Hoping for advice, has anyone gone through this?

[thatconfusedgirl]

Hi friends,

I have never posted in an online community so please keep that in mind.  I will try to organize my thoughts as well as I can.  Also, I don't know the "lingo" or acronyms.

My husband and I have been married for 15 years.  We married and had 3 beautiful children.  :)uring that time, he had never been anything but complimentary to me.  My oldest is also profoundly autistic, which causes many "issues" like a lack of privacy (therapists or caregivers in our home during almost all waking hours).
We had intimacy issues according to him, but I always chalked it up to him having a higher libido than I did.  Basically, he ALWAYS wanted to get it on, but I felt "unsafe" or uneasy at times.  I don't know how to put my finger on what it was that bothered me.  There was one time I found him masturbating to pornography directly after having sex with me.  Obviously this bothered me because, ew.

After a while, I started “looking the other way” when he masturbated.  Part of me thought it was just easier this way.  He was almost obsessed with vitamins and herbal supplements to “make it bigger” or “last longer”.  
We have been through a few counselors.  One of them showed us both BPD diagnostics, and attempted to help us work through our issues by acknowledging the elephant in the room.  My husband says I manipulated her into saying that.

I told him to find another one and I would go.  He chose a male because he “would understand the sex aspect” more than a woman.  Apparently I manipulated him too.

As we approached our 13th anniversary, I found something on his phone.  I had retrieved it from my child with autism as he was recording himself spinning in circles (cute lil buddy!).  When I closed the video camera, an email popped up from a clearly made up name with the subject line “I love you too”.  I opened it, chaos ensued.  It was our 20 year old caregiver for our autistic child. My husband was 37 at this time.  She was in the house when I found that one email (the others had all been deleted and removed from the “trash”.  I calmly asked her to leave, she started crying.  She said she was sorry.  I walked into our bedroom where my husband was taking a nap, told him I already knew what was going on, he claimed innocence, until I told him that I fired the caregiver.  I asked him to stay and work on our marriage, or continue packing.  He continued packing.  I saw a message he sent to his best friend a few days later at our youngest child’s birthday party:  “I’m ready to throw her (me) away and go get the caregiver”. That week, he flew off the handle and acted like a crazy person in front of family and friends.  Switching between calling me a ___, and telling me he loved me, crying, carrying on to the point where police were called by a neighbor (the kids were asleep).

I begged him to go to counseling. I told him to find a counselor this time, and I would go.  He found a female specializing in sex.  This therapist was amazing.  She called me out on some stuff, and him as well.  She also asked him a series of questions, which led down the path of diagnosing himself with BPD. (although to this day he claims he only has BPD tendencies when he is with me).  Unfortunately,  he had been communicating with the caregiver the first couple of months.  She felt bad and started to send me everything he was sending her.  I also found out he had been driving by her house and nearly stalking this girl (thanks google location).  I continued with individual counseling for a while when he decided he did not want to go any more.

A few months later, we were still not living in the same house, and an elderly family member was having a birthday party at a casino.  She called and asked me to please be there.  Knowing this was not a place for my kids, I spoke with my husband, and he agreed to stay at my/our house and watch the kids.  The first day of the trip, I was bombarded with texts:  “go screw someone and just get it over with”.  “It’s over, so I genuinely want you to enjoy your trip” “I’ll get the papers ready so we can sign them when you get home”.  When I responded with “no, I’m not here for that”, I got more responses telling me to basically get laid.  As it turns out, I’m not hideous.  After a couple of drinks, I was hit on.  I ended up ultimately hanging out with a group of new friends (after my elderly family member had gone to bed). I was very drunk and ended up kissing this guy.  It was odd.  I felt like I was cheating, but my husband at this point had told me he was done, to screw someone else, and I would have divorce papers awaiting me when I returned home.  As it turns out, he said that “to test me” and now I was a slut.  

