For members who participated in couples counseling...

[Skip]

I wanted to discuss and compare notes on couples counseling. How would you answer the following 10 questions.

1. What precipitated the need for couple’s therapy?

2. Who was the proponent for marital therapy (you, your partner)? Were both partners motivated or was one party resistant, reluctant, or ambivalent?

3. On what basis did you select a therapist? Did you communicate with them beforehand? Was the therapist a psychiatrist (MD), psychologist (PhD), family therapist (MFT), or other?  :)id they have a special skill (personality disorders, mood disorders, CBT, DBT, etc.)?

4. What did you hope therapy would accomplish? What do you think your hoped therapy would accomplish?

5. Was the process highly structured (objective, outlines, homework), moderately restructured, or not structured at all? You have a book written material to support therapy? Did the therapist direct the conversation and have a lot of control or was it more freeform with the therapist helping you over the rough spots?

6. Where all your sessions as a couple or did you have private sessions as well? Why? If not, did either partner have private discussions with the therapist? Why?

7. What was the counselors assessment of the problem? Did you ever mention any diagnosis for tendencies for either of you? What was the counselors advice to you? To her? Did the counselor teach you any skills? What? What was most helpful/least helpful?

8. How would you rate the counseling? It made matters:

• a lot worse
• worse
• it  neither helped or hurt
• better
• a lot better

9. How many sessions you had together and why did the therapy end? What is the status of your relation afterward (married, together, separated, etc.)?

10. If you had it to do over, what would you do different?

[roberto516]

1. We both felt we were arguing more and wanted to try it.

2. She actually suggested it. But I called and set up the appointments.

3. Her therapist gave her a couples therapist as a reference. I believe he was a psychologist.

4. I hoped it would teach us how to communicate better. As I've said, when I tried to talk calmly she'd get defensive and I'd get angry or she'd fear abandonment and I'd console her. Honestly, I wanted to have her learn how to communicate and me learn how to communicate better.

5. We did 3 sessions. First two were highly unstructured. 3rd was a genogram session. We'd let it all out and he'd bring up observations.

6.all sessions together.

7.counselor thought, and I agreed, that we had lost sight of why we loved each other in the first place. This is a great question because in hindsight her answer always was "we used to do things together all the time." But it was her black and white thinking. She coukdnt look at the good, because she was focused on the bad.

Again it was only 3 sessions but I remember the genogram and how he told me I had a close knit family and didn't need much support. But if I felt you were close I expected support and assistance. He told her that er family was more fractured and thay she was probably running around trying to find her role in the family because she never had a place (in hindsight that's the persistent theory for BPD. Lack of identity/attention as a child).

8. Honestly. After sessions it made it worse for me. She seemed to do better after each one. I think it made it worse because during the first 2 sessions I'd pose a question and when he asked her for thoughts she'd say "I don't know". So it was basically me being codependent expressing my anger and then how could I, not her, learn to be more calm with her.

9. 3 sessions. It ended because we got into a week "break" maybe. Man she loved breaks. And when we got together again we were heading out for the session and she said "I don't want to go. It's too much work" and that was it. I never pushed her on it again.

10. I would have stuck with it. Maybe have learned how to have communicated and used more empathy. But this was the whole story of my relationship. Going to therapy would have made her vulnerable. With her therapist she's safe and is the victim. So I tried to put more effort in than her. We always said we'd do therapy before we ended it. I guess she thought her 3 sessions with me was actually trying. Just reinforces the picture for me. The need for control/fear of vulnerability, etc etc. Can't do anything about it now. We are broken up and I am painted black

[hope2000]

1. Couple counselling initially was to improve our communication.

2. I initiated  counselling because I wanted to enrich our marriage

3. I was motivated and thinking back I didn't think my ex knew why we attended couple counselling.

4. The therapist was general because I didn't know her behaviour was BPD

5. The therapist wanted us to use communication words such as I feel... .when you do this. It was not structured and we just went back and practiced. My ex treated it as a game and she didn't want to practice it at home because it was too much for her.

