Trying to Steady for What’s Next

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I’m really struggling. Not for the now which is just bad because of my udxBPDH.  The after is not so bad but I have immense fear of unknown.  It is the through I am terrified of.

We have been married 30+ years, 4 kids. One at college, one in high school, other two have ft jobs, but one is still at home. My H has always been difficult, and mean on occasion, needs attention but as the years have progressed, he just seems to go more and more off the rails.

He is a legal professional which is some of the fear of the through (from married to divorced is what I call the through).

He makes a lot of money, I do not about 1/3 of what he does maybe a bit less.    He likes vacations a lot like 3-4 a year.  He buys nice cars (they look nicer than they are bc he buys used and gets a better deal but it has to be high end), etc.  Our bills are high bc he runs up CCs but never remembers and it’s hard to pay down. There are other large expenses and debts.  It causes me a great deal of stress.

I am responsible for the admin of paying the bills.  My check is always assigned some duty — right now college.  He often withholds his paycheck. He’ll hold it for the weekend and then come Monday or Tuesday it’s a pretend, hey did I forget?  Once or twice maybe, but multiple times in a row? 

He won’t talk about it. The last time I asked him via text about it so I could pay bills, he rage texted me back. We were dropping my son at college the next day and I just ignored and went to sleep and let all the bills be late.

There are some things going on at his office that have caused some delay so I understand but the expectation that I am responsible but not entitled to the information. He won’t discuss on the weekend but I told him that’s fine, but the weekend is when I have time and energy to pay bills so just lmk what’s going on so I can plan accordingly.

I’ve told him finances cause me stress.  Everything he knows he know weaponizes against me.

So about 10 days ago, he left some dishes in our family room. I don’t love it but I usually do a sweep in the morning to load the dishwasher of anything left before I run it. I didn’t this morning for some reason. TBH I might have been annoyed bc he leaves apple cores and fruit stickers and I find that particularly disrespectful that he feels someone else (me) should clean that up. But it may have been the day I had an appointment out of the house (I work from home) and just didn’t get to it.

Anyway, usually collapse after work so didn’t grab and he stays up hours later than I do so I expected (idk why) that the next morning he would have at least moved it to the kitchen (a lot of weaponized incompetence that can’t tell if dw is clean or dirty).  Instead it was still there but he had added to it.  I stuck to it and would not pick up. We would generally chat at night but just ignore the mess.  I want to avoid a fight and don’t want to play into his game. I simply do not have it in me anymore.

This goes on for over a week to the point he amassed something like 14 moldy glasses, 6 moldy coffee mugs, bowls with food remnants, open tin cans, garbage on the floor.

My oldest was coming for the weekend so I thought he would pick it up. Nope he instead tore apart my daughter’s room to replace the carpet and only half put things back and left the rest blocking the stairs and into the kitchen.

We spent the weekend walking around and with smelly dishes.

I feel absolutely absurd, childish and ridiculous typing this.

Come work week and he is off and I cleaned everything up til the house was pristine and bought some flowers for myself and split in a few rooms.

While I cleaned, I threw out some that was not salvageable, but the rest is thrown out as far as he knows bc I did not put any back.

He didn’t say a word last night but did not make a mess. 

He’s withholding his paycheck since last week and the general account is in arrears.  He used some money from my son’s college account to buy gas.  The check is dated last week and he will neither give to me (usual) or deposit.

It’s not even a joke as we have major expenses coming up and not even covering basics.

10 days of smelly dishes.  I videoed each day to show the increase and disgust really.

I feel completely off my rocker, it is distracting at work and I feel like I’m going to explode (physically implode really). If I didn’t still have kids to consider I would walk years ago.

He rages mostly at me and I’ve been afraid that if I wasn’t there, he would turn on kids. I’m so close but feel so uncertain and yet just can’t continue.

I don’t know my next step and I’m really afraid of taking it. Oh and like most BPD, I am completely isolated from family and have zero support system.

How can I get to through?  Why do I worry about his response and if he’ll be okay?  Especially when I don’t know if I will.

I’d like to get him to file first (I think he won’t and tries to push me so I’ll be the bad guy and the kids will blame me) but I’d like to really just offer a fair settlement and try to leverage his ego, his desire to keep our mess private, not open the firm books especially as they are tying to merge with another firm. But I’m afraid of walking away with nothing but a huge fight and a big bill.