After we had been separated for 18 months, I had spinal surgery (thanks to my child with autism pulling and twisting hard enough to rupture a disc).  I asked my husband if he could help with his children while I was recovering.  He obliged, but kept getting in bed with me and trying to snuggle.  I wasn’t exactly warm and fuzzy to the idea.  He ends up starting to date a woman who he bowls with (at this point it begins to be almost every weekday).  I find out and am not excited that he is dating.  I find it inappropriate since he is seemingly still attempting to work on things with me.  I find myself falling for him. (WHY?).  Here’s where one of my serious screw-up’s happens.  I begin to become intimate with him.  Call it desperation, call it being a dummy.  Of course, he’s saying things like “I love you so much”, “I want to be with you”, tells me he wants to work things out for us, for our family, for our kids.  But when my husband is not directly in my physical presence, it’s like a light switch.  He stops responding to calls and texts.  After a few weeks of this, I am emotionally drained and exhausted.  On our anniversary, the kids and I brought him hot chocolate (it was cold and he was working outside).  That evening, I got a sitter, and waited for him to call.  Nothing. No contact, no response.  The next day he said he had been stuck somewhere unable to get a signal.  I forgave him.  Then I installed a GPS on his truck.  Since he continuously ghosted me, I wanted to see if he was really working.  He wasn’t. He was carrying on with us both.  I told him I knew, he said he would end it.  Instead, he told her I was stalking her.  She files a “no contact” order against me.
 
Then one day he packs a bag, and says she has made reservations and he “didn’t want her to waste her money, she loves me”.  He left.  When he comes back he packs up his belongings and moves in with her.  At this point it has been about 6 weeks of dating while he was living with his wife and kids. I tried to file for divorce.  I went to an attorney, and arranged to get the papers to him.  One thing after the other: sick kid, forgotten checkbook, ice storm.  
One day I call him and he tells me he has been fired for poor work performance.  I tell him (because I have no self-esteem?) to move back in with his family and we could figure it out.  He does.  The other woman drops him off, tells him to file for divorce and she will drop the charges against me.  He doesn’t.

First month back and things are going great. The first thing he does is register my fingerprint on his phone.  I take a picture one day (his phone was closer) and discover questionable porn.  Questionable as it was YOUNG.  I told him it was unacceptable, and never to look at that again.  He confesses it was just different, and he wouldn’t do it again.  About 1 month later, I find a thumb drive: same thing.  I confront him, destroy it.  Tell him NEVER AGAIN.  Fast forward about a year.  I install a keylogger because my kids keep pulling up youtube when I am not home, and they just aren’t old enough to have free reign.  Well, I’ll be darned if I don’t find the same stuff under his login… except worse.  I took him out to dinner, and told him I love him and want to support him, but I am unable to support this behavior.  He says it is better if he just moves away.  The next day, he acts as if nothing happened.  Today, I asked him what his plans were (via text).  He says he still feels he should go.  I tell him I want him to get intense help.  He says leaving is better than being branded as a pedo, and he is going to go away because now I am treating him like he has HIV.  That intimacy has always been lacking and that’s what “put him here”.

I know if I do “nothing”, he will also do nothing, and that is not OK with me.  Especially considering the content of what he was looking at. It went from “18”, to younger, and younger engaged in an act. He claims someone sent him a link in a chatroom, but I don’t know if I trust that. He has told me in the last few days (since I took him to dinner), that he would kill himself if it weren’t for the kids, move across the country, tell the kids on his day off (those just passed with not a word), would get therapy, that staying with me isn’t a healthy choice for him, and that he loves me.

As I write this I feel like I have only written the bad parts of him.  He is kind, loving, doting, a great father.  He has never been physically abusive.  Always told me I was beautiful, too good for him.

I guess I don’t really know what I am asking.  After reading this through it is clear that if only that last paragraph were true, that is enough.  However, I don’t know how to facilitate this conversation with him.  Clearly I enable his behavior.  I always want to save him from himself, if that makes sense.
 
Thank you for reading.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Suki64]

Hello thatconfusedgirl! Welcome to the forum!

This sounds like a very long and difficult experience, I'm so sorry for what you've been going through. A few of your experiences remind me of my own, you are not alone! I am currently separated from my BPD partner that was continuously unfaithful and sexually promiscuous during the high and low points of our relationship. I know how exhausting this can be, it sounds like you are a very strong individual.

Have you still been going to counseling? Are you looking for a way to pursue this relationship, or looking for a way to end it?

