Feeling very conflicted

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This is my first post on conflicted and deciding and it’s hard for me to move here from improving.  Over the past 4 ½ years, I have tried and wanted to improve my relationship with my pwBPD.   I have stopped taking the verbal abuse – learned more about validating.  I bite my tongue as much as I can when his head is in a bad place.  If I feel like I can’t bite my tongue, I make sure to leave the situation.  With all the positive changes that I have made, there is still a constant struggle in my head as to what I really want for myself.  I feel conflicted.  As much as I have worked to make our relationship as stable as possible, he spends his time creating drama and ending things with me. 

 Life with my pwBPD was relatively calm and enjoyable for the past three weeks.  We were able to accomplish quite a bit of work – we had nice, relaxing evenings at his house.  There were times when we even were able to discuss his BPD and it felt like he wanted to help me understand what goes on in his head.  We were watching tv – he spontaneously hugged me and I said something like, oh I like when you do that.  He stepped back and said what he hears in his head is that he doesn’t do enough nice things for me since I have to point it out when he does.  When his head is clear, I try to enjoy our time but it is always in the back of my head that it will end at any moment.   Anything is a trigger for him – I never know what awaits me. 

Over the weekend, within a matter of an hour, he went from completely loving me to be so angry with me for not understanding him.  He said if I truly loved him, he wouldn’t feel the way he feels.  That he feels empty and alone – that I have taken his freedom from him – he feels anxious and unhappy when he sees me.  Yet if I stay away from him that proves to him that I don’t love him or care about him.  He constantly tells me that I have to validate his feelings even if I don’t agree.  I have been telling him that I have my own feelings which are just as valid as his.  To him, that proves that I don’t understand him and that our relationship is over. 

For the past three days, he is pushing me to “move on” - to tell him that I am sick of his mental issues and that I can’t deal with them.  I guess I am questioning myself about that.  It’s not that I can’t deal with them, but do I want to deal with them.  Our business is doing well but it’s always in the back of my mind that he is unstable.  I do most of the work and management of it – he can’t handle it and then resents me for taking it away from him.  His answer to all these issues is that he needs a fresh start – he is trapped with me and with the business. He wants to sell his house and move away.  He wants to go back to his exwife who now seems to be the only one he thinks understands him.    He basically stopped going to therapy since he feels he isn’t being helped at all.   I am really concerned about that – even though I don’t think he was completely truthful with his therapist, it was a way to keep him somewhat accountable.  He has only gone 3 or 4 times in the past 4 months.  I suggested he try to find a new therapist but he says he will never do that. 

 I want to stay with him both personally and professionally but if he doesn’t want that, I can't make him feel differently.  When I try to think of ways to untangle our lives, my head gets stuck.  It feels too overwhelming for me.  Our kids are close to us – they really haven’t experienced much of his drama – he stays away from them when he is in a bad way.  I love his kids and I know he loves mine.  If I pull back from our personal relationship, I still have to see him at work and it just makes me sad.  I don’t where to go right now -  I feel anxious and overwhelmed.  I know how trapped he feels because I feel like that too sometimes.  I just don't want him to "end" things every single time his head goes into a bad place.  I know I can't control that - I can only control how I feel about it.  It just doesn't feel good to be blamed for all the negative feelings he has. 

[coworkerfriend]

This is my first post on conflicted and deciding and it’s hard for me to move here from improving.  Over the past 4 ½ years, I have tried and wanted to improve my relationship with my pwBPD.   I have stopped taking the verbal abuse – learned more about validating.  I bite my tongue as much as I can when his head is in a bad place.  If I feel like I can’t bite my tongue, I make sure to leave the situation.  With all the positive changes that I have made, there is still a constant struggle in my head as to what I really want for myself.  I feel conflicted.  As much as I have worked to make our relationship as stable as possible, he spends his time creating drama and ending things with me. 

 Life with my pwBPD was relatively calm and enjoyable for the past three weeks.  We were able to accomplish quite a bit of work – we had nice, relaxing evenings at his house.  There were times when we even were able to discuss his BPD and it felt like he wanted to help me understand what goes on in his head.  We were watching tv – he spontaneously hugged me and I said something like, oh I like when you do that.  He stepped back and said what he hears in his head is that he doesn’t do enough nice things for me since I have to point it out when he does.  When his head is clear, I try to enjoy our time but it is always in the back of my head that it will end at any moment.   Anything is a trigger for him – I never know what awaits me. 