6 there was no private session but my ex went through weekly therapy for about 3 years towards the end of our marriage.

7. We went through a number of couple counsellors. From hindsight they were in effective because they didn't have experience with BPD

8. All a lot worse. The. The couple counsellors were not to be blamed because if was us who chose them.

9 the session was no more than 3 and after that my ex Wanted to leave and then she came back to the marriage. My ex went into counselling manipulated what she wanted but never willing to compromise.

10 if I knew BPD the way I do now I would seek the service of a clinical psychologist with BPD experiences. However, in the end, I don't think the best couple counsellor could have helped us. Unless the BPD is addressed first we can't deal with the relationship.

[roberto516]

  hope2000

Outside of the fact that my ex suggested the counseling our stories look exactly the same. That lack of motivation. I can't speak for you, but I feel like my ex thought if she went with me there'd be a magic cure, and we'd be perfect every day after that. Then when she realized sessions were gonna consist of communication and feelings she didn't want to do it. I understand though. They have the emotional feelings of a 5 year old. Would a 5 year old go to therapy, and be wholly initiated into it? We would have probably done better with couples therapy that was also play therapy  

[Sunfl0wer]

1.  I began to notice a pattern of us having conflict without resolutions, therefore the same themes of conflict kept repeating.  While I wanted to do couples counseling, I was not sure if he would go so I choose a therapist that I could see solo in case he refused the couples counseling.  I began seeing her for a few sessions, then invited him to "help me" sort things out.  He would not have been receptive another way.

2.  My SO was ok as long as he felt it was something he was "doing FOR" me.  He wanted me to remain the identified patient.

3.  I selected our first therapist because a friend highly recommended her.  I did visit with her for a few session before inviting SO for couples counseling.  I do not recall her skill set/credentials.  Likely had a masters in something.

Our second therapist was chosen after a big blow up that had potential to break us up.  He was a referral from a therapist we both highly respected.  I choose him because I felt he was a better match for my SO,  T being both male and of the same cultural background.  Neither were PhD, however, I cannot recall their exact credentials.  I believe both had a masters degree of some sort.  (The right fit was more a priority for compliance on my SO part)

4.  I hoped therapy would helps up stop repeating the same conflicts in different forms.  I hoped we could work better together as partners, define some things, and get a third party prospective to help us resolve conflict without being in conflict during the process.

I think my SO simply attended to "help me" with whatever was ailing me.

5.  With both therapists, things were not highly structured.  There was homework given by both as more of a suggestion.  It was followed up on if someone recalled to bring it up.  Conversation was often collaborative, not just therapist directed, but not completely client directed either.

6.   With our first therapist, it was all couples counseling, then she acted as my solo therapist at times he was busy with work or such, or I felt quite stressed.  (My son was going through some debilitating physical stuff, my SO did not need to be there for me to discuss this in such detail.)

The second therapist, we initially started together, remained in couples sessions.  However, for his initial interviews, he saw us together, then saw each individually, then decided on resuming us together the year, with maybe alternating individual sessions every month to check in.  ... until we got to a point where there was physical DV, then we were separated until the DV could be resolved.  When DV was resolved after a couple months and T wanted to resume with couples counseling, SO wanted a break up.

7.   There was no diagnosis focus for either of the therapists.  Me nor my SO was interested in diagnosis, we really were there treating symptoms, not needing a label.  While my SO has NPD/BPD/DPD traits, it is nothing in the realm of diagnosable dysfunction.  I entered into both therapies admitting I have PTSD.  However, the first T disagreed with me and felt I was not symptomatic enough to retain the label.  I disagree with her premise that I needed to be in active anxious symptoms, because I still felt I was wired via trauma that was not unwired completely, hence IMO, I still have PTSD, just maybe "dormant."  (Considering I am now diagnosed with OSDD, I'd say I was accurate :P )

In regards to skills taught... .  I am sure there were more than I can recall.  First therapist did things like telling SO to focus on being kind to my son, or me to focus on changing the way I spoke some things.  This helped to a degree.