The first thing I did when I joined this forum is search and read through the workshops that are posted here. It really helped ground my thoughts. We are here for you!

[thatconfusedgirl]

suki64,

I guess I am not sure what to do honestly.  If I were to tell him to leave, I am fearful for what the reaction may be.  We have been to counseling so many times it's crazy. 

[vortex of confusion]

   

I am usually on the detaching forum. I read your post and wanted to respond. Please, for the protection of your kids, leave him now. For the protection of your kids, you need to set a firm boundary and not let him back in the house unless or until he gets some serious help.

I don't want to be mean or harsh. You and your kids are in danger if he is looking at questionable stuff and you know about it. I sought out a counselor and told her some of the stuff ex had been doing. She reported me to CPS for negligent supervision because I left my kids with their father. We were investigated and the case was closed. Ex was a sex addict and was going to meetings. One of the things that came up was the type of porn he looked at and the women he was seeking out. His counselor (that he had only seen a few times) and his sponsor were able to vouch for the fact that he was only interested in older women and the kids were not in danger.

Have you done much reading about sex addiction? The masturbation and porn and courting other women sounds very much like some of the stuff I experienced with ex. I was looking up information on sex addiction when I originally found this site. Addiction alone did not account for ex's behavior so I was doing some digging and came across this site. All addictions are bad. However, the spouse of a sex addict tends to face an uphill battle because it isn't something that you can really talk about openly. If a woman says that she is married to an alcoholic, there is a much different response than to say that he is a sex addict. And then, there is the tendency to blame it on the woman because she isn't putting out enough or isn't doing something right. My ex claimed to be a sex addict yet blamed me because I wanted it too much. If that was the case, then why was he pleasuring himself, looking at porn, or seeking other women? None of it made any sense at all.

I kicked ex out after we had been married for almost 18 years and had 4 kids together. I know it is scary and I know how difficult it is to make such a huge decision. I also know how difficult it is to think about the prospect of raising so many kids on your own. In my experience, things became easier after he left because I was no long worrying about what he was or wasn't doing. I was only raising 4 kids instead of 4 kids and a grown man child.

It is ultimately your decision. However, you need to be aware of what staying might entail. He isn't likely to change at all. His porn use will likely escalate. If he is looking at stuff that is questionable with regard to age, he will get caught. There are all sorts of task forces that go out there looking for people that download and view that stuff. That isn't a scare tactic. That is real. When I kicked ex out, he chose to live with guy from his 12 step group that had done prison time for looking at and possessing inappropriate stuff. While ex was living with the guy, the police raided the guys house because he had been accessing that stuff again. Ex wasn't charged with anything but he was homeless. He wanted to sleep here and I told him no. He played up the fact that he had to sleep in the parking lot of a local store because I wouldn't even let him sleep in his van in the driveway. It felt horrible to do that to him. However, I could not put myself or my children in danger because I had no idea what kind of stuff he was or wasn't doing.

I also know the fear of how he might react if you tell him to leave. Whenever I would get serious with ex and try to hold him accountable or mention leaving, he would pull the self harm bit. At some point, I stopped caring if he hurt himself. What he does is not my responsibility. He quit saying that sort of stuff when I told him stuff like, "If you are going to hurt yourself, then I need to call 911. You need help." Any time he has even hinted at it, I ask him if I need to contact the police. He doesn't do it any more.

Counseling only helps if he wants it to help. Ex would go to his 12 step meetings and a few counseling appointments and then get frustrated with me when I didn't believe that he had changed. It was the whole, "I am doing x, y, and z like you wanted. What is your problem now?" He wasn't doing it because he wanted help or wanted to change. He was doing it because that is what I said he should do. For the longest time, he didn't think he had a problem at all.

Are you afraid that he will hurt you? There are places that you can go to get help if you want out but are afraid for your own safety.

Your husband can be all of those good things that you mentioned while still having those bad things too. I kept hoping that I could find a way to get the good all the time. For me, I couldn't radically accept that I had to take the good with the bad and stay in the relationship with ex. For my own sanity, I had to leave. I still see a lot of good things in my ex. I try not to think about them though because that makes it too easy to get sucked back in. When I realized the extent of what ex had done and was likely to do moving forward, there was no way I could stay. 

