make the teen years with her mother more challenging but your D will mature and manage her own relationship as she does.

I wouldn't say anything to them. I'd plan the visit according to your and your D's wishes. If your D doesn't want to see them at all- then drive straight through to see your family and just tell them them there won't be a visit.

If your D does want to see them, but not stay over- then get a hotel room for you and your D.  Then let her visit her mother during the day, pick her up at at about dinner time or after. Then have movie night with your child at the hotel-  order in burgers, popcorn, and let her unwind. Do this for one or two days and then continue your trip.

You don't have to explain. You are the legal parent and you decide who your D sleeps over with.

[ForeverDad]

Also try to get additional resources on your daughter's side.  I'm referring to counselors who are focused on her.  There are school counselors who can provide limited support and insight.

But you can also start her with local social services who provide counseling services for minors.  One complication might be that individual counselors may require both parents to sign off on counseling since they want to avoid lawsuits or complaints to licensing boards.

She is approaching her teens, she's growing up.  If things ever head in a legal direction with family court involved then she's old enough now for her to have in camera interviews with the judge.  Otherwise, generally the experts surrounding the court would be the ones providing the reports indirectly to the court.

Eventually and over time, even before she's 18, she will be able to, as the saying goes, "vote with her feet".  That is, she will gradually have the confidence to more and more stand on her own two feet.

[mothperson]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that. I just wrote the letter to say D won’t be staying over with Ex any longer , and I am bracing but calm because this has been a long time coming and I know it is the right thing to do.

D was seeing an art therapist for a while , interestingly never spoke about Ex, but worked through a complicated friendship with a girl who had very similar characteristics and attachment issues as Ex, and ultimately decided to end the friendship!

But it’s been a few years and I appreciate the suggestion to find  more formal support.youre right and I think it’s time to do that again.

[Notwendy]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that. I just wrote the letter to say D won’t be staying over with Ex any longer , and I am bracing but calm because this has been a long time coming and I know it is the right thing to do.

D was seeing an art therapist for a while , interestingly never spoke about Ex, but worked through a complicated friendship with a girl who had very similar characteristics and attachment issues as Ex, and ultimately decided to end the friendship!

But it’s been a few years and I appreciate the suggestion to find  more formal support.youre right and I think it’s time to do that again.

To me, this is a great thing you have done. Our families of origin have an influence on our future relationships (all relationships, including romantic ones). Parents, and the dynamics in the family are role models for relationships.

What you have seen with your D is that, we gravitate towards the familiar (even if it is a disordered familiar) and tend to repeat family dynamics. Our families are our "normal". As children, we don't know any other "normal". In my family, compliance with BPD mother, walking on eggshells, were expected behaviors.

It then makes sense that your D got into a friendship with someone who had similar behaviors to her mother. It's not possible to know if that girl had a disorder or was acting out in her own family issues but regardless- you made a positive change for your D- by letting her know it's OK to ask for help, by reinforcing her own boundaries about this person- which will help her to navigate future relationships with other people and her mother.

You gave her permission to say "no" when her own natural boundaries felt crossed. In addition, you role modeled it for her by saying "no" to her mother while still maintaining how to act respectfully to her.

I think having the resource of counseling for you D is a good idea. This is still her mother- and she will need to make her own way in navigating a relationship with her. It will evolve as she matures.