Second therapist taught better skills, but hard to recall because they were things I internalized.  I learned a great deal about becoming an observer to our conflict vs reactive, this was huge and worked fantastically, even if during the break up.  He said his role with SO, was to "lend him his ego." Which I took to mean that SO was struggling with having a sense of self from which to make valid/consistent decisions from so was helping him to think for himself and how to develop that vs doing things for the sake of the outcome of who was going to be pleased with him.  Idk how far they got.

8. How would you rate the counseling? It made matters:
Therapist #1:
I feel was mediocre in her skills at best.  She helped things in the short term.  My partner felt accountable and motivated to be "the good one" so he made short term behavior changes.  For me, she helped short term stuff like helping me feel grounded and validated.

Therapist #2:  Was better than mediocre.  He looked more at patterns, saw more bigger picture stuff and taught more bigger picture stuff, but was fair+ in skill set.  Again, things improved as a couple more in the short term.  SO was motivated again to look good to this therapist and he made huge changes within that first month of us seeing the therapist.  (That way I could never report his "bad behavior"  Or he could say "that was in the past". I do believe he was somewhat helpful for us both in a long term way in our individual sessions.  I also feel he did an excellent job addressing (physical) DV properly and teaching us both how to navigate what should be unacceptable in a relationship. (Even though he fell short on emotional abuse constantly

9.  I would guess, that each therapist we saw maybe a bit less than a year per therapist. 

Therapy ended with #1 when my SO felt she took preference to me and was siding with me in assigning homework to him to do stuff to be mindful and considerate of me and my son. 

Therapist #2 ended because my SO was in huge conflict with his daughter who was homicidal to us and I set the boundary to minimize my exposure to her, so he wanted to exit the relationship if I did not flex on my boundaries.

We are no longer together, nor communicate at all.  I do feel therapist #2 helped us separate in safest way we could.  I worry without his support in seeing us both individually during the breakup that things could have got dangerous in some way.  (Things were very close to being unsafe)

10.   The first Therapist was a poor fit, and not so great skilled.  I see how her biased was picked up by my SO and I wish she had been more professional than to allow this.

Unfortunately, the second therapist seemed biased to my SO, however, I felt this almost "needed" to keep him going.  Unfortunately, it caused me to feel less valued as when I brought up issues, I feel therapist had trouble sorting out reality and would question my behavior of trying to escape danger, and misunderstood me as being escalating, when in fact I was attempting escape and get safe in some way.  (My SO was at one point blocking me from leaving, IMO, this is blatant abuse, not to be taken lightly, or to admonish me to validate a raging person.)  I told him I wished he took the emotional abuse more seriously, and allowed us discuss how to handle it more.  Yet I feel he avoided this, and almost assigned it my role to soothe SO.  IMO, had he helped address it as a self soothing issue for SO, (vs a failure of me to validate) then the physical would not have occurred.

Ironically, it appears that after break up the therapist did address this as I could tell SO was desperately jogging every day and every time he had a fit of anger, he put his energy into exercising more and more.  I know this was the advice of T.

-I did very much like the second therapists scheduling of couples sessions mixed with alternating solos.

I now see a therapist skilled in trauma, and realize neither of the therapists I have seen in my past were skilled in trauma.  I wish we had seen someone very skilled in trauma because both of us had past trauma that was replaying in the dynamics and re triggering the other and this was not anywhere near addressed the way it is now for me... .it was mostly treated as something "to get rid of" between us vs something to look at and sort out so it feels more resolved vs subliminated... .hence it continued to pop up in various forms.

[flourdust]

1. What precipitated the need for couple’s therapy?

The first time was around 2008. I had been laid off from my job and stress was increasing in the house. She suggested (demanded?) couples therapy to work on our "communication." I wasn't aware of BPD at the time, and her symptoms were only starting to ramp up. It was a mixed experience. We read Gottman's Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work,  we were generally civil during the counseling sessions and even went out for date night dinners afterwards. During this time, I learned she was cheating on me and confronted her. I also got a job offer out of state, and we decided to take it as a reset button.