   

Hang in there! There  are a lot of people here that can relate to your story and offer words of wisdom or support.

[thatconfusedgirl]

I don't want to be mean or harsh. You and your kids are in danger if he is looking at questionable stuff and you know about it. I sought out a counselor and told her some of the stuff ex had been doing. She reported me to CPS for negligent supervision because I left my kids with their father. We were investigated and the case was closed. Ex was a sex addict and was going to meetings. One of the things that came up was the type of porn he looked at and the women he was seeking out. His counselor (that he had only seen a few times) and his sponsor were able to vouch for the fact that he was only interested in older women and the kids were not in danger.

Can you tell me what happened?  To be honest I don't think he would ever do anything to harm our children, but I also never thought he would look at this stuff.  Later he told me that the most recent "look" was too much for him.  However, he also continued to look at similar things.  So as a mother, I am obviously concerned.  Could I be held liable for not turning him in?

As someone who loves him, I am worried he might consider suicide because of the shame.  I read a bit about splitting.  I feel like this happens every day since I "found" his recent web history.  Is this normal?  can I be overvalued, and then devalued several times a day? 

Another thing I would like to know is what made me unable to open up sexually to him prior to this incident?  Like in general, I just didn't feel like I could be completely vulnerable.

[vortex of confusion]

Can you tell me what happened?  To be honest I don't think he would ever do anything to harm our children, but I also never thought he would look at this stuff. 

It didn't matter that I didn't think ex would harm the children. If you told a reasonable person about what was going on, what would they think? If your best friend told you a story similar to your own, what would you advise her to do?

I was reported because ex wouldn't watch the kids so I could go to the grocery store or do healthy things. He would watch them and send me out to have "lunch" with "friends". In essence, the allegations were that I was leaving my kids in the care of a hypersexual male with anger issues. When it was put like that, I was sick at my stomach. The thing that made me the maddest is that he is their father. He was not some random dude. He wasn't charged with anything. I was the one charged with negligent supervision.

Later he told me that the most recent "look" was too much for him.  However, he also continued to look at similar things.  So as a mother, I am obviously concerned.  Could I be held liable for not turning him in?

Ex told me a lot of what he thought I wanted to hear. Yes, you could be held liable for not turning him in. If you knew that he was looking at that stuff and did nothing about it and continued to leave him in the care of your children, you could be held liable. Nothing that my ex did was illegal. It was immoral and awful but not illegal. That was something that played in my favor.

As someone who loves him, I am worried he might consider suicide because of the shame. 

It is his shame, not yours. I worried about that a lot too. If he can't live with himself because of the choices that he has made, that is on him, not you. It is amazing that once I started coming out of the fog and quit letting him manipulate me, his threats and innuendos about that seemed to disappear. He is manipulating you. He is playing on your good heart and your caring nature. As hard as it is to do, you have to stop caring so much about him. Start caring more about you and your kids.

I read a bit about splitting.  I feel like this happens every day since I "found" his recent web history.  Is this normal?  can I be overvalued, and then devalued several times a day? 

Yes, you can be devalued, overvalued, and undervalued in the same day. Heck, it would sometimes happen in the course of a single conversation where one minute he would go on about how much he loved me and the next minute would be telling me about how some other woman floated his boat. He would call me a b***h one minute and then apologize profusely and tell me that he didn't mean it and that I am so great and wonderful, blah, blah, blah. I stayed confused because I was listening to his words. His actions were consistent. His actions consistently said that he did not value me or this family. That was a hard pill to swallow and he would argue that he loved us so much and we meant the world to him. If we meant so much to him, he wouldn't have done the things that he did.

Another thing I would like to know is what made me unable to open up sexually to him prior to this incident?  Like in general, I just didn't feel like I could be completely vulnerable.

