Starting this Journey

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello,

I found this message board while searching for "Welcome to Oz", I'm about 100 pages into Stop Walking on Eggshells and my mind has been blown wide open with how much my relationship mirrors that of someone living with a person with BPD.  I have my own issue with porn addiction and have been in recovery for 10+ years (ups and downs) and my spouse has always been able to use my addiction against me.  I have low self-esteem so I unknowingly fell further and further into her beratement over my problem.  The past 5 years I've sensed something was wrong.  There should be grace, foregiviness, and a desire to work on things.  Instead it's been in-house-separation for 2 years with her emotionally and verbally abusing me with my past mistakes.  I had a mental breakdown, fell into depression, and started floating suicidal thoughts.  Thankfully I've gotten help.  I'm on anti-depressants for 1.5 years, seeing a pyschiatrist, and working with a counselor.  Life for me individually has gotten much better.  Life with her is still bitter, distant, and painful. 

SWOE has helped me see that it's not just me, there's more to this story.  As I have prepped for a possible divorce and written out a relatinoship timeline I've seen that there's much more to this than I originally realized.  It's aligning so much with BPD and so many things are clicking into place.  My spouse has, since the start of our relationship, constantly asked me "do you love me?" and accused me of trying to cheat on her, talk to others, or even sleep with others, all without any evidence other than my porn addiction (I promise the extent of my addiction is nothing illegal and is only about medicating through anonymity via pixels on the screen).  I've felt so dumbfounded and confused, as if I'm trying to fight for who I am against my partner, rather than with her.

Muddying the waters is we've got 2 kids now, 7 and 5, and my spouse doesn't work.  We don't have enough money for a divorce, I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.  I don't know whether to stay or go, but staying has felt hopeless for a long time now.  She's told me numerous times that if I want to divorce, go ahead.  But that she's staying b/c she doesn't want to lose time w/our kids, doesn't want to get a full time job, and doesn't want to lose the house.  I feel no hope for her wanting to "work on us"

I don't know what to do, but I know I need to find community and speak up for myself.  Looking forward to dialogue here to help me figure things out.

[One-Eared Wonder]

Hello,

I found this message board while searching for "Welcome to Oz", I'm about 100 pages into Stop Walking on Eggshells and my mind has been blown wide open with how much my relationship mirrors that of someone living with a person with BPD.  I have my own issue with porn addiction and have been in recovery for 10+ years (ups and downs) and my spouse has always been able to use my addiction against me.  I have low self-esteem so I unknowingly fell further and further into her beratement over my problem.  The past 5 years I've sensed something was wrong.  There should be grace, foregiviness, and a desire to work on things.  Instead it's been in-house-separation for 2 years with her emotionally and verbally abusing me with my past mistakes.  I had a mental breakdown, fell into depression, and started floating suicidal thoughts.  Thankfully I've gotten help.  I'm on anti-depressants for 1.5 years, seeing a pyschiatrist, and working with a counselor.  Life for me individually has gotten much better.  Life with her is still bitter, distant, and painful. 

SWOE has helped me see that it's not just me, there's more to this story.  As I have prepped for a possible divorce and written out a relatinoship timeline I've seen that there's much more to this than I originally realized.  It's aligning so much with BPD and so many things are clicking into place.  My spouse has, since the start of our relationship, constantly asked me "do you love me?" and accused me of trying to cheat on her, talk to others, or even sleep with others, all without any evidence other than my porn addiction (I promise the extent of my addiction is nothing illegal and is only about medicating through anonymity via pixels on the screen).  I've felt so dumbfounded and confused, as if I'm trying to fight for who I am against my partner, rather than with her.

Muddying the waters is we've got 2 kids now, 7 and 5, and my spouse doesn't work.  We don't have enough money for a divorce, I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.  I don't know whether to stay or go, but staying has felt hopeless for a long time now.  She's told me numerous times that if I want to divorce, go ahead.  But that she's staying b/c she doesn't want to lose time w/our kids, doesn't want to get a full time job, and doesn't want to lose the house.  I feel no hope for her wanting to "work on us"

I don't know what to do, but I know I need to find community and speak up for myself.  Looking forward to dialogue here to help me figure things out.

[ForeverDad]

You mentioned a possible divorce and a great resource that may will help you avoid many of the unexpected traps and pitfalls of our sort of protracted divorce is William Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder (updated 2021).

There is so much to add but where to start?  Our thoughts, suggestions and time-tested strategies are many.  Too many to list all at once.  Please browse other posts and you will find many insights and ideas that may fit your needs.  Feel free to continue posting and asking questions.

Often having children together means the divorce will be more complicated with custody and parenting schedule issues.  Now that the children are school age, it makes sense that your spouse should no longer continue as a Stay At Home Mom (SAHM).  In all legal stances and paperwork going forward, one theme is that she needs to find employment or a career, if at all possible.

And, of course, in the interim, no more children.

[ForeverDad]

I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.  I don't know whether to stay or go, but staying has felt hopeless for a long time now.  She's told me numerous times that if I want to divorce, go ahead.  But that she's staying b/c she doesn't want to lose time w/our kids, doesn't want to get a full time job, and doesn't want to lose the house.  I feel no hope for her wanting to "work on us".

Frankly, if she is unwilling to change, then she won't change.  Accept that.  You can't fix her.  Only she can choose to want to fix herself, typically that requires she start and apply meaningful therapy over years.