I would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

[GreyRock]

I’m really struggling. Not for the now which is just bad because of my udxBPDH.  The after is not so bad but I have immense fear of unknown.  It is the through I am terrified of.

We have been married 30+ years, 4 kids. One at college, one in high school, other two have ft jobs, but one is still at home. My H has always been difficult, and mean on occasion, needs attention but as the years have progressed, he just seems to go more and more off the rails.

He is a legal professional which is some of the fear of the through (from married to divorced is what I call the through).

He makes a lot of money, I do not about 1/3 of what he does maybe a bit less.    He likes vacations a lot like 3-4 a year.  He buys nice cars (they look nicer than they are bc he buys used and gets a better deal but it has to be high end), etc.  Our bills are high bc he runs up CCs but never remembers and it’s hard to pay down. There are other large expenses and debts.  It causes me a great deal of stress.

I am responsible for the admin of paying the bills.  My check is always assigned some duty — right now college.  He often withholds his paycheck. He’ll hold it for the weekend and then come Monday or Tuesday it’s a pretend, hey did I forget?  Once or twice maybe, but multiple times in a row? 

He won’t talk about it. The last time I asked him via text about it so I could pay bills, he rage texted me back. We were dropping my son at college the next day and I just ignored and went to sleep and let all the bills be late.

There are some things going on at his office that have caused some delay so I understand but the expectation that I am responsible but not entitled to the information. He won’t discuss on the weekend but I told him that’s fine, but the weekend is when I have time and energy to pay bills so just lmk what’s going on so I can plan accordingly.

I’ve told him finances cause me stress.  Everything he knows he know weaponizes against me.

So about 10 days ago, he left some dishes in our family room. I don’t love it but I usually do a sweep in the morning to load the dishwasher of anything left before I run it. I didn’t this morning for some reason. TBH I might have been annoyed bc he leaves apple cores and fruit stickers and I find that particularly disrespectful that he feels someone else (me) should clean that up. But it may have been the day I had an appointment out of the house (I work from home) and just didn’t get to it.

Anyway, usually collapse after work so didn’t grab and he stays up hours later than I do so I expected (idk why) that the next morning he would have at least moved it to the kitchen (a lot of weaponized incompetence that can’t tell if dw is clean or dirty).  Instead it was still there but he had added to it.  I stuck to it and would not pick up. We would generally chat at night but just ignore the mess.  I want to avoid a fight and don’t want to play into his game. I simply do not have it in me anymore.

This goes on for over a week to the point he amassed something like 14 moldy glasses, 6 moldy coffee mugs, bowls with food remnants, open tin cans, garbage on the floor.

My oldest was coming for the weekend so I thought he would pick it up. Nope he instead tore apart my daughter’s room to replace the carpet and only half put things back and left the rest blocking the stairs and into the kitchen.

We spent the weekend walking around and with smelly dishes.

I feel absolutely absurd, childish and ridiculous typing this.

Come work week and he is off and I cleaned everything up til the house was pristine and bought some flowers for myself and split in a few rooms.

While I cleaned, I threw out some that was not salvageable, but the rest is thrown out as far as he knows bc I did not put any back.

He didn’t say a word last night but did not make a mess. 

He’s withholding his paycheck since last week and the general account is in arrears.  He used some money from my son’s college account to buy gas.  The check is dated last week and he will neither give to me (usual) or deposit.

It’s not even a joke as we have major expenses coming up and not even covering basics.

10 days of smelly dishes.  I videoed each day to show the increase and disgust really.

I feel completely off my rocker, it is distracting at work and I feel like I’m going to explode (physically implode really). If I didn’t still have kids to consider I would walk years ago.

He rages mostly at me and I’ve been afraid that if I wasn’t there, he would turn on kids. I’m so close but feel so uncertain and yet just can’t continue.

I don’t know my next step and I’m really afraid of taking it. Oh and like most BPD, I am completely isolated from family and have zero support system.

How can I get to through?  Why do I worry about his response and if he’ll be okay?  Especially when I don’t know if I will.