Over the weekend, within a matter of an hour, he went from completely loving me to be so angry with me for not understanding him.  He said if I truly loved him, he wouldn’t feel the way he feels.  That he feels empty and alone – that I have taken his freedom from him – he feels anxious and unhappy when he sees me.  Yet if I stay away from him that proves to him that I don’t love him or care about him.  He constantly tells me that I have to validate his feelings even if I don’t agree.  I have been telling him that I have my own feelings which are just as valid as his.  To him, that proves that I don’t understand him and that our relationship is over. 

For the past three days, he is pushing me to “move on” - to tell him that I am sick of his mental issues and that I can’t deal with them.  I guess I am questioning myself about that.  It’s not that I can’t deal with them, but do I want to deal with them.  Our business is doing well but it’s always in the back of my mind that he is unstable.  I do most of the work and management of it – he can’t handle it and then resents me for taking it away from him.  His answer to all these issues is that he needs a fresh start – he is trapped with me and with the business. He wants to sell his house and move away.  He wants to go back to his exwife who now seems to be the only one he thinks understands him.    He basically stopped going to therapy since he feels he isn’t being helped at all.   I am really concerned about that – even though I don’t think he was completely truthful with his therapist, it was a way to keep him somewhat accountable.  He has only gone 3 or 4 times in the past 4 months.  I suggested he try to find a new therapist but he says he will never do that. 

 I want to stay with him both personally and professionally but if he doesn’t want that, I can't make him feel differently.  When I try to think of ways to untangle our lives, my head gets stuck.  It feels too overwhelming for me.  Our kids are close to us – they really haven’t experienced much of his drama – he stays away from them when he is in a bad way.  I love his kids and I know he loves mine.  If I pull back from our personal relationship, I still have to see him at work and it just makes me sad.  I don’t where to go right now -  I feel anxious and overwhelmed.  I know how trapped he feels because I feel like that too sometimes.  I just don't want him to "end" things every single time his head goes into a bad place.  I know I can't control that - I can only control how I feel about it.  It just doesn't feel good to be blamed for all the negative feelings he has. 

[Grey Kitty]

This jumped out at me... .

He said if I truly loved him, he wouldn’t feel the way he feels.

I think he believes this. Do you?

To him, that proves that I don’t understand him and that our relationship is over.

This, on the other hand... .he may believe it, but I cannot imagine him acting on it. If you give him the option, he will keep alternating between pulling you in and pushing you away.

[formflier]

Welcome to the conflicted board.




 I made a move over here a while back.  It was a bit of an adjustment, but after a few weeks I felt much more comfortable.

I've thought about moving back to improving a time or two, but "conflicted" much more accurately describes my mindset.  I used to think I would do anything to improve my r/s, now I believe I have a more restrained view and I'm much clearer about my limits.

I can only control how I feel about it.  It just doesn't feel good to be blamed for all the negative feelings he has. 

I'm looking forward to getting to know you and your story better.  

My first reaction is that you control what you DO about it and you should NOT try to control your feelings.  They are valid... .no matter what they are... .spend time with them rather than try to control them.

My first challenge is for YOU to take action to feel better by not participating in blame.  By now it is likely you have realized the chances of convincing him to restrain his blame are low.  I hope you have a clear view that taking your ears somewhere else in order to protect your feelings is a winner for you.

How does all of this sound?  What would some of this look like as you put it into practice?

Is this what you expected you would find on the conflicted boards?

FF

[flourdust]

I think one of the best lessons to review when beginning to look at making a decision is Radical Acceptance.

Can you identify and accept what your situation is now -- as a whole, not just the span of three weeks of good times or a month of conflict or whatever the cycle has looked like. The entire situation -- good, bad, predictable, chaotic, everything.

Can you identify and accept how your situation affects you and makes you feel -- not how you wish you felt or how you think you should feel or how he feels. Focus on that.

Next ... .what are the decisions in front of you? Again, we're going to be looking strictly at reality, the things you can control, and the things you can reasonably expect based only on the changes you make.

What do your realistic options look like?

[formflier]

I would also try to clearly identify the "conflict" within YOU. 

