is it a ping?

[CanBuild91]

I'm nearly three years out from my breakup, which I've written about at length on this board, and gotten so much helpful feedback. Something happened recently which really got my head spinning, wondering if it was a ping after so much silence.

I'm big into cherrypicking and every year post on Instagram about cherry season. Anybody who knows me knows that this is a tradition, and in fact three years ago, the last spring that my ex and I were together, she even participated in my cherrypicking photoshoot.  

Last month, she posted a cherry themed post of her own. Not cherrypicking, but her wearing all red, wearing cherry earrings, and the caption was just a cherry emoji. It was a cherry post.

I immediately polled my friends and pretty much everybody agrees that it can't be an accident or oversight, like she suddenly forgot that I have this cherry season tradition, but people disagree on what to do about it. One friend said that it's clearly a ping, some kind of flirty message that only I would pick up on, and that I should send a flirty easter egg back in my yearly post. More people however have advised me to do nothing about it.

Here's sort of how I'm feeling about it. After the breakup, I begged and sent flowers and gifts and apologies and more flowers and more apologies. I stopped doing that after a few months, but I didn't stop grappling with the breakup. I read books on BPD, and trauma, and surviving BPD parents which I think is her situation. I also took account of my own failings, the ways I JADEd rather than listened, empathized, and validated her feelings. I've done the work.

My texts have been blocked from the beginning, and as of last January were still blocked. I want so badly to reconnect with my ex but after all I've done, I feel like she has to open the door in a more real way. I don't know what to do with red clothes and a cherry emoji.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this situation? I don't want her to feel like "well I tried" with that post, and that my silence is a rejection, but I just don't know what to do about it.

Do you think her post was a ping, and if so, what next?

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[Under The Bridge]

It may well be a 'ping'.. but it might just be a ping sent out to see if you're still there, and not because she necessarily wants to reconnect seriously. Remember, BPD's like to know that their ex's are still available and are an option. She may be having a quiet time at the moment, with nobody else in her life so is testing the waters with you.

She's blocked you for a long time, which you should take into consideration. If you want to send her a brief message then go for it - just don't get your expectations up and end up disappointed. 3 years apart has hopefully given you some time to heal, even though you still miss her, so you need to think whether you want to get back on the train again.

A 'Hey, I loved your cherry photo, brings back the happy memories' would be enough to put the ball back in her court. If she genuinely wants to engage further then great.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[CanBuild91]

Thanks for your response, Under the Bridge, I appreciate your thoughts.

I decided not to respond to the cherry post. I figured that I have made so much effort to reconcile, sending sincere apologies and taking full accountability for my role in the dysfunction. My last couple of emails were low stakes check ins, which she could have easily responded to but didn’t. I decided that if she wants to reconnect, she knows how. She can unblock my texts and send me something more intentional. “This picture popped up and reminded me of the time we…” I just didn’t know what to do with a cherry post that I can’t be 100% sure was directed at me, and so I did nothing. She needs to take a bigger step towards me.

It’s been two months since the cherry post, and yesterday she posted something else which seems like a ping. It was just a photo of her, slightly thirsty trappy, but the music choice seemed to be a reference to our other biggest couples joke, and a subject of real intimacy between us. It’s her first post since the cherry, and it sure seems like another reference to us.

Has anybody else been in this situation? I don’t know what to do with this, because I’ll seem crazy if I reach out “hey I saw you posted something that looked like a reference…” so again I’m inclined to just ignore it, but I also don’t want her to feel like she tried to get my attention and it didn’t work so she gives up. From my perspective I need something much more clear and direct, but it’s also hard to overestimate her insecurity and fear of rejection.

Do you guys think she’ll keep escalating and reach out more directly?

[Under The Bridge]

My last couple of emails were low stakes check ins, which she could have easily responded to but didn’t. I decided that if she wants to reconnect, she knows how. She can unblock my texts and send me something more intentional. “This picture popped up and reminded me of the time we…” I just didn’t know what to do with a cherry post that I can’t be 100% sure was directed at me, and so I did nothing. She needs to take a bigger step towards me.

It’s been two months since the cherry post, and yesterday she posted something else which seems like a ping.

Actions speak louder than words.  As you rightly say, she can connect with you any time she wants but it takes 2 months for her next ping. She's obviously in no great urgent need to contact you so this looks like she's throwing the fishing line out again to see if she gets a bite, meanwhile she continues with whatever she's doing - be it on her own or with someone else.

She may continue to send these pings from time to time but I wouldn't build up my hopes and expect a solid and direct message from her. It may happen though - nobody can predict the thoughts and actions of a BPD. I'd be inclined to ignore the pings and wait for something more concrete and proof of her intentions.