I’d like to get him to file first (I think he won’t and tries to push me so I’ll be the bad guy and the kids will blame me) but I’d like to really just offer a fair settlement and try to leverage his ego, his desire to keep our mess private, not open the firm books especially as they are tying to merge with another firm. But I’m afraid of walking away with nothing but a huge fight and a big bill.

I would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

[PeteWitsend]

...

I feel completely off my rocker, it is distracting at work and I feel like I’m going to explode (physically implode really). If I didn’t still have kids to consider I would walk years ago.

He rages mostly at me and I’ve been afraid that if I wasn’t there, he would turn on kids. I’m so close but feel so uncertain and yet just can’t continue.

I was in your shoes once upon a time.  It's awful.  It may also seem overwhelming to try to think of a way out, or even just a path forward, but if you start to break things down into smaller tasks, it gets easier. 

And just thinking and planning can provide mental relief from the situation.  I found that planning my way out, and doing small things helped me cope with the situation better and not get so emotionally wrapped up in the fights my now ex-wife would pick.

First of all, see if you can get into therapy.  Just having someone to talk to helps clear your head and make sense of the chaos.  BPDers love to muddy the waters around who is right, who said what, who is justified in being angry, who was wronged, etc. and if you're struggling to make sense of this stuff it can help to talk it out.

Second of all, see if you can scrape together $500 or so and visit an attorney for a private, confidential consultation on what the divorce process looks like and what the likely outcomes would be for you.  I did this, and I maintain it was the best money I ever spent. 

Once you have a legal roadmap of the path forward, you can identify other tasks and information you should start gathering.

Of course, you may also decide you don't want to leave, in which case that can also be helpful to underscore in your own mind that you need to find ways to co-exist with teh pwBPD better, instead of looking for a way out. 

I don’t know my next step and I’m really afraid of taking it. Oh and like most BPD, I am completely isolated from family and have zero support system.

How isolated are you?  Can you at least call and talk to them?  If you had to leave and go long distance, could you at least do that?

How can I get to through?  Why do I worry about his response and if he’ll be okay?  Especially when I don’t know if I will.

I’d like to get him to file first (I think he won’t and tries to push me so I’ll be the bad guy and the kids will blame me) but I’d like to really just offer a fair settlement and try to leverage his ego, his desire to keep our mess private, not open the firm books especially as they are tying to merge with another firm. But I’m afraid of walking away with nothing but a huge fight and a big bill.

I would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

Filing first often provides some legal advantages.  This is why you need to speak with an attorney.

Also, as an aside, his behavior with money is REALLY suspicious.  I think you also need to know what he's spending his money on and where it's going.  Speaking to an attorney could open the door to recommendations for a private investigator (although they are not cheap) who could collect evidence you could use in court. 

LASTLY: Keep all your preparations and notes on this confidential.  If you can have things sent to your work address, rather than home address, do that.  Or get a P.O. Box or something like that. 

[ForeverDad]

One reason many arriving here feel stuck in "staying" is that it is so hard to change "what is", that it might turn out to be unproductive or even disastrous.  Yet, with forethought, strategies and planning it doesn't have to be that way.  So the recommendation for you to quietly seek confidential and private legal advice is wise.

It is often mentioned that when repairing damaged relationships, sharing is important to restore trust.  But when a relationship has clearly failed, then it is time to be very cautious about what you share - your options and strategies - or else you risk being sabotaged.

William Eddy's inexpensive but excellent handbook Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder has helped many here protect themselves, not just from the discord and dysfunction but also from the many possible legal pitfalls when seeking a divorce from someone so uncooperative and obstructive.

As for that feeling of having no support... how supportive are your children?  While their childhoods may not have been normal ones, your influence over the years hopefully have had positive impacts.  For all you may know, they might wish for you to find a better outcome than what exists now.  And hopefully at least some or all of them could be your advocates.

Years ago, after my initial separation, I still didn't know what to do next.  Once I accepted my ex still disparaged me and didn't want to reconcile, I filed for divorce first.  I never regretted filing first.  It allowed me to proactively structure at least some of my post-marriage life.  Although every resource stated it legally didn't matter, I did feel better that I was the Plaintiff and not the Respondent.  For me that was a Boundary shaping action.  Though she posed as a victim - a very aggressive victim - I knew the reality and so did the System, eventually.