For instance... .in me... .my conflict is around my reasons for staying.

If it was just about me (no kids) I would have hit the door a long time ago.  I've got 8 kids.  I've seen how kids do in divorce in her FOO and it's not pretty... .arrests, suicide attempts, substance abuse... .serious stuff.

I believe I have much more influence "inside" the family home that is dysfunctional that "outside" the family home on an "island of function".

There is a weird thing that my wife has been doing where she is totally disrespectful of me yet "obeys" me as the Biblical head of household.  Really twisted stuff... .but for my purposes of keeping my kids as healthy as possible... .I've used the obedience thing several times for situations I likely would not have found out about (due to cover up) had there been two households.

Yeah... I'd say that qualifies as putting "conflict" in my heart about if I'm doing the right thing.

Anyway... .looking forward to hearing more.

FF

[coworkerfriend]

Thank you so much for your responses - I truly appreciate it.

GK - I used to believe that if I just loved him enough, it could be better - more stable.  I used to think it would help him feel secure and that we could build on that.  I gave that belief up.   I love him.  But love has nothing to do with his feelings.  I know you are right. If I allow it, he will push and pull me forever.  That has become very clear to me.  It is clear that he will threaten to end it and to go back to his exwife and  that when his head clears, he will be apologetic, he will thank me for understanding and standing by him.  He will tell me how much he loves me and how much I mean to him.  He will talk about a future - he will promise to get motivated and focus on work.  It never lasts. 

FF - thank you so much for welcoming me.  I have been on the boards since September of 2012.  I was literally at my wits end - feeling like i was going to have a nervous breakdown and found the site.  Reading about BPD and reading the stories was like reading pages from my life.  I was married for 20 years to a man who didn't really care if I was around or not.  I met my pwBPD during the end of my marriage.  He was charming, smart and so understanding.  He was going through a divorce, we had kids the same age and we worked in the same profession.  I was unhappy at my job and after time, we decided to open a business.  I left my stable job and started working with him.  We are 50/50 partners on paper but I do 85% of the work. Before I knew about BPD, I agreed to buy an office building with him and we are 50/50 on the mortgage.  Over the years, our business has grown.  We do good work.  But the instability of his condition has made it difficult to make some important business decisions.  He can't be relied upon to complete a project.  It always depends on his mental state.   He was very verbally abusive for many years.  I don't know why I just took it - but I began to seclude myself more and more from friends and family.  I couldn't bear to have anyone ask "how are you" - I knew I was falling apart inside and I couldn't face it.  Over the years, I have learned to remove myself from situations - I have developed some boundaries.  I have stopped feeding into the emotional manipulation.  I spent a long time blaming myself - my actions and reactions - that I made things worse.  He always said I make things worse.  In addition to working together, we have been personally involved as well.  We live in separate houses but when things are good, we spend a lot of time at his house. 

The years have passed by quickly - it feels like I am always just trying to survive.  To keep the business going - to take care of the kids and the houses.  He had a massive dysregualtion at the beginning of the year that he keeps reliving.  January through March was awful.  I have been trying to focus more on myself.  You are right - I need to feel my feelings and try to figure out how I want to live.  I think I need to be on this board - I let the fears I have control me.  I need questions and insights to help me navigate how I feel.   I have spent too many years taking the words he has said to me personally.  I let too much in and I feel broken.

Flourdust - thank you for posting the radical acceptance lesson.  I need to read it.   My situation is complicated.  We own a business together and we are personally involved.  I need to focus on how I feel.  I need to be realistic about my options.  I try to do that and I get overwhelmed.  If I think about ending it personally, I don't know how I will transition our relationship to strictly business.  I do not want to end the business - I truly love what I do and I am proud of what we built.  But i can't keep up the pace of working 7 days a week forever.  If he isn't involved in the business, I know we could not be involved personally.   He would never forgive me for ending it.  I need to figure out my realistic options.