I would be wary though - you've been apart 3 years now and, while you naturally think of her, you should be getting on with life as normal. 3 years is a lot of time to spend only to end up back at square one in the same problematic relationship.

Best wishes.

[CanBuild91]

The social media messages have gotten more explicit. She’s moved from posting what I believe are inside jokes / references that only I would pick up on, to her latest post having a song which is as explicit as it could be, lyrics that say: “I can’t stop thinking about you, I think about texting you all the time, I wish I could take everything back…”

Do these increasingly explicit and vulnerable posts typically continue escalating to direct contact? And how can she square these messages with her friend group, who’s spent the last couple of years hearing that I’m the devil? It’s one thing to post inside jokes, but this is as clear as it can be: “I miss him.”

It’s just frustrating because I’ve spent three years thinking about what I did wrong and what I know I could do  better, to have a happy relationship if we ever got a second chance. I’ve sent apologies and flowers and more apologies and had to stop over a year ago. I came to the conclusion that the ball has to be in her court. She has to bridge the gap. I hope in her mind that these posts aren’t her attempt at reaching out and that by not responding I’m rejecting her in her, because I’m here and ready to know her again and be good to her, but I need her to do more than post on social media. I need a text or an email.

[Rowdy]

She might well be reaching out. Problem with bpd is fear of abandonment, fear of rejection. It may well be she won’t come out and say how she feels in case you reject her.

Difficult. Completely understand you don’t want to play games and need her to show you in more certain terms. Sounds like a bit of a stale mate situation to me. Sorry I haven’t read your back story as new to this site, but from what you have written in this thread that is how it comes across to me.

[CanBuild91]

Thank you Rowdy, and welcome to the community. I think you're right - her insecurity and fear of rejection can't be overstated. In her mind, reaching out to say hi only to hear "sorry I have a girlfriend now" would be the end of the world. That said, I don't feel like I can make any more overtures. I made attempt after attempt to apologize and reconcile before I decided that I had to have some self respect and stop chasing, and let her come to me. I don't think her posting on social media, which she can't even be sure I'm seeing, is a good faith attempt at reconnecting. And my fear is that if I were to take these posts as a green light to contact her, my texts will probably still be blocked and/or she'll get satisfaction knowing that I'm still pining for her, and will continue living her life, knowing that she has me in her back pocket. It's a catch-22, but I just don't see how I can reach out any more. 

The other dynamic I find interesting is that she spent months/years after our breakup telling her friends that I was evil, abusive even, and that she did nothing wrong. I've taken account of my mistakes, but I don't know where she is at with accounting for hers. In any case, I find it curious that she is posting pretty explicit "I miss my ex" songs after pushing the narrative for the first year+ of our breakup that I was satan.   

[Rowdy]

Yes I read your posts about re writing history.
It is odd, it does seem like a coping mechanism.

Not not entirely sure I have been painted black, as a few of my friends have said my wife hasn’t said a bad word about me to them, but she did or has said things to me that have come across that way and I couldn’t understand why.
Mine is a different situation to yours though as my wife monkey branched, and I believe she hasn’t painted me black to people, and hasn’t told me the truth about what happened so she has a chance to recycle back if it goes pear shaped.

She would come out with odd things. When she left me she would text me often, asking what I was doing. One time I told her that I was cooking stir fry for me and our son and she replied with “oh that’s nice you are trying new things” Now, I had cooked her stir fry hundreds of times when we were together, and she also tried claiming I never cooked.

Another time she sent me a picture of a car we once had that drove past her when she had come round my house to take our dogs for a walk. We had sold the car 5 years earlier. I told her that funnily enough I had spoken to my friend that day about that car and a trip we did in it with the roof down and we had a spitfire circling above us doing loop the loops. She replied with a comment that seemed strange, like it was a snippet of our past that she suddenly remembered when I mentioned it that had been erased from her memory.

Her sister also told me recently she has a lot of conversations with her where my wife is convinced she has said things that she never has which is confusing (she also did with me a lot) so I’m not really sure of the reality that actually exists in a pwbpd brain.

[hiiumaa]

Hi Canbuild91,

I read a quite good article from a bpd-specialist once. He said: „In a bpd-relationship you can just be like the lighthouse for the lost ship in the dark, wild sea. Remember: A lighthouse has to stay on it‘s place. It is well known to the ship outside on the rough sea, that the lighthouse is there. The lighthouse will not walk into the water. It would drown and be destroyed. It can send it‘s light out in the darkness. But the ship has find it‘s way back itself.“

And he used the picture of the lost son in the bible: The son can go, the father will not stop him. And he will not chase him at all to come back. But when the son wants to come back, the father is there. But the son has to come to the father.“

I think, these are quite nice pictures for a bpd-relationship.

Your ex knows where she can find you. If she really wants to reconnect, she has to fight her fear of abandonment and try it.
The maximum I would do is,what Under the Bridge suggested. Not more.