Only you can answer that question. Do you have a history of sexual abuse? What is your history? Also, I know that there were things that ex did that made it very difficult for me to feel safe with him sexually. One was that I knew he looked at porn and pleasured himself. Sometimes, he would do that instead of being with me. I struggled with feeling like he didn't really want to be with me. I felt a lot of rejection because he chose porn and self pleasure instead of being with me. There was also the issue of him being a very selfish lover. I would try to open up with him and it would usually lead to him getting upset. For example, I could tell him that something hurt and could he move a little or something and then he would get a bit huffy. I learned not to say anything or give any direction. I learned that his pleasure was more important than mine. How could I possibly be vulnerable with somebody when I knew that it would be over before it was even started? Also, there was just a gut feeling that I had that seemed to interfere with being able to relax into things. Of course, he put it off on me and said that I was impossible to please and wanted it too much. Imagine my surprise when I was with a man after ex and had zero problems. A big factor there is that I felt physically and emotionally safe with that man. He would listen to me. If I showed any discomfort, he would stop and adjust and make sure that I was okay. And, when it was all said and done, that guy didn't jump up when things were finished and go clean himself as though I was something dirty that he had to get off of him. There are so many little nuances that can contribute to being unable to feel vulnerable and safe with somebody sexually. If this person is devaluaing you and treating you like crap outside of the bedroom, why in the world would you feel safe enough to be vulnerable with him sexually?

[KateCat]

Greetings, thatconfusedgirl.

I'm sorry you are dealing with a situation that is difficult in so many ways. 

You don't need more stress than you already have, but I wanted to second an important concern that vortex of confusion has raised: The stuff on your computer.

In a class on computer search and seizure that I attended, the attorney-instructor had us read a case that described the means used by the FBI when raiding a family home and seizing a computer on which the father had stored images of child pornography. Terrifying. It was like a swat operation. The father was arrested upon arrival at the airport; the mother was simultaneously interrogated in the home by law enforcement and the minor children were kept at school, away from the home, until evidence was processed.

What to do? I'm not sure. Maybe keep both your husband and his stuff completely outside your living space until you can get professional guidance? I'm behind the times technologically and don't even have a smart phone, but are you saying that he has images on his phone and that your thumb print functions as a password to access data on that phone? This sounds like a complication you don't need. Can you remove all traces of "you" from his devices?

No need to panic, as you have done nothing wrong and would eventually be exonerated in any case, but a need to take action to protect yourself and your kids. The big positive here is that you have discovered this in time. I think I would try to repeat that thought as a mantra if I found myself in a similar position.

[vortex of confusion]

In a class on computer search and seizure that I attended, the attorney-instructor had us read a case that described the means used by the FBI when raiding a family home and seizing a computer on which the father had stored images of child pornography. Terrifying. It was like a swat operation. The father was arrested upon arrival at the airport; the mother was simultaneously interrogated in the home by law enforcement and the minor children were kept at school, away from the home, until evidence was processed.

This is exactly what happened when ex's room mate was arrested. The police came beating on the door at 6 am. They took ex into the back of a police car, still in his pajamas, and interrogated him. They went through his cell phone and his lap top with some kind of forensic computer scanner thing. They let him keep his phone and lap top because it came back clean. His room mate was arrested on the spot and all of his computers, phones, etc. were seized.

What to do? I'm not sure. Maybe keep both your husband and his stuff completely outside your living space until you can get professional guidance? I'm behind the times technologically and don't even have a smart phone, but are you saying that he has images on his phone and that your thumb print functions as a password to access data on that phone? This sounds like a complication you don't need. Can you remove all traces of "you" from his devices?

I second the idea of you removing all traces of you from his devices. Also, make sure that the kids are not using any of the same devices that he uses. One of the questions that was raised in my situation was whether or not ex was looking at stuff and leaving foot prints on the devices that the kids were using. Or, was he looking at it when they were around?

No need to panic, as you have done nothing wrong and would eventually be exonerated in any case, but a need to take action to protect yourself and your kids.

Our case was closed and everything was fine. However, the stress of having strangers come in our house and question us was very traumatic for me and the kids. If I had known then what I know now, I don't think I would have let him stay as long as I did. It was really, really difficult to explain why I didn't think ex was a danger to the kids. I found myself in a position where I had to defend him and highlight all of his positives. It felt so horrible to be in a position to take up for him because I had been protecting him for years. It is a really uncomfortable and traumatic situation.






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