FF - I have been completely committed to staying with him but I think the conflict has arisen inside me because no matter how I try to stay, he is constantly ending it.  I want to be appreciated.  I want to be with someone who wants to be with me.  I don't want my employees to lose their jobs - I don't want to end the business.  But in my heart, I know he has removed himself so much and just doesn't care. At one point after we bought the building, he said to me he knew being with me would be a good thing for him which is why he pushed so hard for us to buy a building.  To be sure we stayed together.  Recently, one night, I couldn't sleep and I remembered it.  I think that was part of the beginning of feeling conflicted.  When his head gets in a bad place, he can't remember anything good.  He just feels that moment.  It is hard for my feelings to turn on and off like that.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm glad you understand that your love can only support him, it cannot fix him. (I'm sure you still feel bad about this/want it to/etc. anyways)

You've been kinda conflicted and stuck for a while, even when you were posting on Improving instead of here... .I've got a quick question... .if you can answer it without deliberating a lot, that might help:

Which is working better with him today? Your work relationship, or your personal relationship?

[coworkerfriend]

GK you are right - I have been stuck and conflicted for a while.  I don't even know if my love can support him anymore. 

Today - neither is working.  He didn't show up to work and according to him, I make him unhappy and anxious and he can't be around me. At one point in our conversation this am, he said I could come check on him and within 5 minutes, he wanted me to stay away.

Part of me really doesn't mind if he doesn't come in when his head is in a bad place.  If he comes when he is dysregulated, he is distracting and spends a lot of time trying to get my attention.  He blames me for his unhappiness and anxiety.  He resents that I can work while he is suffering. But I have to work - things have to get done.  My mood and attitude infects the office.  I work very hard to create as positive an atmosphere I can. 

[formflier]

How formalized is the business agreement?  What is on paper?

I'm am in the midst of extracting myself from business arrangements with BPDish wife and her FOO.  This is one rental house (used to be more), so not nearly as involved as a day to day operational business with employees and customers (which it sounds like you have).

Tough spot to be in.

Sounds like it is better for you that he stays away from business when he is in a funk.

True?

FF

[coworkerfriend]

FF - not much is formalized on paper.  Of course, I am kicking myself that I didn't really spell anything out. Although based on knowing what I know about his illness, paperwork wouldn't change how difficult it would be to change things. 

It is quieter and less distracting when he stays away when he is in a funk.  I used to worry all day when he wasn't here - knowing that he is feeling bad and that there is nothing I can do to help. 

I usually check in with him when he stays home - I didn't check in at all yesterday.  Last night, I felt guilty and bad that I didn't and those feelings are stronger this am.

[Grey Kitty]

I usually check in with him when he stays home - I didn't check in at all yesterday.  Last night, I felt guilty and bad that I didn't and those feelings are stronger this am.

Yeah, those feelings of guilt are real, and they are powerful. Stay strong. Letting him deal with his own feelings really is the right thing to do, and removing yourself from his presences when he blames you for his feelings is also the right thing to do.

NOTE: You don't have to convince him that you are right and he is wrong about blaming his feelings on you... .all you have to do is convince him that you don't believe it and won't put up with the crap associated with it. Let him be sure that you are wrong, that you are intentionally hurting him. You know your truth. You just have to live it, you don't have to convince him.

Today - neither is working.

There is one big pragmatic difference between your work relationship and your personal/romantic relationship:

You have many practical and possibly legal ties that keep you together at work. You share ownership of the business. You share ownership of the building. Those will be challenging to unwind. Most likely neither of you could afford to buy the other out directly even if you could agree to it.

Further, if he doesn't leave willingly, you aren't in a good position to force him to... .and you say clearly that you don't want to leave the business yourself.

Contrast that to your personal relationship: No legal ties--you aren't married. No shared property--you and he own separate houses. I'm assuming you don't have joint bank accounts or joint credit that isn't associated with the business.

In other words, the only thing stopping you from ending the personal side of the relationship is you, but the business side would be a lot more complicated. (Unless I got something wrong)

[coworkerfriend]

GK - You didn't get anything wrong - you are absolutely right in both scenarios.

We don't have the funds to buy each other out.  I don't think he wants to leave and it would be awful to try and force him out. I can't imagine how it would disrupt the business.  I don't want to lose what I have worked so hard to build.

I am absolutely stopping myself from ending our personal relationship.  Logically, it seems like it would be easy - just stop seeing him outside of work.  Emotionally, I don't think I am at the point of ending it. He pushes me to do it - to move on - let him go or whatever he feels at the moment.  I also try to imagine if I could be detached enough to end our personal relationship and continue to work with him.  Its really hard for me to see that working out.  I don't know why I am holding on so tight to the relationship. 