The second time was a few years ago. The BPD was overwhelming (and formally diagnosed) at this point, and she was about to start DBT. The counseling was again her demand that I needed to work on my communication. Sessions were much less constructive, usually her ranting, sometimes her storming out or throwing things at me.

2. Who was the proponent for marital therapy (you, your partner)? Were both partners motivated or was one party resistant, reluctant, or ambivalent?

She was the proponent; I was reluctant but went along. The second go-round, I was pretty confident that her BPD was driving the problems, so I didn't see couples therapy as useful.

3. On what basis did you select a therapist? Did you communicate with them beforehand? Was the therapist a psychiatrist (MD), psychologist (PhD), family therapist (MFT), or other?  :)id they have a special skill (personality disorders, mood disorders, CBT, DBT, etc.)?

I don't remember the first therapist's background, but she was a very rational and thoughtful person, which appealed to me. I selected the second one, who was a psychologist with a PhD. He had a background in TBI, which was why I wanted him.

4. What did you hope therapy would accomplish? What do you think your hoped therapy would accomplish?

For the first one, I was agreeable to trying to improve our relationship. For the second one, I could clearly see that the problems were her increasing mental instability. She was about to start DBT, which I was hopeful would lead to improvements. I agreed to the couples counseling (which my wife demanded frequently over the years, usually impulsively whenever there was a fight or dysregulation) primarily to stall for time while she was in treatment.

5. Was the process highly structured (objective, outlines, homework), moderately restructured, or not structured at all? You have a book written material to support therapy? Did the therapist direct the conversation and have a lot of control or was it more freeform with the therapist helping you over the rough spots?

The therapist used the ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) model, which he explained to us. He did try to impose some structure, looking for "quick wins" by getting us to agree to simple changes in how we communicated to try out between sessions. Those generally didn't work. The actual sessions tended to wander off the rails, as my wife was extremely verbose and would take the floor to rant and complain. I generally stayed pretty quiet because I knew that if I started raising my own issues, she would fight back.

6. Where all your sessions as a couple or did you have private sessions as well? Why? If not, did either partner have private discussions with the therapist? Why?

At one point, I did try to assert a little more control, and I asked for private sessions. The therapist also asked me to record one of our arguments and for both of us to listen to the recording before the private sessions. During our one private session, the therapist was pretty blunt about my wife's problems and thought divorce was the most likely solution.

7. What was the counselors assessment of the problem? Did you ever mention any diagnosis for tendencies for either of you? What was the counselors advice to you? To her? Did the counselor teach you any skills? What? What was most helpful/least helpful?

He was aware of the BPD. He told us that we needed more intensive counseling (as in multiple times/week), though he didn't really suggest that this would lead to improvement. I think he was just trying to get rid of us as clients, as our sessions were unproductive and unpleasant. What was helpful to me was seeing my wife fight with the counselor on occasion, when he would call her out for putting words in my mouth or evading responsibility. That was helpful in the sense that it provided some third-party confirmation that I wasn't making up a self-serving narrative.

8. How would you rate the counseling? It made matters:

• it  neither helped or hurt

9. How many sessions you had together and why did the therapy end? What is the status of your relation afterward (married, together, separated, etc.)?

We had sessions roughly biweekly for about a year. It ended shortly after we separated, with the counselor strongly reiterating that he couldn't help us and we needed something more intensive. I researched some of his recommendations and came across discernment counseling, a very focused short-term program for helping couples determine if their path forward is divorce or reconciliation. We went to a discernment counselor for one session who quickly concluded after interviewing us together and separately that we wanted divorce.

10. If you had it to do over, what would you do different?

Found a counselor who specialized in personality disorders? Be more assertive and directive in the sessions? I honestly don't know if it would have made any difference. I suspect not.

