Is covert Narcissism linked to BPD?

[Moselle]

As I detach from my ex, I read an article by Ross Rosenberg on covert narcissists and how to Observe them but don't Absorb it.

His point is dont fight because, if you play with pigs, you're going to get dirty.

My ex is definitely a covert narcissist.

Is there a link between that and BPD? they seem to be really close in some respects.

Both have no boundaries, and both are blamers,

[FSTL]

My BPD ex has a lot of narcissistic tendencies - including a sense of entitlement, lack of empathy and inflated sense of her own physical appeal to others. But she also feels shame and guilt and very low self esteem, which a true narcissist would not.

People on here talk about their exes having NPD and BPD, but I really doubt they have both (rather, they may have traits of both).

[apollotech]

Just thinking out loud here. Is it narcissism or a component of the BPD? Because of the emotional immaturity associated with BPD, is it perhaps no different than dealing with a child who needs constant attention, support, validation, etc.? My ex required those things, but as a prior poster has stated, it was more of a requirement for her to have/maintain self-worth rather than the bloated ego of one with an "I am superior" complex. In fact, she saw herself as being inferior to others in many ways, the opposite of narcissism as I understand it. Also, she could become very cold and distant when being complimented/loved/sought after the most (I attribute this to BPD Engulfment.), again, very much the opposite of narcissism as I understand it. I think in my particular case it wasn't abnormal narcissism (more narcissistic than any other person is) but rather the needs of a pwBPD for validation and self-worth. And those needs were great, which could easily be mistaken as narcissism.

[In a bad way]

          In fact, she saw herself as being inferior to others in many ways, the opposite of narcissism as I understand it. Also, she could become very cold and distant when being complimented/loved/sought after the most (I attribute this to BPD Engulfment.), again, very much the opposite of narcissism as I understand it                 

This is how mine was at times (except for the first 4 months), I even asked her if she had a problem with being loved. I said to her why can't you accept being loved?
Is it because of your bad exes you've told me about?
Never did get a real answer.

[neverloveagain]

https://youtu.be/Oe3PZv0MS7o

[Infern0]

All borderlines are narcissistic to a degree. Part of the disorder is the presence of the narcissistic shell which is why its so hard to treat.

I get tired of the over saturation of npd info and lack of BPD info, its highly possible "covert narcissism" is the npd communities name for BPD.

[Moselle]

Neverlove,

That is the most informative piece of video I have ever seen on narcissism. Someone who openly admits to being one.

My goodness, I think I have been barking up the wrong tree so to speak. Looking at this, my ex is likely 80% covert narcissist and 20 % Borderline. And she is so good at being covert!

I have been studying the BPD thinkng that was dominant but in general BPD seems sad. She is not, she is happily abusive and full of energy to execute her stuff.

I have been fighting her for three years, and I have been losing. If I continue down this path I will lose my children completely because she will defend her false self against being uncovered, with no holds barred, including criminal activity. She has threatened my life at one stage and frighteningly I belive her.

The new information I have now is that fighting will never work with a narcissist. My new mantra is:

“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” George Bernhard Shaw.

[Moselle]

I get tired of the over saturation of npd info and lack of BPD info, its highly possible "covert narcissism" is the npd communities name for BPD.

Inferno, that's an interesting theory. Perhaps you are right. They would have to be the highly functioning BPD. Interestingly, until now I have been overly focussed on BPD and done absolutely no reserach on NPD. Where are the best resources for it? I don't want to wade through the nonsense. Is there a bpdfamily equivalent to for NPD?

My ex diagnosed herself as BPD to me, and I fell for that bias. I believe now that her BPD is just a narcissistic tactic she employs to play victim when the situation presents itself.

I think its clear from the responses to this post, and the video, that there is frequently a link between N and B, but that it varies from Cluster B to Cluster B. The other possibility of course is the Sociopathic traits which may also play a role.

One thing though. To be highly functioning, she must have empathy. To mirror so completely, she must understand how the other is feeling/operating. Malignant N's dont have that. For example a recently inaugurated famous person , seems to have 0% ability to empathise.

I observed her for 4 hours as she snuggled with her new husband in the pews at court on monday. She mirrored his emotions, his smile. She looked at him intently when he spoke to her. When she saw that I was looking, she went into narcissitc overdrive. Lying all over him in the court, like it was her playground. Poor guy (used to be a close friend of mine) doesnt know what is coming. I'm afraid it won't end well for him.

What's more, is that I seem to have a narcissistic injury in a ddistion to codependence. Why else would I enter a prolonged fight with her.

[troisette]

My quietBPD ex had narcissistic traits (attention seeking, pompousness, etc) but his indicators of BPD are stronger. I believe co-morbidity is not uncommon.

I thought that the grandiosity of full-blown narcissism is a mask for a frail ego, hence the thin-skin and inability to receive negative comments that accompanies NPD.

Would be interested to read others comments on this.

Moselle: I used to be married to narcissist - the divorce negotiations were extraordinarily difficult due to NPD. During proceedings I was given professional advice. That was to flatter him, to seem to be agreeing with him. To understand that empathy was absent - therefore appealing to a moral compass a waste of time. That the most important thing for him was to maintain his false facade. That it is relatively easy to manipulate a narcissist in the short term but dangerous to do so in the longer term.