[GreyRock]

Thanks Pete. I have some idea, my udH is a lawyer who does some divorces over the years. Not his primary focus but he definitely does so I've heard stories.

He tells me all kinds of things — bc I work, he won’t have to pay alimony. I make around 80K and me makes 275-300K, but that includes health insurance which is around 50K, but considered income. The money seems near impossible to max out on until you consider self employment, vacations, just excess without regard. He brings a lot of money so he thinks he can spend a lot but the bills eat it up and we end up with a scary tax bill every year that he also refuses to talk about — at least without raging. It causes me so much anxiety walking on the edge all of the time.  Often he has plans how to take care of bills, but he doesn't tell me so i just get to worry about it. He’s told me he likes me to feel unstable.

I try to discuss but, of course, it doesn't go anywhere unless where he wants it to or he rages or goes in circles.

Weird things — constantly taking credit for things — things that aren't his, things that most people wouldn't mention. But it is always his idea, he said it, he did it but any mere inkling of ill effect and he either flips or blames someone else.

The latest with the dishes was so bizarre. I literally cant get my head around how he could think i am responsible to clean up after him.

We’re not really speaking right now — grey rocking, hence the name. But it’s exhausting and embarrassing.

But I’m really stuck in afraid to take the next step — a lot for the crazy i know is going to come.

I don't have family — a sister far away but were estranged bc of husband. He's in recent years stopped speaking with most of his family.

My job is so busy (unfairly so) that I barely have time during the day to eat or break, I’m exhausted in the evening bc I’m so stressed I don't sleep through the night. It’s a vicious cycle.

I know i need a therapist and to talk to a lawyer that’s not him.

I wish there was some way to fix but i don't know how and cant really survive with someone who not only thinks i need to clean up their dirty mess, but is willing to let me and our kids sit with the moldy mess around us.

Thank you again for your response.

[GreyRock]

Hi ForeverDad, thanks for the reply. I’ll check out the book.

I wish for my family intact and mutual respect with my H.  I know I can’t have it but it’s weird that sometimes I convince myself we can. Or that if just this or just that but it never lasts.

There are so many things over the years. A lot of weird behavior, or reaction and over the years the behaviors got weirder, more controlling and bigger. Saying awful things, rage texting, spiraling on topics and countless circular arguments. I didn't understand for years and in truth, it’s gotten worse, but now i have a better idea whats going on. But not how to manage (or the strength to manage it) or determine if i can take it any longer.

But I'm stick bc I'm just too afraid — if I'm honest much is financial and I’m getting older and if my job isn't secure (company has had a few rough years) I don’t have much skill to fall back on unlike him. That is most of my frozen. That and guilt around my kids.

I’m sure I'm not explaining it well.  It’s hard to put 30+ years of drama in a couple of posts. There is just so much.

Thank you again.

[GreyRock]

I’d really love some specific commentary on the 10-day dirty dish escapade and withholding paychecks (its not a second life, but either embarrassment from delay of funds or manipulation to make me unsettled, likely a combination).

Although I think mostly pointless, is there a way to navigate. Ive told him I worry about finances, prefer to work on bills on the weekend when I have time.  It may start with alignment but then seems to become the thing he messes with to get me feeling unsettled.

It’s not the only thing like this,  but maybe the easiest to explain.

[wantmorepeace]

Sorry you’re going through this. It makes sense that you’re stressed and afraid. AND you will be ok 

About the dishes: I really relate to not wanting to be a doormat. At the same time, you can’t out-childish a person with bpd. They’re the best at this and you can’t hope reason will win the day. I often make these mistakes. Just did yesterday in fact. I think it comes back to accepting that your options are what they are.

[GreyRock]

Thank you, Peace.

I say all of the time i only want peace. And that my kids are happy, healthy, and generally okay.

But I don’t need much. Peace is a luxury at this point.

For years he’s been overcautious, security obsessed.  We live in a nice town with very little crime but he is vigilant. When we went through a similar patch a few years ago, he started leaving and not locking the door when he left, sometimes just leaving it wide open. I would get out of the shower and it would be wide open. I read about an auto lock you can lock from your phone and installed that. It alerted when the door was opened and just tracks if it gets locked and whether manual or through the app. It is still on to this day and i lock it all the time (it’s on the deadbolt).  It irritated him at the time but we don't talk about it anymore.