Maybe you're thinking that after a divorce the kids would be alone with her.  Well, you already "leave your kids alone with her" if you leave the residence to go off to work, shopping, etc.  The real question is whether you will strategize and seek as much parenting as possible during and after a divorce.  And that is from the very start, beginning with the court's temp order.  Reality check: Too frequently temp orders tend to morph into final decrees, so do your best to get the best (least bad) initial temp order from the very start.  This is not the time to try to be fair to her.  Courts won't give you credit for being overly fair, just don't be nasty.

Frankly, a house is a lesser concern.  Families, even in divorce, move all the time.  A house is not a home... Home is where you live.  If neither of you can maintain the house separately, then it must be sold and the equity, if any, split.  That's just the reality.

And no, despite what she insists and dictates, you are not required to be magnanimous and pay all her expenses.  Yes, there may be child support (if you don't get more than 50% scheduled parenting time) and short term spousal support or alimony for a couple years (so she can find employment if not already employed and get situated in post-divorce life) but that's about it.

[PeteWitsend]

...  My spouse has, since the start of our relationship, constantly asked me "do you love me?" and accused me of trying to cheat on her, talk to others, or even sleep with others, all without any evidence other than my porn addiction (I promise the extent of my addiction is nothing illegal and is only about medicating through anonymity via pixels on the screen).  I've felt so dumbfounded and confused, as if I'm trying to fight for who I am against my partner, rather than with her. ...

Careful with this.  What is "porn addiction?"  A lot of people look at porn; it's not really a big deal.  But if your wife is BPD, she doesn't really care what the issue is, only insofar as she can find something wrong with you to pin her own issues on, and make you the cause of them. 

If you feel you have an addiction, by all means get help for it.  But do not admit this to a pwBPD, because you will quickly find that it serves as a convenient excuse for them to make all sorts of unfair demands on you and of your time to "reassure them," and if she gets dysregulated, will not be discreet about it (she'll tell anyone in the moment, even your own kids).   Humiliating you will be the price you pay for non-compliance, no matter how trivial her demand was. 

I endured similar "interrogations" on a regular basis.  BPDxw would demand to know if I cheated on her, if I "liked anyone" at work, if I thought other women were pretty, if I looked at porn, etc. etc.  I was a faithful husband, and had never cheated on her, nor did I make efforts to, or flirt with other women, or anything like that.  Her claims were completely baseless.  But of course, it was not about me, the issue was her own insecurity, and her need to feel that she was the victim of something, because being in that dynamic was comforting to her.  Despite my demands that she stop this - especially in front of our daughter who was getting old enough to understand - she would justify her behavior by claiming that I needed to show her I loved her enough.  Imagine that?

In a normal situation, you share things with your spouse to build trust between you, and you can do this knowing they will maintain that trust, and would not use anything you say against you.  But this is not the dynamic when you're in a relationship with a pwBPD.  Normal rules don't apply.  I don't think you have to LIE to them, nor should you, but a full disclosure of your thoughts and actions is done at your own peril!  Anything you say CAN and WILL be used against you!  There will be no benefit to being honest.

... Muddying the waters is we've got 2 kids now, 7 and 5, and my spouse doesn't work.  We don't have enough money for a divorce, I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.  I don't know whether to stay or go, but staying has felt hopeless for a long time now.  She's told me numerous times that if I want to divorce, go ahead.  But that she's staying b/c she doesn't want to lose time w/our kids, doesn't want to get a full time job, and doesn't want to lose the house.  I feel no hope for her wanting to "work on us"

I don't know what to do, but I know I need to find community and speak up for myself.  Looking forward to dialogue here to help me figure things out.

It sounds to me like she's either sought advice online, or gotten legal advice from an actual attorney, and been told that if she doesn't work, she'll get child support and alimony and done the math and decided that sounds like a pretty good outcome to her.

And even if not, you should seek professional advice given that the topic of divorce has been broached, regardless of what your decision is.  You can pay a family law attorney for an hour consultation, and they can review your situation and estimate for you the absolutely worst case outcome, and also the likely outcome in the event of divorce.  When I say "outcome" I mean: custody schedule for the kids, property settlement (how you divide the house and $$$ on hand), and the likely cost of the divorce, with low, medium and high estimates.  That gives you a "baseline" to compare your situation to.  At some point, you may decide the cost of the divorce is worth the peace of mind you get from getting this toxic person out of your life.  And even if you can't get 100% custody (that's almost impossible anywhere, without proof that the non-custodial parent is physically abusive), you can give your kids a break from the BPD-behavior during the time they're with you. 

I did this when BPDxw started mentioning divorce as a possibility in our case.  I know my then-wife had gone and seen an attorney (she told me this) and was throwing out that if I left her, I'd get to see our daughter once a month, and she'd get all our money.  Nonsense!  I went to see an attorney myself, who laid out the likely outcome under state law and judicial guidelines.  I could see that even by default under state law, I'd end up with a pretty even split, I'd keep all the assets I had prior to marriage, and close to 40% parenting time, and there was nothing my wife could do about that.  That consultation was the best $$$ I ever spent.  And the result was pretty consistent with it. 

State laws vary greatly though, so you need to see an attorney where you live to get the lay of the land.  It might be worse. Where I live, alimony is not the norm, and only awarded in exceptional circumstances, such as when a divorced spouse is physically unable to work.