[formflier]

It sounds like the business is something that can be "all consuming".  Please share as much as is comfortable.

Hopefully I have that right.

It seems you enjoy the business.  

I'm wondering if you can be deliberate about focusing on the business for certain times and essentially ignoring the personal side.

2 benefits.

It will let him sort himself out without interference.

It will give you focus on something that is likely to give you positive returns and that you will feel good about.

Now... .those are very broad outlines.  Hopefully you can fill those in or change it to fit the nuance that I don't understand.

This is about getting you "filled up" with satisfaction and "gaining some distance" to things that appear to be draining.

I think you will make much wiser decisions when "fuller" of satisfaction and "distance" from "problems."

Note:  I could easily see you deciding to stick with the personal r/s, but with a stronger sense of boundaries or I could see you deciding that a focus on work "works" for you and perhaps make other decisions with personal.

Last:  Since there will be some sort of continuing r/s for a while... .stay away from black and white personal decisions.  :)eciding to keep a personal connection (r/s), but one with much greater distance is an ok choice.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Conclusion #1: Any changes in how you work with him in the business will require planning, possibly consulting with a lawyer, and some negotiation with him.

File it away as something to think about... .and acknowledge that even if you decide what you want to do, it will be a longer-term plan.

One thing to consider there is reducing his role in day-to-day operations of the business and how much he is needed at work. If you want to do this, I'd suggest doing it gradually and subversively, by trying to find successively better ways you and the rest of the employees can cover the gaps when he refuses to show up and do work.

I am absolutely stopping myself from ending our personal relationship.  Logically, it seems like it would be easy - just stop seeing him outside of work.  Emotionally, I don't think I am at the point of ending it. He pushes me to do it - to move on - let him go or whatever he feels at the moment.

NO, that isn't what he's doing. He's NOT trying to get you to move on.

He's saying things like "I'm worthless, you should move on and find somebody better" as a very unhealthy way to manage his feelings, manipulate you, or both.

If he wanted to end the relationship, he would end it. Instead, he's conflicted (like you are), changes his mind, and the push-pull aspect of it is 'normal' for him or 'works' for him, at least as well as anything works for him in a relationship.

Please don't take statements like that at face value.


Ending a r/s isn't a logical thing, so how easy it is 'logically' doesn't matter. It is easy from a legal/logistical point of view; we both agree about that.

It is an emotional choice. You have to make it with your heart. And NOTHING about that is easy, or will ever be easy.   

One thing which does help is to know that you've done all you can to make the r/s work before you give up on it. Do you think there is more you could try / do better with him?

[Lalathegreat]

Hi! I have been following your story for awhile on improving and feel that our partners are very similar. I find that they say near identical things and behave in similar ways.

I totally understand your conflict because it is so similar to mine. There is no logistical reason to make leaving challenging. It is the emotional ties that keep me bound in the situation.

I relate to the "being left" over and over. I can't even count at this point how many times he has told me to get out or given me the "I'm garbage you need to leave me" line. One thing I'm learning - when he tells me to get out it is in response to his rage, but when I try to leave he responds with frantic attempts to make me stay. When he says "I'm garbage you should leave", I think he is actually seeking reassurance. I used to wonder if he was trying to get me to do the dirty work, but over time I've come to see it differently. He wants me to reassure him that I don't see him as garbage and that I plan to stay. I'm still trying to figure out how to answer that in a healthy way.

I wish that I had some piece of advice that would magically change everything, but unfortunately I think the most we can hope for is controlling our own responses in such a way as to minimize the damage to ourselves. Easier said than done.

Sending a huge hug... .

[Grey Kitty]

When he says "I'm garbage you should leave", I think he is actually seeking reassurance. I used to wonder if he was trying to get me to do the dirty work, but over time I've come to see it differently. He wants me to reassure him that I don't see him as garbage and that I plan to stay. I'm still trying to figure out how to answer that in a healthy way.

I think you are correct in what he's doing.

A healthy answer is tricker, because if you try to reassure him that he isn't garbage, while he (at the time; remember black and white thinking applies to himself) believes it, you are invalidating him. You probably know that often doesn't go well either... .