In addition to the dishes — which may also seem childish on my side, but it didn't start intentional and when he saw my sweep missed it that day, he didn't decide he would walk it to the kitchen (at least — let alone put it in the dishwasher), he just added more, and more than usual.  At that point it was just an attack. It was never, hey she has a lot going on so let me just grab MY glass and bring it in. But then it was garbage and chewed on fruit pits and sticking stickers on other things (dishes, counters, hardwood floors).  All I was doing was giving him an adult time out for his childish behavior and maintaining self respect.

But back to “safety”, we have a lot of windows and one room is near floor to ceiling in 3 sides and where I spend most of my time and we do when he is home. He always opens the curtains. I open some but he does more. But then he either gets annoyed with the neighbors about something. Sometimes a comment and sometimes walking between rooms and commenting in something bugging him. BUT we eat at a table in that room and he kind of freaks out when we do that people can see us so he closes the curtains. Even during the day when I don't  think anyone really could. 

So now with the dishes when i didn't react, he started leaving the curtains wide open all night. I don't sleep well (stress) so get up and go to that room so it was his way of trying to make me unsettled. I close the curtains until the sun comes up and the open them again. Childish games.  I don't want to play but I am living it.

He came home at 2 yesterday, plopped in front of tv.  I work til 5 (at home) and then made dinner, ate with the kids. I don't invite him but make enough for him and leave for him. For the record, he doesn't need an invitation.

It was like 7-7:30 when i was finished with everything, he was watching crime stuff on tv (which i don't always mind watching but didn't feel up for more stress but also not really interested in spending time with him right now), so I headed to do a load of laundry and watch tv in bed. I got to bed 8 or 9 anyway.

He came to the bedroom and asked how long I planned to not talk to him.  I said something like, I'm tired and not really up for a long conversation. He said I was always tired (hello, work, stress). 

I’m not sure exactly how the conversation started, but basically it was that he thought I should clean up after him bc I do after the kids (he said everyone else). The kids sometimes leave their things in the kitchen. Mostly my son who is early teen. Their messes are not disrespectful (chewed on food, stickers stuck on things that must be peeled off).  If they have anything outside the kitchen, they bring it in and if they don’t, I ask them to (and then help them if they can’t figure out if the dw is clean or dirty). 

I told him I would respond if he let me speak (he cuts me off and talks over me a lot). He said he would but made it like 4 words and then jumped on top of what I was saying. Why didn't I clean up his stuff.  I said I am neither your mother nor your maid and you are capable of cleaning up. He said he isn't my father and yet he pays for everything, shops (meat from a local butcher) and does his laundry (for the last 5 years of over 30 from the last major meltdown — there are daily and weekly but these are much bigger). Then he asked what I did and I said I take care of his kids, the household.  I said his kids only bc they are his, too, and I was trying to make the point that this should mean something to him (it does to me when he helps the kids). I could see this was going to go around and around and I couldn't do this or any other circular conversations, I’m tired and then I put my headphones in. He yells i bought you those headphones, the kids aren't supposed to be mine (his) and storms out.

I watch tv for a while and then go to sleep. When i get up, the curtains are all wide open again. I close them til the sun comes up. He runs out the door this morning and slams the front door and takes off. I suspect he is going to visit our oldest but theres no money really in the account so he wont get far. But maybe far enough before he realizes. Idk.

I wasn’t expecting a relaxing weekend but was hoping for some peace.

I usually don't get pulled into games — usually it is strictly verbal assaults or rage texts with some crazy things. But by choosing to not engage in that, i instead get pulled into this behavior. Is there a normal-ish place to even exist?

Welcome views from above bc you cant always see clearly in the middle.

Also please forgive typos…I'm so used to autocorrect and it doesn't seem to exist here.  Ive tried to catch where i can but I’m sure I've missed a few!

Thanks for reading and in advance for any replies!

[ForeverDad]

I've been using MS Windows and I apparently have their dictionary included since it works on both Google Chrome and Mozilla FireFox.  FireFox also has that too as well as AutoCorrect in the optional extensions.