But are sure, you want to try again?

[CanBuild91]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses Rowdy and Hiiumaa.

@hiiumaa, these metaphors are beautiful. I do want to follow this model of staying right where I am and letting her come to me, although when we had shorter breakups in the past, prior to this 3 year rupture, I always had to be the one to make overtures and bridge the gap. I’m just afraid that in her mind she’s sending me a bat signal and by not doing what I did in the past, which is reach out, I’m rejecting her. Then again, each of the past rekindlings ended badly so there’s an argument that she needs to develop other muscles if this will ever work - meaning she has to take more risks and also maybe take accountability for her role in us not working the last time. For my part, I feel like I would come back to the relationship a much different, more humble, and wiser person.

@Rowdy, our situations do seem different but I also recognize similarities, such as our exes completely forgetting (nice) things we did.

[Rowdy]

It’s a coping mechanism. To be fair we do the same, only we tend to forget some of the bad behaviour whereas they tend to forget the good things and focus on the bad (real or perceived) to justify their choices and decisions.

My wife could recall a certain way I looked at her decades ago because she had painted a picture in her own mind of what might have been going through mine, and use that as ammunition. They are paranoid of being left, of us being unfaithful and not loving them and believe it is going to happen which in a lot of cases leads them to behave how they think we are going to, so believing we are bad eases the conscience.

We on the other hand tend to focus on the good and forget the bad, because we know that we love them, that we don’t intend to abandon them and have no intention of being unfaithful. And we put up with the bad behaviour, the double standards and accusations, which to be honest makes us as disordered as they are in their thinking.

I’ve read some of your first posts on this forum. What does strike me is that you appear to blame yourself and have said that you betrayed her, so in some way deserved to be discarded. While I get that you probably felt guilty for silencing your phone, changing names of females you had been talking to, you have to realise that it is the unhealthy way in which pwbpd tend to react to their partner communicating with the opposite sex, even when there is no intention of doing anything with them, it is the pwbpd’s paranoia that leads to your covert behaviour to save your ex from her imagined emotional turmoil and the grief you would get for an innocent interaction with another human being.

I used to hate it when women phoned me up about work because I knew it would lead to grief, to nonsensical comments from my wife. I would try and actively avoid communicating with the opposite sex when my wife was present. I wouldn’t even look at a female if she was around because I knew it would just lead to problems that weren’t there.Yet it was perfectly fine for my wife to sit on the phone for hours talking to male friends, even go out for a drink with them to talk and support them when they had problems, yet if I were to do that all hell would have broken loose. It was fine for her to tell me she liked firemen whenever we saw a fire engine, yet when she commented she liked a car once and I replied jokingly yeh I like the driver (an attractive blonde driving a convertible) she brought that up for decades after. It was a joke, made when we had not long started seeing each other, when we were barely adults and after she had told me about her liking firemen. Yes, it was a bad joke, but it’s the way a pwbpd reacts to meaningless comments that lead us to feel guilty about things we have no intention of doing.

[CanBuild91]

Wow Rowdy, I relate to this so much. Being treated like a cheater from the get go, all of the accusations and assumptions that built resentment over time and contributed to me acting less than nobly. I was far from innocent in the relationship and would take back a lot, but also I was so hurt and worn down by the cycles of push/pull and accusations. And yes the double standards. Not only was she still texting with other guys but she was keeping me secret from her friends and even actively telling people she was single, while insisting on boyfriend treatment and throwing “if you really loved me you would…” in my face every chance she could. It was very hard, as you know from experience.

And yes very astute point about how we tend to remember the good, while they fixate on the bad, real or imagined.

Although, I do wonder if she’s starting to focus on the good, as indicated by her recent series of “I miss my ex” posts.

[CanBuild91]

My ex is so confusing. For several months she’s been posting things that seemed like inside jokes or references for me. Then she escalated to “I miss you” songs which have become increasingly vulnerable and straightforward, not veiled in any way. As I’ve written in this thread I’ve been torn between taking this as a green light to reach out, versus staying silent. After all the groveling and begging I did after the breakup, I’ve felt like I have to let her come to me. At the same time, I didn’t want her to feel rejected if she was genuinely trying to reconcile and this was all she had the courage to do. So I did something very minimal. I changed one picture on my dating profile to show that I’m still single, and changed my profile song to a band we had seen together, but that’s a pretty subtle message. I didn’t even choose an “I miss my ex” song like she’s been posting.

Well all of the sudden she’s started following “narcissism abuse recovery” accounts on Instagram, something she had done right after our breakup when she was in full vilification mode, but had since unfollowed all of those dumb accounts over two years ago. Why on earth would she start following them again? For months it’s seemed like the ice was thawing and her posts were becoming more clearly about missing me. What I did was hardly a reach out. I thought of it as being “the lighthouse” that hiiumaa so beautifully wrote about.