[Pretty Woman]

1. What precipitated the need for couple’s therapy?
My ex wanted back after leaving me for someone else. She admitted she had "issues" and actually was the one to suggest counseling for her which then by the advisement of her therapist became "couples" sessions.

2. Who was the proponent for marital therapy (you, your partner)? Were both partners motivated or was one party resistant, reluctant, or ambivalent?
I was reluctant because I had started dating someone else and felt that's what spurred this. It was more about breaking up a relationship than working on one... .IMO.

3. On what basis did you select a therapist? Did you communicate with them beforehand? Was the therapist a psychiatrist (MD), psychologist (PhD), family therapist (MFT), or other?  :)id they have a special skill (personality disorders, mood disorders, CBT, DBT, etc.)?
It was a woman who specialized in therapy with Gay couples. I am not sure what her exact qualifications were or if she even knew what DBT was. My ex selected her.

4. What did you hope therapy would accomplish? What do you think your hoped therapy would accomplish?
I had hoped it would curb my ex's anger issues where we could communicate normally.

5. Was the process highly structured (objective, outlines, homework), moderately restructured, or not structured at all? You have a book written material to support therapy? Did the therapist direct the conversation and have a lot of control or was it more freeform with the therapist helping you over the rough spots?
It was not structured at all. I went with her to one session where she got extremely angry and I excused myself because I was not going to back down on my opinion.

6. Where all your sessions as a couple or did you have private sessions as well? Why? If not, did either partner have private discussions with the therapist? Why?
I don't even know if my ex really went to regular sessions with this person or was cheating on me. On the date of her last "session" she told me her therapist told her we were really just friends and it wasn't healthy for us to be together. Personally, I think she had stopped seeing this person and therapy was actually "date night" with her new amore.

7. What was the counselors assessment of the problem? Did you ever mention any diagnosis for tendencies for either of you? What was the counselors advice to you? To her? Did the counselor teach you any skills? What? What was most helpful/least helpful?
The counselor wasn't that great. I don't think she had any productive feedback. When my ex exploded in front of her she looked shocked but had no advise on how to handle the outbursts. I feel it was beyond her wheelhouse as far as training.

8. How would you rate the counseling? It made matters:

•it  neither helped or hurt


9. How many sessions you had together and why did the therapy end? What is the status of your relation afterward (married, together, separated, etc.)?
We had one session together and she saw this person for about 5mos... .I think that's where she was. She replaced me with someone else eventually and they have been together two years.

10. If you had it to do over, what would you do different?
Run as soon as I saw the signs a person is not behaving "normal". I can tell now and trust my judgement.

 
  
 

[jonmnemonic]

1. What precipitated the need for couple’s therapy?
Constant conflict, separation/reconciliation. Mostly because my wife thought I needed to change.

2. Who was the proponent for marital therapy (you, your partner)? Were both partners motivated or was one party resistant, reluctant, or ambivalent?
My wife.  I was sometimes hopeful when my wife would say things like "we" need help but it always ended up being about me and what I need to change or do for her.  I ended up hating anything to do with marriage counseling, therapy, seminars, etc.

3. On what basis did you select a therapist? Did you communicate with them beforehand? Was the therapist a psychiatrist (MD), psychologist (PhD), family therapist (MFT), or other?  :)id they have a special skill (personality disorders, mood disorders, CBT, DBT, etc.)?
Christian counselor or pastor.

4. What did you hope therapy would accomplish? What do you think your hoped therapy would accomplish?
I hoped we could learn to communicate better and develop cooperative problem solving skills.  She wanted me to change so her life would be better.

5. Was the process highly structured (objective, outlines, homework), moderately restructured, or not structured at all? You have a book written material to support therapy? Did the therapist direct the conversation and have a lot of control or was it more freeform with the therapist helping you over the rough spots?
We saw so many different counselors.  Some were highly structured and some weren't.  Some started out being highly structured and realized that wasn't going anywhere and had to deal with "immediate" issues first.