One healthy thing you can do is remind him that your choice to stay or leave is YOURS, not his. He may feel worthless, but that is his feeling and his belief, not yours. You make your own choice. And you choose to stay with him.

At its core, this is validating to him--you are validating that his feelings of worthlessness are real. It is also a lesson in good boundaries. Your feelings are yours, and they differ.

[coworkerfriend]

I think I have to stop thinking I need to resolve both our business and personal relationship issues all at once.   I get myself so tangled up thinking I need to decide everything at once.  I have always been a take charge person and I like to fix things.  Not being able to fix anything is really hard.

I have removed him from quite a few things at work over the years.  That has been a double sided problem - I am working 7 days a week to pick up the slack and he feels isolated and separated from work which increases his anxiety about the stability of the business.  Over the years, I had no choice but to pick up the slack to be sure that the projects get completed.   I try not to let any resentment creep in and I always offer to let him be more involved anytime he wants.  I can't work any more hours - it is wearing me down.  I have been wanting to hire staff to help but that is tricky since I never really know what kind of mood he will be in and how a new person will react to that. 

I often wonder if I validated his feelings too much.  Or have I been validating the invalid.  He has been saying that his feelings are real and I can't change them.  I tell him I am not trying to change them but I do feel differently. He said multiple times yesterday that he doesn't want to be in a relationship with me and I said I understand and that's ok.  He got mad and said he knows the way I operate - I agree with him until he feels differently.  I just wait it out and he said that we are past the point of that and too much damage has been done.  Two hours later he asked me to have dinner with him and before I could even answer, he found a reason to get angry with me and stormed out saying he doesn't want to see me this weekend. 

He called this morning so miserable and angry that I don't know if we even talked for a minute.  He said he is spending the day in bed - he hates his life and he wants me to leave him alone. 

[formflier]

What would the business and employees look like if you created a "structure" so that he is NOT needed, but... whenever he comes around he can "add value".

Perhaps there are ideas that have been sitting in the "parking lot" that he can work on... .or perhaps he can review current projects and put his thoughts about them on paper for your review and action.

He's not going to change... .you know the skills he has... .and what he lacks.  Plan around that...

How many FTEs need to get hired so you can get back to 5 days a week.

Not only is 7 days a week going to burn you out but how much time do you have to "think strategically" about the business... .to look 1 year down the road... .5 years... .1 month even?

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I am working 7 days a week to pick up the slack [... .] I can't work any more hours - it is wearing me down.  I have been wanting to hire staff to help but that is tricky since I never really know what kind of mood he will be in and how a new person will react to that. 

You can't work more. You can ask other employees to pick up some of the things he drops, besides yourself. It may require developing the employees further, which is a long-term project, not a short-term fix.

Can the business (as it is, with him as dysfunctional as he is!) support another employee? If not, live without. If it can, hire one.

Bluntly, you've already signed on to the job of doing what you can to protect the existing employees from his rage and dysfunction. How does one more employee change that significantly?

and he feels isolated and separated from work which increases his anxiety about the stability of the business.

His feelings. His to deal with. Let him deal with them as badly has he is going to, and stop trying to save him from his own feelings which are a direct result of his own irresponsible actions.

I often wonder if I validated his feelings too much.

I don't think you can validate too much. That said, you may not be validating in ways that are effective, ways that he's being receptive.

Or have I been validating the invalid.

That's a likely possibility.

He has been saying that his feelings are real and I can't change them.  I tell him I am not trying to change them but I do feel differently. He said multiple times yesterday that he doesn't want to be in a relationship with me and I said I understand and that's ok.  He got mad and said he knows the way I operate - I agree with him until he feels differently.

That's a really challenging one to find a good way to validate. And rather than challenging you on how to better validate it, I'm going to challenge you to think about how you really feel here--not so you can share it with him, not so you can validate him, but for your own peace of mind.

He rejects you completely and utterly, both telling you he doesn't love you, and giving you the silent treatment. He does this repeatedly and pretty regularly. That he spins 180 degrees doesn't change that he does it, or that it has an impact on you.

What is it really doing to your feelings about him?

[coworkerfriend]

FF - I have been working on restructuring his role at work - trying to get him to focus on specialized projects.  He is extremely smart and he is better to working alone on projects.  I know I have to improve the staffing here.  I am getting burnt out.  I find myself feeling very guilty if I am not working and its on my mind quite a bit.  I have delegated some to my employees but not enough.  I don't have time to truly focus on running the business.