I’m so confused by her, and heartbroken to be honest. I thought we were moving towards finally being in touch again. What is she doing?

[CanBuild91]

My ex continues to confuse me. She’s posted a fifth post with an “I miss my ex” song, this one basically saying “can I see you again?” Aside from this blip of following a couple of new “narcissism abuse” accounts, it’s been five straight months of nostalgic “I miss you” songs. Last night I started worrying that in her mind, these songs are her attempt at reconnecting and by not making a move, I am rejecting her. The last thing in the world I want is for her to feel rejected. So I sent a very light text “hi. It’s been a long time and I wanted to see how you’re doing.” And I appear to still be blocked. Why on earth would she be posting months of songs about missing me, only to still have me blocked and unable to communicate with her?

[Under The Bridge]

Why on earth would she be posting months of songs about missing me, only to still have me blocked and unable to communicate with her?

She's definitely fishing to see if you're still out there - and by responding, you're playing her game and giving her what she wants, Once she knows you're still out there and, in her mind, 'available', she cuts off. Until the next time she wants to check on you.

She's making no direct 'can we talk?' contact and this is what you should be taking note of. She's had plenty of time to decide if she wants to get back with you but she's still playing games and posting things, knowing you're seeing them.

[Rowdy]

If you have a normal, healthy mind you will be confused. You will be trying to work out what is going on in your ex’s head, but given a pwBPD is driven by emotions not logic, they probably don’t understand what is going on in their own head half of the time, let alone someone else, especially someone that has been romantically involved with them, can fully understand either.

I’m just over two years out, from a 27 year relationship. We have two adult children. We have three dogs that stay with me but she comes round to take them out for a walk, usually when I am at work, so we are still in contact but I keep contact to bare minimum. She jumped straight into another relationship. Now, she has tried to make comparisons with him to me. For example, I used to manage my sons soccer team. I hate the sport, but I did it for him and his friends and fellow team members because no one else would do it. She tried saying he did the same thing for his son. I know he didn’t, anyone familiar with soccer will be familiar with running the line and that is the extent of his ‘running a soccer team’ basically flagging for offside. Every parent does this at some point, and it is nothing like organising a football team, training them, marking the pitch, putting up goals and everything else that goes with it, but she tried to make out he is like me. I have berated him for going on a public Facebook page moaning about someone parking their car on the road near his house, and when people disagreed with him, he just started calling people c***s, because he has no intelligence. She said I do the same thing, because I once got in a bit of an argument with someone on a forum that had been derogatory about people with Autism. I used my intelligence to make them look stupid, without name calling, which lead to them being banned from the forum, because their level of intelligence was similar to her boyfriends. Now logic tells me she is trying to make a comparison to justify her poor life choice because those comparisons don’t stack up…. but her emotions……

For the first year, she would message me every morning, without fail. That is until she moved in with her boyfriend, but even though she would trigger me, since moving in with him, would lead to me telling her some home truths would then lead to her blocking me, she would then unblock me within days, if not within hours. Logic would tell me she’s not invested in her boyfriend if she was still messaging me first thing every morning. I was still sleeping with her for that first year behind her boyfriends back, so again logic ……….

She would tell me to move on, and hope I find the perfect woman I was looking for, and try saying I left her (because she basically made it that I had to move out) and I am now with another woman, but after a couple of arguments she has phoned our eldest son and been in tears to him about my girlfriend, and she has been rude about her in messages to me even though she has never met her, so again logic says she isn’t the one that has really moved on.

She messaged me a few weeks ago apologising for not taking the dogs out that morning, which is something she has never apologised for in the past……. Why she did that, I could come to a logical conclusion but whether it makes sense in her reality who knows!

She messaged me last week, it was the 9 year anniversary of my dads death, to say that she was thinking of me ……… bearing in mind the first year we had split up she had basically used my dads birthday to invite me over for dinner, ply me with alcohol so I couldn’t drive home and end up staying the night and sleeping with her, so again logic could tell me one thing yet her reality?

The thing is a pwBPD can not be on their own. They are not emotionally stable and grounded enough to be on their own, and any relationship they have a fear of abandonment, and personally I think they always need a backup plan. A safety net, a comfort blanket. If things go pear shaped they need to know there is someone there to catch them when they fall. They know that we have been there for them in the past, that we have been their rock, or their lighthouse leading them to safety. So while our logic tells us that their actions show that we are still living in their heads, their emotions are constantly fighting that logic.

I’ve given up trying to work out why she has done, and does the things she does. I’ve come to the conclusion that they are probably arguing with themselves just as much as they do anyone else so it’s pointless trying to figure out someone that can’t even figure themselves out.