6. Where all your sessions as a couple or did you have private sessions as well? Why? If not, did either partner have private discussions with the therapist? Why?
We mostly met with the counselors together but did meet with them individually as well.  My wife felt the need to let the counselor know what was really going on privately and then I ended up having a one on one session to discuss what my wife had told the counselor.

7. What was the counselors assessment of the problem? Did you ever mention any diagnosis for tendencies for either of you? What was the counselors advice to you? To her? Did the counselor teach you any skills? What? What was most helpful/least helpful?
My wife was very skilled at keeping the focus on me and what she perceived were my shortcomings or the issues in the marriage.  When the focus would go onto her she would either quickly move it back to me or let the crocodile tears start flowing to elicit sympathy from the counselor.  Most of the counselors basically told me to be more loving and told her to quit blame shifting, being self focused, and have reasonable expectations.  The timeout was the best skill I learned (take a break from conflict for 30 minutes).  I did mention to numerous counselors that a psychologist I had seen individually had suggested my wife had BPD/NPD.  None of them wanted to address that.  The least helpful was when the counselor told her to specifically do something (focus on meeting your husbands needs this week, don't point out any failures this week) my wife would immediately after the session tell me "you need to focus on my needs" and "our marriage will only get better if I let you know what you're doing wrong".  She would turn what she was told onto me as if it had been said to me or do the opposite of what she was told.  The counselor holding her accountable was like grasping the wind.

8. How would you rate the counseling? It made matters:

• a lot worse
• worse
• it  neither helped or hurt
• better
• a lot better

Useless and frustrating

9. How many sessions you had together and why did the therapy end? What is the status of your relation afterward (married, together, separated, etc.)?
Countless.  The last time my wife bailed on the sessions without telling either me or the counselor and then proceeded to force our separation.  We're now getting divorced.


10. If you had it to do over, what would you do different?
I wouldn't waste my time on counseling.  I would establish and stick to boundaries regardless of the consequences.  Basically treat her as if she was normal and we were in a normal marriage.  Not allow her to manipulate and control me with her craziness.  In the end that's what I did and she split me black.  So be prepared to lose her by doing what I knew to be right.
[/quote]

[hopealways]

1. What precipitated the need for couple’s therapy?
She was acting crazy and I had no clue why.

2. Who was the proponent for marital therapy (you, your partner)? Were both partners motivated or was one party resistant, reluctant, or ambivalent?
I was the proponent and she was reluctant.

3. On what basis did you select a therapist? Did you communicate with them beforehand? Was the therapist a psychiatrist (MD), psychologist (PhD), family therapist (MFT), or other?  Did they have a special skill (personality disorders, mood disorders, CBT, DBT, etc.)?
We tried 2 psychologists who had no idea what they were doing, then found an amazing MD Psychiatrist who knew EXACTLY what was up.

4. What did you hope therapy would accomplish? What do you think your hoped therapy would accomplish?
I wanted her to gain insight and start the journey to healing. She stopped after the second session. I continued to this day!

5. Was the process highly structured (objective, outlines, homework), moderately restructured, or not structured at all? You have a book written material to support therapy? Did the therapist direct the conversation and have a lot of control or was it more freeform with the therapist helping you over the rough spots?
Moderately structured.

6. Where all your sessions as a couple or did you have private sessions as well? Why? If not, did either partner have private discussions with the therapist? Why?
There were only 2 sessions. The lack of commitment to therapy by the BPD is well documented in this forum.

7. What was the counselors assessment of the problem? Did you ever mention any diagnosis for tendencies for either of you? What was the counselors advice to you? To her? Did the counselor teach you any skills? What? What was most helpful/least helpful?
That she probably has BPD but that diagnosing her is not necessary, healing her inner wounds is.

8. How would you rate the counseling? It made matters:
a lot worse
worse
it  neither helped or hurt
better
a lot better
Well if she stayed I believe it would make it better.

9. How many sessions you had together and why did the therapy end? What is the status of your relation afterward (married, together, separated, etc.)?
2 because she claimed she didn't like the Psychiatrist.

10. If you had it to do over, what would you do different?
I would have run at the first red flag.