GK - the constant rejection has been making me feel bad about myself.  It has been having an impact on me.  I don't detach myself from his words.   Last night, we were watching tv.  I could tell he was getting increasingly agitated.  I started to get ready to leave and he was surprised.  He said that he didn't say anything to me.  I said I know but I thought it would be best for me to go home.  I knew I couldn't sit there and wait for whatever triggered him to hit.  I could tell it was coming or maybe it wasn't - maybe it would have passed.  He said the fact that I can run away from dealing with our relationship makes him feel unsettled.  He said that he was feeling agitated and if I was going to take it personally, i should just leave.  He said I should know better than to take it personally.  That his internal drama doesn't have anything to do with me.  I said I understand that but it would be best for me to go. 

We talked this morning.  He called when I was on my way to work.  He said he is going to spend the day with his ex.  He said she is feeling down and alone which makes him feel guilty that she has no one but him.  In the next breath, he asked if I wanted to have dinner with him and possibly stay over.  I said that we should see how he feels after spending the day with her and wouldn't she be making dinner for him?  He said he didn't want to go there but he felt obligated and that I need to understand that.  The conversation sort of ended there.  He has never told her that he has been in a relationship with me.  She thinks he is alone and as lonely as she is.  The whole thing is messed up.

How do I feel about him?  In all honesty, I don't ask myself that question.  I feel confused. I love him.  I don't always feel loved by him. When he makes the 180 and loves me, it is intense.   He expects me to trust him with my feelings and my life.  I feel insecure and unsettled. Why is that question so hard for me answer? I guess I don't know how to face the truth.

[Grey Kitty]

I don't detach myself from his words.    

Nope, you can't. You think you are strong enough that they don't impact you, but they do. Dripping water will erode through stone eventually. Your heart is much softer than stone.

Try not to think that there is something wrong with you that you cannot detach in such a way that you aren't hurt/impacted... .the problem there isn't you!

Last night, we were watching tv.  I could tell he was getting increasingly agitated. I started to get ready to leave and he was surprised.  He said that he didn't say anything to me.  I said I know but I thought it would be best for me to go home.  I knew I couldn't sit there and wait for whatever triggered him to hit.  I could tell it was coming or maybe it wasn't - maybe it would have passed.  He said the fact that I can run away from dealing with our relationship makes him feel unsettled.  He said that he was feeling agitated and if I was going to take it personally, i should just leave.  He said I should know better than to take it personally.  That his internal drama doesn't have anything to do with me.  I said I understand that but it would be best for me to go.

Read the bolded things in that quote. Your knowledge, your intuition, and your feelings were telling you that it wasn't going to be anything you wanted to be around.

Then read his part in this--He pretty much invalidated every thought and feeling you had, and did everything he could to talk you out of your own feelings. To keep you from leaving. Not for your benefit, but for his benefit.

One suggestion for you to help you get out cleanly: Make it about YOU, not about HIM when you go. Both in your own mind and in your words with him. Don't leave because "he's getting agitated" or "he's going to get triggered". (Even though you believe it is true!) Leave because "You want to be alone."

While it is not the only truth about why it was time for you to leave, I think that sort of statement is true--at that point, you could pretty safely say that the evening was going to be either one where you were on edge, waiting for him to dysregulate, which isn't pleasant... .or he was going to fully dysregulate and treat you horribly, which is far worse. So you could honestly say that once he starts to get agitated/on edge, you will enjoy an evening away from him more than anything you would have with him, and it really is what you want that evening.

How do I feel about him?  In all honesty, I don't ask myself that question.  I feel confused. I love him.  I don't always feel loved by him. When he makes the 180 and loves me, it is intense.   He expects me to trust him with my feelings and my life.  I feel insecure and unsettled.

Of course you feel insecure and unsettled. He 'expects' you to trust him, despite acting in ways that prove him to be untrustworthy.

[formflier]

  Make it about YOU, not about HIM when you go. Both in your own mind and in your words with him. 

In general I think you handled this well.  Making it about you would be better.

Making it about your and being lighthearted when he "accuses" you of running is even better.  That way it leaves all the negative feelings... .right where they belong. (him).

Perhaps even a better step... .stay lighthearted and assure him you want to "deal with" the relationship.  Ask him for a couple days later in the week that work for him.

"Oh babe... I'm going to head home... .I'm tired and frazzled from that project at work(or some other thing... not him)"

blather blather "you are running from r/s"

perhaps pat his knee... "Oh goodness... .not running in the least.  I can talk about r/s stuff on Wed or Thur, which works best for you... ?"

keep moving towards door.

blather blather (doesn't answer)

"Have a good night, let me know via text which of those dates works best for you"

click (door shuts and you are gone).  Ignore text bombs... .if he accepts a date, acknowledge that.

FF

[coworkerfriend]

Thank you so much - both posts are so insightful.  I lost focus on myself so long ago - it just doesn't even occur to me to make it about me.  i am constantly trying to make him feel better - to smooth things over -wait for the storms to pass.  I don't want him to keep blaming me for all the negative things going on in his head.  Things are actually pretty good - business is good - our kids are healthy - we are healthy.  We could go places - do things together.  I don't suggest much because he tells me I am pushing him and then is bored that we never go anywhere or do anything.  He mentioned quite a few times how bored he is with his life. 

Last night would have been a perfect opportunity to use FF suggestion.  I went over for dinner - he was down and quiet.  He said he wanted the company but just felt down.  We started to watch tv and I fell sound asleep.   Around 1am, he woke me and was furious that his computer crashed and wanted to know a password.  I was groggy and confused - it took me a few minutes to realize that I had been sleeping. He was making a lot of noise - really angry.  He told me a few times to go back to sleep.  I was wide awake at that point.  He kept telling to go back to sleep and he was going to stay up on the couch for the night.  I didn't want him to sleep on the couch.   I said that I was going home - I had to be up in a few hours anyway and I didn't want my alarm to disturb him.  He got really mad at that point that I always run away.  I said I am not running - we are both tired and its best for me to go. 

Now I see that I should have just made it about me.  I was trying to make him feel better that it was best for both of us.  I knew there was no way I could sleep with the tension in the air.   

He didn't show up for work.  I didn't call to check on him.  I thought about it a few times. Actually  I thought about it quite a bit but I couldn't bring myself to make the call.  I didn't want to hear the anger in his voice.   I am getting worn down with the constant chaos and negativity.  I have always been such a positive happy person in the past.  I want to be happy again.

[formflier]

  I didn't want him to sleep on the couch.   

Sleep issues seem to go with the BPDish stuff.  Weird sleep hours and habits.

I used to invest quite a bit of energy trying to get my wife to conform.  Lots of drama.  Now... .I invest the energy in making sure my kids have a reasonable schedule and that she (by and large) leaves them alone when her sleep goes whacko.

Much better results by putting my energy into the kids and letting her do her thing.  Even when there is direct conflict, it's easier to make a kid go to sleep at bedtime... .than to make an adult go... that doesn't want to go.

2nd issue I've noticed.

BPD and computers.  My wife is always blaming the computer for doing weird things.  When she has asked for instruction she doesn't want any part of "understanding" how she "made" the computer do anything.  Really funny in a way...   She wants a mind reading computer.  Ignore what I'm actually telling you to do and do what I want you to do.

I either jump in for a total rescue (only at her request) or I totally ignore the computer drama.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I lost focus on myself so long ago - it just doesn't even occur to me to make it about me.  i am constantly trying to make him feel better - to smooth things over -wait for the storms to pass.  I don't want him to keep blaming me for all the negative things going on in his head.

There's a funny thing that happens when you do things for yourself and make it about yourself... .it actually works better with him.

If you are "doing it for his benefit", you have to read his mind to do that right. And if he changes his mind, he's made it wrong again. It is an impossible target, and you will be blamed. Pretty much guaranteed.

If you just said "I want to spend the rest of the night in my own bed" or "I'm going to spend the rest of the night in my own bed", there's not much for him to second guess or argue about. in that.

I mean yeah, he can tell you that you are doing it to hurt him, but you should be out the door before he gets to the second sentence about it 

Contrast that to getting into a discussion with him about when he will come to bed, whether he will sleep on the couch, how much longer he will yell at the computer, etc. That might influence your choice to sleep at home, but he can and will make promises, or demands about it.